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Police Search For Armed and Dangerous Suspect At UNC-Chapel Hill; Interview With Graig Meyer, (D) North Carolina State Senator: Updates On Active Shooter. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired August 28, 2023 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Students and others that we've spoken to so far have not really given any indication that they even heard shots being fired. And so again, this information is going to be unfolding. It's going to be coming out. Obviously, the governor would have information because I'm sure that he is in touch with the command post to try to, you know, get more information on what's going on.

But right now I just don't know. You could have an active shooter there. You could have someone who fired a shot and then later, you know, left the campus area. We see a couple cars now starting to leave. But we just don't know at this point. It's just too early.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It strikes me, as we look at this law enforcement turnout there, and we often see this, just a phalanx of --

(CROSSTALK)

RAMSEY: Jim, I'm sorry to cut you off. But you see them leaving there with their hands up. They are clearing buildings. So there is police activity taking place. When you just saw those young people coming out, some of them had their hands up. They are actually clearing the building that they are coming from. So there is some activity and I do see an ambulance now backing up on scene.

SCIUTTO: Well, the reason I bring it up, is that you see an enormous law enforcement presence here and one thing that, well, our recent history has taught us, right, is that this happens a lot and that law enforcement in communities around the country sadly are used to and well, they train to and are used to responding to this kind of thing.

Andrew McCabe is with us, of course, served in the FBI. You can see in can you see in this reaction here a measure of just how tuned in to this kind of threat and the way and how quickly perhaps and with what sort of number and what sort of resource that law enforcement responds to reports of an active shooter like this?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, you know, this is a well rehearsed, unfortunately, response for law enforcement now. We know as you suggested, Jim, that the time of response is absolutely essential to keep the victim countdown if you have an active shooter situation. So it's not surprising at all to see a massive response. You can see in the shot there, there are UNC, so University police vehicles, there are also Chapel Hill City Police vehicles there. I would expect there are probably also police from all kind of local departments have probably responded. This tends to bring out a massive and very quick response.

Now, we haven't heard from any witnesses that saw a shooter or a shooting take place. But if there is a photograph circulating online, law enforcement are clearly still -- you know, they've got some sort of intelligence that they're working on. And as the chief said, this sort of response is to do a very methodical clear through any building that you have any sort of witness even potentially positive identifications associated with. Every one of those buildings is going to be checked room by room, closet by closet, door by door.

So you will probably see tactical officers kind of circulating in the background. You'll see more folks leaving buildings with their hands up. And that is, you know, of course, not to treat them harshly, it's to clearly identify them as bystanders and people who are not involved in the event.

Just to put some context on it. Chapel Hill is an incredibly astute university, about 20,000 undergrads, about another 10,000 or 11,000 graduate students added to that population. It's set in just an absolute beautiful, bucolic location right there in Chapel Hill. It's hard to say, you know, and when you're there, it's hard to actually delineate where the university stops and the city begins. It's also surrounded by a residential community. So my point is the places that a lone shooter could hide or escape to very quickly are innumerable. So this search could be going on for quite some time.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And what may be good news, Andy, is we did hear from a student who was there and she had said that she got this alert that there was an active shooter in a building near her but she hadn't heard anything. That doesn't always mean anything, but just talk to us a little bit about in this sort of preliminary phase as we're trying to figure out what the information is and obviously, you know, we've been discussing how it is difficult what you hear early on is not always correct. So we are waiting obviously to find out details that we can be sure of here.

But as they are clearing these classrooms, trying to get clear information and determine exactly what happened, can you just talk a little bit about the difficulties?

[15:35:00]

Because we've seen in other school shootings, I mean, Virginia Tech comes to mind, where it took some time before we really had an idea of the scope of something. And then on the other hand, you have situations that turn out to not be much of anything.

MCCABE: That's absolutely right. And law enforcement officers know that, you know, a great percentage of the intelligence, the information that you get immediately in a crisis situation like this will turn out to be incorrect. Nevertheless, they have nothing -- there's nothing else they can do but to react to every single witness sighting, something somebody heard, something they maybe thought they saw out of the corner of their eye. Every single report like that needs to be looked into.

You will recall many of these horrific mass shootings that we have unfortunately had to cover in the last several years, it's very frequent to hear the initial reports are more than one shooter. And almost all the time it ends up being only one shooter. So law enforcement has got to act on all of that information and the burden becomes the search, right? That methodical, logical, careful search of every location, every structure. It's an incredibly intense thing to go through as a member of one of those tactical teams.

Because you literally don't know what you're going to see around every corner, through every door. At any moment, an armed gunman who has the advantage of secrecy and has a little bit of time on you, can really pop out of any corner and engage in a firefight. And that's of course what law enforcement is trying so hard to avoid.

It's an incredibly intense terrifying moment for everyone. For the witnesses first and foremost, but of course law enforcement as well.

SCIUTTO: If you're just joining us, this is what we know at this point. Reports and alerts, frankly, have gone out to students at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill warning of an active shooter. That took place some time ago. You can see -- these are live pictures -- law enforcement, enormous law enforcement reaction presence there. But you can also see students leaving campus. Our understanding classes have been closed.

The level of urgency has seemed to drop off in recent minutes. But we do not know what the status is right now. We don't know if officers have made contact with the shooter. We don't know if they know where the alleged shooter is. We're waiting for that update.

But you're just joining us now, the latest we know is an active shooter on campus and an enormous law enforcement response. We'll continue to bring you updates and the latest information as we have it. We're going to take a short break. Please do stay with us and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:42:31]

KEILAR: All right, this is happening right now at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill police have said that an armed and dangerous suspect is at large on or near the campus, a shelter in place is currently in effect. All classes have been canceled for the day.

You do see students here moving and not moving in a way where they appear alarmed. That is obviously good news.

And we have law enforcement experts telling us that, but also common sense would tell you that as well, I want to bring in Nick Valencia as we are looking for new information. It's been coming out kind of slowly. We don't fully know the scope of what is happening here. The governor has referred to a shooting and a shooter, but you have police talking about an armed and dangerous person on or near campus. Nick, what's the latest here?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Now I just reached out to the governor's office to see if they can tell us any more about this person of interest that the UNC police are tweeting about. But they're referring all questions about this person that they're tweeting about to law enforcement, so no new information coming from the governor other than from what they put out on Twitter.

But we are seeing an alert coming from the campus saying that they've canceled all classes and events for the remainder of the day. A starkly different scene from what we first saw a couple of hours ago when we were first made aware of these reports of an incident that happened on the UNC campus at around 1:00 p.m. An alert went out to students, faculty and staff and those in the area talking about an armed and dangerous person that was on or near campus.

And then we began seeing images of the scene of a heavy police presence, huge police presence, ambulances there on the scene and also images that we have become so painfully familiar with in America, students being let out with their hands up from campus building.

Those scenes quickly changed, though over the course of about an hour. And we're now seeing pictures coming in from our local affiliate WTVD, of students sort of casually walking on campus despite a huge police presence still there. Witnesses told CNN that they were in lockdown earlier this afternoon and saw armed police on campus and the incident, according to our local affiliates, was centered around the bell tower, which is a central part of campus and South Road, which is one of the main thoroughfares there through the UNC Chapel Hill campus.

As far as we understand, though, this lockdown has not been lifted. There's also a soft lockdown we understand according to local affiliate reports of middle schools and high schools in the surrounding area.

[15:45:00]

Anxiety very high though right now from these students on campus and those in the area because information is so scarce. We are hoping for an update soon from the University Police Department with more on this.

So these students on campus and those in the area because information is so scarce, we are hoping for an update soon from the University Police Department with more on this so-called person of interest and an update hopefully on the situation there on campus -- Brianna Jim.

SCIUTTO: Graig Meyer, who's a North Carolina State Senator who represents the UNC Chapel Hill area is joining us now. Greg, can you hear us, OK?

GRAIG MEYER, (D) NORTH CAROLINA STATE SENATOR: I can hear you. Yeah. Thanks for having me on unfortunate times, but glad to be with you.

SCIUTTO: No question. Unfortunate times. I wonder. Have you heard any updates on whether this is still an active shooter situation?

MEYER: Yes, I mean, so the university just released another notice that there's still a lockdown. And so I think there's been some reporting that there has been -- the suspect has been captured, but I don't think that's been confirmed yet.

Obviously, everyone in town and on campus is watching and waiting to try and understand what's going on. I hope we'll have more official word from University officials within the hour.

SCIUTTO: No question. We see what appears to be some of the law enforcement vehicles leaving there, but again, there are a lot of movements in situations like this. It's hard to make a judgment from anyone, one event or one movement of law enforcement.

KEILAR: Yes, what are you expecting -- so you're expecting to hear from school officials and obviously we are monitoring their Twitter account. We are looking at X account. We're looking at that, of the police as well. And it's slightly different what we're hearing shooter shooting versus armed and dangerous person. Students getting an alert that there was an active shooter. And yet, so far, we haven't seen reports, sir, of anyone saying that they actually heard a shooting. So we really are a little bit in the dark here. What are you waiting to hear?

MEYER: Well, you know we need a full briefing from law enforcement. I've heard from students on campus and others various reports of, you know, that there were shots that were overheard and at least one potential injury or fatality. I've not heard that anything that's more dramatic than that, but we need confirmation from law enforcement --

SCIUTTO: Sorry, you heard that from --

MEYER: -- going to 6th day on campus.

SCIUTTO: You heard that from witnesses yourself.

MEYER: I've heard that from students who are on campus, but not, not anybody who said that they had a first-hand account. I mean, there's, you know, there obviously there's lots of rumors that fly in moments like this.

KEILAR: Sure. And that that's very important to note, because what often happens -- not to say that there isn't some kernel of truth or something as we look to get answers here, but what often happens is you are obviously aware as well is that someone says something or wonders aloud at something. It gets repeated as fact and there you have someone stating as fact something that may not be true. So we're waiting for confirmation from officials on that.

MEYER: Yes, we've just gotten word that the elementary schools are finally being dismissed. So that's a good sign. You know, very, very difficult first day of class for students and teachers in our school, teachers started K12 schools today. But that's a good sign that they're releasing kids to go home from school.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I just dropped my daughter off for her first day in school. A lot of families around the country have sure done the same thing. Is it your understanding standing that they are allowing lower schools to be dismissed because they believe it's safe enough -- and again, we're speaking -- if you're just joining us now with Graig Meyer, he's the North Carolina State Senator representing the UNC Chapel, Chapel Hill campus area.

Is that your understanding that they're allowing those lower schools to be dismissed because they consider it safe to allow them and allow families to pick up, et cetera?

MEYER: I mean, I worked for our school district for 16 years and I can guarantee they would not let the kids go unless they believe it was safe. So I do think that's a very good sign and there's a sign that they believe that it's safe for families to come to school, for kids to be on the buses, et cetera. It's probably the biggest, most positive breakthrough we've had all day.

KEILAR: Senator, I do just want to note, law enforcement sources told CNN that federal law enforcement has responded to the scene. At this point, there was no information about anyone being shot, so we are still obviously waiting for some questions to be answered. Do you have any sense of when there might be a news conference or an announcement with more information about what has happened?

MEYER: My understanding is that the university is preparing to provide a press briefing, but there hasn't been a specific time that's been identified yet,

KEILAR: And according to --

MEYER: And they've canceled all classes and events for the rest of the day. But that's really, all that we've heard.

KEILAR: And according to the hospital there, which had been -- has been on lockdown, they have not received any patients from an active shooter situation so far as we are trying to get a sense of the scope of this situation.

[15:50:00]

Police searching for an armed and dangerous suspect at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. That was Graig Meyer, the North Carolina State Senator who represents the area. Sir, thank you so much for being with us -- joining us there as he is certainly awaiting other information as well.

At this point in time, we have a lot of questions and we are waiting to hear from police. We are waiting to hear from the school about what has happened here. The governor talking about a shooter and a shooting, but we are still waiting to hear any first-hand accounts of shots fired, even though students there were told, according to one of the students, that there was an active shooter situation on campus. So we are working sources. Our reporters are on this. We are getting more information and looking for information as well from the police and the school. We're going to get in a quick break and we'll be right back.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: We continue to follow the breaking news of reports of an active shooter on the campus at UNC Chapel Hill, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. Within the last two minutes, UNC police have stated, via social media, that the shelter in place order remains in place. This is now running up to three hours since the first alert went out, just after 1:00 Eastern Time.

And we now have another update and that is that UNC police have identified a person of interest. Our Nick Valencia has been following this from CNN Center in Atlanta. Nick, what do we know?

VALENCIA: Yes, a person of interest has been named and University of North Carolina Police have put a photo out of that individual on their X account. We are not showing that photo just yet to our viewers, but they have identified somebody who they believe is a person of interest. This incident going on for about 3 hours now and it is still very much so active with the lockdown situation still in place there at UNC on this second week of classes.

Classes just this began last Monday. This is the second Monday of the semester, and students are dealing with this now.

We've been looking at live images from our local affiliate WTVD and WRAL of what appeared to be a very chaotic situation early on, with the heavy police presence and included ambulances there on the scene. That has become a starkly different seen now as you see students in backpacks casually walking up and down the sidewalks there on campus. The initial report said that this incident took place at the Bell Tower area of the campus, which is the central part of UNC Chapel Hill along South Road, which is one of the main thoroughfares there on UNC.

Students describing their anxiety, saying that they are very much so terrified because there's scarce information coming out from police. We saw images of students being led from buildings there on campus hurriedly rushing away from those buildings with their hands up. Again, this scene has become very different now as we're looking at a student there in a backpack which seems to be -- who appears to be on the phone.

But this incident is still very much so active. We've heard Governor Roy Cooper tweeting about this, putting it on his X account that they're dedicating any and all resources.

But very interestingly to note here, guys, UNC Hospital -- you could see it there on our banner -- saying they've received no patients from this, quote, active shooter situation so far.

Campus police initially said that there were some reports of shots fired around the 1:00 p.m. Eastern hour. Calling this an active assailant situation, and again, this is still very much so, a fluid situation there at UNC -- Jim, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Nick, thank you so much.

And just to take people through what has been happening here over the last few hours, at about 1:00 was when that first alert went out from UNC police that there was an armed and dangerous person on or near campus. Since then, this shelter in place has remained in effect, a notice going out just a few minutes ago that that was as well, the case.

And here about an hour ago the governor referring to a shooting, referring to a shooter. But we know from police that a suspect has been at large and we are looking to pin down details. Obviously, this is a situation that is shifting and there are certainly some answers that are not yet coming to us and we're hoping to find out more information.

SCIUTTO: And if you're hearing this and you're in the area where the shelter in place is, the University Police are advising that all students go inside immediately, close windows and doors, wait until further notice and we said the most recent notice we have is that that shelter in place is still in -- is still in order. Just briefly, Andrew McCabe, former -- formerly with the FBI. You've sadly been involved in responses to multiple shooting events like this in, in your professional time. Tell us what you can glean from that latest update that the shelter in place is still in place. So it would seem to indicate they're not certain they have the shooter in custody, or not certain they've contained this.

MCCABE: Yes, Jim, well, most importantly, it would indicate to us very clearly that law enforcement is not sure that there is no longer a threat in the area. And so, until they have completely resolved this issue, whether it's, you know, a, maybe a mistaken report or something or where or you have an actual shooter on the loose, until they resolve that they're going to advise that community to stay sheltering in place, which is clearly the right thing to do.

[16:00:00]

I should say, though, that it also seems -- there were some interesting images before you went to the last break. There were clearly some tactical teams, officers in heavy tactical gear, helmets, shoulder fired weapons, but you could see them walking, you know, not with a real intensity of purpose. They had their weapons slung and clearly aren't -- weren't engaged with a suspect at that moment. So it does seem to be we're in a we're in a pause here. Where they're trying to get their hands around this thing.

SCIUTTO: Understood. We'll bring all the information as we have it. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.