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NC Gov Pledges All Resources To Capture "Shooter" On Or Near UNC-Chapel Hill Campus; Police: "Armed And Dangerous" Suspect At Large On Or Near UNC-Chapel Hill Campus; Shelter-In-Place In Effect. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 28, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:35]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: We are following breaking news out of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill where police at the school are responding to what they're calling an armed and dangerous person on or near campus. That is according to an alert from the university.

CNN's Nick Valencia joining us now with more information.

What can you tell us, Nick, the latest? We've been checking in with you. Obviously, this is a dynamic situation and a lot of questions we don't have answers to.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A lot of questions we don't have answers to. And we're looking at video now coming in from our local affiliate there in Raleigh, WRAL and WTVD. This is still very much so an active situation and you're seeing the police officers in tactical gear show up there on campus.

The alert from the university went out to those in the area shortly after 1 PM Eastern with the alert saying that there was an armed and dangerous person on or near campus. We've since been told that this incident centered around the Bell Tower part of campus, which is the central part of the UNC campus. And we've been looking at video coming from our local affiliates of police in tactical gear escorting students, it appears, out of buildings with their hands up.

Now, in the last 30 minutes, some students have been emerging. They no longer have their hands up and it seems as though they're no longer running out from those buildings, but it is still, as you could see, very much so active.

College campus is very busy right now. The - this is the second week of classes, so the start of the second week of school and anxiety is very high because information is so scarce. UNC-Chapel Hill is a very open campus for those of us who have been there and the lockdown situation is still very much so active with students, we understand, still sheltered in place in some of those buildings. They were calling this an active assailant situation with reports of

shots fired coming in shortly after the 1 PM Eastern hour. There hasn't really been an update from police since then. We've been standing by.

But shortly - just a short time ago, our producers in the control room sent me this statement from Gov. Roy Cooper, who tweeted out, "I have spoken with Orange County Sheriff Blackwood, and Department of Public Safety Secretary Buffaloe and pledged all state resources needed to capture the shooter and protect the UNC campus."

So that's coming from Democratic governor in North Carolina, Roy Cooper, a statement a short time ago. So this active assailant still on the loose right now. You're looking at video again and just shortly after 3 o'clock and you see some students there, it appears, with backpacks walking on campus with a heavy police presence, as well as ambulances in the area.

We're keeping a close eye on this and we'll update you when we have more information, Brianna?

KEILAR: Yes. And just to take a look at this video, we're seeing police there in - clearly in tactical gear, including one we can see there in the frame in - wearing a helmet.

VALENCIA: Yes.

KEILAR: We even see some of these students where they have their hands up. A lot of them, I think, taking video of what's going on. Obviously, this is a situation that is all too familiar on college campuses, although probably these students have not been through this before themselves, Nick. And certainly ...

VALENCIA: Yes.

KEILAR: ... this is something extremely out of the ordinary. I think one of the things that's going to raise a big question is the governor referring to a shooter, right? We don't have details about that, but he is referring to a shooter there.

VALENCIA: That's right. And there's a difference in the language that's being used from the authorities and the governor. They're calling this an active assailant. Those alerts that we've been getting from the university and from police, and now the governor calling this a shooter, and he's trying to protect the campus.

So, again, very fluid situation. You mentioned that - think about it, when you started college, the anxiety that goes in with starting your freshman year or even just coming back to school, these students are dealing with all of that, and now ...

KEILAR: Hey, Nick ...

VALENCIA: ... an all-too-familiar scene,

KEILAR: Nick, I'm going to stop you. VALENCIA: Go ahead.

KEILAR: I'm going to stop you for one second, because we actually, I believe, are getting in - are we getting in a picture, is that correct? Okay, not yet. We're trying to turn that around here.

But Nick, sorry to interrupt you there, to follow on what you said, there's a second tweet from the Governor who doesn't just refer to a shooter, refers to a shooting, okay? So let's be clear about this.

"My office is in communication with law enforcement and officials at UNC-Chapel Hill who are taking precautions to protect campus safety following today's shooting. This is a tragic way to start a new semester and the state will provide any assistance necessary to support the UNC community."

[15:05:08]

You mentioned it. I mean, these are students who - they've only been on campus for about a week at this point. They started last week.

So he is saying here that there is a shooting, as you pointed out, that is obviously more detail than we are getting from law enforcement at this time. But when we look at the response, right, from law enforcement here and all of these emergency vehicles, it gives us an idea of why we're seeing that.

VALENCIA: Yes. And to be clear, Brianna, there was initially reports of shots fired just around the 1 PM Eastern hour, but we haven't got an update since then. And now the language coming from police and the university officials is that this is an active assailant. They're not calling them a shooter, but the governor is.

It's still very much so a fluid situation and the scene there has changed. There was about - around the 2 o'clock Eastern hour, we saw people running from these campuses - from these buildings on campus with their hands up and now you see a lot of officers just sort of standing around talking to one another. You see crowds of students walking in the background that just walked off camera there and we talked about this being the start of the second week of college classes.

You remember, I'm sure, what it was like to start college and the anxiety that goes in with going back to school and being a freshman on campus. But this is an all too familiar scene in America. We just had what happened in Jacksonville, the nation's still reeling over that tragedy, only for us to start this week on Monday with reports of an active shooting on campus.

And that active assailant, as they're calling them, still very much so at large at this hour, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes. Look, this should be an exciting time for so many of those students who are ...

VALENCIA: Yes. KEILAR: ... beginning their college careers and here we are monitoring

something that the governor is referring to as a shooting there at the campus of UNC-Chapel Hill.

Nick, if you could stand by for us, I want to bring in CNN Senior National Security Analyst, Juliette Kayyem.

Okay. So a little different wording here, Juliette, that we're hearing from law enforcement. I think we're going to be getting some updates. Obviously, they are incredibly busy dealing with the situation, which is underway at this point in time. We see people on phones in the video.

But the Governor is talking about a shooter and a shooting here and protecting the UNC campus. And what is unclear or what appears to be clear is that whoever is responsible for this, we don't fully at this point know who it is, but they are not in custody, it appears.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's right.

So generally in these cases, just follow the law enforcement and not the political leadership. Gov. Cooper is terrific. I'm not blaming him. It's just that the language is clearly being - the language is different that we're hearing from law enforcement, and we don't know why that is. Was there - they're just talking about weaponry or an assault, that's scary enough to lead to a lockdown. So we don't know what that is.

One has to - one can assume it's a gun, but that's sort of - we will wait to see if there are victims or others that we should be concerned about. I think the bigger thing right now is just within the last hour, looking at UNC, their Twitter feed, you have a massive lockdown just within the last hour and now you do have a person that - at least the - and I just want to make sure I get this right, the UNC Police are now showing a picture of an individual that they're looking for who appears to be a student.

So you may have a very - we might have a very confined incident. I did want to go back to something that Nick was saying. Generation lockdown has gone to college. I mean, this is the same group of kids who were Sandy Hook, who got raised through Sandy Hook. The Sandy Hook kids would be nearing or in college at this stage - who are now in college.

This group, this generation that we call, unfortunately, Generation Lockdown, is now - has all the training that a nation that has not addressed the gun problem has to give them to protect them. And many colleges and universities now require before the student can get into classes or get into the dorm room, emergency contacts.

So what you're seeing is the deployment of these emergency response systems, getting to students through their phones and saying, stay put. And so this is - I don't like it, it's just the sophistication of an apparatus that has grown out of the tragedy of school shootings in America right now.

KEILAR: And what do you see when you're looking at these pictures? Hopefully you can see them, Juliette.

KAYYEM: Yes. Yes.

KEILAR: We see sort of ebbing and flowing of students coming through the scene, clearly getting to safety.

KAYYEM: Yes.

KEILAR: Some of them seem to be bringing food. I don't know if they've been in a dining area or something.

KAYYEM: Yes.

KEILAR: They appear to have been in class. They've got their backpacks and their book bags with them. What are you seeing here?

KAYYEM: Yes.

KEILAR: And what do you make of all the emergency vehicles?

KAYYEM: So these are - I mean, I'll be careful here because we certainly don't know what is meant or what might have happened before that is now contained.

[15:10:06]

But these are images that you like in the sense that these students are not getting to any unification system. They're just being told to stay outside of the parameter. They may have been told something that we don't know yet that's just getting them - they're sort of more curious than scared.

If this were a true lockdown still under place in the sense that there is a concern of an ongoing threat, those students would not be walking near this parameter quite like that. There are still students under lockdown maybe because there was a certain building that was contained and the police either believe that the suspect has left or that the threat is contained.

I'm just - sorry for reading while I'm on air, but I'm just looking at the information coming out from UNC, which we have to remind people this is our second shooting near a university in - or on a university in the last two days, school's only been in session about a week, is that UNC Police are just saying keep your distance and put your safety first and call 911.

So don't approach this individual who may very well be a student who might know the area well. In these cases, so many people are looking, we've seen before, this will resolve itself shortly because they know who the individual is. He likely couldn't get that far. They have a car type - so these are - in terms of the information available to law enforcement, this is good in the sense of ending this daily terror today at UNC-Chapel Hill.

KEILAR: And here we are looking at more pictures of police in tactical gear ... KAYYEM: Yes.

KEILAR: ... at the scene. But again, they're not walking, they're calm, that's important to note, as you did, Juliette.

KAYYEM: Yes.

KEILAR: All right. Juliette, stand by for us, if you would.

I want to get back to Nick Valencia, who is monitoring this story for us.

Nick, what do you know? Obviously, new information being released from the school, being released from law enforcement, though we're still trying to get some clear details because this is a situation that is not resolved yet.

VALENCIA: Yes. At this point, it's so fluid. We're trying to verify details so as not to alarm the public any further than we have to. But this is clearly a situation that was terrifying enough to authorities that they responded with such a huge presence, which is what we've been seeing for the last two plus hours.

But at this point, information is just so scarce. We know that students remain in lockdown. We have been hearing students who witnessed sirens going off earlier today to notify them of an emergency situation on campus. Some of them calling into the local news station and you can hear the trepidation and anxiety in their voices as we're looking at on the screen there, what appears to be a student and their parent, you would assume, putting their arm around them and some emotion.

KEILAR: The student is crying, just to be clear. She is crying as her mother is kissing her ...

VALENCIA: Yes. And, you know ...

KEILAR: ... obviously very emotional.

VALENCIA: ... this is so emotional for anyone who's a parent or for anyone who has a child to know that you send your child off. And they've been, of course, trained or - my daughter's five years old. She goes through fire drills, which are really active shooter drills and you know that these children are getting training from their teachers.

But we're hearing from these students that they never think it's going to happen to them until it does. And here we are talking about yet another shooting potentially in America here. It's just terrible to see those images because they really resonate with you when you're looking at the emotion on those individuals' faces who are clearly in fear because they don't know what happened. We're trying to figure out what's going on.

So a lot of anxiety clearly there on the campus in Chapel Hill as authorities work to figure out exactly what happened as this person of interest remains at large, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right. Nick, stay with us.

We're going to get into a short break here. Just to let our viewers know what we are monitoring here on the campus at UNC, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Police have responded to what they're calling an armed and dangerous person on or near campus. The Governor referring to a shooter, referring to a shooting. We are getting more information. We will bring this to you as soon as we are back from a short break.

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[15:18:29]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: We continue to follow breaking news out of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Police at the school are responding to what they say is an armed and dangerous person on or near campus.

KEILAR: The Governor just sending out a tweet. He says he has pledged all state resources needed to capture the shooter and protect the UNC campus.

Let's bring in former FBI Deputy Director, Andrew McCabe, back with us. We have CNN's Nick Valencia with us as well. And we have Juliette Kayyem, CNN's Senior National Security Analyst as well.

Andy, to you too, let's just be clear, we have the governor talking about a shooting, talking about a shooter. This as we know the school is in lockdown. Students are being told to shelter in place. Classes - all classes have been canceled for the day. And yet police are not saying shooter or shooting, they are saying an armed and dangerous person is on or near campus. Can you explain to us just the difference there in language and what that amounts to?

Andy, do we have you with us?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: ... discrepancy in langue could ...

SCIUTTO: Mm-hm.

MCCABE: Hello? Can you hear me?

KEILAR: Yes, we got you.

MCCABE: Can you guys hear me?

KEILAR: Sorry, take it away. Yes.

MCCABE: Okay, no worries.

So at this point, that sort of language discrepancy could be based on what the police actually know from witnesses who led to this realization that they have a threat. [15:20:00]

So if you have witnesses telling you, for instance, you have someone walking around campus who's heavily armed, they would refer to that as an armed and dangerous individual. So you may not have witnesses who have actually seen a shooting take place. It may also mean that police have not identified a victim of a shooting yet.

These are all facts that will - we'll see more light shed on these as we go further into this latest tragic example of shootings in public places and particularly at schools. It's a - it's really remarkable.

SCIUTTO: Juliette Kayyem, I imagine that TVs might be tuned there to this broadcast. If you're watching it and you're in a local area, including possibility of being a student on the UNC campus right now, what would you recommend that they do?

KAYYEM: And I have children in college - so, I mean, obviously what UNC is sending out, the police department are sending out a bye-bye. So if you're still under lockdown, you can wait. Don't be in a hurry. Don't be a hero. The lockdown protects you, but also protects first responders because they are not going to be - they don't know where the suspect is, so they don't know what kind of interactions might still unfold.

And look, Jim, as we said - so, these are sophisticated systems now. I think we sort of don't realize how bizarre, if not sad that is as a nation, but the systems of notification to students, what we call reverse 911s. Lots of schools do not allow students to register or attend classes or get into their dorm room until they have emergency information, cell phone numbers, next of kin, your parents' numbers just in case anything happens, in particular an active shooter.

You have a pretty sophisticated - and I've been following it all afternoon - communications alert system coming out of the university. It is - it stopped being active in the last 25 minutes. That could simply mean that they'll have an announcement hopefully about the end of this. They do have a picture up online of who the suspect is. They're not identifying who it is, although you can see some chatter on social media, but there is a formal picture out by the police.

So that's basically what I would say to any students who are listening, don't be curious, just wait it out and this too will end and ...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

KAYYEM: ... as I said in the earlier hour, this is generation lockdown. These kids unfortunately know exactly what this is, because we put them through elementary, junior and high school going through these processes, both trainings and real and now they're in college.

KEILAR: Yes. That's the sad reality as we are awaiting details on what has happened here with this situation at UNC-Chapel Hill. Our CNN affiliate WRAL is on scene there. They just spoke to a student moments ago. Let's listen to that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're only going to do first name here. You were in one of the buildings in here. Tell us what happened, what you heard, how this all played out.

JOCELYN: Yes. I was at the economics recruiting fair in Wilson Library and the person organizing it tells us after five minutes of it starting, hey guys, we just received an alert that there's an active shooter, so we're going to keep you guys in here for a second. And then I'm just checking my phone, and then, yes, there's an active shooter in the building right next to me, so ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is so scary. You get this one - this alert and you realize then what's going on, you see all these police outside, how did they get you out of there to make sure you guys were safe and able to come out here?

JOCELYN: They just had a single file out of the building. There was plenty of police presence available.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did they keep you up to date? Were you - do you feel the university kept you informed of what was going on or how were you learning what was happening?

JOCELYN: I was just talking to other students about it and keeping up with various news sources. I think right now is a really stressful time for the university, so they were doing their best to respond properly. But this is one of those events that you just can't plan for.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you see anyone injured or anything as you were being let out of the buildings?

JOCELYN: Thank god, no. No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just what is this like? I mean, you're a week into class and you have to shelter in place, you're going to an economics fair. This is supposed to be a good time, beginning of the year. What is this like to have something like this happen right here on your campus?

JOCELYN: I think it's sobering. It's a really strong reminder that there are certain issues that we might think it won't happen to us, but they can and they will. It's just putting in perspective how grateful I have to be for the days that I get to enjoy at Chapel Hill, for its beautiful skies and game days, and not for the tragedy that happened today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jocelyn (ph), we're so glad you are safe and able to get out of here. Your family, I hope ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:25:01] KEILAR: I mean, that student really putting it into perspective there.

She's reporting what happened as she was in the Wilson Library on campus and then sort of breaking down a little bit as she's speaking about what it's like to go through this. She said that she was at the library and after five minutes, she got an alert on her phone that there was an active shooter in the building next to her and that there was a police presence, and they filed a single file out of the building. She didn't see anything other than that, but obviously incredibly scared.

SCIUTTO: We did learn from the student that there was a campus alert for an active shooter, that that word went out.

Chief Charles Ramsey is with us.

Led police departments here in Washington, D.C. and Philadelphia, Chief Ramsey, minutes ago, I was speaking to you about another shooting in another city in Jacksonville and now we are talking about this one here. But this one's still an active situation and I wonder, as we watch the police presence there, as we watch the word being distributed to students on campus, and the still open questions as to whether the shooter is still at large or have they made any contact with the shooter.

Can you tell us what police are likely to be up to right now and focusing on?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think right now, they're just trying to get a handle on what exactly took place, who if - who is that they're looking for in this situation.

One thing that I've learned over time is that when you have a situation like that that's unfolding, information - initial information is not usually all that accurate. So I heard a lot of discussion around whether or not - using the term shooter versus shooting and so forth. But I also and I - it's hard to tell when I'm looking at this, whether or not this is old footage or if this is coming in live, but there are a lot of police officers and they're standing around. I don't see the urgency that you would see if they were searching buildings because you think you've got a shooter inside and that sort of thing.

So I'm just trying to kind of sort out exactly what it is that's going on. I'm sure they'll update us pretty soon or at least as soon as they can. But right now, it's difficult to tell whether or not this is something that occurred on campus, off campus, did someone saw a gun, were shots actually fired.

If someone had been struck, I think we would be able to see something going on that would indicate that, ambulances or something like that if there were actual victims at this point in time. I don't see any of that. That's a good sign, just the police so far.

SCIUTTO: That's interesting because we were just discussing the circumstances of the shooting in Jacksonville and that was a case where there was a shooter on campus and someone - where there's someone on campus with a weapon and tactical vest. They alerted a security officer there who responded. You wonder what led to this here. Was it eyewitness? Did they hear something? And that's an open question, one we're still trying to get answered.

KEILAR: Yes. And one of the students there said was that she got an alert that there was an active shooter in the building next to her. We had heard earlier reports from our affiliates that there were some activity in the area of the Bell Tower, which as we understand is sort of central to campus. That is very close to the Wilson Library where the student was.

But again, she didn't see anything and we haven't spoken to anyone who has, but the governor himself at this point calling this a shooting, referring to a shooter as he is pledging resources to help find a shooter and to protect UNC-Chapel Hill.

Chief, he is saying that law enforcement is talking about an armed and dangerous suspect, warning people that if they see someone they believe to be the suspect, obviously to keep their distance and to report to law enforcement.

I don't know. We should also remind people we have this sort of one vantage point and oftentimes, Chief, we are restricted in covering these kinds of events to a vantage point like this. So what are the realm of possibilities where you see they are bringing students off campus here and are these live pictures or are these from moments ago, Michelle (ph)?

These are live pictures, Chief, just to be clear. So these are live pictures that you're looking at of all of these emergency vehicles parked there and students have been trickling out here just over the minutes. What do you make of that?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, you still see some level of activity on the part of police, but I still don't see the kind of urgency that I would be looking for. But again, this is just a shot of just one little section on campus. So it's difficult to see what may be going on elsewhere.

If there is a specific building where there was an active shooter, that would be cordoned off. So the media would not have direct access to something like that at this point in time. So we don't know what's going on somewhere else on campus.

[15:30:00]

But again, the fact that students and others that we've spoken to so far have not really given any indication that they've even heard shots being fired.