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Murdaugh Lawyers Allege Jury Tampering, Seek New Trial; Pence Warning Republicans Against Choosing Populism; Tropical Storm Lee Approaching Hurricane Strength. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired September 06, 2023 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

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SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Disgraced South Carolina lawyer and now convicted killer Alex Murdaugh is asking a judge for a brand-new trial. All based on some wild allegations of jury tampering that his legal team says they've uncovered since his conviction.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Murdaugh's team writes this in this new filing that the County Clerk, Rebecca Hill, "Tampered with the jury by advising them not to believe Murdaugh's testimony and other evidence presented by the defense, pressuring them to reach a quick guilty verdict, and even misrepresenting critical and material information to the trial judge in her campaign to remove a juror she believed to be favorable to the defense." And here is how Murdaugh reacted -- Murdaugh reacted to this information when he first learned of it according to his attorney.

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JIM GRIFFIN, ATTORNEY FOR ALEX MURDAUGH: When I shared with him the affidavits, he's a lawyer, he was astonished. He was shaking. He was in disbelief.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And joining us now for more on this, Defense and Trial Attorney, Misty Marris. OK, Misty, we saw this was coming yesterday. And now that you have had the chance to read through it, what's your reaction to these allegations?

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE AND TRIAL ATTORNEY: When we heard yesterday that something was a bombshell, it is true. This is a bombshell, if true. Of course, these are just allegations. They're supported by affidavits that depend on what comes out when somebody is actually being questioned.

But the information in this filing is really egregious if it is actually true. And it is certainly enough for the defense to get that evidentiary hearing that they've requested before the judge in order to dig into this to see exactly what happened. Because whatever you think about Alex Murdaugh, guilty or not guilty, whatever your personal opinion is, he is entitled to a fair trial. SIDNER: When it comes to the role of the court clerk. What is the role of the clerk normally and how much access would she have to the jury as a whole?

MARRIS: So, the court clerk is usually responsible for many of the logistics relating to the jury and the logistics of the courtroom in general. But what are the court rules? Well, the court rules say, and the judge repeats it every single day of trial, you cannot talk to a third party as a juror about this case.

[11:35:04]

You cannot even speak to each other about this case until deliberation. So, it is absolutely crossing a line for a court clerk, somebody who knows these rules, to go in and speak to any juror about any aspect of the case. So, again, the fact that she's having these one-on-one conversations with the four person, to the extent that she did say something directly about the veracity of the evidence, that is the heart of the case. And therefore, a very strong basis for this motion.

BOLDUAN: Look, Rebecca Hill, Becky Hill has not responded to CNN's request for comments. She's the clerk of court that is at the center of all of these allegations, obviously. But what happens now? What could this mean for Murdaugh's life sentence that he's currently in?

MARRIS: So, what would happen? There's a bunch of steps that have to go forward before we get any clarity on where this is actually going to go. First, that evidentiary hearing we spoke about, the judge would be able to -- there be questions to all of the jurors. There would be cross-examination, there would be discovery. It would be like a mini trial.

SIDNER: OK.

MARRIS: In order to dig into these allegations. If it is confirmed that these statements were made or any aspect of this relating to communications with the juries or, you know, God forbid. Actually, circumventing the process by getting a juror removed.

If that ends up being true, well, then the next step is to overturn that verdict. If that verdict is overturned, it's a new trial. It's called De novo review. New evidence, he could testify, he could not testify. Full new jury, starting again from scratch.

SIDNER: Wow. That would be a lot for the Prosecutors and the defense to go back through this all over again, never mind the community and the family. I do want to ask you, if this turns out to be true, that this clerk had some kind of contact. Would other cases possibly be impacted if they learned this about one case, will they go back and look at other cases?

MARRIS: As a defense lawyer? That light bulb would go off in my head. That if I had a case proceeding in this courtroom and she was the court clerk at the time, which she's an elected official.

SIDNER: All right.

MARRIS: So, that's in the recent past, I would be looking into whether or not there was any tainting of the jury because this conduct truly is so egregious. And to your point, there's also, in addition to thinking about the consequences for Alex Murdaugh, what this means for his case.

There's also got to be an inquiry into her conduct, not only by the courtroom, the State, the County. But also, we've heard the U.S. attorney's Office may be involved. There will be an inquiry because if true, this conduct could absolutely rise to the level of criminality. So, that's a whole separate issue.

BOLDUAN: That's exactly right. It's good to see, Misty, let's -- there's a lot that needs to happen now and unfold in court, under oath, in front of the judge. Let's see what happens. Thank you so much. John?

MARRIS: Thank you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, after mainly silence from the White House on Donald Trump's long list of legal troubles. We are hearing from Vice President Kamala Harris, what she is saying this morning about accountability.

[11:40:00]

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BOLDUAN: Mike Pence, with a new warning for the Republican Party today. The Republican Presidential hopeful is set to give a speech later titled, Populism versus Conservatism. And ahead of that, he says this populism is, quote, a pathway for defeat for the Republican Party. Do you wonder who he's trying to draw a contrast with? Joining us now, Senior Political Director David Chalian. Who is this contrast that he is trying to draw?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. He doesn't say it in the presentation, but he has no qualms when you ask him, he says, yes, I'm talking about the former President. I'm talking about the candidates in the race who are copying, mimicking the former President. Like Vivek Ramaswamy in Mike Pence's estimation.

This is Mike Pence's attempt, right? At the vision thing, right? Like, a real contrast in vision for the Republican Party. This Populism versus Conservatism. The problem is the party he's pitching it to, has largely moved to the more populous wing under Trump's dominance.

BERMAN: And when you talk about traditional Republican issues, like Donald Trump is leading in all of them.

CHALIAN: Yes. John, look, in our poll that was just out yesterday, we asked folks about who would handle the issues best. That's the horse race there.

BOLDUAN: That's the horse -- CHALIAN: 52 percent, you see Donald Trump's dominant standing in the race. But when you look at the issue list and you look at things like, who could best handle the economy? 69 percent of Republicans say that's Donald Trump. 65 percent say so on immigration, 63 percent on Ukraine, 59 percent on government overreach. I could argue, you could say populism works its way into each one of those categories. And Mike Pence is in the mid-single digits on these issues. So, he has a tall task ahead of it.

BOLDUAN: So, a tall task. I mean, put up the horse race again, and then we can ask the question that John Berman has been posing that is a very important one.

BERMAN: It was my sons, actually.

BOLDUAN: Which is even better.

BERMAN: Even better.

BOLDUAN: Obviously, the better part of John Berman is the sons. Add all of the Republicans together, you don't even reach Donald Trump.

CHALIAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: So, where are they going to get their support if they don't get Trump supporters?

CHALIAN: You have to change a Trump voter's mind. There's no doubt about that. You are going to have to consolidate everyone that doesn't want Donald Trump, which is a small minority of the Republican Party. And you have to actually convert Trump voters to your side.

That is the mission ahead for these candidates not named Trump. And when you see beyond just the horse race number, guys, Donald Trump supporters are so sticky. 83 percent of them say they're not willing to move off the dime, they're sticking with Trump no matter what.

BOLDUAN: And they don't and -- in majorities also say they don't care about a conviction. They don't think it affects his electability, and it's not going to affect their decision.

CHALIAN: Right.

BERMAN: Let's talk about the criminal cases --

BOLDUAN: OK.

BERMAN: -- against Donald Trump for a second here. The White House has been notably silent and chosen not to answer really direct questions about the criminal cases against Donald Trump. What did President Biden himself say? He said, nice picture about the --

[11:45:11]

CHALIAN: The handsome guy, when he injected some sarcasm --

BOLDUAN: The mug shot, yes.

(CROSSTALK)

CHALIAN: -- asked about the mug shot.

BERMAN: So, Vice President Kamala Harris sat for an interview, and she was asked about this. It's not like she stood up and said, hey, I want to talk about this. She was asked a question about it. I want you to listen to how she answered, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS MEGERIAN, A.P. WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: You mentioned holding people accountable. Obviously, a big issue right now, the indictments against President Trump. Is that part of what you mean about holding people accountable for January 6?

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, as you know, I spent the majority of my career as a prosecutor. I believe that people should be held accountable under the law. And when they break the law, there should be accountability, and I support it when it happens.

MEGERIAN: And that extended the former President?

HARRIS: Well, everyone has their right to their day in court. But absolutely, people should be held accountable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHALIAN: You know, what she's saying there, guys, is rather benign, right? Like, you would expect any --

BOLDUAN: Right.

CHALIAN: -- elected official in the country to say exactly that. Everyone has their presumption of innocence, their right to a day in court. And that we are a nation of laws, and that facts should lead the way when there are criminal charges at stake here. So, it's not like it's -- but it is the contrast with the intentional silence that we've seen from the President.

He's been so reluctant, probably on advice from counsel, to not comment on Trump's case. And you saw there, the Vice President didn't want to wade specifically into the Trump case because they don't want to become injected into the cases themselves. But if democracy is at the heart of these cases, this is Joe Biden's predecessor and potential successor for the Oval Office again.

And we saw the appeal it had and the success it had politically for Democrats in the Midterms. Joe Biden's going to have to start making these arguments. And I think you see Kamala Harris answer that question quite intentionally.

BOLDUAN: You can't stay silent about it. You can't run for reelection President or anything against -- you cannot stay silent on it forever. I mean, look, it's sometimes the role of the running mate of the Vice President to dip the toe in the water or be -- or be kind of more aggressive in the attack on media.

BERMAN: But if that's bad cop, that's like, you know, that's not a truly aggressive bad cop in good cop, bad cop, right?

BOLDUAN: That's a good point. I just don't see the possibility that he can continue a strategy of staying silent on this.

CHALIAN: Right. He's going to -- what he's going to need to find is the balance. How does he make the case for democracy of Donald Trump is a threat to democracy without giving Trump and his legal team an opening that the President's injecting himself into the case?

BERMAN: I think maybe a more interesting question is, when does he do that?

CHALIAN: Correct.

BERMAN: Does he wait until after -- there's a verdict in one of the cases? Does he wait until after there is crucial in public in nominee?

BOLDUAN: It could be after the election, but we don't know.

CHALIAN: We know that he can wait that long, right? I mean, he's going to be in the midst of a campaign potentially against him. Maybe come the spring if this nomination does not last all the way into the convention season. And so, he's going to be in the heart of battle.

BOLDUAN: That's interesting. The timing of that is a really interesting question now.

BERMAN: David Chalian, sometime CNN News Central Anchor, great to see you here at the anchor desk.

CHALIAN: Great to be here.

BERMAN: Where you belong.

BOLDUAN: Please, come stand in between us again.

BERMAN: Sarah?

SIDNER: Yes. So, next time you guys can invite me to the party when David's here. Appreciate it, guys. Yes, I see how you are. All right. Tropical Storm Lee, churning across the Atlantic. The National Hurricane Center expects it to become a hurricane later today. If it's a big one, we know that John Berman will be there. We will tell you where the forecast is next.

[11:50:00]

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SIDNER: We are still in the midst of hurricane season and boy, it shows. This is a storm brewing offshore right now. The Tropical Storm Lee is intensifying in the Atlantic. The National Hurricane Center expects it will reach hurricane strength later on today. CNN's Derek Van Damme is, of course, watching this storm very closely. Derek, give us a sense of the forecast. Now, we see that typical churn right there.

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, that's right, Sara. You know, we are this close to referencing this as hurricane Lee, right? So, it's becoming more and more organized, every minute we see this satellite update currently at 70 miles per hour. In order for it to reach hurricane status, it needs to be 74 mile per hour or stronger sustained winds.

So, what do we got in the future? Leeward Islands and Woodward Islands, Windward Islands, this is not a problem. But Leeward Islands, we need to keep a very close eye on this storm. The official track from the National Hurricane Center shows an intensifying hurricane becoming a major hurricane by this weekend.

And then, notice this, what we call the path or cone of uncertainty, it's not including the Leeward Islands. But remember, the actual deviation of this if it was to, let's say, travel a little further to the southwest. The typical average error at day four and day five is roughly 150 to 200 miles.

So, if that center of the storm creeps a little further to the south and west, the Windward Islands or Leeward Islands will be impacted by this. It will traverse very warm water with very low shear, that means it's favorable for a strengthening, rapidly intensifying hurricane. Explicit language from the National Hurricane Center, all of our computer models in tight consensus that's what it will do.

But the big question on everyone's mind, not only will it have impacts into Puerto Rico, the Leeward Islands well, yes, indirectly at the moment, but will it impact the East Coast of the U.S. And that's all to do with the steering level, currents, high pressure to the north, and the potential of a trough off the East Coast for the middle half of next week. Those two could work in conjunction to potentially bring impacts to the East Coast a long way away. But something here the team of meteorologists are monitoring very closely, Sara.

SIDNER: When you look at that, were just you and I at Hurricane Idalia, which hit the other side of Florida, that is not looking great, but we will wait to see what happens.

VAN DAM: Right, Sara.

[11:55:03]

SIDNER: Let's talk about something else. You talked about the warm water and that helps to strengthen a hurricane. We've been seeing the hottest temperatures ever recorded in human history. Give us a sense of how many people are in, you know, there's a real danger here.

VAN DAM: Yes, 90 million Americans under heat alerts today alone. Let's take, for instance, it has been well over four decades that Washington, D.C., our nation's capital, has seen a temperature of a hundred degrees and they're going to flirt with that today. Baltimore has had three consecutive days of record high temperatures.

Here's a look at the alerts across the Northeast but also the south Texas, by the way, we'll see temperatures basically at all cities above 100 degrees tomorrow and into the weekend, early parts of the weekend. Here's a look at the high temperature for today. We're running anywhere from 15 to 25 degrees above average for this time of year, that's why we've got records. Sarah?

SIDNER: Derek Van Dam, thank you so much. Remember that time when I said I needed those mitts that cool you off?

BERMAN: Now.

SIDNER: Christmas, I'll take them now.

BOLDUAN: It's probably going to be 90 degrees come December anyway. Thanks so much for joining us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "INSIDE POLITICS" up next.

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