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Fire in Johannesburg Kills 73 People; Work Authorization for Asylum Seekers; Alabama Attorney General Escalates the Abortion Fight. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired August 31, 2023 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

SHAN WU, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Calculate what Giuliani's team was thinking of. And he made that sort of odd, what he called a Nola (ph) motion, meaning he wasn't contesting the fact that he told falsehoods. And yet, at the same time, he was trying to pull back saying that he had the First Amendment right to make those falsehoods.

So, the damages calculation is going to go to two things. First, whether there's really all - the out of pocket kind of damages, the real reputation was being hard, they suffered problems, security maybe, even emotional distress that requires counselling. And then there's going to be the aspect of punitive damages. And that's where the really heavy hit could come for Giuliani, meant to deter his bad conduct.

And the problem for him at the moment is, he's not really arguing like it was an honest mistake or anything like that. He's saying he had a right - basically he's admitting he lied and he's saying, I had a right to lie. So, I think the damages could be pretty bad for him.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And, Shan, quickly, staying in Fulton County, there is this motion by Mark Meadows to try to get his charges moved from state court to federal court. I was wondering, could it be possible that a judge decides that some of the charges can move to federal court but some of them stay in the state court? That could get very messy very quickly, right?

WU: Right. I don't think that would happen. His -- the basis for him getting it moved is that these charges affect conduct I did within my job description. I was a federal official. States can't prosecute federal officials from doing their job. That's the crux of the argument for removal. That really means that all of his case would come or none of it would come. He wouldn't want the - some of the things I did were outside the scope of my job, therefore try me on them, but some of them were.

SANCHEZ: Right.

WU: He's not going to - he's not going to want to break it up that way.

There is a complication, which is that the judge has asked the question, if some of the -- what they call overt acts might have been within his job description and would that affect the removal question? That's an intriguing legal question. It's complicated. Off the top of my head, I don't know what the answer is to that. But the judge has asked for further briefing on that.

SANCHEZ: Complicated matters. We appreciate you walking us through them.

We should point out, the arraignment for these folks, September 6th, we're expecting a decision on Meadows attempt to get it out of state court very soon.

Shan Wu, thank you so much for the expertise.

WU: Good to see you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Rahel.

SOLOMON: All right, Boris, after the break we will go to Johannesburg with a tragic scene unfolding this morning. That's after a fire ripped through a building killing dozens of people. Up next, we will hear from a man who escaped the flames.

We'll be right back.

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[09:37:05]

SOLOMON: Welcome back.

And now to South Africa, where a raging fire ripped through a building overnight killing dozens of people. Right now the death toll stands at 73, but we know at least 50 other people are hurt. This happened in the central Johannesburg region at a building which housed hundreds of informal settlements. Now, the fire is out but now comes the daunting task of searching the building for more victims who may still be inside.

Let's go to CNN's David McKenzie. He is on the scene in Johannesburg.

So, David, what is the latest? I mean how are recovery efforts going?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rahel, the recovery efforts are going. It is a very tragic moment here in South Africa. In the early hours of the morning, and you look at this dramatic video of a fire that ripped through this building that was jam packed with mostly migrants from the reset of Africa living in these cramped quarters.

We spoke to people who said that the fire started and developed very, very fast. There have been firemen on the scene trying to save people in the early hours and then recover bodies. Bodies strewn on the streets in bags with forensic teams trying to identify them. Many are still missing, as you said. I spoke to a survivor who did everything he could to get out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WISEMAN MPEPA, SURVIVOR OF JOHANNESBURG FIRE: Listen, people were (INAUDIBLE) - they were making noise, yelling, fire, fire, fire, fire, fire. And when I woke up I actually seen the gate. I see the fire. This space (INAUDIBLE) when I enter, nothing. After that I come back to my room. Then I broke the window. When I broke the window, my head entered, but my body has not entered. The smoke was coming for me. Yes. After that, I just fell down. Then from there I don't know anything until now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKENZIE: He blacked out, came to several hours later. He was with his friends. Still missing three family members, Rahel.

An if you look at the situation, it is quite bizarre. This building was hijacked, meaning a group of gangsters took it over from the landlord and then started leasing out these rooms to migrants. Still unclear what the cause of this inferno was.

That was (INAUDIBLE) that they were -- one of the ways in and out was locked, which raises very disturbing questions. But we do know that there are buildings like this across Johannesburg, really speaking to the economic divide in this country and the desperation people have to find a place to live when there's no housing that they can afford.

Fingers are being pointed as to how this could actually happen. I'm sure there will be an investigation. But even now firefighters are walking around the scene making sure that the fire is out and they're protecting the building from looting or potentially people trying to get their belongings back overnight.

[09:40:02]

This incident, I have to say, and the massive death toll has really shocked this nation.

Rahel. Boris.

SOLOMON: Still so many questions as you lay out there, David, but a tragic scene unfolding.

David McKenzie, live for us there in Johannesburg. David, thank you.

Boris.

SANCHEZ: So, in just a few minutes, New York's mayor is holding a rally to ask for more federal help as the city tries to care for tens of thousands of migrants. The one thing he says could make a huge difference amid the influx.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: Just a few minutes from now New York City's mayor is going to hold a rally pushing the federal government to step up amid a surge in migrants.

[09:45:01]

Eric Adams and other elected officials want work authorizations for asylum seekers. According to city officials, 107,000 migrants have passed through the city since the spring of 2022. And there are currently more than 59,000 still in its care.

Let's take you to the location of that rally with CNN's Polo Sandoval.

Polo, the rally set to kick off at the top of the hour.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Why is Eric Adams so focused on work authorizations for these migrants?

SANDOVAL: Boris, because it's been an issue of utmost important, not just for New York City Mayor Erica Adams, but also for New York State Governor Kathy Hochul, who time and time again have made clear their main strategy to all of this, to bring some relief amid this migrant crisis, which is the sooner that some of these asylum seekers have the ability to legally work in the United States, then the sooner they will have a source of steady wages that can potentially allow them to pay their way out of shelters and into more long term, permanent housing.

You mentioned that key number just now, nearly 60,000 of these -- well over 100,000 asylum seekers are still in the city's care. And that is what's straining those resources. So, I think what we hear today here downtown will be Mayor Adams basically repeating much of that call. But perhaps even increasing a sense of urgency.

In fact, the location of this rally alone is certainly noteworthy downtown. Just across the street from the federal building that typically processes many of these asylum applications. So, a source close to the planning telling me that this is quite intentional. They hope to bring that message directly to the federal government to further amplify what they're saying.

And, Boris, this is important. You know, aside from what we've heard from many of the politicians involved in this, I have heard from these asylum seekers, as myself and my colleagues have been covering this for the last 18 months, that work authorization (INAUDIBLE) and keeping those asylum seekers from supporting themselves. So, you hear over and over again from officials at the local and state level that this would bring an incredible amount of relief.

Now we should mention what we've heard from the federal government as early - recent as earlier this week. The head of the Department of Homeland Security, Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, responding to that call about work authorizations and, to a certain extent, recognizing that this is an issue that could potentially help, but essentially saying that they are doing the best they can.

Nonetheless, the secretary recognizing that they will likely do more in terms of increasing man power and technology resources at the federal level to try to expedite those asylum applications as soon as possible, Boris, because I'll leave you with this. You know, I've been in touch with one particular asylum seeker out of - out of many, following his case, and he just now had an opportunity to petition for asylum and he is still waiting for that work authorization application that already has kept him waiting for well over a month.

Boris.

SANCHEZ: A challenging process, no question.

Polo Sandoval, keep us updated on what happens at that rally.

SANDOVAL: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Rahel.

SOLOMON: All right, Boris, coming up for us, Alabama already has one of the strictest abortion laws in the country. Now the state's attorney general says that he should have the right to prosecute anyone who helps a woman leave the state to get the procedure.

We'll be right back.

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[09:52:05]

SOLOMON: Welcome back.

And on the radar this morning, new numbers just out show that despite elevated inflation, consumers continued to splurge and spend in July. The PCE Index, which is the Fed's preferred inflation gauge, revealed that prices increasing 3.3 percent on an annual basis, 0.2 percent on a monthly basis. Also, first time jobless claims ticked down last week to 228,000. That's according to the latest weekly report from the Labor Department.

The mayor of Uvalde, Texas, is calling for District Attorney Christina Mitchell to resign. He also filed a lawsuit accusing her of repeatedly blocking the city's investigation into the Robb Elementary School massacre last year. Mitchell is leading the criminal investigation into the shooting and says that she plans to present evidence by the end of the year. But the mayor, Don McLaughlin, claims that she refuses to share evidence with the city's investigator.

And classes at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill are expected to resume today. That's after Monday's shooting left a faculty member dead. Students held a candlelight vigil Wednesday to mourn beloved science professor Zijie Yan, Dr. Zijie Yan, who was shot and killed on campus by a graduate student. That suspect has been charged with first-degree murder and having a gun on campus. He has not entered a plea and is being held without bond. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Alabama's Republican attorney general says he has the right to prosecute anyone who makes travel arrangements for women seeking out of state abortions. In a court filing this week, lawyers for Attorney General Steve Marshall said that providing transportation for pregnant women to leave Alabama to get the procedure could amount to a criminal conspiracy. Two women's health centers and The Yellow Hammer Fund sued Marshall last month. Keep in mind, Alabama has one of the strictest abortion bans in the country.

CNN's Nick Valencia has been following all of this for us.

So, Nick, what do these lawsuits allege?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the lawsuit alleges that Steve Marshall, the attorney general in Alabama, violated the right to free speech when he alleged that the individuals who were helping women get abortions outside of the state of Alabama can be charged with conspiracy.

Now, Marshall initially made those comments last July after the Supreme Court struck down the right to abortion in the Dobbs decision. He was giving those comments to a radio talk show. And it was after he made those comments that abortion rights groups and women's clinics, they had some concern, saying that it was difficult for them to give advice to pregnant women or guidance to pregnant women based on those comments.

Now, in this filing in federal court from Marshall, who's seeking to dismiss this lawsuit. He doubled down on those comments that he made over the radio, saying that Alabama has the right to pursue these conspiracy charges because they have outlawed abortion within the borders of the state of Alabama. And this is what he's saying in part of that filing. Saying, quote, "the conspiracy is what is being punished, even if the final conduct never occurs. The conduct is Alabama-base and is within Alabama's power to prohibit."

[09:55:05]

Obviously, there are people taking exception with this, including The Yellow Hammer Fund. They have been helping fund abortions up until these comments were made and have since pivoted to helping women get contraceptives. Now, they are saying that this is basically a bogus claim and that they cannot prosecute somebody for helping try to get abortions outside of the state because there is abortion that is legal in other states here. So, this is what they're saying is their argument in the lawsuit. "Alabama can no more regulate out-of-state abortions than another states can deem its laws legalizing abortions to apply to Alabama."

Now, a judge in this case has set a hearing to consider this motion to dismiss by Marshall for next Tuesday, and there are going to be a lot of eyes on this case, Boris, because this clearly has implications well beyond the borders of Alabama.

Boris.

SANCHEZ: Absolutely. More fallout from overturning Roe v. Wade.

VALENCIA: Oh, yes.

SANCHEZ: Nick Valencia, thanks so much for the reporting.

VALENCIA: You got it.

SANCHEZ: Rahel.

SOLOMON: Well, coming up for us, as Rudy Giuliani stares down criminal charges in the Georgia election interference case, he just lost a defamation lawsuit from two election workers in that state. Coming up, how much it could cost him, when we come back.

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