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Trump Pleads Not Guilty in Georgia; Mitch McConnell Health Concerns; Supreme Court Justices Thomas and Alito Disclose Trips Paid For By Conservatives. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired August 31, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:01:40]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Breaking this morning, significant disclosures from Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito, both of them reporting who paid for trips, lodgings and meals. We will break down the significance of these disclosures.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN HOST: Also, a scary moment for Senator Mitch McConnell, the Senate minority leader freezing for the second time in just weeks, while taking questions, the health scare now prompting more uncertainty about the 81-year-old's future.

SANCHEZ: Plus, a tragic night in Johannesburg, South Africa, 73 people dead, dozens more injured after a fire burns through a building full of families. We have the latest on rescue and recovery efforts.

I'm Boris Sanchez with Rahel Solomon. We're in for John, Kate and Sidner. And you're watching CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

We begin with breaking news from the Supreme Court, two of the High Court's justices disclosing new details about paid trips they took, just moments ago, Justice Samuel Alito acknowledging a trip to Rome back in 2022 paid for by a conservative group. We have also learned that Justice Clarence Thomas disclosed private jet trips and a vacation paid for by a Republican megadonor.

CNN senior Supreme Court analyst Joan Biskupic is following all of this for us.

So, Joan, break down the details for us. What is in these disclosures?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Sure. Good morning, Boris.

First of all, these are forms that were due in May, and both justices had gotten extension so that they could maybe take a little more care in filing them. And they have just come in.

The most important ones, I think, are the items that Clarence Thomas has listed two trips taken on the dime of Harlan Crow for speeches in Dallas, Texas, and then another trip taken on his private jet to his resort in the Adirondacks, kind of an adult playground that has so many lavish amenities that Clarence Thomas has used for summers over the last couple of decades, as had been earlier reported by ProPublica.

But what we're seeing for the first time, those trips are now being documented by Justice Thomas himself. So, he listed those. And then -- those were both in 2022, the reporting period that was covered by the new report. But then he also came back and said, in 2014, he's acknowledging a financial deal for real estate, a deal that Harlan Crow had made with his family for three properties in Savannah, Georgia.

In all of these situations, I just want to stress, Boris, the context here. There's been just so much more scrutiny on the justices, very justifiable scrutiny on the justices, and potential conflicts of interests, and perhaps wealthy benefactors influencing them in cases or just the way they approached the law of the land that we all live under.

And so -- and the fact that they also have no formal ethics code, so that's the larger backdrop. The other thing I want to mention is that, today, we also heard from a lawyer for Clarence Thomas, who said that any mistakes that the justices made were inadvertent.

And he also put out a statement that I want to mention. It's from Elliot Burke. And he said: "The attacks on Justice Thomas are nothing less than ridiculous and dangerous. And they set a terrible precedent for political blood sport through these federal ethics filings."

[11:05:09]

And what he's referring to is just all the scrutiny that has come from Capitol Hill, all the scrutiny that has come from the public and from the media about the justices potentially being influenced by big, wealthy megadonors to Republican and conservative causes at a time when the court is getting more conservative.

But -- so those are the kinds of issues that are raised by these new filings today, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Yes, Joan, I also want to zero in on a detail that caught my eye in the Clarence Thomas disclosure.

He talks about taking private jet travel as part of a security consideration.

BISKUPIC: That is the first time we have seen that in writing from the justices.

And what he said was that a trip that he took on Harlan Crow's dime in May of 2022 was just about 10 days after the leak of the Dobbs opinion. That's the case that reversed Roe v. Wade. That leak happened on May 2. I believe the trip to Dallas that's in question here was on May 12.

And Justice Thomas said that he had been encouraged, advised to take private jets when possible or private travel, rather than commercial. Now, I don't know if the other justices are doing that. I do know that he had at many other times, though, taken this travel from Harlan Crow, but it does raise the question of the justification from Justice Thomas' lawyer.

SANCHEZ: Yes, important to point out too, as you did, Joan, there is no unified code of ethics for the Supreme Court, something that Chief Justice John Roberts has been trying to coordinate, but it's been difficult for him, to say the least.

Joan Biskupic, thank you so much for walking us through that -- Rahel.

BISKUPIC: Thank you.

SOLOMON: OK, Boris, thank you.

This morning. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is trying to reassure his allies and donors that he is still fit for office after he appeared to freeze during a news conference again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Running for reelection in 2006?

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): That's...

QUESTION: Did you hear the question, Senator? Running for reelection in 2026?

MCCONNELL: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. I'm sorry, you all. We are going to need a minute.

Senator.

Benny? (ph)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Want to head outside, sir? Want to come with us?

MCCONNELL: I'm OK.

OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: The 81-year-old senator, you might remember, experienced something similar last month while speaking at the Capitol.

His office is attributing both incidents to lightheadedness.

I want to bring in CNN's Manu Raju, who joins us from Capitol Hill.

Manu, I think, on a human level, it is -- it's very difficult to watch that video. You have been speaking with lawmakers. What are they telling you?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Senator McConnell has been on the phone with some of his key allies since that incident, indicating that everything is fine, including some of the top Republicans, including potential successors of his, like Senator John Thune of South Dakota.

I'm told from his -- Thune's office that they had a conversation, and McConnell sounded like his usual self. He also phoned other key allies members of his leadership team. He also attended a fund-raiser for Congressman Jim Banks, who is running for the Senate in Indiana.

Banks told me that McConnell was sharp, was engaging. But one thing they did not discuss at that fund-raiser, what happened yesterday in Covington, Kentucky, that you just saw, that moment that -- where Mitch McConnell froze, underscoring questions that are persisting in the Senate about Senator McConnell's future.

Now, McConnell and his confidants indicate that he's not going anywhere, at least for the next year. He is expected to continue to still serve as a Republican leader. He's the longest -serving party leader in history.

But what happens after the end of next year? Will he try to become leader, stay as leader again? That is still an open question, one of which a number of senators and others that I have spoken to don't think he will continue on after the end of this Congress, a big question that still remains.

There's also questions about exactly what happened. After that initial episode in July, when he froze, some of the senators in his own conference said that Senator McConnell should provide a little bit more detail about what happens or whether or not there is a larger issue at hand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): Obviously, his first responsibility is to the voters of Kentucky.

But once you become a leader, your responsibilities obviously are with other constituents, mainly, at least in his case, 48 of his closest friends. So, that probably does call for some -- a little more -- I shouldn't say more -- call for more transparency than it would for somebody else.

[11:10:03]

RAJU: So, should he tell his 48 colleagues what happened?

CRAMER: He should tell us if something else -- something bigger is going on. And whatever he tells me, I will trust to be true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: But, so far, McConnell's office has attributed those two incidences to lightheadedness.

And they did indicate that McConnell would consult with a physician before he went to that fund-raiser yesterday afternoon, but, Rahel, no word yet about what happened at that doctor's visit, and what the ultimate diagnosis was, the underlying cause for those episodes.

(CROSSTALK)

SOLOMON: Yes, so a lot more questions, clearly.

Manu Raju live for us there at the Capitol.

Manu, thank you.

We're going to continue the conversation now.

I'm joined by CNN political commentators S.E. Cupp and Scott Jennings.

Scott, let me start with you.

You are a longtime friend of Senator McConnell's. And, as I understand, you were with him at that fund-raiser. I mean, he was just described as being sharp at the fund-raiser. I mean, from your perspective, what more can you tell us? And, also, I mean, it has to be hard to watch that video as someone who knows him.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, of course, it is, I mean, somebody I have known my whole life, just my whole adult life and care about very much.

I can tell you that, at the fund-raiser, he was sharp. He came in. He met with a large group of donors. He answered their questions. He made remarks about several policy matters that are going on. He talked about the Senate map and what's going on in the races in 2024.

So it was really business as usual. I can also tell you that I was with him the day before yesterday at a lunch. And he spoke to a fairly large crowd, he took their questions for 15 or 20 minutes and opined on a wide range of topics.

I have seen him a number of times throughout the month of August. He's had no impairment. He's made speeches, he's answered questions. He's met with reporters. He's met with constituents. And I have been there for a fair amount of this.

So, to see that video and then compare it with what I have observed with my own two eyes, which is business as usual, you know, it's hard to reconcile.

SOLOMON: Yes.

That said, the video -- I understand you're saying that he was sharp at that fund-raiser.

S.E., I want to bring you into the conversation, the video certainly reigniting these questions and the debate about whether there should be term limits.

Let me read for you for a moment a tweet. Representative Dean Phillips posted this on X. He said: "For goodness' sake, the family, friends and staff of Senators Feinstein and McConnell are doing them and our country a tremendous disservice. It is time for term limits for Congress and the Supreme Court and some basic human decency."

Do you agree? How do you see this?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I think there are a lot of good reasons for term limits and age limits, most of which having to do with government accountability, most of which are because voters deserve the best, but also to protect the legacies of these lions of the Senate, in the case of Senator McConnell and Senator Feinstein.

Whatever you think of them, they're really well-respected in their parties. And what we're talking about now, at the end of their very long, illustrative careers, are whether they are capable of doing their jobs. We're talking about their mental faculties. We're talking about their competence.

That's not how I think either of these people should go out. And term limits, in a way, protect them from having to endure these really public, humiliating, degrading, embarrassing, and from a viewer's point of view, alarming public episodes.

SOLOMON: Scott, let me bring you back.

I mean, essentially, in order to have term limits, I mean, you essentially, would have to have Congress passed legislation to give their own jobs an expiration date. I mean, could you see that happening, I mean, likelihood of that happening?

JENNINGS: Unlikely to no chance at all.

(LAUGHTER)

JENNINGS: And, look, I think we already have term limits. They're called elections. I mean, voters can limit the terms of any politician they like at any time.

They can also limit the terms of anyone they think is too old. But this is why we have elections. McConnell, by the way, was elected in '20. He's up again in 2026. I don't think he's made any announcements about 2026.

I do agree, by the way that in the 2024 election, we're going to have some conversation about the age of our national leadership. It's obviously front and center for the Biden campaign. So, it is a conversation we're going to have as a nation, but the idea that Congress would install term limits over this, highly unlikely.

SOLOMON: Yes, I think McConnell was actually being asked by a reporter about his plans for 2026 when he when he froze, if I -- if I'm not mistaken.

S.E., you made the point just in terms of voters, right? I mean, I wonder. Say, take, for example, California. The median age in California is 37 years old, where, of course, Senator Dianne Feinstein represents. In Kentucky, the median age is 39 years old. Talk to me a bit about representation and reflecting the constituency.

CUPP: Yes. Yes.

Voters across the country are younger than most members of the Senate in Congress. And a number of members of Congress have been there like 40-plus years.

[11:15:05]

These public service jobs were not meant to be career-long endeavors. And I think voters do deserve better. And I wish Scott were right. I respect Scott. Elections are not the way we impose term limits.

We both know -- Scott's very smart -- that the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, they're very controlling about who gets primaried and how much say voters actually get in electing someone new, especially against someone like Mitch McConnell or Dianne Feinstein, who've been there for a very long time.

And then they want to protect the seat. So I don't think we should expect self-term limits to be the way that this all works. I think term limits of maybe you get two terms, so it's not one and done, you get another chance to do it again.

(CROSSTALK)

CUPP: And then maybe even you got to go away for two terms, and you can run again.

But I think that will limit a lot of the power-grabbing that has taken over the public service aspect of working in the government, where staying and getting reelected is more important than fixing problems.

SOLOMON: Well, I think it's a conversation we will continue to have, of course...

CUPP: Yes.

SOLOMON: .. because, Scott, as you sort of alluded to there, I mean, if it is in fact Trump and Biden, we will have this conversation even further.

CUPP: Yes.

SOLOMON: S.E. Cupp, Scott Jennings, thank you both -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: And speaking of former President Trump, we have some breaking news just into CNN, the former president deciding to skip his arraignment in Fulton County next week.

He has entered a plea of not guilty in that election subversion case, major news, major legal implications. We will discuss when we come back on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:21:29]

SANCHEZ: We're following breaking news in the Fulton County election interference case against former President Donald Trump and a slew of co-defendants.

The former president just entering a plea of not guilty. He also waived his chance to appear in person at his arraignment, which was scheduled for next Wednesday.

Let's get to CNN Zach Cohen, who is tracking the breaking news.

Zach, walk us through the details here.

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Boris, we had largely expected Trump to try to waive his arraignment, which was scheduled for Wednesday, along with the other 18 co-defendants in this case.

And he's also entering a plea of not guilty. And so he's joining a couple of the other co-defendants who have done the same in the last few days. Most notably, yesterday, his -- former Trump lawyer Sidney Powell also entered in a not guilty plea.

But a significant moment here in this case, as Trump saying -- entering a plea in -- against these charges in Georgia, where he and these others are faced with a broad array of charges, this conspiracy, this RICO case in Georgia that essentially accuses him and 18 others are trying to overturn the 2020 election results in that state.

So, we're going to have to just wait and see how this ultimately affects plans for a potential trial going forward. We know that there are some other co-defendants, like Trump's former White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, who are trying to get the case moved to federal court, so a lot of moving parts still at play, but still a big moment in this case, as Trump formally entering a not guilty plea.

SANCHEZ: No question, a lot of moving parts.

I found it politically significant, this decision, Zach, in part because, of all the cases that Donald Trump is facing, this is the only one allowing cameras in the courtroom. And there was speculation that he might actually be in person camera saying the words not guilty out loud.

And there were questions about whether he would use, as he did with his mug shot, that clip for his campaign, because, of course, the backdrop is that he's running for reelection.

COHEN: Yes, Boris, that's exactly right.

And, obviously, the former president opting against doing that here in this case, really not seeing it worth maybe the political -- potential political benefit that could come from the messaging around the world hearing a not guilty plea in this case.

And we're also seeing an effort by Donald Trump to distance himself from the other defendants in this case. His lawyers have already made clear that he doesn't, that the former president, in most cases, doesn't even know some of these defendants.

Now, that doesn't really matter in the context of the legal -- the Georgia legal -- the context of Georgia's RICO law, but Trump really trying to make this both a political calculation and a legal calculation, as he stares down a very busy calendar here in the next few months.

He's going to face a ramping up of his primary campaign in the Republican primary, at the same time facing four different legal cases, where he's going to have to appear in court both on the federal level and at the state level in Georgia.

SANCHEZ: Zach, you noted Trump trying to create some space between he and some of his co-defendants.

He's not the only one, because Kenneth Chesebro and Sidney Powell are now taking legal steps to do that.

COHEN: That's right, Sidney Powell and Chesebro both arguing that their cases should be removed from basically the bigger batch of 19 co-defendants.

And their -- Sidney Powell's arguments are pretty interesting. In a court filing yesterday, she says: I wasn't even working as a Trump campaign lawyer or as a lawyer for Trump's behalf, even though Trump, in mid-November 2020, publicly announced that he was adding Sidney Powell to his legal team, the post-election legal team.

SANCHEZ: Right.

COHEN: But she's saying: Look, I was never working directly for the former president. I never appeared in court on the former president's behalf, and, therefore, my case should be tried separately from the president and the other 18 -- or other 17 defendants.

[11:25:05]

SANCHEZ: Yes, interesting legal maneuvering.

Again, the breaking news, former President Donald Trump will not appear for his arraignment next week, deciding to skip it, but, as Zach just reported, he does file a plea of not guilty.

Zach Cohen, thanks so much for that -- Rahel.

SOLOMON: All right, Boris, coming up for us: It was the strongest storm to hit Florida's Big Bend in 125 years. Now the recovery efforts have begun. We will have the latest. Plus, if you're planning to hit the road for the Labor Day weekend, be

prepared to pay more at the pump. We will explain why after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:30:00]