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Ukraine: Russia Hits Civilian Infrastructure, Port in Odesa Region; Now: Festival-Goers Begin To Leave As Roads Dry; Key Legal Questions On Docket This Week In Fulton County; Ramaswamy: Country "Inching In A Dark Direction." Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 04, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:01:20]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: A defense shakeup as the war with Russia enters its 19th month, Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, firing his defense minister. The President of Ukraine saying it is time to try a new approach. What this could mean for the battlefield?

Plus, stuck in the mud, thousands still trapped in the Nevada desert after intense rain left the Burning Man festival site smothered and covered in mud. Roads might reopen any moment. We're going to get you an update.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: And President Biden touting Bidenomics and slamming former president, Trump, this Labor Day in Philadelphia. But a new poll shows most Americans that were polled aren't buying Biden's message.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: A major shakeup at the top of Ukraine's military as Russia continues to launch attacks on civilian targets. Overnight, Russia launched what Ukraine described as a massive attack on civilian infrastructure and ports in the southern Odesa region. It's also accusing Russia of trying to create a food crisis with attacks on port infrastructure over the weekend.

Today, Ukraine says its forces are making further advances in its counteroffensive and liberating more areas along the southern front line where some of the heaviest fighting is taking place. All of this coming as Ukrainian president, Zelenskyy, shakes up the highest ranks of his military. He's firing his defense minister as the country enters the 19th month of this invasion.

CNN's Melissa Bell joins us now live from Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine.

So, Melissa, what more do we know about the reasons behind the firing of the defense minister?

MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Well, note that Oleksii Reznikov had done anything wrong. On the contrary, Boris, this is a man who's been widely praised for what he's done over the course of the last 19 months now. It was apparently his request that he move on to other things. But this, of course, allows President Zelenskyy to draw a line on the last - under the last few months.

There have been so many allegations, corruption scandals that have dogged the defense ministry here in Ukraine. There have been sackings. There have been resignations. There have been arrests as a result of some of these. And although none of them ever tainted Oleksii Reznikov personally, they have rather marred the whole effort, certainly in the eyes of many allies.

So, this allows him really to draw a line, again, at the request of Oleksii Reznikov himself and to bring in a completely new person to man this war effort. And apparently, what we hear is that Rustem Umerov is just the man for the job, a daunting challenge.

But this is a man who has a lot of experience. He was a business leader. He's been closely involved with the war effort, having overseen several prisoner exchanges. And, interestingly, he's a Crimean Tatar. He's actually a Muslim and not at all from President Zelenskyy's party.

So, it is an interesting choice, but he's considered extremely capable and he's going to have to be - Boris, this is a man who's going to have to keep his Western allies on board for the ever greater needs that he's going to have with regard to weaponry to see this counteroffensive through, even as he shores up Ukraine's own defense capabilities, which is what they have been doing recently, trying to create more and more drones, trying to make more and more long-range artillery so that they can continue successfully, as they've been doing, bringing this war ever closer to Russian soil, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Melissa Bell, reporting live from Zaporizhzhia, thanks so much. Omar?

JIMENEZ: Well, Boris, further east, China is signaling that President Xi Jinping will skip the important gathering of the world's 20 top economies in India this weekend.

[15:05:05]

This will be the first time a Chinese leader has missed a G20 Summit. And Xi's absence from the summit comes as tensions simmer between Beijing and host country, India, over their disputed border and New Delhi's growing ties with the United States.

Russian president, Vladimir Putin, who faces an international arrest warrant over alleged war crimes in Ukraine, will also skip the summit.

So CNN's Nic Robertson joins us now.

Nic, for starters, what does this decision by China say about the state of what might happen at this summit? How might it impact the summit, I should say?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's going to diminish the impact and any agreements that might emerge from the summit, not having President Putin there and not having President Xi is pretty significant.

Obviously, Putin can't travel because he's afraid of getting arrested for the charges of war crimes that have been leveled against him. Xi, it's not quite clear why he's choosing not to go. Could it be the tensions with India? Does he want to avoid a meeting with President Biden? He also has the opportunity to meet President Biden, of course, at the APEC Summit in San Francisco later on in the year. So the possibility of the pair meeting still remains.

But when you look at the fact that just less than a month ago, President Xi went to South Africa for the BRICS summit there, which is a sort of emerging developing nations alternative, if you will, to the G20, a summit where they said they wanted bigger nations like Saudi Arabia and some other powerful nations to join. You can see how the sort of the G7s, the G20s, that sort of old big powers are going to get marginalized by empowering, like President Xi, empowering effectively the BRICS summit.

So it diminishes what they can achieve and that unity of voice is what they're speaking about. And, of course, one of the huge items recently was dealing with COVID. But the other one has been climate change, so you don't have these big nations writing the script for the next years coming of climate change, it can be done at the COP summit, yes, but they're the big powerful nations and this will be absent.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Well, the news we have is President Xi is planning not to come, but people will be undoubtedly reading the tea leaves heading up to and likely through the summit as well.

Nic Robertson, thank you as always. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Back in the United States, after days of being stranded in treacherous, thick mud in the Nevada desert, we're starting to see some people at the Burning Man festival start to leave. You can see here in this new video, a huge caravan of vehicles making their way out. It is going to be a difficult journey in part because at this hour, officials are starting to open roads that have not been dry enough for people to begin their journeys home. Some 70,000 festival goers have been stranded in the mud for days after two to three months worth of rain swamped the area in just 24 hours.

CNN's Camila Bernal is live on the scene at the Burning Man festival.

So Camila, what does it look like where you are?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is busy, Boris. This here is what you call the exodus. And look, I spoke to someone who was inside of the city who told me things are still messy in some areas, depending on where you are. The mud hasn't fully dried up yet, so people are trying to get rides and then end up right here because what you're seeing here is a line of RVs and cars that are trying to make their way out. Again, this is what they call the exodus.

But I want to show you from above just so that you can get a better perspective with this view from up high. The line is very, very long and they're asking people not to walk, to avoid walking from the city to where I am right now because it could get dangerous. And we are being told that over the last couple of days, there were cars that were stuck for hours, people that tried to get to this area where I'm standing now and had to spend hours either walking through the mud or getting stuck in the mud via car.

I spoke to the superintendent of Black Rock City earlier today, and this is how he described the situation inside the camp.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY "COYOTE" PEREZ, SUPERINTENDENT, BLACK ROCK CITY: People are trying to get out, but this - the roads are still pretty muddy and there's still standing water. And so there's new roads that are forming around and that's just people working together to get each other out of jams.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: Now, it hasn't been easy. People have been told to conserve food, water, especially if they were going to stay extra days that they were not planning on staying. But it is also really important to point out that every single person that I've talked to has been so positive saying that they've made the best out of a very difficult situation, saying that they've enjoyed the festival.

[15:10:03]

In fact, the burn is happening today at nine o'clock local time. So that man will be up in flames and a lot of people are staying and looking forward to that. Organizers even telling people if you can, stay until tomorrow to avoid all of this traffic that you're seeing here behind me. It is going to take people hours to try to get to the highway, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Camila Bernal reporting from Black Rock Desert, thank you so much.

Omar, some people deciding to stay.

JIMENEZ: Yes, some people are deciding to stay. And as we've learned, the morale is even - they're making the most of the situation, I'll put it that way.

And I want to talk more about it on the ground in Burning Man with a festival-goer, Andrew Hyde.

Andrew, good to see you. Skies look great behind you. But as I understand, this is your 10th year at Burning Man. Have you ever seen anything even remotely like this?

ANDREW HYDE, BURNING MAN ATTENDEE: (Inaudible) spent years where it rained and this is the first time I've experienced it myself. Quite something to see. We had about six hours of rain on Friday and a little bit on Saturday and it was just an absolute mess. Couldn't move around at all, it was quite fun to see for us that really kind of were prepared and knew this could happen. But yes, kind of staggering to see a city of 70,000 people that really nobody could move.

JIMENEZ: Yes. And look, for anyone who's been to festivals in general or music festivals rather, there - it's not a guarantee that you're going to have great weather. This one seemed to stick out just because of how remote you all were and the conditions of the ground itself. When do you expect you'll be able to leave? Were you always staying or are you - are your plans kind of up in flux?

HYDE: Yes, I mean, like the unofficial motto of the festival for me, it's always, like new plan, like throw everything out, we've got to identify everything that's going on right now. And it's much more colorful description out here of that.

But yes, I mean, today was kind of the day we always had planned on leaving. I think we're going to probably break tomorrow morning. We're kind of looking at the roads, looking at everybody else. Safety is a big concern for the organization. So we're kind of listening to the official channels on that and not exiting until they kind of give us the green light that it's good for everybody and just looking - it's drying out. You can see the sun's out behind me. It's beautiful. We're all enjoying it and we're all super high.

You'll kind of hear in the background occasionally a car will get unstuck and there's a loud scream and cheers or people are saying goodbye. They've formed these really tight bonds with other people. You kind of live through a situation in which you couldn't move and that's weird (inaudible) not many people get to experience that.

JIMENEZ: Yes. And look, today is the day where I don't know if you've been able to see, but we've been showing images of what's essentially a mass exodus of people leaving today. Once conditions were even hinted, hey, you can actually probably get out there. Was there a rush to get out on the road? How were people interpreting that opportunity?

HYDE: Yes, we love the gate perimeter (ph) and exodus crew out here and they've done a fantastic job. I mean, you want to get out. You've got this one road and all of these vehicles have to fit on this one, basically, county road going into Gerlach.

So, it's well communicated, but I mean some people had to get out. Some people had real life to get to and some people like me had the opportunity to stay an extra day and just kind of hang out and just be in the desert for a little bit longer. It's a barren wasteland with some of the most amazing art in the world, that's why we come out to Burning Man. And Black Rock City is a home for a lot of us. It just - it kind of elevates what we think of what we can do as humans and we love to be out here.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Andrew Hyde - real quick, you've been here 10 times. You're going to be back for 11?

HYDE: Oh, absolutely, without a doubt.

JIMENEZ: Yes, I figured that would be your answer. Yes. Andrew Hyde, thank you so much. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Still to come, a judge could soon rule on Mark Meadows' bid to get his Georgia election case moved to federal court while Donald Trump and his co-defendants prepare to be arraigned in the coming days.

Plus, another day like January 6th. That's what Republican candidate Vivek Ramaswamy says will happen if Trump's legal challenges hamper his 2024 bid. We're going to discuss that.

And later, two people accused of causing irreversible damage to a portion of the Great Wall of China. Listen to this, they used an excavator to breach the wall. They said they wanted to create a shortcut at the Great Wall of China. All of this still to come on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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[15:18:27]

SANCHEZ: It's a pivotal week in the Georgia election interference case. On Wednesday, the remaining co-defendants will be arraigned in Fulton County. Former President Donald Trump will not be there. He already pleaded not guilty to his charges, but he will be watching closely what happens with his former chief of staff.

Remember, Mark Meadows is trying to move his case from state to federal court. And a judge is set to rule on that potentially before this week's arraignment.

CNN's Sara Murray is tracking all of this.

So Sara, walk us through what could happen this week.

Well, first, as you said, we're waiting for this judge to weigh in on Mark Meadows' bid to move his case to federal court. He's basically argued everything he did around the 2020 election, perhaps to try to overturn the results in Georgia, as the district attorney has alleged it was actually related to his duties as White House chief of staff.

So a judge is going to weigh in on whether that argument is successful and Meadows can move this to federal court. We know the Trump team is watching that closely. Donald Trump hasn't actually made an attempt to move his case to federal court yet, but we expect they're watching to see how this Meadows situation plays out before they do that.

And then, as you pointed out, on Wednesday, there was set to be a big arraignment with 19 defendants. Most of these defendants have now put in a piece of paper essentially saying, I'm going to waive my right to an arraignment. I'm going to enter a not guilty plea. That's what Donald Trump has done and that's what Rudy Giuliani, his personal attorney, has done.

We have several holdouts still we have not heard from yet, Mark Meadows is one of them. He's probably waiting to see if a judge intervenes first, John Eastman, Jeffrey Clark, other big names who have not yet entered their plea.

But again, they still have a little while. We may see a flurry of these pleas and waivers getting entered tomorrow morning.

[15:20:04]

And then the last thing we're waiting for later on this week is the special purpose grand jury, which did the brunt of the investigating in this case. A judge is planning on unsealing their report. So we're going to be looking later on this week for one, does that actually become public. And two, are there any discrepancies between who the special grand jury thought should be indicted and who the district attorney actually decided to bring charges against.

SANCHEZ: Really fascinating details together from that. Also, while Trump had probably or Trump hasn't moved to try to motion to get his case moved from state court to federal court, he has moved, as have others, to try to sever his case from the rest of the co-defendants. What's the status of that?

MURRAY: Yes, that's right. Donald Trump's team has made very clear they have no interest in going to trial with any of the other people who are mentioned in this case. The state court judge has sort of said, I'm going to wait until everyone gets their pleas entered. Everyone waves their arraignments or shows up for arraignments. And then essentially, I'm going to figure out how I'm going to organize all of you. =

A number of other folks have also put in motions to sever saying we don't want to go to trial with anyone else. So they're going to have to figure out how they're going to wrangle all these 19 defendants.

SANCHEZ: Yes, Trump wants to delay some of these other folks like Kenneth Chesebro and Sidney Powell.

MURRAY: Right.

SANCHEZ: They want a speedy trial. They want this in court by October.

MURRAY: Yes, they want this over with essentially as quickly as possible. And they, too, don't necessarily want to go to trial alongside Donald Trump.

SANCHEZ: Sara Murray, thank you so much for the reporting. Omar?

JIMENEZ: A lot to keep up with. Now, as these criminal cases against Trump advance and those proposed trial dates inch closer amid a heated 2024 campaign, the tensions keep rising. And we already know threats against judges and officials tied to these Trump cases have increased.

And now Trump ally/primary challenger Vivek Ramaswamy says he fears we're on a dangerous path.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIVEK RAMASWAMY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think that many of these prosecutions against Donald Trump are outright, downright politicized persecutions through prosecution. I think we continue to set a dangerous precedent. I do not want to see us march to some kind of national divorce. And I am worried, George, that day by day we're inching in a dark direction for this country. I do not want to see another day like January 6th in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: So lots to talk about there, let's discuss it with Larry Sabato, the director for the University of Virginia's Center for Politics. Larry, I'll start with that latest point. I mean, do you agree that we are heading down a path for another January 6th or something similar?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UVA CENTER FOR POLITICS: Well, I hope not, but there's certainly a reason to worry, because it's a matter of intense disagreement and intense extreme polarization between a good bit of the parties. Most of it, I'm sorry, it's not a both sides situation.

Most of it due to the Republican Party and the large Donald Trump MAGA base. They deserve the lion's share of blame and Mr. Ramaswamy is part of the problem. He has been all over the lot about Donald Trump.

On January 6th 2021, he thought it was a terrible thing and that Donald Trump had done the wrong thing. Now he's if not in favor of what happened then, excusing Trump and calling it bad judgment rather than criminal activity, which it was and I believe will eventually be shown to be.

So it's a matter of having people be responsive and responsible as they're describing the situation. Everyone's not equal, everything's not equal and both sides-ism only adds to the problem.

JIMENEZ: And look, heading into a campaign, responsible statements aren't always the mantra for people who are trying to get elected. And that part is what I want to talk about, is that is some of this self- fulfilling prophecy of sorts and that some of the same folks who are defending Trump and attacking these courts are essentially nudging down the path by legitimizing some of the outrage and potentially pushing people toward something worse. Is that a dynamic that you're seeing as well?

SABATO: Oh, absolutely. If you go to what was formerly known as Twitter, I guess we're calling it X these days, you'll see they're on there every day encouraging one another, outraging one another. Minor things will set them off. And a lot of these statements border on the edge of violence if they don't go over the edge.

More of that can only cause problems as we move into the actual campaign season. Everybody thinks we're in the campaign season. It's only going to get more intense in the fall and throughout 2024.

So, yes, I think you made a good point. We can talk ourselves into this and it's incumbent on all of the candidates, including Mr. Trump, to tone down what they say and also what their supporters say. And look, one of the things that Trump and some of his allies have said, likely in an attempt to delegitimize the process a little bit, is that Americans don't care about this.

[15:25:07]

They care about real issues. And look, we have seen the impasse in the midterms, for example, economy and abortion were among the top issues pulled by voters. But does that necessarily mean that Trump's legal troubles won't matter at all to the American people?

SABATO: Oh, I think they will matter in a general election. Actually, they're mattering in the Republican primary. They're helping him. They're stirring up the MAGA base and they're even more intense than they usually are. And maybe some Republicans who are conservative but not really MAGA people are also being dragged along into Trump supporting voters because of the fact that they think this is all political, which it most certainly is not.

But a general election is very different. And Donald Trump, having been indicted four times with over 90 counts and all of the other controversies that come with Donald Trump, the vast majority of Democrats, almost a hundred percent, very close to it, plus a sizable majority of independents are simply not going to buy that Donald Trump should be rewarded with another four years in the Oval Office.

As congresswoman - former congresswoman Liz Cheney said, he should never even be allowed to visit the Oval Office again.

JIMENEZ: And look, as we get into 2024, we are going to end up in situations where a campaign is ongoing, and he is going to be in court. And it is going to set up that split screen for some of those independents that you just mentioned.

Larry Sabato, thank you so much for joining us.

SABATO: Thank you, Omar.

JIMENEZ: Boris?

SANCHEZ: Coming up, defense attorneys for Alex Murdaugh, the man convicted of shooting and killing his wife and son, announce they will file a motion for a new trial. We have all the details just minutes away.