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Mitch McConnell's Health?; Mark Meadows Pleads Not Guilty in Georgia; Pennsylvania Manhunt. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired September 05, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:02:24]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: A new sighting of a killer on the run, schools closed in the area, as new surveillance camera images reveal new clues about how the convict may be surviving and also a new search area.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Also, exclusive CNN reporting, special counsel Jack Smith still investigating and now focused on following the money, where fund-raising money was spent as part of the alleged conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election and what it could mean for Donald Trump's unindicted co-conspirators.

BERMAN: A potential meeting with far-reaching consequences. Russian President Vladimir Putin and North Korea's Kim Jong-un could soon be speaking face to face.

Sidner is off. I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan.

This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

All right, breaking this morning, police are expanding the manhunt for a killer who escaped from a prison in Pennsylvania almost one week ago. They say convicted murderer Danelo Cavalcante was spotted by a security camera south of the perimeter where they previously been searching.

They spotted him overnight. And now they have photos. Two school districts in the area are closed today because of concern that the escape killer could be hiding nearby.

CNN's Danny Freeman is with us now for the very latest.

Danny, what are you learning?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, John, you really said it.

This search is expanding and intensifying for Danelo Cavalcante. Think about it. We're six days from when he escaped from the Chester County prison behind me. And now we have confirmed that there have been six sightings of Cavalcante over the course of this manhunt.

The first -- rather, the most recent one we just learned about in this press conference this morning with Pennsylvania State Police took place, as you said, just a little bit south of the two-mile radius that law enforcement officials had been searching for the bulk over the weekend.

But now it's expanded into what's known here as Longwood Gardens. It's a popular tourist destination. And it's massive. It's 200 acres of sprawling gardens, of meadows as well, also of winding trails. And it was on a trail camera where Cavalcante was spotted last night, first at around 8:30, then at around 9:30.

And you can see this picture that we have been showing throughout the morning. It's pretty intense. You see him. It almost looks like he's looking right at the trail camera. He's not wearing a shirt. He's carrying a duffel bag on his shoulder, still seems to be wearing those prison-issued pants.

[11:05:01]

And the police say that some of these supplies that he has that you can see on this trail camera shows that he is looking for resources as he goes, perhaps by trying to look at open cars or in open homes. So, police are urging residents in the area to be extremely vigilant and extremely careful.

But, John, we have been talking a lot about how difficult this search has been for law enforcement. Take a listen to what Lieutenant Colonel George Bivens of the Pennsylvania State Police described, how he described the area that is being searched right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. COL. GEORGE BIVENS, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: What you have, though, are significant parcels of wooded area with a lot of undergrowth, so thick that our searchers can't be more than a couple of yards apart, where they at times lose sight of one another.

It's so thick that they have to hack their way through or go around and try and make sure that they have still covered that area, because they just -- you can't walk through it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: So, John, that is what law enforcement officials are up against right now. But they're working to combat that challenging terrain as much as possible.

They're using helicopters, canines, a number of law enforcement, not only from the state and local level, but they're calling in Customs and Border Protection resources and FBI resources, again, all -- for an all-out effort to capture this man, Cavalcante, six days after escaping from this prison behind me -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Danny Freeman on the scene.

Danny, keep us posted what you see and hear.

With us now CNN, chief law enforcement analyst John Miller.

John, it's been about two-and-a-half-hours since we learned that the perimeter has shifted, that they had these new photos of the convicted killer on the run.

Where do things stand right now?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, they have shifted the perimeter. They have tightened the perimeter.

As Danny said, the Gardens are amazing, because, I mean, if you're going to be on the run or hiding out, it's about the most beautiful place you could be. It's 200 acres of horticultural displays and incredible flowers and trees and so on.

But the downside for him is, there are cameras there. You have had encounters with homeowners where he's been flicking lights on and off in houses. You have had an encounter with the State Police where he was spotted, chased, but got away.

So he's had about six brushes with being sighted, which means he doesn't really have long. Look at the team on this also. You have got the DA, Deb Ryan, who's mad, and rightly so. She convicted this guy of murder, got him sentenced to life.

BERMAN: Two weeks ago -- or three weeks ago now.

MILLER: Right, I think the 21st.

And now has to go through this, leading this law enforcement effort to capture him.

But you have also got Bob Clark from the U.S. Marshals. He's the head of the regional fugitive task force. Finding people on the run is what he does for a living every day. He's got an expert team, and not just in the urban back alleys of Philadelphia looking for fugitive felons.

They have done this business in the woods before, as recently as July with Mike Burnham, another murderer who escaped a different county prison up in Warren with survivalist training, lasted about 10 days out there.

Or I go back to 2014 with the Eric Frein case, a domestic terrorist, 48 days on the run, ended with a massive shoot-out.

And George Bivens, the lieutenant colonel from the State Police, who you see is the overall coordinator here, led that effort. And that was, again, in all kinds of rural areas, wooded areas. A state trooper was killed in the final gun battle with him.

So, nobody who's doing this is out on their first rodeo. And they have a relatively small area. They're going to get this guy.

BERMAN: All right, John, stand by.

We're going to get to this in a second, but there is other news.

BOLDUAN: We have got some of the breaking news coming in just into CNN. Former White House Chief of Staff to Donald Trump Mark Meadows and five other defendants charged in the election interference case -- this is the one focused in Fulton County, Georgia -- they have now pleaded not guilty.

Let's get over to CNN's Sara Murray to bring us up to speed on this, keeping track of all of these pleas as they come in.

What does this say about the kind of the state of the case right now, Sara?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, we were waiting to see this flurry of filings.

We suspected that probably not a lot of folks, and especially not Mark Meadows, the former White House chief of staff, would want to appear in person at the Fulton County courthouse on Wednesday for these arrangements. And we are now seeing these filings come in.

So we see Mark Meadows has entered a plea of not guilty and waived his arraignment. So has pro-Trump attorney John Eastman. So has Jeffrey Clark, who is a former Justice Department official, everyone getting their filings in ahead of this Wednesday deadline for arraignment.

And, again, the way it works in Fulton County Superior Court is, you don't necessarily have to be there in person. You can put in his paperwork. You can waive arraignment.

So it's an open question when we could actually see these folks in court. Mark Meadows, of course, is in the process of trying to move all of the proceedings against him from state court to federal court. A judge has heard hours of arguments on that.

[11:10:05]

He got additional briefings on that. And we're waiting, essentially, at any moment for him to make the decision about whether Meadows met the threshold, that everything he did related to the 2020 election or his activities were -- all stemmed from his role as the White House chief of staff.

If the judge decides that he has met that bar, he will be able to move his case to federal court, and a number of these other defendants are going to be watching to see if Meadows is successful, including the former President Donald Trump's team, who we know is looking at the possibility of moving Trump's case or trying to move Trump's case to federal court as well.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Great to see you, Sara. Thanks for jumping on to bring us that.

MURRAY: Thank you.

BERMAN: So, also this. There is new CNN exclusive reporting this morning on where and whom and what special counsel Jack Smith is focused on right now in the federal election subversion investigation. Look, here's the situation. Donald Trump's trial date has been set for

March. But we have learned this morning as part of this new exclusive CNN reporting The investigation itself is not over. He is talking to other witnesses. The grand jury is still meeting. Smith is seeking to learn about money that was raised off of these baseless voter fraud claims and then used to pay for alleged attempts to breach voting equipment.

CNN's Paula Reid joins us now with the latest on this.

Paula, what are you learning here?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, a month ago when the indictment came down from the special counsel -- and it only charged former President Trump, a lot of people were surprised.

The indictment, though, does mention co-defendants or co-conspirators. And the question was whether this case was just going to be narrowly tailored, so that it could go to trial before the 2024 election, or whether anyone else was going to be charged.

And that's what our colleague Zach Cohen and I sought to look into in this new reporting. And we have learned that, in recent weeks, the special counsel has been asking witnesses specifically about co- conspirator Sidney Powell. She's one of the attorneys that helped push those baseless claims of voter fraud.

And they have been asking witnesses if Powell ever presented any evidence of these claims. And investigators, we're told, have heard repeatedly, no, she never presented any evidence.

But investigators are also interested in Powell's nonprofit, Defending the Republic. Now, that nonprofit helped to profit, helped to fund- raise off of these election lies. But then we know, according to an invoice obtained by CNN, that that group used some of the money that it raised to hire forensic experts who were able to breach voting systems in four states that Biden won.

So this new reporting shows that the special counsel is still clearly working hard on this investigation, but it's unclear if Powell or anyone else will be charged. But, remember, our initial understanding is that maybe there would be this narrow federal case, and then a more broad state prosecution, which we have, of course, seen in Georgia, where Powell and others were charged.

But now this new reporting raises questions about whether that's actually going to be the case or if the special counsel could possibly file additional charges.

BERMAN: All right, Paul Reid, thank you so much for your reporting and laying it all out for us.

With us now is former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti.

And, Renato, I want to pick up right where Paula left off. This investigation continues. Specifically, it seems, it is Sidney

Powell and others not named Donald Trump. How much do you think that the special counsel will want to keep this now separate from the indictment against Trump and the trial date that's already set for March in this case?

RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: There's no question in my mind that he is going to indict that as a separate -- a separate indictment.

In fact, it's pretty apparent at this point that he was doing -- he did what he did, in other words, drew a narrow indictment, had one defendant, Donald Trump, with the intention to have that trial as quickly as possible.

And, typically, a prosecutor would want to charge everyone together, like Fani Willis did in Georgia. I think Jack Smith deliberately took this approach, so that he could get that trial done as soon as possible.

BOLDUAN: Renato, is there a chance that he can't, that these two things have to be linked, that they cannot be tried separately? Do you see -- is there something that could be coming down the road, pike on that?

MARIOTTI: No. No one will raise that as a practical matter.

Defendants always want to have their own trial, Kate. They all -- they all want to ideally -- like, let's say everyone in Georgia would love to have 19 separate trials. It's typically prosecutors who want everyone tried together. And judges usually go along with that, because -- just for their own sake, for the efficiency of the legal system, they'd rather have one trial, instead of 19.

And so I don't think anyone's going to protest that. But what it does mean, I suspect, is a trial with a whole bunch of these other alleged co-conspirators together. I'm sure some of them will be asking for separate trials. It'll go in a different direction, where everyone wants their own trial. I don't think they will all get one.

[11:15:05]

BOLDUAN: Renato, does this seem to start leading us down to an answer to what was a question when we first saw this indictment of Donald Trump was this just -- there was just all of these unindicted co- conspirators, all of these, these very -- they're almost detailed descriptions of who these co-conspirators are without them being named in that indictment, which left a lot of people wondering why, after such a long investigation.

Does this new reporting and this focus of the investigation by Jack Smith now, does that start to answer that?

MARIOTTI: Absolutely, Kate. Very good point.

At the time, people thought, OK, maybe he made a decision, maybe Jack Smith decided, I'm just going to go after Trump. I'm going to let everyone else hang out there. I'm not going to indict them.

It turns out what happened was, he had some additional work to do regarding some of these other defendants. He wasn't there yet. And he made the decision that, if he waited until he was over the line, so to speak, with -- for all those other co-conspirators, he wouldn't get this done quickly, perhaps wouldn't get it done before Election Day.

And so he made a tactical decision to indict Trump first, and then he's continuing his work. So, this way, he gets everything wrapped up for the co-conspirators before Trump actually faces trial, which I think will mean that those co-conspirators are not going to be eager to testify in his defense.

BERMAN: Renato, I want to ask you about the breaking news that we have up on the screen here, which is that Donald Trump's former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows has pleaded not guilty in the Georgia case, in the Fulton County case.

I don't think it's a surprise at all that Mark Meadows thinks he's not guilty. I think many people, including me, thought that he would wait as long as he could to see if his case were removed to federal court, which, of course, he has argued for. He testified not too long ago trying to get his case moved to federal court.

Does it tell us anything that he pleaded not guilty in the state case before waiting to find out if the trial would be moved?

MARIOTTI: I think he's running out of time, John. So I think he did what he had to do there.

It doesn't -- it doesn't extinguish his -- the motion that he has in federal court. I think Mark Meadows, if any -- if there's an enigma here, all of us, I think, are interested in what's happening in the Mark Meadows camp, because, of course, as Kate was mentioning, all these unindicted co-conspirators, he was conspicuously absent, even as an unindicted co-conspirator in the D.C. indictment.

And then here he's pursuing, I would say, high-risk, calculated-risk legal strategy to try to remove that case to federal court. It will be very interesting to see how that plays out. But I think he did not hurt himself by pleading not guilty.

BERMAN: All right, Renato Mariotti, great to see you. Thank you very much.

BOLDUAN: Still ahead for us, U.S. officials now warning, North Korean leader Kim Jong-un may soon travel to Russia to possibly be working out an arms deal with Vladimir Putin.

Much more on that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:22:43]

BOLDUAN: All right, this just into CNN. We have an update on Mitch McConnell's health coming in.

The Senate Republican leader's office has just released some new details.

BERMAN: All right, we want to bring in CNN's Manu Raju and CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Manu, you got your hands on this release. What does it say?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, giving more details after the second health scare involving Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, who, as we remember, froze last week in front of cameras for roughly 30 seconds.

That also occurred back in July, and this also in the aftermath of him hitting his head, suffering a concussion back in March, this providing more information and the aftermath of that second health scare. So this is a letter that was released by McConnell's office from Brian Monahan, who is the Capitol Hill attending physician.

It's a brief letter, so I will read it to you in full. It says: "My examination of you following your August 30, 2023, brief episode included several medical evaluations." It says brain MRI imaging, EEG study and consultations with several neurologists for a comprehensive neurology assessment.

And it goes on to say: "There is no evidence that you have a seizure disorder or that you experienced a stroke, TIA or movement disorder such as Parkinson's disease. There are no changes recommended in treatment protocols as you continue recovery from your March 2023 fall."

So there's been a lot of questions about what exactly happened to Senator McConnell, the Republicans are coming back in the Senate, and Democrats, coming back to the Senate for the first time in roughly five weeks on a recess, and the Republican leader facing questions himself about how long he can continue to serve in office.

Now, for the first time, providing this information about that he had these examinations, that there was no evidence of a seizure or a stroke. A lot of speculation that that could have been the case. At the time, John, as you know, Republicans, the leader's office only indicated that he had lightheadedness.

That's what they attributed those two frozen moments to. And that's last week, when Brian Monahan, the Capitol physician, released a letter. He said lightheadedness could occur from those who suffered a concussion, as McConnell did back in March.

So it was unclear exactly whether it was tied to that fall or not, but here indicating in this note, they say no evidence of a seizure or a stroke. The question is -- or Parkinson's disease. The question is, will that alleviate any concerns that are lingering on Capitol Hill?

[11:25:05]

BOLDUAN: Manu, thank you for jumping on so quickly to bring us this update.

Sanjay, not only as a dear friend and chief medical correspondent, but neurosurgeon in your own right, talk to me about what you hear from the Capitol physician here, that they did MRI imaging, an EEG study and other consultations with several neurologists.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it sounds like they did a pretty comprehensive sort of evaluation.

So, this was -- I think Manu said August 30, so a few days ago now. So, apparently, after that last episode, it sounds like, there was enough concern. It doesn't sound like they did these types of tests in July after that first episode.

But after this most recent episode, the idea that, was this a stroke? Was this a seizure? Or was this something else, like a movement disorder, such as Parkinson's and medications not wearing -- not working well? It sounds like they evaluated for all those things, brain MRI, EEG, and then neurological evaluation, sounds like, and basically saying none of those things seem to be the case here.

So, that's good. That's good news. I think I'm curious to know what kind of follow-up. When you do these types of imaging tests to do an EEG, you're getting sort of these -- these snapshots in time. So, sometimes, things may be happening, but you don't catch them on the scans.

But, nevertheless, it's a pretty thorough evaluation. And, as Manu said, they're basically saying, look, he had this concussion back earlier in the spring, as a result of that, lightheadedness, which is a little bit of a tough line to draw between the concussions, lightheadedness, and these symptoms.

But that's basically what this note is saying: We have ruled out some of the leading other possible things here.

BERMAN: That is what the note specifically does. It says what it's not.

GUPTA: Right.

BERMAN: It says no evidence of seizure, no evidence of stroke, due to TIA, no Parkinson's. It does not do as much to say definitively what it is.

GUPTA: Right.

BERMAN: There's a suggestion it's connected to the concussion, Sanjay.

In your field -- and, again, this is very much your field -- can you always know what it is? Or can all you do is to rule things out?

GUPTA: Yes, that's a great question.

Sometimes, you will get a definitive diagnosis, and then something pops out. You do an EEG, and someone is clearly having a certain type of seizure, which could explain those symptoms, that would rule in the diagnosis.

But, yes, a lot of times with something like this, you are saying, hey, look, what are the worst things that could possibly be causing this? You want to -- you want to hope for the best, but prepare for the worst, that sort of mentality.

So, you look at the worst possible things and start to rule them out? A brain MRI. Is there blood collection still in the brain? Is there a tumor? Is there something else there? It sounds like the brain MRI, they don't say that definitively, but they say -- basically give you the impression that it was normal, an EEG, no evidence of a seizure disorder.

So those are -- those are pretty good tests. And then it sounds like he had neurologists also evaluate him, do a full exam to see, does he have any evidence of Parkinson's disease, a movement disorder, which oftentimes you can diagnose by doing a good neurological exam?

So they have looked at sort of the worst things, frankly, that could be causing these types of symptoms, these freezing episodes, and basically saying, we don't find anything here at this point. So it's good news. I mean, it's good for him to know that.

What I think is still confusing a bit, John, and I guess to your point, is, concussion in the spring. Lightheadedness, yes, that can be one of the symptoms. It's not something you put at the top of the list. And, certainly, you would just hydrate for that. If this was a problem, why not just make sure that he's being hydrated?

Why does he continue to have these spells? And two is then drawing a connection from lightheadedness to freezing, it's just challenging. It's just -- it's very hard to connect all those dots.

BOLDUAN: So interesting. It's so important to have Sanjay.

Manu, with all of this and the updates that you're getting from McConnell's office. What are you hearing about -- I mean, the Senate back in today. Well, how much are we going to see how -- from the Republican leader? How much are we going to hear from him?

RAJU: Well, we will hear from him this afternoon. He's expected to give his regularly scheduled remarks after the Senate opens.

And I'm sure he will this be discussing mainly Senate business, but he will face cameras again tomorrow with their weekly leadership meeting. This will be an issue that he will have to -- that will come up. He will be asked questions privately too among some of his members.

He's already been on the phone with some of the key members of his leadership team. Other members and the rank and file have been calling him to see what's going on. So, there are still these questions among these members who he's not had face-to-face interaction with since the Senate left for this five-week August recess. Tomorrow, he will meet with -- among a full Republican Conference meeting as well. So, the question is, will this allow Republicans and Democrats -- Republicans to move forward, move -- focus on other issues, not McConnell's health? That's what they hope, with this letter, to cool down the speculation.