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Soon: Hearing On Meadows' Bid To Move GA Case To Federal Court; Hearing On Trial Date For Trump Federal Case; White Gunman Kills 3 Black People At Jacksonville, Fl Store. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 28, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:08]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: This hour, two key hearings for President Trump and his storm of legal challenges. One in Atlanta, Georgia and one in Washington, D.C. His lawyers actually arriving just moments ago to the D.C. courthouse. How these hearings might define the next phase of the cases against the former president.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN ANCHOR: And it was a deadly weekend of gun violence. Gunfire interrupted a high school football game sending players running and claiming the life of a teenager. Plus, shoppers killed in what police are calling a racially motivated shooting. And those are just two of several violent incidents over the weekend.

SANCHEZ: And Florida on alert this morning as a tropical storm that's expected to become a major hurricane churns toward the Sunshine State. Idalia is getting stronger and could make landfall Wednesday. We're tracking all the latest developments there. I'm Boris Sanchez with Rahel Solomon in for John, Kate and Sara and this is CNN News Central.

Happening right now, a stunning split screen of two American course where at any moment two separate judges are about to begin hearing arguments on two of Donald Trump's criminal cases. Each of them involved his alleged efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss. Today, the fight to find out when and where Trump's trials could be held.

In Atlanta, key evidence is going to be presented as Trump's former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows seeks to move his charges out of state court and into federal court. So could this set a precedent? Could Trump be next? And in Washington, D.C., four months away or a longer, years long delay? Will Trump's federal case fall smack dab in the middle of his campaign? We'll begin in D.C. this hour with CNN Zachary Cohen, who's live outside the courthouse for us. So Zach, how are both sides going to make their argument over when this trial should start?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, good morning, Boris. In just a few minutes, a judge is going to start hearing dueling arguments. On one side, you have Donald Trump's lawyers and on the other you have prosecutors working with special counsel Jack Smith, and at the center of today's hearing is timing. They're going to talk about when a trial for President Donald Trump -- former President Donald Trump would start. You know, Jack Smith and his team have argued they want a speedy trial. They want this to happen soon, as soon as early January of next year.

Now, if you compare that to what Donald Trump's lawyers are asking for is radically different. They want a trial to start in April of 2026. So a lot of daylight between those two sides. And a judge is going to have to make a call today, you know, which is she going to give Donald Trump more time to prepare. They argue there's so much evidence. The former president's team argues there's so much evidence in this case, they need years to really prepare and give their client a fair trial.

Now, on the flip side, Jack Smith's team says, they only need four to six weeks to present all the evidence that they have in this case. So we're going to see which side ultimately the judge lands on. But this case has already been weighed down in some controversy. The judge has warned Donald Trump that his status as a criminal defendant does take priority over his status as a presidential candidate. And obviously, the politics of this whole case will come into play as the timing is considered.

You know, if Donald Trump is -- the trial does start in January of next year and it takes four to six weeks to present that evidence, we put you smack dab in the middle of a Republican primary race, so a lot of factors at play here. But really timing at the center of the hearing today in D.C.

SANCHEZ: And obviously the big question, if it starts in the spring is what impact that could have on the campaign. Zachary Cohen live outside the courthouse in D.C., thanks so much.

A big day in court for the former president, Rahel.

SOLOMON: Absolutely. For many people in fact. Boris, thank you.

And let's go to Atlanta now, at least in terms of the case where Donald Trump is facing his first major test, in his Fulton County Georgia case. This as his former chief of staff, Mark Meadows, fights to get his case moved. CNN's Sara Murray standing by live outside the federal courthouse. Sara, so what are we expecting to see in this hearing today?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, sure. We're expecting to see sort of a mini trial, essentially, in Atlanta. This is a question of Mark Meadows and whether he can move his case from Fulton County Superior Court to federal court and also whether he can get the charges against him dismissed. But it's a broader look as well. But let's just dig into how today is going to play out.

This is an evidentiary hearing, which essentially means that it could take a little while and that we could potentially see witnesses called on one or both sides. We know that Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has already lined up for potential witnesses for her presentation as she prepares to argue that whatever Mark Meadows was doing around the 2020 election, had nothing to do with his roles as the former White House Chief of Staff. So she's called people like Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger who of course was the person Donald Trump called and pressured to find the votes needed to win the state of Georgia which he lost. [10:05:08]

Frances Watson, who is another former official in the Georgia Secretary of State's office, a person who heard from Mark Meadows and Donald Trump is also on the roster, as well as these two attorneys Kurt Hilbert and Alex Kaufman, who were also on the call between Donald Trump and Brad Raffensperger, then Mark Meadows was also on. Again, we're still waiting to see if Mark Meadows team is going to be calling any witnesses. But yes, it's sort of like a, you know, a mini trial playing out in this Atlanta courtroom today.

SOLOMON: Yes. And Sara, talk to us about the broader implications this could have for some of the other co-defendants.

MURRAY: Right, so we're going to be looking for a couple things. Day one, I mean, what is this tell us about Fani Willis's case more broadly, as well as the case that she is prepared to make against former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows. But we're also looking into what this means for where then this case is going to play out? Obviously, the district attorney has charged them in Fulton County Superior Court. Mark Meadows is trying to move to federal court.

So we're looking for any sign from either the district attorney or the judge that if Meadows is successful, does that mean everyone is going to federal court? Or does that mean he gets sort of severed off of this case, and the other defendants proceed in Georgia? So those are a couple of things we're going to be watching for today?

SOLOMON: Yes, certainly a lot to watch, which could have pretty huge implications. We'll wait and see. Sara Murray live for us there in Washington. Thank you, Sara. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Let's expand the conversation now with Patricia Murphy. She's a political reporter for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. And also with us federal and white collar criminal defense attorney, Caroline Polisi. Caroline, let's start with you. Mark Meadows essentially has to prove to a judge that he was doing everything he did all that conduct as an agent of the president. In other words, he did it as part of his job. How likely is that to succeed?

CAROLINE POLISI, LECTURER, COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL: Well, different legal scholars have weighed in on sort of opposite sides of the spectrum. He does have a colorable argument meaning, so the specific issue today is a pretty low bar for the removal statute. And that Meadows will have to show that he was acting under color of law. That's the words the statutes use, in other words, his official capacity as White House Chief of Staff.

Now, Fani Willis and her team have noted, quite rightly, really, that not only was this conduct, not part of his official duties as Chief of Staff, but actually she's arguing that it was prohibited conduct under a different statute, the Hatch Act, which prohibits federal officials of this nature from engaging in really partisan political activity. So that will be the specific issue here today, it is a bit of a bellwether hearing. And that will get a preview of some of the potential defenses and some of the, you know, evidence that Fani Willis and team has.

Brad Raffensperger, everybody will be, you know, waiting with bated breath to hear what he has to say about that infamous phone call. We've all heard about, you know, ad nauseam at this point, asking President Trump asking him to just find 11,780 votes. So it's a big deal today.

SANCHEZ: Absolutely. I do want to let our viewers know that the hearing in the Washington, D.C., federal courtroom has just started. So we're keeping an eye on that. But let's stick to the conversation about Fulton County because Patricia, as Caroline noted, this could set a precedent for other defendants in this case. Do you know if there's concern, perhaps, among prosecutors in Fulton County that this could wind up in federal court?

PATRICIA MURPHY, POLITICAL REPORTER, ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: Yes, of course, I mean, they would rather keep this in state court where they feel like, particularly the jury pool in Fulton County would be more likely to be more predisposed. I'm not so much against Donald Trump, but certainly not on his side right when they're getting started. Fulton County was a 72 percent Joe Biden County. So it's clearly a very Democratic County.

When you broaden that out to federal court, you also get a 10 county circle around Atlanta. And so that broadens it out so much more suburban and even rural parts of Georgia, and I would have a really much more favorable jury poll. So I think that's the biggest concern for prosecutors. In any circumstances, Fani Willis and her team will be the ones arguing this case, no matter which court it's in, they feel like their own evidence is going to be strong in either one. But it really is that question of the jury pool and being in front of different judges that's up in the air for them.

SANCHEZ: So Caroline, if the approach from Meadows succeeds, does that alter in any way the decision to go after a RICO case against these 19 defendants?

POLISI: Well, no. I mean, they -- as was just noted, Fani Willis and her team will continue, regardless of which courthouse, you know, the evidence is presented in. She will continue with this RICO case. I think what Sara alluded to is a really interesting sort of nerdy legal issue is whether or not if Meadows is successful in this bid to remove, whether or not, that means that all 19 defendants then have to be removed to federal court as well. We've seen sort of a cacophony of legal maneuvers by, you know, these various 19 defendants.

[10:10:10]

Kenneth Chesebro, for example, has made a bid to invoke his speedy trial rights. And the judge has granted that in the state court. He, as a set for now, is set to go to trial in October on this case. And various defendants have made their own motions to sever. So it's sort of a big mess right now. And we'll have to wait and see.

SANCHEZ: And it might be harder for those defendants too to make the case that they were acting as part of their jobs when they didn't really work at the White House for President Trump, right?

POLISI: Right, exactly. And they might not have to make that argument if the entire case is moved to federal court. However, there are four other defendants along with Mark Meadows who have made this same case that they were acting under color of law. If the decision is that, you know, these are separate individual cases for removal. Day two, will all have to make those arguments. It'll be interesting to see how it's plays out.

SANCHEZ: It definitely. And it's playing out as we speak. Caroline, Patricia, please stand by because we have some more news. Let's get to Sara Murray, who has some breaking news for us.

MURRAY: That's right. We're learning that the judge in Fulton County Superior Court has now set a plea date and an arraignment for former President Donald Trump. That date is going to be on September 6th, it looks like 9:30 in the morning. And it looks like the judge is going to try to do pleas and arraignments for everyone in the same day. We're starting to see these scheduling notes pop up in the docket, and it's sort of 15 minute increments for Donald Trump and his 18 co- defendants in this case.

Again, the rules in this Georgia court allow for the judge to hold these plea agreements and arraignments either virtually if he wants to do it on Zoom and also allows the defendants if the judge is OK with it to try to waive these initial appearances. So we still need to wait and see if Donald Trump is actually going to have to set foot in this courtroom in Georgia on September 6th. But the judge at least moving along and scheduling orders in this case, guys.

SANCHEZ: And Sara Murray, thank you so much for the update.

Patricia, September 6th, your reaction to that?

MURPHY: Well, as Sara said, it's not 100 percent certain that Donald Trump and his co-defendants would have to show up at these arrangements. Georgia Law usually lets them waive that in person appearance. But I think it really shows the accelerated timeline. And it also shows that Georgia, it feels different from a lot of these other court cases that have already been moved in other jurisdictions. Because we have so many defendants and so many court dates, this is going to be a constant stream almost a firehose of news and developments now right on through whenever they end up in trial, which could be very quickly or it could be many, many months from now, depending on exactly who's going into court when.

But it will be a huge, huge focus here in Georgia as the campaign starts to heat up and as Donald Trump is trying to make his case to be the GOP nominee here in Georgia, which is obviously a crucial battleground state.

SANCHEZ: A firehose of information that is a great way to put it. Patricia Murphy, Caroline Polisi, thank you so much. Rahel?

SOLOMON: All right, Boris, thank you. And coming up for us, today, Spain Soccer Federation is holding an emergency meeting over the group's president who was suspended after that unwanted kiss he gave one of the team's star players. Well now, the Spanish government is getting involved.

Also, CNN has new details about how Speaker Kevin McCarthy's closed door meetings, as House Republicans move closer to an impeachment inquiry against President Biden. Why some GOP members are still skeptical of his plan.

And a deadly weekend in America, shootings in several states, including Florida where investigators say a gunman motivated by hate targeted black people at a store in Jacksonville.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would someone be filled with such vitriolic hate to take these kinds of actions against citizens in our community just because of the color of their skin?

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SOLOMON: Welcome back. From Florida to Massachusetts to Oklahoma, it was another deadly weekend of gun violence in communities across the country whether at a football game, a parade or enjoying a night out or just shopping.

In Jacksonville, Florida Saturday shooting at Dollar General Store is being investigated as a hate crime. A white gunman killed three victims who were all black. The 21-year-old shooter drew swastikas on his firearms. And Jacksonville sheriff says that the gunman left behind racist ramblings that red light quote, the diary of a madman. Now many in the community say that they are left with loss and uncertainty.

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SABRINA ROZIER, FAMILY MEMBER OF VICTIM: I thought racism was behind us but evidently is not. You was a coward. You went in and shot these innocent people for nothing that you didn't even know.

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SOLOMON: CNN's Omar Jimenez joins us now. Omar, another deadly weekend.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, in the Jacksonville one. This is someone who is targeting black people according to the sheriff. And as you mentioned, the Justice Department is looking into this investigating it as a hate crime and an act of racially motivated violent extremism. I want you to take a listen to the Jacksonville Mayor who took particular exception with the nature of this attack. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR DONNA DEEGAN (D), JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA: It is a community that has been injured over and over and over again. And either we are walking in the direction of truth when it comes to our systemic racism in in our city and our state and in our country. Or we are in denial about that and creating policies that don't really help in that regard.

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JIMENEZ: Now that shooting also happened on the five year anniversary of a mass shooting in Jacksonville as well but during a video game tournament. And so we talked about the violence that we were covering that happened over the past few days. We are tracking a number of shootings that happen in a number of different localities in particular in Louisville. Two people were killed in a downtown shooting, while five others were injured. And police say they believe at the time, there were 2 to 300 people in the area when that shooting unfolded.

Now, in the Boston area, eight people were shot in total, that was near an annual parade, according to police. Four were arrested as a result of the investigation in that shooting bottom line for context. We have seen more than 470 mass shootings across the country, according to the Gun Violence Archive so far this year. That is the fastest we have gotten to that point, since they had been keeping record of this back in 2013.

So basically a decade at this point. So it's concerning. We saw a recent spate of it again over the past few days. And then in particular cases, like what we saw in Jacksonville to have extra layers of motivation, at least, that's what's being investigated concerning all together.

SOLOMON: And then there was also that Oklahoma example over the weekend where I believe that happened at a high school football game. Omar Jimenez, thank you. Boris?

SANCHEZ: We want to focus now on what happened in Jacksonville with Jacksonville City Councilwoman Ju'Coby Pittman. This horrible attack happened in her district. Councilwoman, thank you so much for sharing part of your morning with us. I'm so sorry that this happened in your backyard. I'm wondering how people in your district and how you are doing?

JU'COBY PITTMAN, JACKSONVILLE CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Well, I tell you, I'm still emotional about what has happened, that these families did not deserve this hate crime. You know, it has crippled and handcuffed our community. And families are hurting. You know, they're heartbroken. Our community is heartbroken as well.

SANCHEZ: Councilwoman, it strikes me that the march on Washington was 60 years ago today and yet investigators going through evidence found writings by the shooter in Jacksonville with deranged white supremacist beliefs. Why do you think that kind of hate still exists in our country?

PITTMAN: You know, unfortunately, you know, since the beginning of time, we have had racism, and it still exist. You know, there are policies that need to be changed. And that as a community as a country, we need to vote and ensure that they are changed. You know, I am at this point, I feel like we don't come together like we should. And, you know, today is just a real -- it's a sad day that racism and we're still talking about racism and the color of your skin and how it's impacting our community.

SANCHEZ: On the question of policy, the shooter was able to buy these weapons legally, even though he had been committed involuntarily, previously, for a mental health episode. Should he have had those weapons?

PITTMAN: You know, because in Florida, the concealed weapon has been approved. You know, anybody can carry a gun at this point. And I would say no, he shouldn't have had those guns. Because he had those guns he was able to shoot innocent people and take innocent people's lives. No, I don't believe he should have had an opportunity to buy those guns.

SANCHEZ: There was a vigil yesterday in Jacksonville and I found one particular moment. That was very special. Actually, you were speaking and you essentially pass the mic to Florida's Governor Ron DeSantis. And I want to show our viewers some of what happened next.

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PITTMAN: Listen, you all, let me tell you, we should put parties aside, because it ain't about parties today. A bullet don't know a party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: A bullet doesn't know a party. The Governor was getting heckled and you stood up to essentially quiet those people down. Yet Councilwoman, there are critics who say that Florida's Governor has enacted policies that created an environment that allowed this kind of attack to take place whether on guns or on race. What's your response to those critics?

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PITTMAN: Well, first of all, let me make myself clear. I had no idea that the Governor was coming. The emcee of the event for that day I called him up, he was just only was supposed to have been acknowledged as being there. That visual that we did yesterday was not about the Governor. And I will say I don't support any of the stances or policies that the Governor have implemented.

You know, my concern yesterday, was about the families. It was not a political ploy for me in our community. It was about focusing on the families that was there, and the hatred that had come to their community. And so I just want to make myself clear, I wanted the audience to come down, because I wanted him to sit down, and I wanted it to be the event that was for the residents and the community that had come together for unity. That's what that event was about not the Governor. Because I don't support what his stance is. Yes.

SANCHEZ: Councilwoman Ju'Coby Pittman, I just want to say that our hearts are with those families that you mentioned with your community and with you. Thanks so much for taking time for us today.

PITTMAN: Yes, thank you so much.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

SOLOMON: All right, Boris, thank you.

I'm going to get to some other news just into CNN, the federal judge in D.C. has rejected both former President Trump and the DOJ's proposed trial date, and the D.C. federal hearing. I want to get to CNN's Zach Cohen. He is live outside the court. So Zach, what else are you learning? What can you tell us?

COHEN: Yes, Rahel, it didn't take long for a judge to make clear that she would be rejecting both the DOJ's proposal for a trial date to start in January of next year. And also Donald Trump's proposed date of mid-2026, spring 2026. So it remains to be seen what date the judge will set for this trial to begin. We're expecting that to happen on Monday. But there were a few insightful comments from the judge that might give some hints.

The judge did note that the defendants personal and professional obligations really have no bearing on or no impact on the day to trial begins. The judge also noted though, of course, that Trump is facing criminal charges both at the state and federal level and other cases too which was an argument Trump's defense team said that he had other conflicting cases that might mess up the timing of this one.

So we should hear on Monday when this trial will start. But a judge making clear that the daylight between the two sides was the reason that the -- that both days were ultimately rejected today.

SOLOMON: So Zach to be clear, so rejecting both of their proposals, but we still expect to get some sort of trial date from the judge perhaps later today?

COHEN: That's right. The judge is saying there that neither side gets exactly what they want. So we do expect some sort of a compromise day just to happen there. The judge will ultimately make that decision. And we should get that announcement on Monday. But both the Department of Justice and the Trump team getting their proposals rejected today. So we have to wait until Monday to see what the judge decides as far as the trial date goes, or the start of the trial date.

SOLOMON: OK, we'll keep watching that closely. And check with you throughout the show. Zach Cohen, thank you.

I want to get to some other news now. Former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows is testifying at his hearing and Fulton County, Georgia. Let's bring in CNN Sara Murray, with the details. Sara?

MURRAY: Yes, this hearing is underway. And you know, we were saying earlier, we did not know who Mark Meadows team was going to call to testify if anyone. Now we know Mark Meadows himself is testifying in this hearing. Again, this is about whether he should be allowed to move his case to federal court, whether the federal court should dismiss the charges against him.

Obviously, somewhat of a risk to put Mark Meadows on oath -- under oath on the stand when he is now been indicted and charged in this criminal case, but they're trying to make the argument that he was acting as a federal official. So again, we're just getting the first words of what his attorney is questioning him about now that he's under oath. They're talking a little bit about his time serving his White House Chief of Staff. Meadows is saying those were challenging times bluntly.

He goes on to say, I don't know if anyone was fully prepared for that type of job. So we're waiting to see as they get into the meat of their argument, how they're going to try to make the case for Meadows to move all of this to try to get these charges dismissed. But it is significant given what a low profile Mark Meadows has kept since leaving the White House in these variety of criminal matters that he is now under oath testifying in this proceeding.

SOLOMON: Very notable indeed. We'll have to wait to see what else he says. And Sara Murray, we know you'll be watching it. Thank you.

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MURRAY: You're welcome. Thanks.

SOLOMON: All right, still coming up for us, tracking Tropical Storm Idalia. Emergency officials warning of a storm surge that could swell to more than seven feet and also the possibility of tornadic activity on Florida's Gulf Coast. Just ahead, we are checking on the storm's latest track with less than 48 hours until landfall. We'll be right back.