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Judge Rejects Trump's And DOJ's Proposed Trial Dates In D.C. Hearing; Meadows Testifying In Hearing To Move GA Case To Federal Court; DOJ Investigating Deadly Fl Shooting As A Hate Crime. Aired 11- 11:30a ET

Aired August 28, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Right now, two hearings in two different courtrooms underway former President Donald Trump, one in D.C., the other in Georgia, where his former chief of staff, Mark Meadows, just testified about his, quote, challenging times in the White House. We have details from both courtrooms.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN ANCHOR: A shooter motivated by hate opening fire on black shoppers in Jacksonville, Florida. This morning, we are learning more about the three victims.

SANCHEZ: And at any moment, an update on Tropical Storm Idalia's track as it gains strength and takes aim at Florida's Gulf Coast. This morning, President Biden taking action even before the storm makes landfall. I'm Boris Sanchez with Rahel Solomon in for John, Kate and Sara. And this is CNN News Central.

We are closely following a critical morning for Donald Trump's criminal cases. Right now, two key hearings underway in Atlanta and Washington D.C. Both expected to end with rulings from judges that could potentially shape how and when the former President faces trial. In D.C., the judge just rejecting the trial dates that the DOJ and Trump's lawyers were pitching. Federal prosecutors wanted four months from now. Trump wanted more than two years from now. The judge saying neither suggestion was acceptable.

Plus, we now have an arraignment date in Fulton County, Georgia. The judge deciding Trump and his 18 accused co-defendants must be arraigned on September 6th and with cameras allowed in the courtroom through at least September 8th, for the first time in his four cases, we could hear and see Donald Trump live pleading not guilty.

We begin in Georgia, where Mark Meadows is currently testifying. He's been on the stand for roughly 30 minutes. CNN's Sara Murray has the latest details. So, Sara, what is the former chief of staff saying?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, it's sort of remarkable that he's taken the stand at all. I mean, Mark Meadows has kept such a low profile throughout all of these criminal cases. But now he's in the midst of this hearing where he's trying to move his part of the Georgia case, the charges against him, to federal court and potentially trying to get those dismissed.

So he's talking a little bit about what it was like to serve as chief of staff in the Trump White House, of course, a chaotic position to be in. He described them as those were challenging times, bluntly. He went on to say, I don't know if anyone was fully prepared for that type of job. He also just finished telling the court about a daily morning call that he had in the days after the attack on the U.S. Capitol on January 6th. On that call was Mike Pompeo as well as General Mark Milley.

And he said they were discussing the possibility that some of our adversaries could see the U.S. as weak in the wake of the events that happened on January 6th. So, again, this is all still playing out at this courtroom, this federal courtroom in Georgia. And we're looking not just for any implications of what this means for Mark Meadows, his case, his efforts to try to move this to federal court, but what this could mean for the broader case that Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is trying to make against Donald Trump, his co-defendants, and the possibility that they could all end up in federal court.

And you pointed out that arraignment, Boris. We're still waiting to see how that's going to pan out for Mark Meadows, for Donald Trump and others. This is a court that tends to allow people to do their arraignments over Zoom, or perhaps even waive them if the judge allows that. So we're still waiting to see if Donald Trump and his allies are actually going to end up in a courtroom on September 6th or not.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Important to point out, as you did, Sara, that Mark Meadows, throughout all of this, had been so quiet, and yet today he's taking the stand, giving significant testimony. Sara Murray in Washington, D.C.

And Rahel as this is happening in D.C., a lot going on in Georgia.

SOLOMON: And a lot happening, as we're finding out. Boris, thank you. I want to go to Washington, D.C. now, where a judge has just rejected the trial dates that Special Counsel Jack Smith and Donald Trump proposed for the Federal election subversion case. So when exactly will the trial be? I want to bring in CNN's Zachary Cohen. Zachary, bring us into the courtroom because apparently the judge also making some comments to both sides to lower the temperature.

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ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: That's right, Rahel. Apparently, with thing's getting heated in the courtroom today as Donald Trump's lawyers and prosecutors are arguing over the timing of when this trial should start. And so far, we've learned when this trial will not be starting. The judge in this case making it very clear to Trump's lawyers that they will not get two years before this trial begins. That was the proposal on the table from Trump's team. They wanted an April 2026 start date. But the judge making very, very appointed comments today in the courtroom saying, you're not going to get two more years in this case and effectively telling the defense lawyers that they should have been ready for this indictment when it came, and there's really no excuse that they would need that much time.

Now, on the other side, the judge has also rejected the Department of Justice's proposed date, which was January 2nd of next year. So we're still waiting to see when the judge will ultimately set that trial start date, but making clear to both sides in what is a contentious hearing that neither a proposal is going to fly. But we do expect the judge to set a date today.

SOLOMON: Contentious already, I mean, it started at 10:00 a.m., so we're only about an hour into this. Zach Cohen, lots for you to watch. Thank you for bringing it to us. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Let's get some legal expertise now with Michael Moore, a former U.S. Attorney. Michael, thanks so much for being with us. I do want to read you something from John Laro just moments ago, speaking in court to Judge Tanya Chutkan. He said with a raised voice quote, for a federal prosecutor to suggest that we could go to trial in four months is not only absurd, but it is a violation of their oath to do justice. Judge Chutkan in response, said, let's take the temperature down a little bit here. It sounds like there are really tense moments in court, Michael.

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Yes, I'm glad to be with both of you this morning. I think the judge is right. They do need to tamp down the temperature a little bit, especially when it comes to arguing their motions. You can be a zealous advocate without necessarily having to take shots about the -- your counsel or opponent's credibility or integrity, as the case may be and it sounds like here.

Look, there was no possible way this case was going to be scheduled for January the 2nd. I mean, that just was a stunt, and everybody saw it as a stunt, and so that just was not going to happen. Likewise, the case was not going to be scheduled for 2026. And so the judge now will have to weigh both the schedule that's going on next year with these various cases as well, there'll be some consideration about the election. And he is, in fact, presumed innocence that the former president is.

So he has a right to raise those things and what's going on, and the claim that they would be trying to knock him off the campaign trail. At the same time, she's got to weigh the interest to move the case forward and have some efficiency. So she'll find something. But also remember that trial dates move. So even if we see a date set for some time later next year, there's the likelihood that date will get moved by appeals. An appellate court could issue a stay. There's a number of things that could happen. This is simply to keep the train on the tracks as we move forward to ultimately some resolution.

SANCHEZ: And Michael, at the core of the defense's argument to try to push this thing back is just the mountain of evidence that they would have to go through something like 12.8 million pages of discovery. The fact is, though, defense handed over much of those documents. A lot of those documents were produced by Donald Trump's team. So does it stand a reason that they need ample time to review information that they themselves have handed over?

MOORE: Right. The Constitution guarantees an accused, the defendant in this case, and the former president, guarantees him the right to have an effective defense, an effective representation under the 6th Amendment. And what that means, basically, is he has a right to have lawyers who are prepared and who have the time to prepare. And so the fact that there is 12 million pages of documents, roughly, is something that the court is going to take into consideration.

And remember that the government has been investigating this case for the better part of almost three years now as we've moved forward. Now, I realize Jack Smith hadn't been into that long as special counsel. But the government has had the ability to investigate this case. We've been through the January 6th commission. We've been through various grand juries. We've had now, obviously a parallel case in Georgia that mimics a lot of the federal trial.

So the idea that somehow his lawyers would need to speed read through 12 million documents, the court's not going to put up with that either. So she'll want to make sure that his lawyers have sufficient time so that does not become an issue on appeal should he be convicted. So she's going to make sure that right is protected just like his other constitutional rights.

SANCHEZ: And Michael, quickly, I want to zero in on Mark Meadow's testimony. He's essentially saying that there was a turbulent time at the White House, but everything he did it at the direction of former President Trump. Could that succeed and could it create a precedent for other defendants in that case?

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MOORE: I think his motion is a good motion, whether or not the judge thinks it's enough that we'll see. But all he has to say state is that he has a plausible or colorable claim that he was doing his job as a federal employee. And the President is the President 24 hours a day and Chief of Staff is the Chief of staff of the President 24 hours a day. And that means he's at the Beckham call of the President.

And so these things like setting up meetings, making telephone calls, those are clearly within his duties. They will argue, I'm sure the state will, that this is, you know, criminal conduct. Well, that's a matter to be proven at trial. That's -- we're not at trial at this point. We're simply at a motion where the defendant needs to state, hey, look, I was doing my job. You may claim some of those were illegal, but we're not at that place yet. I don't have to prove that at this point in the case.

Remember that 154 of the 157 overt acts that the State alleges in this indictment as part of the conspiracy all occurred while Trump was the sitting President of the United States. And so that's got to have some weight, as the court considers. Were these acts done during the time that Meadows was serving and was actually President, or, you know, are these things that I'm going to let pass by? But I think the judge will give it due weight. He's a good judge, Jones is, and so he'll certainly weigh those arguments seriously I think.

SANCHEZ: That testimony from Meadows is ongoing. Michael Moore, always appreciate your perspective. Thanks so much.

MOORE: Always a pleasure. Thanks Boris.

SANCHEZ: Rahel?

SOLOMON: All right, Boris, thank you.

And just in, the National Hurricane Center releasing new information on Tropical Storm Idalia's track as it strengthens in the Gulf. The storm on track to become a category three hurricane and reach Florida's Gulf Coast by early Wednesday. The updated forecast indicating a storm surge that could reach up to 9 feet in some areas of Florida. President Biden spoke with Governor DeSantis this morning and approved the state's disaster declaration.

Meteorologist Derek Van Dam joining us now from the CNN Weather Center. Derek, break down this latest update for us.

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, some critically important information to pass along from this 11:00 a.m. Eastern Standard Time update from the National Hurricane Center, namely that we now have hurricane warnings in effect for much of the Florida West Coast across the Big Bend.

This basically runs from an area called Longboat Key, just south of Tampa Bay. It does include Tampa Bay and it reaches north through Cedar Key and just to the east of Apalachicola, so this Big Bend area, that is where the newly issued hurricane warnings. We have tropical Storm warnings inclusive of Fort Myers and Naples. And then this is also interesting to note, tropical -- these are rather tropical storm watches on the east side of the state.

So this includes Jacksonville all the way to Orlando. So this storm is going to plow basically through the Florida peninsula from Wednesday into Thursday. Remember, this is not just a Florida storm. This will impact southern Georgia as well as the Carolinas as well. Now, the latest information still has this at tropical storm strength, so 65 miles per hour winds. It is battling a lot of shear in the upper levels of the atmosphere. But trust me, it's got a lot of warm water. The environment will become more favorable for this storm to strengthen and that is what the official forecast track calls.

This is the latest, we do have a category three hurricane that is a major hurricane impacting the Florida Big Bend region by Wednesday morning. And then it makes its way across southern Georgia and into the Carolinas by Thursday. Here's the updated storm surge totals. You can see 7 to 11 feet above normally dry ground. That is significant. That will inundate many areas along the coastal regions. And then, of course, we've got inland flooding, a possibility as well.

Look at these winds, Rahel, easily gusting over 100 miles per hour as we head into the middle of this work week. So, so much to cover here. Lots of impacts coming up.

SOLOMON: Yes, about 48 hours for people to really sort of get their preparations in place. Derek Van Dam, thank you. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Still to come this morning, the DOJ now investigating the Jacksonville shooting as a possible hate crime, an act of domestic violent extremism. What we know about the three black people killed by a white gunman.

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And later, a new large study finding signs of head trauma in athletes under 30. We're going to bring you some significant new details when we come back.

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SANCHEZ: Shock and grief this morning in Jacksonville, Florida, after police say three people were killed in a racist attack. An attack the DOJ is now investigating is a hate crime. Police have released images from surveillance video of Saturday's deadly shooting. Investigators say that the shooter, a white man, stormed into a Dollar General Store. He killed two people inside and then shot and killed a third in the parking lot. All three of the victims were black. The 21-year-old shooter had drawn swastikas on his weapons. And Jacksonville sheriff says the gunman left behind a racist rambling that reads like, quote, the diary of a madman. Listen.

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SHERIFF T.K. WATERS, JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA: There's no question about it. He hated blacks, and I think he hated just about everyone that wasn't white. He made that very clear. I want to make sure people understand that he is completely accountable. He understood what he was doing. Based upon the things that I've read, he understood what he was doing. And he understood why he was doing it.

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SANCHEZ: Let's go live to Jacksonville now with CNN's Isabel Rosales. So, Isabel, bring us up to speed. What's the latest on the investigation?

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ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Boris, I've been speaking with so many people here in the community over the weekend, and they are understandably enraged. They are disturbed. But they are also resilient. There was a tremendous turnout yesterday at a vigil. Hundreds of people just coming together, unified by this dark moment to remember the victims and to figure out the next steps and how to support the family members of these victims.

I do also want to get into some new reporting from the Sheriff T.K. Waters, who says that, quote, for some reason, this shooter was very focused on this Dollar General. He showed up here wearing a tactical vest, a mask. He had an AR-15. He had a Glock on its swastikas. In this parking lot, he shot one woman, Angela Carr, inside her vehicle, then went inside and shot two others, one of them an employee of the Dollar General.

And that racist rampage lasted for 11 minutes. All of the victims here were black. Listen to a state senator right now, Tracie Davis, what she has to say.

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SEN. TRACIE DAVIS (D-FL): I'm angry. I'm sad to realize we are in 2023, and as a black person, we are still hunted because that's what that was. That was someone planning and executed three people.

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ROSALES: And just blocks away is a historically black university where this shooter ended up there first before coming to the Dollar General. There is a planned press conference later today with a security guard who turned him away. We'll work to bring that to you. Boris?

SANCHEZ: We look forward to hearing from him. Isabel Rosales, thank you so much from Jacksonville. Rahel?

SOLOMON: All right, Boris, thank you. And the attack in Jacksonville is just the latest in recent years where a white gunman has targeted black people. Last year 10 people were killed at the Tops supermarket in Buffalo, New York and nine people were killed at an historically black church in Charleston, South Carolina in a mass shooting there in 2015.

Let's bring in Steve Benjamin. He is a White House senior adviser and director of the Office of Public Engagement. Steve, good morning and thank you for the time today. I want to start with President Biden speaking with the sheriff and mayor of Jacksonville last night in the wake of this attack offering full support. What type of support is the President prepared to give?

STEVE BENJAMIN, WH SENIOR ADVISER & DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT: Well, I will tell you, the President has been leading on the front, he and the Vice President. But most importantly, that was heartbreaking to hear the state senator's comments there. We all have lived through this all too often. That's why the President convened the United Against Hate Summit with civil leaders, with labor leaders and so many other last year, and the progress we've been making with the Justice Department to target these hate crimes.

We're gathering today, as you may know, with members of the King family, Reverend Sharpton, Jonathan Greenblatt, with the Anti- Defamation League and several others, to continue to talk about this, this ongoing work that we must undo.

As I looked at Jacksonville, I thought about my friend Clementa Pinckney, murdered in Charleston in 2015, and how we just have to keep hearing about this nonsense time and time again. The President has reached out, as you mentioned, talked to the mayor, talked to the sheriff and will continue to lean in, as with this Department of Justice investigation yields more and more details, and see how much support we can provide, not only to Jacksonville, but the national support the President has been providing on making sure that we continue to tell the story of race in America and how, what he has framed white supremacy, and some of this violence as the greatest national security threat to this country.

SOLOMON: The gathering that you mentioned at the White House today with the King family, of course, because of the 60th anniversary of the March on Washington. Certainly not lost on you, sir, that this shooting, that this killing happened just days before this anniversary.

I want to play for you a sound bite, a clip from earlier this morning. Martin Luther King Jr.'s son speaking to CNN this morning and then we can discuss.

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MARTIN LUTHER KING III, GLOBAL HUMAN RIGHTS LEADER: There's something wrong with the nation where this continues to happen over and over again. If you remember in 1963, about three weeks after the march on Washington, four little girls lost their lives in the 16th Street Baptist church because of bombing. Every time there seems to be a sense of a forward movement, there is always the inevitable setback.

The fact of the matter is, hate is being promoted in this country. And we've got to change that. And we've got to do something about it now, not tomorrow, not next week, but now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: So what needs to happen differently, sir, because, I mean, Jacksonville specifically has been said to be a breeding ground for neo-Nazism. I mean what needs to change?

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BENJAMIN: Well, I think a lot of things obviously need to change. And that's why the ongoing constant work that the President and Vice President have been leading on to fighting every -- against every type of ism, not just racism, but sexism, against anti-LGBT rhetoric that has been advanced even in places like Florida, the attempts to try and rewrite American history.

The President, just last month, established the Emmett Till and Mamie Till-Mobley monument to make sure that all these attempts to rewrite American history and not tell the true story of the challenges in this nation, that it cannot be undone.

We have -- I spent time this weekend with Martin King III and Reverend Sharpton, but also with several other supporters and leaders who've worked with Dr. King, Ambassador Andrew Young and Clarence Jones and others, and also Terri Sewell, Congressman Sewell, who represents Birmingham where the 15th Street Baptist Church bombing happened. And we all agreed that there's -- this is a constant labor.

And that's why it's good to have a President who is focused on this work, who always has an open door, who always speaks to the better angles of our nature. But in just talking, he's leading to policy and making sure that everything that happens in the Biden-Harris administration continues to focus on equity, continues to focus on all of us coming together and surviving together.

SOLOMON: You mentioned one of the victims of the Charleston, South Carolina, shooting a few years ago. I wonder, you were mayor of nearby Columbia at the time, about 100 miles apart. What is it like representing, leading a community after something like that happens? We've heard from people in Jacksonville saying that they essentially felt like they were being hunted.

BENJAMIN: It was incredibly painful. And not only was senator and Pastor Pinckney, the pastor of Mother Emanuel, not only was he was a friend, he was a longtime friend. We served as pages at the state capitol together when we were both very young men. His wife is a friend and classmate. His daughters are both very meaningful in our lives, our family's lives. So, it hurt.

Obviously, we were in Charleston actually that evening just before the shooting. But I was the mayor at the state capital. So with -- at that very same time the confederate battle flag still hung, not in a sovereign position, but at our state capital. So, we were the center of protest to change that. That unfortunate race-based killing was the immediate cause that led to the flag coming down.

But it reminds us every single day of the sacrifices of so many who fought to make sure that America's true to the hopes and dreams of everyone. And that while we are not perfect, and certainly not where we want to be, we're not where we used to be, but it takes the vigilance and the hard work of men and women who want to make sure this country represents everyone. And that leadership, thank God, is coming from the top, from men like Joe Biden and women like Kamala Harris.

And, again, I'd like to wrap this, as I'm sure you are, where we started. I know that the President and Dr. Biden have extended their condolences. We'll continue to be vigilant as we follow up on this Jacksonville shooting, staying in touch with those on the ground. And whatever we can do, we will be doing to help the folks and the families.

SOLOMON: Steve Benjamin, we appreciate the time today. Thank you. Boris?

BENJAMIN: Thank you. Thank you, Rahel.

SANCHEZ: A major update just in from federal court in Washington D.C., Judge Tanya Chutkan setting a start date for Donald trump's federal trial over his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. We're going to bring you those details in just a moment.

And incredible new video out of Florida where a helicopter crashed into the roof of a building. What we're learning went wrong in this incident.

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