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Judge Sets March 4, 2024 Start Date In Trump Federal Trial; Hurricane Warnings Issued For Portions Of Florida's West Coast; How Climate Change Impacts Hurricane Season. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired August 28, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:01:13]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: The date is announced. After a heated hearing, Federal Judge Tanya Chutkan schedules former President Donald Trump's election interference trial, the federal one, led by the federal -- by the special counsel to begin on March 4, 2024. We're going to have more details on that and where exactly it fits into the Republican primary race calendar.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And meantime, in Fulton County, Georgia, Trump's former chief of staff takes the stand in hopes of moving his trial to federal court. We're going to tell you what Mark Meadows said in court and why he wants the case moved out of the state's jurisdiction.

And we're tracking Tropical Storm Idalia. It's expected to strengthen into a major hurricane targeting the Florida coast this week. We are following these major developing stories, and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SCIUTTO: Trial date is set. Today, a federal judge chose March 4, 2024, as the start date for the special counsel's election interference trial of Donald Trump. That, the day right before Super Tuesday. Of course, a pivotal date when voters in several states will have a chance to pull the lever, possibly for Trump or others in the Republican primary and it's much sooner than the April 2026 date that Trump's defense lawyers had asked for.

That's just one of two major developments today in one of two election subversion cases against Donald Trump. The other of course in the state of Georgia, Trump's former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows is on the stand today. He was there for three hours so far in a hearing to move his case to federal court, his actions after the 2020 election under the microscope in that Georgia indictment, and in the spotlight during questioning under oath on the stand today.

CNN Justice Correspondent Jessica Schneider is here. Let's begin with that federal case, March 4, 2024. Trump had wanted it for more than two years after that, April 2026. How did the judge decide here?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, this was two months later than the special counsel wanted. But as you said, more than two years earlier than what Trump's team wanted.

And Trump's attorney here, John Lauro. He really pushed back on this. He kind of set the stage for a possible appeal. He said, look, Judge, with this accelerated timeline just about six months away, I will not be able to provide effective counsel to the president.

He said it this way. It will deny President Trump the opportunity to have effective assistance of counsel. So, they're already laying the groundwork that this isn't enough time here.

The judge basically said I am not taking anything else into consideration here. The quote was. "She's setting a trial date, it does not depend and should not depend on the defendant's personal or professional obligations." So, she set that March 4th trial date without any real consideration of what else is going on for the former president.

SCIUTTO: They can appeal where exactly and how quickly will that happen.

SCHNEIDER: I think just down the road.

SCIUTTO: OK.

SCHNEIDER: They're basically saying this timeline does not give us the proper ability to adequately prepare for this trial and adequately represent Trump. So, that's just setting the stage for far in the future.

SCIUTTO: Yes. It was in their record, even on appeals has not been great.

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: And a lot of these cases going back to their attempts to overturn the election. Jessica Schneider, thanks so much. Brianna?

KEILAR: All right, let's zero in now on the Georgia case with CNN's Sara Murray. So, Sara, Mark Meadows on the stand for about three hours now. That is quite a long time. What has he been asked by the DA's office? What has he been saying?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's sort of remarkable that he's taking the stand at all, right? You know, he's a criminal defendant in this case. He's kept such a low profile when it comes to the cases involving former President Donald Trump.

But at this point, he is trying to get his case moved from state court to federal court. And so, he went under oath to essentially make the argument that the activities that he took part in after the 2020 election were all related to his duties as the chief of staff for Donald Trump at the time.

[14:05:12]

So, you know, prosecutors are asking him what is the federal duty of you being on a call with Rudy Giuliani, Donald Trump's personal attorney? And Meadows is telling them. Well, I was, you know, sort of a scheduler, I was the gatekeeper, and we have a federal interest in making sure elections are run properly. They've run through some of the specific things in the indictment against him, and Meadows has denied participating in some of the conduct that was included in the indictment.

And he also sort of opined on what it was like to have this job as the White House Chief of Staff. Saying it was difficult, to put it bluntly, that there was no way to really prepare for this kind of job. And also pointing out that, you know, playing gatekeeper in the Trump White House can be a difficult position to be in, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly. How closely is Team Trump watching this hearing?

MURRAY: Well, they're certainly paying close attention to it. One of Trump's attorneys in Georgia was spotted, I believe in an overflow courtroom, or a team that was at court said. And look, they have good reason to pay attention to this case. Donald Trump is expected to try to move the case to federal court, but he has not actually made that motion yet.

And one of the questions as this whole Mark Meadows saga plays out is if the judge or if the prosecutors are going to offer any kind of determination on whether they think you know, if Mark Meadows is successful here, does that mean that all of the other defendants in this case, including Donald Trump, should be moved to federal court? Again, we're still deep in the weeds of this evidentiary hearing. There could still be more witnesses over the course of the day-to-day, so we'll wait to see what the judge may have to say on all this, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Sara Murray, thank you so much. Let's talk a little bit more about the argument that Trump may make here. He is expected to say that much of the conduct that he has been charged with was carried out in his capacity as an officer of the federal government because he was still president during the time when he and his allies tried to overturn the 2020 election results.

Remember, Trump has actually already tried this move. He did it in New York in the hush money case. A federal judge there rejected that argument.

You may recall, however, that may not be the case in Georgia where Trump is facing 13 counts because for Trump, taking the case federally could have several advantages. And also the charge is very different than in the hush money case here.

For one, jurors. A trial in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia withdrew from a much wider jury pool than the current case in Fulton County where Trump is not popular, to say the least. Case in point, former President Trump earned 26 percent of the vote there. Just 26 percent of the vote back in 2020.

And there is as well, another benefit for Trump, and that is judges. He has appointed four of the 15 judges on the Northern District of Georgia District Court bench. That would give him a decent chance of getting one of his own picks for the trial. We should note that Trump drew one of his own judicial appointees in the classified documents case. That, of course, being judge Aileen Cannon.

And another factor here. If this moves to federal court, there is the chance that Trump could pardon himself if he is elected president again. He could have that authority, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Let's break it down with CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst and former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe and Republican Election Lawyer Ben Ginsberg. Andy, first looking at this date, March 4, 2024, Trump's lawyers say this is an accelerated timeline, and they can't be prepared in time. Is that actually an accelerated timeline?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It's not a particularly accelerated timeline for a one-defendant case in which you basically have three violations of law alleged. It's a big case. It's a historic case, no doubt. It's a case with a significant amount of discovery. But that sort of stuff is cut through every day in federal courts around the country.

SCIUTTO: Understood. OK. Ben Ginsberg. Mark Meadows, his essential argument here, I should say, his defense lawyers' argument is that his duties as a member of the executive branch included what he was up to here. Including joining that phone call, which -- in which the former president or the president at the time asked Georgia's top election officials to find those votes. But also about speeding up the signature-matching process by having the Trump campaign pay for it. You're a lawyer here. Does his argument that these fell under his duties as a federal official, does it stand?

BEN GINSBERG, REPUBLICAN ELECTION LAWYER: I think it's going to be pretty difficult to have that argument stand. In the law, there are clear-cut distinctions between political activity and the scope of official duties.

But let's remember, Jim, that the Trump administration had a rather unique view of that separation. This was the administration that found it was OK to have the Republican National Convention on White House grounds so that the scope that Mark Meadows as chief of staff and a Trump administration employee may bring to this is different where certainly the norms have been, and also I believe the law.

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SCIUTTO: Jumping ahead a little bit to Trump's case, Andy McCabe, making the same argument here that hey, these were my federal duties. You made a point to me off-camera before. What -- why would the law in the Constitution open a question about whether these were under Trump's federal duties?

MCCABE: Well, it's a -- it's a novel argument, but it's one that may stick here. And that is that the first -- the first prong of that test is you must have acted within the scope of -- you must be a federal official, right? SCIUTTO: Right.

MCCABE: And there are some who argued that the president may not qualify as a -- as an officer of the federal government simply because the Constitution specifies that the president is responsible for appointing all federal officers.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCCABE: So, that in and of itself would suggest that he may not be considered one.

SCIUTTO: And there are a lot of folks out there particularly on the conservative side, as you know, who are originalist and say, we got to go exactly how it was written in the Constitution.

MCCABE: That's right.

SCIUTTO: Ben, as we follow events with Mark Meadows' attempt here to move his Georgia State case to federal court, I mean there are particular aspects to each of these defendants here that might relate to a decision to do so or not to do so. But how his case goes, is that an indicator as to how the other defendants' cases and arguments to move to federal court, including Trump's might go or are they different things?

GINSBERG: Well, it could be, but in some cases more than others. There are a number of defendants who had no nexus to the federal government. They were purely acting in a political capacity in their roles as state campaign people for the former president. And so, while the Mark Meadows trial may be an indicator for some of the defendants, it's not for all of them on the same grounds.

Now, you then have the issue of sort of efficient judicial management that will come into play for all the defendants. So, this is one that's going to be borne out. But interestingly, the sort of linchpin of the whole thing is whether what Mark Meadows did in those phone calls was part of his official duties --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GINSBERG: -- or acting as a political supporter of the president.

SCIUTTO: Andy McCabe, I asked this question a lot of lawyers on this program. Of course, we talked to a lot of them as we're analyzing these cases. As to what is the likelihood that one or more than one of the four criminal cases the former president is now involved in happen before Election Day, November 2024? Are you confident that one or more of them does happen?

MCCABE: I think the likelihood got better today with the recent scheduling order in the January six case here in DC. I think there's a real chance now that that case, could go to trial and come to a conclusion before the election. However, even that trial date as motions come up and things are won and lost and appealed and delayed, that they could slip. But we have a fair amount of time to get it in at this point.

SCIUTTO: Understood. Andy McCabe, Ben Ginsberg, thanks so much to both of you. Brianna.

KEILAR: A state of emergency has been declared in Florida ahead of Idalia's expected landfall as a major hurricane. We'll have the latest on the storm's track. Next.

And we're following the latest developments out of Jacksonville where the sheriff says he believes the gunman accused of killing several people in a Dollar General store, hated anyone who wasn't white. We're live on the scene.

And then later, NASCAR driver Ryan Preece is recovering after what was just a terrifying crash on Sunday. We'll have the latest on his condition. You're watching CNN NEWS CENTRAL, and we'll be right back.

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SCIUTTO: Parts of Florida's West Coast are under a hurricane warning as now-Tropical Storm Idalia spins towards the Gulf Coast. The storm is expected to make landfall as a major Category Three storm by Wednesday morning. That means a dangerous storm surge. Of course, high winds, heavy flooding.

Governor Ron DeSantis is urging residents to do all they can to prepare for what's coming. Warning. This storm is going to have a major impact.

Crews from FEMA have already been on the ground in Florida since last week, setting up food and water staging areas, several school districts have already closed down, and a state of emergency has been declared for most of the state. Evacuation orders also put in place.

CNN Meteorologist Chad Myers. He's in the CNN Weather Center. And, Chad, I think for folks at home, they're watching this. They're thinking is this going to hit me? Can you tell us where are the evacuation orders extended from now? And I know they can change because the course can change --

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: They will.

SCIUTTO: The storm can change course. But tell us where they stand now.

MYERS: And I believe they will even if the course of the -- of the storm doesn't change. Right now, Zone A. You need to leave. And you know if you're in Zone A, you know if you're three to five feet above sea level and you're going to get a five to seven-foot surge at Tampa Bay that your house is going to get wet. And you want to be out of there before that happens. So, that's the mandatory right now.

Then there's the voluntary, the Zone B and C. If you are in a mobile home, if you live in an RV, if you have problems if you will not have power, you need to be out of there because there will likely be hundreds of thousands if not millions of people without power. There will be hundreds of thousands of pine trees that will fall on roads that will make evacuation impossible after tomorrow night.

So, today's the day to go. Tomorrow's not too late. But Wednesday, it certainly will be.

Hurricane warnings in effect. The winds are going to be 115. There will also be land-falling waterspouts and tornadoes with this storm along the Florida coast.

Even inland, possibly as far inland as Ocala. Orlando. This is kind of the right side of the eye here towards Tampa and inland. So, yes, so many things are going to go wrong. Not well.

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The things that could go right. The water could be cold. It's not. There could be a lot of shear. Right now, there is. But that's going to end tonight.

There could be some land interaction. There won't be. There could be some dry air. There's not. So, those are the four things that could cool the storm down, we have none of it. We have nothing other than things to make the storm get stronger.

And up toward the Big Bend of Florida here, this is the area here.0 Cedar Key, Highway 19, I -10 will likely be shut down at some point in time with these trees falling on the interstate. Falling on the roadways. You need to evacuate before that happens.

The water is 85-90 degrees out here. We've never seen a hurricane in this type of water in the Gulf before. 1The Gulf hasn't been this warm before, so that makes sense.

Seven to 11-foot storm surge in towns here, Cedar Key and Steinhatchee that don't even have 11-foot of elevation. So, you need to go now. There are some shelters in those towns that are between 11 and 14. But OK, let's not -- let's not go between 11 and 14 if the surge is going to be up to 11 You know, we can't really make that distinction here.

There's the rainfall. There will be flash -- freshwater flooding, without a doubt. There goes the wind. Tallahassee, all those trees, all those power lines coming down. People will be without power, Jim, for weeks.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MYERS: Without a doubt, some people will not have power that long -- it will take that long to get power back up. When you have 110 miles per hour here in Cedar Key, and all the way to Jacksonville, hurricane force maybe even Cat Two Force because it's not going to slow down that much.

SCIUTTO: Yes. MYERS: One more thing going on. Franklin, 145 miles per hour going to 150. We're watching the beaches here for rip currents. People are still in the water here at Myrtle. Little bit higher waves down in Cocoa Beach and such. But because of Franklin, you need to be out of the water for a different reason because the crashing waves and the dragging you out to see risk will be extremely high starting tonight.

SCIUTTO: Got something to watch on. You always -- you and I always talking about how does climate make -- change make a difference to storms like this. Makes it warmer.

MYERS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Makes the storms more powerful and that affecting conditions today. Chad Myers, at the weather center, thanks so much.

MYERS: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Brianna.

KEILAR: Experts say that Florida's active hurricane seasons are being impacted by climate change in those ways. You just heard Jim talk about the warmer ocean waters, easier for storms to intensify more rapidly. Higher sea levels can also feed storm surge and coastal flooding. It all works together in a really bad way.

We have CNN Chief Climate Correspondent Bill Weir here to discuss. I mean, Bill, Florida is no stranger to hurricanes, right? This is just part and parcel of being in Florida. But tell us how climate change is making it even tougher for the state.

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, you know climate change doesn't create more hurricanes. It just creates more deadly or more expensive or more damaging hurricanes depending on where it hits landfall. Warmer water as we just heard is the fuel. We got a lot of that.

That hit triple digits near the Florida Keys this summer. Hot tub hot there, and so we just knew it was a matter of not if but when. And now, it's a matter of where this thing comes ashore.

Remember. Less than a year ago, I was down there actually started Hurricane Ian watch in Tampa, but it ended up hitting further south. That one ended up being the third costliest ever behind Katrina and Harvey, a $115 billion storm, took 150 lives in Florida over 160 elsewhere, and so yes, it's a one-two punch season after season it seems.

KEILAR: That is really the name of the game when we talk about all kinds of natural disasters, the costliness of it. And when we talk about whether it is sustainable, just you know business-wise, tell us what you're seeing with insurance policies. Because these numbers do not lie when you have one major carrier like farmers entirely leaving Florida.

WEIR: Farmers is just one of the sort of -- there's a stampede of insurers leaving Florida right now. Over the last 18 months, 15 home insurers have stopped adding new business, four carriers announced plans to withdrawal entirely, seven companies declared insolvent. There's another 18 insurers which are on the regulatory watch list to make sure they're solvent.

And just last week, citizens' United, that's sort of the last resort insurer in the state publicly owned suggested an almost 20 percent rate increase for everybody. So, even if you live in Orlando or somewhere nowhere near the beach these days, you're subsidizing the cost of living in just a place being increasingly ravaged by these hurricanes that insurance companies can't keep up with.

KEILAR: Yes, they used to make their money insuring these folks in these places and now they're going bankrupt doing it. So, that is certainly very telling. Bill Weir, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Jim?

WEIR: You bet.

SCIUTTO: Still to come, March Madness of a different kind. Donald Trump's campaign calendar will now conflict with his legal calendar after a federal judge sets the start of his election interference trial, the Federal one, for the day before Super Tuesday. We're going to have more on the effects of that. Next.

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KEILAR: Former President Trump's trial date in his federal election interference case is now set. That trial will begin on March four of next year. Before setting the date, U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan said she would not consider Trump's personal and professional obligations. And she most definitely did not. The trial will be starting one day before the Super Tuesday primaries.

Joining me now to discuss. We have CNN National Correspondent Kristen Holmes and CNN National Politics Correspondent Eva McKend.