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Manhunt Continues in Pennsylvania; Special Counsel Focuses on Federal 2020 Probe; Jill Biden Tests Positive for Covid; Kim Jong-un to Meet with Putin. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired September 05, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:59:55]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A CNN exclusive. The investigation is growing. Special counsel Jack Smith seeking new information and new witnesses possibly connected to efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

[09:00:07]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The first lady has Covid again. President Biden is so far testing negative. We've got the very latest from the White House on whether and how this could impact the president's big travel plans this week.

BERMAN: Breaking new developments in the hunt for an escaped killer. Police say they have new photos from overnight, and they are expanding the search area.

Sara is off today. I'm John Berman, with Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: And some big moves in that already huge search for the escaped killer in Pennsylvania. And that is where we begin this morning. We just learned moments ago from state police that Danelo Cavalcante, he's on the move, and the search area is now expanding. They released new security camera images of what - of how he was spotted overnight. These photos are coming from an area of a vast botanical gardens, pushing the search area to move and forcing authorities also to close area schools as a result.

Let's get over to CNN's Danny Freeman. He's there with the very latest.

Danny, we just were hearing from this press conference. Tell us more of what we learned and what it means.

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, this press conference just wrapped up a few moments ago with Pennsylvania State Police and Chester County officials.

What we have learned is, as you said, this manhunt has expanded. Initially over the weekend we were told by law enforcement officials that the bulk of the search operations were really centered about two miles south of the Chester County Prison where that inmate, Danelo Cavalcante, broke out back on Thursday.

But then, overnight, police learned that this man, Cavalcante, was actually captured on trail cameras outside of the initial two-mile search perimeter in Longwood Gardens. And you mentioned it, Kate, it's a popular tourist attraction in the area. It's more though than a botanical garden. It's really 200 acres of really beautiful, lush gardens, but also there are open meadows, there are also winding trails as well. And it was a private camera on one of those trails that actually captured him twice.

And this garden, this - again, this vast, expansive garden, it's really fairly close here. It's only about five miles aways from the prison. So, that is what state police, they're saying, is the positive message here, that he has not gotten that far. And they believe the pressure that they've been putting on him throughout the course of the weekend and Monday has been here. But, again, we got new pictures as well from this press conference.

I want you to take a listen to what Lieutenant Colonel Bivens said about this picture. We'll talk about it more on the back end.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. COL. GEORGE BIVENS, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: Early this morning we were notified by security at Longwood Gardens that they had trail camera photos taken on their property which appear to be Cavalcante. This area is just south of the perimeter. Investigators quickly examined those photos and we can confirm it is Cavalcante. The photos confirm that Cavalcante has not changed his appearance, but also that he has obtained a backpack, a duffle/sling type pack and a hooded sweatshirt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: And you can see these photos right here, really eerie. These trail camera photos, you can see Cavalcante. He appears to be shirtless, again, carrying that backpack. Still it seems, though, wearing some of those prison-issued pants at this moment.

Now, we also got a few other updates about what state police believes Cavalcante is thinking at this moment. They say they believe that he is winging it. It doesn't appear that he has any cashes or any stored materials that he's getting. And, again, they are taking that as a positive sign that they're closing in on him.

But the challenge here, Kate, is that this whole area, there's a lot of woods. There are creeks. There are cornfields. Like I said, Longwood Gardens is huge itself. The challenge is, as police have said, there are a lot of places to hide as this manhunt continues.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. But key that they have this video. They think - they - they're describing it as almost a positive. They think the pressure that they've been putting on him is working. It's great that you're there, Danny, thank you so much. John.

BERMAN: All right, with me now, CNN chief law enforcement analyst John Miller.

John, new pictures of Danelo Cavalcante, and a new search area. What's the most important thing here?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: So, the good news is, things that were suspected and speculated on that he had a carefully planned escape and a network of associates on the outside and could be making his way to the border and support in cash and cars, not true. The bad news is, he did manage to get out of the perimeter that was their main search area, which was apparently a small area. But that's allowed them to shift the perimeter to where they know he was just hours ago.

And he doesn't have much going for him.

[09:05:01]

You know, you can tell by -- he's managed to pick up some clothes, a backpack, some items that he either found loose or was able to steal in a structure or a car. But he's not set up to last very long.

BERMAN: He got out of the first perimeter. And the police, they weren't brushing over that, but I don't think they emphasized that. He was able to slip through the perimeter they had first set. They're searching in a new area now.

And as you mentioned, he has stuff. He has a backpack. Does that indicate that he's been able to get inside a house maybe or a car?

MILLER: It's a strong suggestion that he either got into a car or a house. Somewhere where someone doesn't know he took things because it's not a reported theft, you know.

BERMAN: It was a holiday weekend.

MILLER: Right. So - and, you know, that - that can be a suburban area or a rural area, depending on what block or perimeter you're in there.

BERMAN: They closed some area schools, which, look, I'm a parent. I have to image that would be pretty alarming if I knew that my child was in a school and they felt it wasn't safe enough to have the school open. What does that tell you about their concerns?

MILLER: Well, it tells you that they know that Cavalcante has no upside to not be a desperate criminal. If he's caught, he's going away for life. He was already sentenced for a murder where his weapon of choice, a knife, was used 38 times on his girlfriend. Police are worried about a confrontation or him running into a residence or a school or encountering a child. So, this is an abundance of caution. And probably largely on the part of, you know, the public saying, well, until he's caught, do I want my children walking back and forth to school and so on. BERMAN: All right, I'm going to have to let you go, so let me put

this, you know, in a fine point here. Does this feel like the end moments of this search? They've changed the perimeter. They have this video, that's not very old at all. Does this indicate they are very close maybe to taking him into custody?

MILLER: I think you need to compare it to apples to apples. You know, the hunt for John Bernam (ph) back in July lasted about the same length of time. I think he got out on July 6th and was captured on the 15th. And he was a guy with military training, survival skills, preset up caches hidden in the woods. Danelo doesn't have those things. So, I don't expect this to be a long hunt, just a frustrating one because, you know, they want him back.

BERMAN: All right, watch this space. John, I'll let you go work your sources. Keep us posted over the next few minutes.

MILLER: All right.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

Also this morning, a CNN exclusive. Yes, a trial date has been set for the federal election subversion case against Donald Trump, but, no, that does not mean the investigation is over. In fact, CNN has learned that it may be growing.

A grand jury is still meeting and the team, led by special counsel Jack Smith, has been focused on the activities we're now learning of former Trump lawyer and current codefendant in Georgia, Sidney Powell. Sources say that Smith specifically wants to know how funds -- how money raised off of baseless fraud claims were used to pay for alleged attempts to breach voting systems in several states that Joe Biden won.

CNN's Paula Reid has more details on this CNN exclusive for us. She's joining us now.

Paula, tell us more of what you're all picking up.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, when the January 6th indictment was filed by the special counsel, there was some surprise that only former President Trump was charged. And it appears that this case was - wasn't designed, it was narrowly tailored with the hope that they could bring it to trial before the 2024 election. But it included these specific descriptions of six co- conspirators. And the question that has really loomed over this case for the past month has been, will any those people be charged. And that's what our colleague Zach Cohen and I really sought to try to uncover in this reporting.

And what we've learned is that over the past few weeks special counsel investigators have been speaking to witnesses and they have been asking about some of these coconspirators. They've been asking a lot of questions about Sidney Powell. She's the attorney who was involved in pushing some of these claims of fraud. And we learned that they've asked witnesses a lot of questions, starting with whether Powell was able to present any evidence of these claims of fraud. And we're told that these witnesses have told investigators absolutely not.

But then they were also interested in how these claims of election fraud were used to fundraise. They're specifically interested in Powell's nonprofit, Defending the Republic, because we know throughout the investigation there have been a lot of questions about whether these lies were used to then fundraise, right? Could potentially be charged as fraud.

We also know that this nonprofit used some of its money to help breach voting systems in four states that now President Biden won. So, it's unclear Powell or anyone else will be charged, but it shows the special counsel is still hard at work.

[09:10:01]

And even though our initial impression was that perhaps we'd see this really narrow case that the federal level and then this far more broad case in Georgia where, of course, Powell and others have been charged. But according to this reporting, investigators, they're still hard at work, they're still gathering evidence and it is possible that additional charges could be coming.

BOLDUAN: That's great reporting.

Paula, thank you so much for that.

Joining me now for more on this is criminal defense attorney Caroline Polisi.

It's great to see you, Caroline.

So, let's start with this, you know, exclusive reporting that Paula and Zach has put together, which is, it's not only is the federal election investigation continuing, but now we're learning it's focusing on this money raised and money used to try to reach those votes systems in a handful of states. On its face, what does it tell you?

CAROLINE POLISI, FEDERAL AND WHITE-COLLAR CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it tells you that contrary potentially to popular belief, Jack Smith is continuing to work this case, work his sources. You know, it happens quite frequently that prosecutors supersede indictments to add more co-conspirators. The theory went, well, Jack Smith is narrowly tailoring, you know, this initial indictment so that he can move to trial quickly, trying only one defendant, in this case, hopefully to get if it in before the election. However, it appears that, you know, this happens all the time.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

POLISI: He's continuing to beef up that case. And we might see more indictments come down. BOLDUAN: I mean that's exactly right. I mean the charges that we know

of right now against Donald Trump and the federal election probe, they are based on three criminal statutes, conspiring to defraud the government, conspiring to disenfranchise voters, and corruptly obstructing a congressional proceedings.

Now that we - if you add in kind of this additional line of inquiry that sounds, you know, like it is expanding, what -- how does it fit into the bigger criminal investigation then?

POLISI: Yes, those sound like fraud charges, sort of wire fraud, things of that nature.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

POLISI: I think Sidney Powell is going to be front and center on this. The Coffee County issue, you know, is sort of always - always been looming, and you can read about that in the Georgia case, right?

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

POLISI: So you can kind of get a fuller picture in that RICO case of what potentially the federal case could look like.

BOLDUAN: So then let's talk about another co-defendant if we're going - let's -- focusing in on the Georgia case. A co-defendant in Georgia, Mark Meadows, he's waiting for a final decision here. I mean last week in court he tried to make his case to convince a judge that as Trump's White House chief of staff, anything that he was involved in, be it illegal or not, illegal if you will, to put it pretty plainly, was part of his official government duties. What is going to g into the judge's decision here? It could come today.

POLISI: Yes, really, really interesting legal questions here. Some of which have not been tested in court.

BOLDUAN: Right.

POLISI: Meadows' position, you know, he took the stand, which was a bit of a gamble in his own - sort of to make this case for removal. I will note, it's a lower bar for removal than just the, you know, the overall defense of immunity.

BOLDUAN: OK.

POLISI: Essentially what he's saying is that, you know, he admitted that these were political acts, which may come back to haunt him. Fani Willis is arguing that, you know, that type of behavior is actually barred under the Hatch Act and, therefore, this political behavior could not have been in his official capacity. And that's the standard, Kate, whether or not the actions that he took were in furtherance of his official capacity as chief of staff. So (INAUDIBLE).

BOLDUAN: This decision with regard to Mark Meadows is - has - could have -- means more than just the future of Mark Meadows' case. The way that it's kind of been seen is that you've got 19 co-defendants in Georgia, including Donald Trump, and this decision, if you move it into federal court, could impact all of them. Does that fact weigh on the judge in making this call?

POLISI: Absolutely. It's still an open question whether or not if Meadows gets this removal, if he wins this case, whether all 19 defendants will then be kicked into federal court. As you know, we've seen other defendants move to sever their cases.

BOLDUAN: Right.

POLISI: Some defendants invoking their speedy trial rights. Some of these cases -

BOLDUAN: To speed it up. Yes, exactly.

POLISI: Exactly. Are set to go to case - to go to trial in Georgia at the state level. So, there's a lot of open questions in the air. I don't know that we will see this getting to trial any time soon.

BOLDUAN: Let me - let's get a blast from the past. Like similar related but not - similar but similar - separate but related. Peter Navarro.

POLISI: Right.

BOLDUAN: He has a trial that's starting today on charges of - that he's been charged of being - held in contempt of Congress. This is for stonewalling the January 6th Congressional Committee that, obviously, has since disbanded.

Now that a judge has made the statement essentially that his claims of executive privilege don't hold up here, what defense does he have now as he - this heads to trial?

POLISI: Well, Kate, I mean this has really -- this really has really stymied any potential defense that Navarro has. It's very similar again remembering - recall back Steve Bannon was indicted on similar counts of contempt of Congress for defying these, you know, select committee subpoenas and deposition dates.

[09:15:01]

You know, he really has no defenses at this point. It's going to be a lightning-fast trial. This - he has already previewed, this will be an issue on appeal, the scope of executive privilege, testimonial immunity. Judge Mehta had sort of a viral quote in his ruling that Navarro's evidence put forth was weak sauce and that, you know, he was barring - I know it's great - but he barred basically - he said, this is an issue of law that I'm going to decide in my gate keeping capacity, not an issue to pact - fact to put forth in front of the jurors, even to make that argument.

So, I think it is a thorny legal issue. Both sides have acknowledged that. We will see it go up on appeal. Steve Bannon's case is already at the appeals level.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Well, and, you know, just to put it in layman's terms, it's looking weak sauce.

POLISI: Yes. Exactly.

BOLDUAN: Good to see you, Caroline. Thank you.

POLISI: You too.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: That's a second year law school term, weak sauce.

BOLDUAN: Right. Exactly.

BERMAN: All right, a new warning from U.S. officials as intelligence suggests that North Korean Leader Kim Jong-un may soon travel to Russia.

How one of the most notorious serial killers own drawings may have helped police identify another victim.

And why thousands of Airbnb rentals will disappear from the popular site today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:22]

BOLDUAN: First Lady Jill Biden is quarantining at home today after testing positive for Covid. The White House says that she is currently experiencing only mild symptoms and she's staying in Delaware to recover. According to the statement also from the White House, President Biden has so far tested negative for the virus.

CNN's Sanjay Gupta, he's joining us now for more on this.

Sanjay, what else are we learning about the first lady's diagnosis?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, those are the big things. It was mild symptoms. The president has tested negative. She's 72 years old. And one of the things to keep in mind, Kate, is that there is some regular cadence of testing for those who come in contact with the president. So, you know, people around him are getting tested regularly. She was tested and found to be positive.

Again, mild symptoms, but one question we get all the time is, what does isolation mean at this point for her or for anybody. And when you look at this chart, basically the first five days are when you're thought to be the most infectious, most likely to spread. That timeline begins the day after you develop symptoms. So, if you hadn't been tested a couple days into your symptoms, you would back that timeline up till the first day after you develop symptoms. And then, you know, you can - you don't have to test at the end of five day, but if you do test at that point, you can come out of isolation without a mask. If you are still positive or if you haven't tested, then you need to wear mask days six to ten. That's the - that's the recommendations from the CDC. So, again, no testing sort of recommended at the end of five days, but

if you do it, then you sort of can come out of isolation completely.

BOLDUAN: And, Sanjay, this also offers up an opportunity to talk about what - if any -- everywhere in the country is experiencing right now, which is another summer surge of Covid. What are you hearing and what are you learning about - about this recent surge and also this new variant that's being launched?

GUPTA: Yes, so, you know, I mean, I think that there's - there's clearly an uptick. I don't know that we can even call it a surge at this point, but the numbers have certainly gone up. And, you know, we can compare this to this time last year, different points in the pandemic. The numbers have gone up in terms of hospital admissions. One thing that I will tell you, Kate, it's hard to get real numbers in terms of how much Covid is out there because there's not as much testing that's going on. A lot of the testing that is happening is happening in people's homes, not being reported.

But look -- take a look there at that line graph. I don't know how well you can see that.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

GUPTA: But the far right of the screen there, you saw a little uptick there, but it's about half or so of what it was at this time last year. So, we kind of got to see where that goes over the next several months.

We will expect it to go up as the weather gets cooler and dryer, but compared to September of last year, compared to previous points, it's thankfully still a little low.

Another thing that we often look at is just how much Covid is in the waste water out there. That's sort of an early warning system. And we do know there's more Covid in the waste water than there has been in several months now. But it's starting to sort of flatten out as well. So, these are the early warning systems, you know, Kate. Keeping an eye on them. There is an uptick. But, thankfully, at this point, it doesn't look like there's this significant surge.

BOLDUAN: That's great to hear.

Sanjay, it's always good to see you. Thank you.

GUPTA: You too.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: All right, it is a meeting that could have major implication. U.S. officials are warning that North Korean Leader Kim Jong-un may visit Russian President Vladimir Putin very soon. It's all part of a potential deal, which North Korea would supply Moscow with weapons for its war on Ukraine. Officials say arms negotiations between the two countries are, quote, actively advancing.

CNN's Katie Bo Lillis following this with all the latest developments.

What are you learning?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: So, John, still lots of questions here, but it's possible that this meeting in between the Russian president and the North Korean leader could take place at an economic forum scheduled to take place in the Russian port city of Vladivostok next week. It comes as Russia has fewer and fewer friends on the international stage willing to provide support for its war in Ukraine, in particular friends that are willing to provide hard military support.

We know from U.S. officials, for example, that China, even as it has declared a no limits partnership with Russia, has stopped short of providing lethal military assistance to Russia's fight. And this certainly is not the first time that Russia has sought weapons from North Korea. U.S. officials made public last year that Russia had attempted to purchase artillery ammunition from North Korea, in particular for use by the Wagner group for its fight to try to claim the city in the easts of Bakhmut. Not clear how much of that ammunition and those munitions actually made it to the battlefield, in large part because U.S. officials say the Biden administration chose to declassify and make public details of that pending deal and were able to disrupt it.

[09:25:11]

Now, here we are, a year on, and Russia is yet again seeking ammunition and other munitions from North Korea.

At this point, U.S. officials seem to suggest that the scope of munitions that Russia is seeking could be much broader than just artillery ammunition that they had sought in the past. And so some signs that this meeting is likely to go forward. Defense minister -- Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu traveled to North Korea just last month in an attempted to convince Kim to provide these munitions to Russia. And we do know that Kim and Putin exchanged a series of letters after that engagement.

So, U.S. officials, you know, are concerned about this. Obviously, they see this as sort of a symbol of how much effort Russia is expending to try to get these sort of additional munitions to the battlefield. And we will - we will wait to see sort of what comes out of this potential meeting, possibly as soon as next week, John.

BERMAN: And they may have a growing shopping list of things that they want to be sure.

Katie Bo Lillis, excellent reporting. Thank you very much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: And also coming up for us, after hundreds of convictions related to the insurrection, one man is headed to court today and could be slapped with the longest sentence yet, more than three decades behind bars potentially. What's expected in court. We'll have that for you.

Also, the Senate back to work today. Top of the agenda, trying to keep the government open and avoid another government shutdown. Here we go again.

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