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Police Say, New Surveillance Cam Photos of Escaped Killer in Pennsylvania; Sources Say, Special Counsel Focusing on Fundraising Voting Equipment Breaches in Federal 2020 Probe; U.S. Officials Say, Kim Jong Un May Meet With Putin for Arms Talks. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired September 05, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Police have just announced that he's been spotted on the surveillance camera in a botanical garden. So, why authorities are hopeful they are now closing in on him and why they're also closing schools today.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A CNN exclusive, Special Counsel Jack Smith's 2020 election probe not over just because a trial date is set for Donald Trump. In fact, there are signs it is growing, a new focus on the money.

BOLDUAN: And North Korea's Kim Jong Un reportedly getting ready to soon travel to Russia to visit in person with President Vladimir Putin. What Russia wants from North Korea and why Ukraine should be paying such close attention.

Sara Sidner is off. I'm Kate Bolduan with John Berman. This is CNN News Central.

This morning, the manhunt is expanding for a murderer who escaped from a prison in Pennsylvania. Authorities are now saying this morning that the killer who was spotted by a security camera south of the perimeter of the previous search area.

Police were originally focused on a two-mile deeply wooded area where they believe Danelo Cavalcante was hiding. Two school districts have also been closed today due to the expanding search area.

CNN's Danny Freeman has the very latest. And, Danny, he has been missing and on the run for days now. What more are you learning from police?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kate, that's right, six days now he escaped from this prison behind me in Chester County back on Thursday morning. And then since then, this all-out manhunt has happened in this area.

Now, the new information, Kate, that we got, which you just referenced, is that this manhunt is expanding. Over the course of the weekend, police have said very emphatically that they believed he was in a two-mile radius, just a little bit south of where we are at the prison right now. But then we learned this morning that that has expanded a little bit further south. Now, we're about five miles away from this prison.

And what's particularly important, Kate, is they're searching this area of Chester County called Longwood Gardens. It's a popular tourist destination. And the reason they're searching this area in particular is because last night, at around 9 30 and a little earlier at 8 30 P.M. as well, they captured Danelo Cavalcante on those trail cameras that were stationed in Longwood Gardens.

And you can see the picture is somewhat eerie. You can see Cavalcante, he is not wearing a shirt in one picture. He's carrying what seems like a duffel bag in another, still, though, it seems wearing the prison-issued pants.

But what police have been pointing to is that because he's got the duffel bag, there's also another photo where it seems he has a hooded sweatshirt, they're saying that it's clear he has gotten into some buildings or perhaps a car, but they still believe he's winging it.

And, Kate, just to drive home why police believe that, take listen to what one person in this neighborhood said about actually encountering Cavalcante a couple days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN DRUMMOND, ESCAPED KILLER BROKE INTO HIS HOME: I woke up my wife. I said, hey, I think there might be somebody downstairs. You know, get on the phone.

What I decided to do was flip the light switch on and off, you know, three or four or five times, pause, and then he flipped the light switch from downstairs three or four times, which was the moment of like, oh my God, this guy is down there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: I mean, just hard to imagine. Remember, just in the past few weeks Cavalcante was convicted of first-degree murder, he was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole, and then can you imagine potentially seeing him in your home.

Now, the one thing that police have been emphasizing is that it does appear that Cavalcante is winging it at this point, like examples of those he's trying to get into homes, to get food, to get supplies. There aren't caches around of supplies that he's left for himself. But, again, this manhunt intensifying and expanding on day six. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Wild, all of the details coming in, especially hearing from that man is terrifying. Thank you so much, Danny. John?

BERMAN: All right. Joining me now is bounty hunter Zeke Unger. Zeke, thank you so much for being with us. We've seen these new photos these new video images captured of this man on the loose, a backpack in one, a duffle bag in other. Authorities think that indicates that he was able to break into maybe a house or a car to get things. Where do you see things headed? ZEKE UNGER, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, the first thing that is positive is they were able to ascertain and develop that it is him. Now, that they've got a new location, as we know, the perimeter is expanding, which is normal fugitive business.

The Marshall Service is very fluid. They move very quickly. The one thing good about the Marshall Service is that they have a great rapport with local police.

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So, they're working in conjunction. You've got patrol officers being very diligently, sending information back and forth. We've got hyper- vigilance in the community. And I believe that this is going to end relatively soon.

Now, you're going to see boots on the ground. You're going to see a tiger perimeter. You're going to start seeing canines. You know, break-ins and home invasions is a telltale sign in this business. I had said it the other day. This is how these fugitives gain clothing, weapons and sometimes transportation.

I believe there's some mental illness here. Of course, he's a murderer, so he has some form of mental illness. But I think that it has expanded in the fact that he's making bad decisions. He's still on foot. He's still wearing the same clothing.

BERMAN: You call it a bad decision. What does it tell you that he was able to get through the original perimeter, slip through?

UNGER: Well, sometimes it's just a timing issue. He may have slipped through the perimeter prior to them being able to set the perimeter up. Now, they've got another perimeter set up with a direct sighting in a certain area. So, now, what they're going to do is they're going to bring out the canines and they're going to start focusing in. Those canines are very effective. They've got helicopters and they've got local police on patrol that communicate.

One of the things that have made the U.S. Marshall Service so effective for all these years is their communication skills with local law enforcement. A lot of federal agencies, they don't like to-- you know, they like to keep it close to the breast. But the United States Marshall Service has had a history of working directly with local law enforcement, which makes them so effective because those officers know their area.

BERMAN: Zeke, they closed local schools, a few of them in the area. How concerned should people around there be for their safety?

UNGER: Well, I mean, listen, we've got a murderer on the loose. Of course, when it comes to children and facilities, everybody should be very diligent right now. I agree with it. It's only going to take a small amount of time here.

I really believe that they've got them in a great perimeter. And I think we're going to see law enforcement apprehend him very soon. BERMAN: All right. Zeke Unger, don't go far. I mean, we could be in the final hours of this situation. Let's hope. Thank you for your help. Kate?

UNGER: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Super interesting. Also new for us this morning, CNN has exclusive new reporting about the special counsel's investigation into Donald Trump's alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Trump has already been indicted, as you well know, in this case, but multiple sources now reveal that Jack Smith has also been following the fundraising money and has been focusing new witness questioning on Trump's former lawyer and current co-defendant in Georgia, Sidney Powell.

CNN's Paula Reid, she joins us now. She's got more on this. Paula, what are you learning about what Smith is seeking to find here?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Okay. We've learned that Smith's investigators are still hard at work and they are specifically focused on efforts to raise money off of these baseless claims of voter fraud and then how that money was used to breach voting systems in states that Biden won.

Our colleague, Zach Cohen, and I have learned that over the past month since the special counsel handed down the January 6th indictment, which only charges former President Trump, they have continued to speak with witness asking a lot of questions about Sidney Powell.

Now, they've asked whether she was able to present any evidence to support these claims of voter fraud that she kept putting forward and these witnesses have, we are told, said to investigators that, no, they never saw any evidence.

Now, they're also interested, we're told, in her non-profit, called Defending the Republic. Now, according to an invoice obtained by CNN, Defending the Republic used some of the funds that it raised off these claims of voter fraud to hire forensic experts who then breach voting systems in four states.

Now, it's unclear, Kate, if Powell or anyone else will be charged in this case, but it's notable because, originally, we thought that the federal indictment was going to be very narrow and it was going to be the state case that would go after a wider group of people. But now, it appears that may not be the case.

BOLDUAN: Yes. It's great to see you, Paula, and it's great reporting. Thank you. John?

BERMAN: All right. With us now is Gene Rossi, former assistant U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. Counselor, thank you so much for being with us.

The fact that Jack Smith's team is still investigating, still putting witnesses before a grand jury, what impact could that have in the case against Donald Trump, for which there is already a trial date set? GENE ROSSI, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA: All right, here's my prediction, John. You're going to see an indictment of Sidney Powell and probably several others in the next three months.

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They're not going to do a superseding indictment of Donald Trump. My prediction is they're focusing like a laser beam on Sidney Powell's charity, non-profit, her activities, and I think you'll see a multi- defendant indictment that looks at the following, money laundering, wire fraud, mail fraud, tax charges possibly, but it will be separate from Donald Trump because the special counsel, if they're smart, and they are, they want to keep that Trump indictment clean, narrow and focused. But Sidney Powell, at all, I predict, is facing harm's way.

BERMAN: That's what I was getting at there, that separation that you mentioned. That is important. Because if they were to add any direct link to Donald Trump, what might that do to his trial date?

ROSSI: Well, it won't affect his trial date. If you keep the indictment involving Sidney Powell separate, she'll have-- allegedly, she'll have her own trial date and possibly others. It will not affect Donald Trump's trial date one bit. That's why I predict if there is an indictment, it will only be against Sidney Powell at all. They're not going to touch Trump. They want to stay with him, mano-a-mano, one trial. They can focus on him and his activities on January 6th before an effort. And that's a brilliant strategy if they take that approach.

BERMAN: You were talking about Sidney Powell. What are the actions that could put her in jeopardy? Why is their focus on the money?

ROSSI: You raise money based on a fraud. You lie to people to get money. That is a crime, money, wire fraud, mail fraud, money laundering.

You take that money and you then further the schemes that are laid out in Donald Trump's indictment. So, there is a connection between her alleged fundraising kerfuffle, if you will, and the scheme and goals of Donald Trump's conspiracy because there are several goals of the conspiracy that was charged against him. And then you could also go down to Atlanta. That has seven schemes.

So, you raise money based on a lie. You get it and then you spend it on things that are illegal. That the last time I looked at the law books, that's a crime.

BERMAN: Counselor, you brought up Atlanta. Let's talk about Georgia and Fulton County for a moment here. Obviously, far more many defendants there, some of whom will be tried together. Politico had a great story on this, this morning, and others have noted it too, that some of these defendants are starting to, if not, turn on each other, at least reference each other in court filings in ways that aren't necessarily advantageous to all.

When you have that many defendants, what is the risk to start seeing them turn?

ROSSI: Well, think of lobsters in a barrel. They're all trying to climb out and they're all pulling each other down. I just finished a six-week trial, February, March, an Oath keeper, knock on wood, he got probation by Judge Meta, great judge. But we had one key cooperator. In every case of this magnitude hinges on one, two, or three key cooperators. The Proud Boys case, that hinged on one main cooperator, maybe a few others.

So, what's going to happen among these 19? Is they're going to go -- you're going to face a prisoner's dilemma. Do I take a bullet for the team or do I think about me? Do I think about me and me alone and what my future holds?

And you are going to see probably two or three people cooperating before that trial starts and they're going to be very important witness. They could decide the case for or against Donald Trump, Giuliani and the others.

BERMAN: Prisoner's dilemma, do I cooperate before another perhaps cooperates against me? That is the question that many of these defendants could soon face.

Gene Rossi, thanks so much for being with us. I appreciate it. Kate?

ROSSI: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, he was convicted of murdering his wife and son. And now Alex Murdaugh wants a new trial. What CNN is learning and what this could have to do with the jury.

And the warning from U.S. officials now as new intelligence suggests that North Korean leader Kim Jong Un may soon travel to Russia. We have details coming in. That's next.

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BERMAN: All right. New this morning, the Kremlin is declining to comment on reports that North Korean leader Kim Jong Un may soon travel to Russia and meet with President Vladimir Putin. The U.S. is warning that arms negotiations between Russia and North Korea are, quote, actively advancing. It's all part of a potential deal in which North Korea would supply Moscow with weapons for its war on Ukraine.

According to New York Times, we first reported the details, the meeting may take place on the campus of a university in the eastern port city of Vladivostok, which is actually very close to North Korea. That is also where the Eastern Economic Forum is scheduled to take place starting next week.

CNN National Security Correspondent Kylie Atwood is at the State Department. What are you learning about all this, Kylie?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, what we're hearing from the NSC spokesperson, Adrienne Watson, is that U.S. information indicates that Kim Jong Un is actually expecting to have an engagement with President Putin in Russia.

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Now, the NSC isn't saying anything regarding the timing. As you said, The New York Times is reporting it could be in Vladivostok as soon as this month.

We know that Kim Jong Un has actually gone to Vladivostok in the past in 2019. He took a train there. As you said, it's quite close to North Korea. It's in the far east of Russia.

The backdrop here is that U.S. officials have been warning, you know, over the course of recent weeks that these conversations between North Korea and Russia on a potential new arms agreement between the two countries have been actively advancing. And we have seen steps that could indicate that they are headed towards a leader-level discussion on the matter.

It was back in July when the Russian Defense Minister traveled to North Korea. According to the NSC, that was an effort to try and get North Korea to actually sell ammunition to Russia. There was another delegation of Russian officials who also went to North Korea after that. And then, according to the NSC, Kim Jong Un and President Putin have actually exchanged letters.

Now, the NSC, as John Kirby said last week, that this shows desperation on behalf of Russia. Listen, to what he told reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: Weakness. I mean, why else would Mr. Putin have to be reaching out to rogue regimes? He's going to Iran. He's going to North Korea to try to get artillery shells and the basic materials so that he can continue to shore up his defense industrial base. There is no other way to look at that than desperation and weakness, quite frankly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Now, John, Kirby also said that the U.S. expects that this deal that's potentially to come to fruition would include a significant amount of ammunition from North Korea to Russia to be used in multiple different kinds of Russian weapons system and also the possibility of raw materials from North Korea to Russia that Russia could use, essentially, in its defense industrial complex.

The concern also is what Russia would be giving to North Korea, with U.S. officials telling me the expectation is that North Korea is looking for advanced technology that could be used in areas where they haven't quite advanced as far as they want to. So, the concern is really on both sides here. John?

BERMAN: Yes, a lot of possible reasons for concern. Kylie Atwood, please keep us posted. Thank you so much. Kate? BOLDUAN: Let's talk more about this with CNN Military Analysts, retired General Wesley Clark. He's also, of course, the former NATO Supreme allied commander. General, it's great to see you. Thank you for coming in.

What do you think of this new reporting? First, I mean, what can North Korea provide to Russia? How much of a difference do you think it would make?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: North Korea can provide Russia ammunition, artillery, technology of all types of sort of low-level technology for weapons, plus the raw materials. And so they would be, at least in the near term, a major factor in enabling Russia to do more in its northeast offensive against Ukraine.

Now, there's been discussions for months that these talks are ongoing. Some believe that weapons or ammunition have already been provided. And the latest reports were getting from the battlefield. There was a period of time where it seemed like the Russian forces didn't have the artillery they wanted. Now, it seems like they're getting the artillery ammunition to reestablish their dominance in rates of fire over Ukraine. So, maybe some of this is already happening.

BOLDUAN: Previously and somewhat successfully, the United States has used kind of this remarkable strategy of publicly releasing intelligence regarding Russia in order to deter nations from helping in their war effort. If that is a little bit of what we are seeing here, do you think it will work with North Korea? I mean, does North Korea care in the same way that maybe China would seem to be in being called out?

CLARK: Well, Kim Jong Un is a clever negotiator and he plays all angles. So, he wants something from Putin. He's giving something to Putin or perhaps going to give a lot more to Putin to get what he wants. But he's also sensitive to what China might say and, to some extent, sensitive to the world community. So, he's weighing the risks.

The United States strategy of releasing information has some impact. But Putin is, as John Kirby said, increasingly desperate to get the materials, the munitions that he needs to strengthen his attack into Ukraine. So, I think he'll make the bargain and I expect Kim Jong Un to get what he needs out of it.

BOLDUAN: I want to ask you also, General, about something that's been back here in the United States, and has been going on now for five months.

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The current secretaries of the Navy, the Air Force and the Army all penned an opinion piece in The Washington Post out this morning calling out Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville over his protest hold on confirming senior officer promotions as Congress is now getting back in session today, this is all the more important. And what these secretaries write is that this hold is eroding the foundation of America's military. Let me read a little bit of what they write. Across the services, many generals and admirals are being forced to perform two roles simultaneously. The strain of this double duty places a real and unfair burden on these officers, the organizations they lead and their families. The blanket hold is also exacting a personal toll on those who least deserve it. It goes on to say, any claim that holding up the promotions of top officers does not directly damage the military is wrong, plain and simple.

It's pretty remarkable that this has been going on now for five-plus months. I mean what do you think of this and also remarkable to see the current secretaries of the Navy, Air Force and Army speaking out in this way? What do you think?

CLARK: Okay. And I'm very glad to see the current secretary speaking out. I think this hold is very damaging. We have seen holds in the past on individual officers' promotions, but this is something entirely different. This is a wholesale hold on the normal summertime rotation and retirement that happens at the top of the armed forces. It's extremely damaging. And it's damaging not only because of the hold but also for the reason behind it because we're really bringing in domestic politics in such a strong way into this military arena.

You know, the military is non-political. We serve the commander-in- chief, whoever he is, whatever party or she is, whatever party they are, it doesn't matter. Senator Tuberville is a former football coach and a darn good one. He knows you can't have a football team succeed without coaching. So, he's really put his thumb on the jugular ear of the U.S. Armed Forces.

I think the Republican Party and the leaders in the Senate need to put a stop to this, and that's certainly the message that's being delivered by the service secretaries.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And this message from the service secretaries, this opinion piece, is worth a read today in The Washington Post. Thank you, General. John?

BERMAN: Lawyers for convicted killer Alex Murdaugh are expected to ask for a new trial alleging jury tampering in his first double murder trial. What this can mean going forward.

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