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Menendez Prosecutor: "The Investigation Is Not Done"; UAW Expands Strike At GM And Stellantis, Reports Progress With Ford; Woman Forced To Flee Her Home Now Helps Refugees Find Safety. Aired 11:30a- 12p ET

Aired September 22, 2023 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: You just heard a U.S. attorney say that he was working to benefit the government of Egypt.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Not good. And moreover, what's interesting is the manner in which the exchange of favors, if you want to call them that, plays out as often through his wife, the way the indictment is structured. There are a number of statements and communications made between Senator Menendez and his wife and alleged -- allegedly between the senator and his wife and some of the other people who were charged that that led to these actions that the prosecutors are saying that Senator Menendez engaged in.

But it's incredibly serious when you are speaking of nonpublic information being provided to foreign actors. A point I noted in our earlier segment was you know the fact that at least one of these conversations that they recount is a phone call that happens to -- you know, to officials, I believe. It might have even been Egyptian officials directly outside of the presence of Senator Menendez and staff.

Now, look. As a former Senate staffer, I can tell you. You can't always control what the boss is doing. Sometimes he'll pick up the phone and place phone calls and so on. This goes beyond that when you're talking about, number one, the seriousness of it, and number two, the allegation that he was being directed to do so or at least being compensated or reimbursed for his doing so. It -- that really jumped out to me and is itself something that prosecutors I'm certain would hammer in front of the jury as very suspicious conduct from someone, as you said Kate, has an official position and has people around him that ought to be protect -- or you know, probably were attempting to protect him from engaging in conduct like this.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Evan Perez, a Mercedes, $500 in cash inside a jacket that says Senator Bob Menendez, and gold bars that the prosecutor laid out there showed the world. What did you see here?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, you know, one of the things that I think stood out in part of this indictment and what stands out from previous Bob Menendez investigations is this allegation that he was so involved in trying to help the government of Egypt, trying to get past their issues -- human rights issues, which was preventing some of the military aid. Millions and hundreds of millions of dollars that were being hung up because of human rights issues in Egypt.

And according to prosecutors -- here's a part that I think, really kind of encapsulates what prosecutors are going after here. They're say -- they say that at one point, Nadine, his wife, passes on a request for the Senator to edit a letter that was going to be sent to other senators to lobby them to basically unstick some of the hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid that the Egyptian government wanted from the U.S. government. And according to prosecutors, Menendez did that.

Now, look. We should just step back a little bit here. And Menendez is a guy -- is a Senator who looms large in a lot of this in New Jersey politics, obviously, but also in this relationship with the Justice Department. He's been under some kind of DOJ investigation for almost the entire time he's been in the U.S. Senate. As a matter of fact, when he ran in 2005 and he took first office in -- first took office in 2006, it was under the cloud of an investigation, which was later closed in 2011 just before his reelection.

So, this is not the first time that this -- the senator has been under the scrutiny of the Justice Department. As a matter of fact, it's something that he has been -- he has complained about. He says that they're after him -- the FBI is after him. And yet, according to prosecutors, he's undaunted by the fact that he has been under a lot of scrutiny from the FBI for various alleged schemes.

Again, he was elected under this cloud back in 2006 when he first took office. And it's continued -- almost continuously, I would say right after 2018, after the -- there was a hung jury in his last investigation, according to prosecutors, he begins this relationship with these businessmen in New Jersey that allegedly involved a lot of corruption, a lot of bribes, and money being passed through his wife, guys.

BOLDUAN: Yes. John Miller is here with us as well. And Evan is pointing out, John, just how long this man has been under some sort of investigation. And now, we have these new details and these images of what he allegedly accepted in these bribes. What do you see here?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So many things. And it's a stunning case with stunning allegations. But you know, keying off Evan, I was assistant director of the FBI when we had an open public corruption case against Menendez when he was in the House and sent that across the street to the Department of Justice. At that time, it was a Republican administration under Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. It went to the public corruption section. And they passed on the case.

[11:35:15]

But this was an investigation that we, as the FBI, thought was ready to go to trial. There were issues about how it would look to a Republican administration indicting a key member of the House and so on, and they just thought -- they thought better of going forward with it. From there, he went right into another investigation, which of course, you know, with the 2015 case, the alleged bribes and the trips and the free trips from the doctors. Some of the laws changed about the theft of honest services where it wasn't enough just to do favors and get favors back or more than that.

It had to be a quid pro quo, which is why this case -- the new case, must have such meaning because the quid pro quo requires prosecutors to be able to prove that you said, I will do this for you, you will give me this in return. And that has to be clearly established. I think pockets full of cash, you know, boxes full of gold is a key. But there's more to this, which is, it's not just a straight-up bribery case. That's where you get paid off, you do something -- by the way, the things he did could have been legal if he had not accepted money for it, allegedly.

The complicating factor is going to be the classified end of this, which is we're crossing over between regular public corruption, a public official takes money for somebody for favors, and into the international realm of espionage were allegedly somewhere in the back of this case, we're going to find our way to what Egyptian officials of the Egyptian Government made the intelligence determination to recruit a key U.S. official who they thought would be corruptible, perhaps based on his history, to do these favors, and to use businessmen on the ground here as cutouts to hide government officials. That's going to be the back end of this story. And we're not there yet.

BERMAN: Two things. One of the subjects was John Miller just alluded to there, Elliot. This is the Southern District of New York. And they made the case here that they pursue public corruption anywhere it is.

BOLDUAN: Right.

BERMAN: Now, they didn't talk in partisan terms. But the implication there for anyone who wants to pluck it out is there is a Democratic president. This is the U.S. Attorney in the Southern District filing an indictment against a Democratic senator. There is that.

On a separate point here, Elliot Williams, and I want to bring you in here. I think there are people who are reading through this indictment and seeing the pictures which the prosecutors really did throw out there so everyone could see it, the gold bars, and the hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash right there. And they see just that, and they say, well, wait a second, that's everything. I mean, if there's the gold bars in the $100,000, in cash, this must prove something.

WILLIAMS: Right.

BERMAN: Why still, even with the presence of these remarkable images, might it be hard to prove?

WILLIAMS: Because again, as -- it sort of made the point a couple of times here, many of these things are not on their face illegal. It is not illegal to have big stacks of even hundreds of thousands of dollars in your house. Now, it is suspicious in front of a jury. And frankly, in drug cases, you see this all the time, and narc narcotics that are said all the time where -- you know, when someone's got a big brick of cash. You know, it's not per se illegal, but it's something that triggers questions in a jury.

You know, to your point, John, talking about that letter that Senator Menendez wrote that Evan was referring to, a few moments ago, another fact is that he uses his personal e-mail account to transact information about this letter. He has official channels by which he can engage with staff, engage with people outside of Congress, but for whatever reason, chose to use personal e-mail addresses for this back and forth, which again, is another instance of at least questions of a guilty conscience a guilty mind and probably could help to establish that there was some unlawful exchange happening.

But you know to the broader point, and this is how conspiracies are built -- this is how circumstantial evidence in cases built on circumstantial evidence are built, individual things may not themselves be illegal but when you put them together -- you know, a sausage might itself taste good, but you put it with other ingredients and it becomes gumbo in a big pot. You need all these things together to establish the conspiracy to establish the chain of events, and each of them themselves does sort of like I said, there's no better way to put it, just look bad for the Senator.

BOLDUAN: Lauren, just -- if you got any reaction -- I mean, obviously everyone will be waiting to get a reaction from the senator himself. And you -- when -- are you hearing anything from his office?

[11:40:03]

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We are not hearing anything at this point. And obviously, you know, this is a serious matter. And there's a lot of questions about what's going to happen to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

As I noted earlier, you know, there is some you know feeling that they need to know sooner than later on the Republican side of things, who is going to be taking the helm of this committee. Under Senate rules, Menendez will have to temporarily step aside. He can continue to serve on the committee, but he can't continue to serve in his role as chairman.

So, there's a lot of questions about who will succeed him in the immediate future, in the past, and the next person in line would be Ben Cardin. He took over back in 2014 when Menendez was facing corruption charges, and he was the leading Democrat back then. Republicans control the Senate, so he was the ranking member. But it is going to be a key question.

And you know, Republican and Democratic senators, they aren't here in Washington today. They are back home. Because of the weekend, the Senate typically leaves Thursday around 2:00.

But it is important to note that Senator Tammy Baldwin, who our colleague Morgan Rimmer talked to, she said, these are very serious accusations. And obviously, senators are going to have some thoughts weighing in here when they return next week. BERMAN: All right. Lauren Fox, keep us posted if you hear anything. Elliot Williams, Evan Perez, and John Miller, our thanks to all of you. Obviously, there's a lot of information and reaction coming in. We continue to look through this indictment. And there's a lot of other news out there. So, we'll be right back.

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[11:46:08]

BERMAN: We have more breaking news. In less than 30 minutes, the United Auto Workers Union will expand its strike against General Motors and Stellantis. Workers at 38 GM and Stellantis parts and distribution centers are set to join the picket line. So, GM and Stellantis, but notably not Ford. CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich is all over this story and joins us with the details. Vanessa?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so 38 different facilities, just at GM and Stellantis across 28 -- excuse me, 20 states hitting the picket lines in just moments. This is obviously an escalation of the strike. However, notably, Ford is not involved in this portion of the targeted strike. This is going to be essentially 5,625 additional folks heading out to the picket lines joining about 12,700 who are already on the picket line.

BERMAN: That's so interesting. Sorry.

YURKEVICH: Yes.

BERMAN: So, it's actually -- it's a ton more places, but fewer workers that are already out.

YURKEVICH: Yes. So, these facilities have fewer folks working at them but they are all of the parts plants in terms of GM and Stellantis. So, you're adding to the folks on the picket line, but not the huge escalation that we saw in the beginning in terms of how many folks were on the picket line.

So, we know that from Shawn Fain who spoke moments ago that they're in a pretty good place with Ford. They feel like there's been substantial progress. That's why you're not seeing additional plants from Ford added to this targeted strike.

But in terms of what Ford is offering, they are reinstating COLA, cost of living adjustments, that were taken away in 2009. Many people thought that they couldn't get there. They're getting that back from Ford.

You're also seeing job security, the right to strike if there's any plant closures. And if there are layoffs, folks can receive up to two years of income and health care. And also, we're seeing profit sharing increase across the company and this transition from temporary employees to full-time employees. That will hopefully get those temporary workers' wages up. That's a lot of what the union has been asking for. Notably, we did not hear today at all about wages, though. If you remember, we were reporting that all the companies had offered 20 percent of wage increases, the union was asking for 40 percent, that was left out of today's announcement by Shawn Fain. And we heard from Fain and Ford, who said that there's still a large gap on those economic issues. Despite these really important things that the Union were able to get from Ford, the economic issues, the wages, not quite there yet.

BERMAN: All right. That is the question I was going to ask.

YURKEVICH: Yes.

BERMAN: They are far enough along with Ford not to expand the strike --

YURKEVICH: Right.

BERMAN: -- but not to end this strike.

YURKEVICH: No deal yet. No deal.

BERMAN: You know, in terms of GM and Stellantis, there is this expansion -- a targeted expansion.

YURKEVICH: Yes.

BERMAN: How did Fain sound in general, his attitude towards GM and Stellantis?

YURKEVICH: He said off the top that he believes that they can reach a deal with all three, but GM and Stellantis are particularly going to need a lot of pushing. They are essentially behind the offer that Ford has put on the table. He wants them to catch up.

And of course, he wants sports to go even further on the wages. So, he seems like he's making progress with Ford. That's why they're left out. GM and Stellantis seem like they have a long way to go though.

BERMAN: I have to say this feels like there's going to be a business school case study on this negotiation here for years to come as the UAW, kind of some against each other. Vanessa Yurkevich, great reporting. Thank you very much. Kate?

BOLDUAN: I'm bringing you the series "CHAMPIONS FOR CHANGE," spotlighting everyday people making a big difference in their community and far beyond. I want to highlight for you now our colleague Boris Sanchez and his champion with a deeply personal connection that Boris has to this story, and one woman working hard to help refugees find safety.

[11:50:11]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: I was three years old when my family came to the United States from Cuba. We landed in Miami actually on my birthday. What brought my family to the United States was a desire for freedom.

JOSE SANCHEZ, BORIS SANCHEZ'S FATHER: There's something very basic, very important that the human being needs. That is freedom.

B. SANCHEZ: My grandfather watched many of his friends either get beat up in the street or incarcerated or disappeared, simply for wanting to bring democracy. He took up arms and became a guerrilla fighter with a Manta.

J. SANCHEZ: that she --

B. SANCHEZ: Soon after the Cuban Revolution, he realized that it wasn't headed in that direction.

J. SANCHEZ: It was the complete opposite, a very repressive government. It is something very painful. He decided that he would speak out against it. And for that, he was punished that led him to being sentenced to 20 years in prison.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Many companions were put to death for the same.

B. SANCHEZ: Just like my grandfather, there are to this day, so many people around the world that are seeking refuge that are being persecuted and Muriel Saenz is helping those folks.

MURIEL SAENZ, IMMIGRANT ADVOCATE: I have become a Texan fully. When I left Nicaragua, I was 14 and I was adopted into this country. It's been a very good life here.

B. SANCHEZ: Until April of 2018.

SAENS: Yes. April 2018.

B. SANCHEZ: In 2018, the government in Nicaragua made a series of controversial decisions that led to an outpouring of protests and demonstrations in the streets. The government cracked down and hundreds were killed.

SAENZ: All these flashbacks of what happened when I was little, started coming to me and they diagnosed me with moderate to severe PTSD. I did live through the revolution in Nicaragua in 1979. I was 10 years old. He was just very scary.

I had to go to therapy, but the therapy wasn't helping me so I started helping other people. And I got very active on Twitter and Facebook. And I started receiving pictures of people that had been tortured or shot. People asking me for help.

B SANCHEZ: Muriel quit her job as an occupational therapist to focus on this full-time.

SAENZ: I helped them fill out their application for asylum. When I take down their testimonies and the reasons why they fled, it's very hard on them, and having for them to say how they were attacked or brutalized.

B. SANCHEZ: There was call after call after call, all while we were sitting there in front of her within the span of ten minutes.

SAENZ: Lawyers are really expensive. And these people have fled their countries with the clothes they have on. They have no money. So that's where I come in. Translating their documents and then later on helping them with a work permit.

B. SANCHEZ: She tells them where food pantries are where they can find medical services, and where their kids can get school supplies. She has given assistance to over a thousand asylum seekers.

RODOLFO CUADRA, NICARAGUAN REFUGEE: Never in my life, never, never have I thought of leaving Nicaragua and living in another country. We went out to protest and there were kilometers of people. And we thought that by protesting, we're going to be able to solve it.

They ambushed me, shot at me, and stoned me. I made 60, 70, 80 calls every day looking for an organization that would help me. They gave me Muriel's contact number and then Muriel helped me.

Muriel was an angel. I'm here. I've been here for years. I have a work permit. She did everything I needed to take my case to immigration.

SAENZ: If I can make it a little better and have that pain, not be there, then I want to be part of that.

B SANCHEZ: Muriel Saenz is a champion for change because she is changing lives. She's opening a door for people that are incredibly desperate for freedom, and giving them an opportunity.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: John and Kate, Muriel Saenz is amazing. She actually has gone back to school now to get certified to be a court representative so she can represent asylum seekers in court and facilitate that process for them. She's never met many of the thousand-plus people that she's helped. So, we actually made it easy for her to meet Rodolfo there.

And the thing that stands out to me is that between Muriel's story, Rodolfo's story, my own family's story, it's really just one story, a uniquely American one. One that's been told since the inception of this country, and I hope it's one that we never stop telling.

[11:55:09]

BERMAN: She's amazing, Boris. But if you'll allow me, I -- look, I think you are too. And seeing this and learning about you more --

SANCHEZ: Sure.

BERMAN: No, seriously. It's something that obviously you didn't know.

BOLDUAN: He's actually not joking, which is really nice this time.

BERMAN: Yes. I mean -- I mean, look. What you do as a journalist is so important.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

BERMAN: And it's all that much more meaningful because of where you come from and what your family went through and how hard they and you had to fight to be at this place.

SANCHEZ: Absolutely. And it's not a mission that I take lightly. You know, when I was named as a White House correspondent for CNN, the first person that I thought of crossing those gates was my grandfather and everything that he endured. So, as I said, it's not something I take lightly. And democracy, this American dream, it's a beautiful thing, and I think we got to defend it.

BERMAN: Good.

BOLDUAN: Yes. As messy as it can be. Thanks for sharing the story with all of us, Boris. It's good to see you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

BOLDUAN: Be sure to tune in -- tune in Saturday, 8:00 p.m. Eastern for the "CHAMPIONS FOR CHANGE," one-hour special.

BERMAN: "INSIDE POLITICS" is up next.

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