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Trump Becomes First-Ever President With Mug Shot; Trump Fundraising Off Arrest, Mug Shot After Booking; Powell Warns Inflation Still Too High, Warns Of New Rate Hikes. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 25, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Surrendered, Books and released. So now, what? We'll tell you what is next for the former president and his 18 co-defendants now that all of them have surrendered at the Fulton County Jail. Meanwhile, Donald Trump is making the most or attempting to, of his arrest, trying to fundraise off of his mug shot. We're going to have all the details ahead.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Also ahead. Those mortgage rates at a 22- year-high and they may now -- may not be dropping anytime soon. As inflation remains high, Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell says even more interest rate hikes are on the wall. We will explain the impact of that just ahead, and how it plays into this Jekyll and Hyde economy. We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SCIUTTO: From the 45th president to inmate P-01135809. Last night, the world saw America's first-ever presidential mug shot after Donald Trump surrendered on RICO charges as they're known in Georgia, part of a sweeping indictment against 19 people for attempting to overturn the 2020 election in Georgia. The surrenders are now done.

The legal updates are just beginning. The latest co-defendant tied to the fake electoral scheme says she was acting at Trump's direction. And she is not the first one to make that argument in court.

CNN's Jessica Schneider. She's covering the legal threads. Nick Valencia is outside the Fulton County -- Fulton County jail where the former president surrendered there.

Jessica, first to you. A defendant pointing the finger at Trump saying in effect, he delivered the orders, I followed them. She's the third I believe to do this. Tell us the significance.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this could be just part of the cascade that we're seeing in these legal filings that keep coming in. So, this one from Cathy Latham. She was one of those fake electors who prosecutors say signed the paperwork claiming Trump was the winner of Georgia 2021 when of course he wasn't. And so, now she's charged as part of this broad plot to steal the 2020 election. But in her filing today, she's asking for this case to be moved to federal court. And she's saying it should be moved to federal court because she was just following the orders of then-President Trump. So, she put it this way in her filing, saying.

In performing the duties of a presidential elector, Mrs. Latham was acting to assist Congress in its count and announcement of electoral votes for president and vice president of the United States. Mrs. Latham was furthermore acting to assist the president and was following the advice of the president's legal counsel for the purpose of preserving the challenge to the election results.

So, Cathy Latham, she's now joining at least four other defendants who say they want their cases moved out of county court to federal court because they say they were acting in some official capacity. Of course, we've seen this with Mark Meadows. He said it was because he was Trump's chief of staff. Jeffrey Clark saying it's because he was an official at the Justice Department.

But now, we're seeing this fake elect or accused fake elect or Cathy Latham, and she's making this even broader argument that she was acting under the former president's direction, Jim. So, trying to broaden out this argument, and it's possible that other defendants may follow their lead.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SCHNEIDER: But either way, you know, this is adding to the cascade of legal filings that we're seeing, as we see these you know, 18 plus defendants jockeying for how they're going to proceed in this case --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SCHNEIDER: That the DA right now says she wants to bring it to trial as soon as you know, mid to late October. So, there's going to be a lot that we're going to see in the coming weeks and months here, Jim.

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SCIUTTO: Yes. And it would seem to substantiate the DA's charge against Trump that he had this plan that he was telling other folks to carry out for him. October trial state -- date set for one of the defendants, Kenneth Chesebro, I should say. But he had requested a speedy trial. So, if the other defendants are not doing so, does this affect -- well, Trump among them is it affect the timeline for his protect -- his trial?

SCHNEIDER: Yes. I mean, you know, Fani Willis had initially said she wanted to try all 19 of these defendants, including the former president together, but now we're seeing this fracturing of defendants with Kenneth Chesebro saying, look, I want it quick. I want it under the Speedy Trial Act. He's probably going to get that October starting trial date, but it's likely that we could see all sorts of trial dates, and they likely won't be as quickly as October.

And then, of course, we've got all these other legal hearings, also trial start dates. I mean, right now on the calendar, we're seeing that the New York Attorney General's trial is slated to start in early October, then you've got maybe the Georgia trial in late October, and then beginning at you know January 2nd, potentially as early as next year, another cascade of trials. So, if the special counsel gets his way, he'll start on January 2nd. But of course, the hearing to decide perhaps the trial start date in that case, in the election subversion case is on Monday.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SCHNEIDER: Judge Tanya Chutkan could actually you know, decide to side with the special counsel, make it in the early part of next year, whereas Trump's team is saying we want it not until 2026.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SCHNEIDER: There is a lot playing out, Jim, in the next few weeks here.

SCIUTTO: Yes, a lot of lawyers don't think that 2026 date is realistic.

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Nick, outside the courthouse there, now all 19 have done their legal duty and surrendered?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That's right, Jim. And it was down to the wire for the last two co-defendants who essentially surrendered at the 11th hour. Earlier today, it was Trevian Kutti who is the Kanye West link publicist. She worked for him at one time, as well as the artist R. Kelly. She's from Chicago.

And according to prosecutors here, she is alleged of driving down from her Chicago home to come down here to intimidate Fulton County Election worker, Ruby Freeman. And according to District Attorney Fani Willis, Kutti allegedly told Freeman that she was a loose end that needed to be tidied up. Now, after Kuttis's surrender about an hour before the noon deadline that was set by Willis for today for all co- defendants to turn themselves in, we saw Illinois-based Pastor Stephen Lee surrender to authorities. And Lee is accused of doing the same thing. Driving down from Illinois to knock on the door of Ruby Freeman.

Freeman actually called the police and there's a video of that encounter. After Lee surrendered and was released, his attorney came out here to speak to reporters. And during those comments, he says not only does Lee not personally know the former president, but he also claims that his client came down here only to knock on doors.

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DAVID SHESTOKAS, ATTORNEY FOR TRUMP CO-DEFENDANT STEPHEN LEE: Yes. You know, I guess I've seen that happen with some Jehovah's Witnesses and people from Latter Day Saints. And this is a -- this is a pastor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he come down here to proselytize, you're saying?

SHESTOKAS: Yes. You don't know -- now you're asking about some particular specifics.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you brought up Jehovah's Witness. You said people come and knock on doors all the time. The intention matters.

SHESTOKAS: (INAUDIBLE) -- knocking down on doors all the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, he came and knocked on the door having nothing to do with the subversion of the election here?

SHESTOKAS: Absolutely, not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: So, a glimpse there into the possible defense of Pastor Stephen Lee. Also overnight, former DOJ official Jeffrey Clark, he turned himself in. He's charged as well in this RICO indictment as well as making false statements. Now, as Jessica was reporting, Jim, we look ahead to Monday to the former chief of staff of the former president, Mark Meadows as he has his federal court hearing to try to get his case moved from Georgia to a federal courthouse -- from a state courthouse to a federal courthouse in hopes of getting these charges dismissed. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Well, knocking on a door to spread a religion is one thing. Intimidating election workers, well at least that's the allegation, is another. Nick Valencia, Jessica Schneider, thank you so much. Brianna.

KEILAR: He is the first former U.S. president of course to pose for a mug shot. And less than two hours later, he became the first presidential candidate to use a mug shot for political gain, breaking his silence on X, formerly known as Twitter and seemingly coining a new campaign slogan, never surrender.

CNN's Alayna Treene joining us now from New Jersey near Trump's Bedminster Golf Resort on this. Alayna, what else is Trump saying about his arrest?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, Brianna, the former president, you're hearing kind of the full range of his rhetoric here. You are hearing him be defiant and use that bravado, both in his public interviews but as well as on social media trying to monetize off of his surrender as well as that mug shot that was taken. But he's also privately discussing how he's frustrated by this. And he did say in an interview that he thought this was a terrible experience. Let's listen to what he had to say.

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(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Terrible experience. I came in, I was treated very nicely, but it is what it is. I took a mug shot, which I never heard the words mug shot that wasn't -- they didn't teach me that at the Wharton School of Finance. And I have to go through a process. It's election interference.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TREENE: Brianna, now, of course, you are hearing Donald Trump use the same rhetoric that we've come to expect when characterizing the charges that he is facing. He's calling an election interference. He's continued to attack the Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis. But he is also admitting that he thought this was a terrible experience and some of what he is feeling behind the scenes.

Now, just to go back to the mug shot. I want to share some reporting that I have on that. I know that Donald Trump's team had discussed what they wanted him to look like in that mug shot prior to him going to the jail and taking it.

They had discussions about how he should appear. And ultimately, the former president decided that he wanted to appear "defiant." That is what some of his advisers told me, rather than smile, or it's like some of his other co-defendants in their mug shots and give off the impression that you know he takes this very seriously.

But again, he is very frustrated about this. He has had to go through this process four times. He had never had to take a mug shot before. But he isn't enjoying having to come forward and go through these types of experiences. And I think you can see that. He's starting to have some of that leak out in his public media interviews, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes. It's hard to imagine anyone would enjoy this. And clearly, he is not. Alayna Treene, thank you so much. I do want to bring in Anna Bower now. She is the Fulton County correspondent for Lawfare, with us again, always keeping her eye on things there.

Co-defendant Kenneth Chesebro, who is the architect of this fake electors plan, so key to what we're seeing happening in Fulton County, Anna. He is set to go to trial very quickly. We're talking October 23. This is just eight weeks from now. How do you see that impacting other trials with defense lawyers and other trials being able, maybe to get a preview of the case?

ANNA BOWER, FULTON COUNTY CORRESPONDENT, LAWFARE: Right. So, you have to keep in mind that Fani Willis said that she wanted to try all 19 of these co-defendants together. Typically, when you have co-defendants who are all listed in the same indictment, that is how it would go. Unless any of the co-defendants are able to do something called severance, that's where they're separated, you know, from the case or from other co-defendants.

And so, we know from filings with Trump after Chesebro made this motion for speedy trial and Judge McAfee set the date for October 23, Trump has of course said that he does not want to go to trial that soon. I am expecting the other co-defendants don't want to go to trial that soon either. And usually, judges you know, whenever a defense attorney or defendant says we're not going to be ready for trial that -- at that expedited rate, they're going -- the judge is going to take that very seriously. And if these co-defendants or Trump make motions to sever, then I think that the judge is very likely to grant that. So, what we could end up seeing is that Chesebro goes to trial in October but then the rest of these defendants maybe together maybe some of them separate, go much later on. And what that means is that that's a strategic advantage for them because they're going to be able to watch how Chesebro's trial plays out and kind of what Fani Willis's trial strategy will be, and how she will try the case. So, that's an advantage for them and may very well be helpful for the defense.

KEILAR: It's going to be a bit of a practice round for them to watch there. You have five co-defendants now who want to move their trials to federal court. Who do you think among them has the best chance and what could this mean for the former presently -- president legally?

BOWER: Right. So, I think that the person who out the gate, made the first notice of removal was Mark Meadows. He seems to have the strongest argument here. The others, especially those in the last few days from the fake electors who are making attempts to remove, it's a little bit more attenuated. But Meadows is able to make the argument under this removal statute, which, you know, allows officials or former federal officials who are prosecuted for state crimes that is related to their official duties as federal officials, they're able to move their case to federal court, as long as they can prove that they were acting within the scope of their federal duties.

[14:15:11]

And Mark Meadows made an argument, you know, that the things he's alleged to have done, setting up meetings, making phone calls, those are things that were within his scope of duties as the Chief of Staff to the President. And so, that is kind of the strongest argument that we've seen thus far. I still think that it is likely to fail, though. The -- you know, the bar for removal is very low.

And as you said, we have this crucial hearing coming up on Monday, a federal judge is going to hear argument and evidence on Meadows' motion to remove. There have been four witnesses who have been called including Brad Raffensperger, the former secretary -- or the Secretary of State -- the current Secretary of State of Georgia. And of course, Raffensperger was on that phone call in January 2021, where Trump urged him to find votes too -- for Trump to win the election.

So, we're going to probably hear testimony at that hearing and have a preview of Fani Willis's case against Meadows. So, it -- and it really could be a crucial hearing, because when the judge decides this issue on removal, even Meadows removing to federal court, could bring the whole gang with him. There's you know precedent where everyone is removed. So, it's really an important hearing.

KEILAR: Yes.

BOWER: And you'll see what happens.

KEILAR: Yes. We'll certainly be watching that very closely with you, Anna Bower, thank you so much. Always great to have you. Jim? SCIUTTO: While Trump is trying to raise money off his mug shot and surrender at the Fulton County Jail, his GOP opponents are raising campaign funds now following the debate. We're going to tell you how they're doing so far, just ahead.

And a mixed picture of the economy. There's low unemployment, solid stock market, strong economic growth, but still, signs of high debt and delinquencies. We're going to break it all down, next.

And later, a new trial finds that the weight loss drug, Wegovy, is helping patients with heart failure now. Those details just ahead. You are watching CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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KEILAR: All right, a bit of a roller coaster on Wall Street today. Markets are back in the upswing after initially dipping in the wake of this new warning from Fed Chair Jerome Powell.

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JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIR: Although inflation has moved down from its peak, a welcome development, it remains too high. We are prepared to raise rates further if appropriate and intend to hold policy at a restrictive level until we are confident that inflation is moving sustainably down toward our objective.

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KEILAR: So, Powell also said that the economy is growing faster than expected and Americans are still spending a lot which is good news and bad news because those trends do fuel inflation which is giving us this weird kind of mixed bag economy. But the good news here -- and there is good news, there's quite a bit of it here.

The jobless rate is near historic lows at 3.5 percent. GDP, which is the best measure of economic output is at 2.3 percent. That beats expectations. And then retail sales keep beating expectations too. On top of that, the markets are still trading near record highs.

But of course, there is some bad news. Credit card debt in America is just past one trillion dollars for the first time ever. Credit card delinquencies, they're still rising, hitting over 7 percent.

Now, mortgage rates now at a painful 7.77 percent. That is the highest rate that we've seen in 22 years. And Bank of America is reporting that there was a 36 percent jump in people taking hardship withdrawals from their 401Ks.

And then we have some things that fall somewhere in between the good and the bad. Inflation, it has fallen significantly. It's now at 3.2 percent from the peak of 9.1 percent last June. Powell wants it though, at two percent. The average cost of a gallon of regular gas. That is $3.83. That is down from a record high of $5.01 last June. But that's been creeping up over the past few weeks, you may have noticed. And wages do keep rising, which is great for workers.

It does though add to inflation and there have been several labor strikes that could be more, which helps workers secure better work conditions but often at a cost of different -- often at a cost which is disrupted services and supply chains. And then just moments ago, members of the United Auto Workers Union overwhelmingly approved possible strikes at GM, Ford, and Stellantis, which is the company behind Dodge, Ram, Jeep, and Chrysler. And that is putting a new wrinkle in this very mixed bag, Jim. That's going to deplete some of those inventories at dealerships.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

KEILAR: And make getting cars and leases and all the like costs more.

SCIUTTO: Well, they want better pay. Better benefits. We'll see how that shakes out. Brianna, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss is Matt Higgins. He is the CEO and co- founder of RSE Ventures. Good to have you on, Matt.

Listen. It's a complicated picture but the head headline numbers are very good on the unemployment rate, GDP growth, consumer spending, and of course, the stock market, which is driven by a lot of things. But also corporate earnings is quite high right now. Explain to folks at home, is this a strong economy?

MATT HIGGINS, CEO & CO-FOUNDER, RSE VENTURES: No. Actually, we are in a pandemic-fueled stimulus-fueled vortex where good news is bad news. And what the -- what the Fed is not saying, what the White House is not saying is the reality is in order to get inflation to have at two percent, unemployment is going to settle at around 5.5 percent. 5.5 percent will mean millions of jobs will be lost. And that is the bottom line. What the Fed reiterated today, most importantly is, two percent is our target, and we're sticking with it.

[14:25:08]

SCIUTTO: Is that the right target? Because as you know better than me, there's a lot that goes into that inflation pressure. It's a global issue now. Yes, some are driven by stimulus here, as you mentioned, but there are also supply chain issues. There's a reason European countries, countries in Asia have higher inflation as well. Is there an argument for the Fed to say, you know what, we don't need two percent today because the cost of two percent Inflation is millions of jobs?

HIGGINS: I'm actually so grateful that the Fed is sticking with it because I think it's a disaster. You're going to see political pressure, I bet fueled by the election to maybe move away from that two percent target because the consequences and the pain are very real. The reality is, this entire boom that we're dealing with at the moment is fueled by stimulus.

There's about $500 billion dollars left in bank accounts that -- from the stimulus here, that's going to be depleted by the end of the year. So, you have two headwinds that are going to hit the consumer at the same time. Stimulus money is gone, and you're going to have student loan payments kicked back in in December. And the reality is the consumer is 70 percent of the GDP. That's why we're not seeing the consequences of these rate hikes.

SCIUTTO: So, for folks watching at home who have personal financial decisions to make both on spending and savings and how much they save for retirement, etcetera, what is your advice to folks at home right now?

HIGGINS: My advice is to hunker down and conserve cash. You -- accept what I'm saying that the reality is unemployment is going to spike, that you're going to see a retrenchment, you're going to see corporations instituting more layoffs, a lot of the return to office policies are driven by the hope that they can achieve attrition through friction. But the -- but the reality is my advice is conserve cash and increase your credit capacity. And if I'm wrong, terrific. But I think I'm right.

SCIUTTO: Final question, some good news in your view. You believe that the AI revolution and there's been a lot of talk about the potential dangers here, and those are real, but you believe that could be an economic boon?

HIGGINS: I think the AI revolution is going to be the greatest wealth creator of our time. And here's why. It's going to fuel a whole new class of entrepreneurs, who before maybe didn't have the skills to compete, didn't have the money to launch the company, wouldn't be able to put together a business plan, but they have a great idea. AI is enabling an entire class of entrepreneurs to pursue their dreams.

And that's going to add 15 percent of GDP to the U.S. economy by 2030. But we still got to get through the reckoning. And the reckoning has not happened.

SCIUTTO: You know that's just what the robots would say, Matt Higgins, right? They would say this is what you want us to -- no, I get the argument. It's good. There are a lot --

HIGGINS: It was pulled directly from ChatGPT.

SCIUTTO: There you go. Exactly. Yes. Thanks so much. Good to talk to you. Let's keep up the conversation.

HIGGINS: All right. Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: Brianna.

KEILAR: Coming up. No, we're not to that point yet. We're not to that point yet in the news, right? OK. So, Republican presidential candidate Ron DeSantis is taking a swipe at Foxe's debate moderators. We're going to explain why and how big of a bump in fundraising he had.

And the extreme heat that we're seeing is turning one of the safest sports into a potentially dangerous one. How the PGA Tour is taking measures to help players and fans throughout the Tour Championship this weekend?

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