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Biden Joins Picket Line; Total Annihilation; Funding Fight; Ditching The Debate. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired September 26, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:42]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Next hour, President Biden leaves the White House and joined the picket line. It's never been done before by a sitting president. The historic move coming as a self-dubbed pro-union president (inaudible) key 2024 endorsements.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump is also headed to Michigan, which means he's ditching the Republican debate for a second time. His Republican rivals are preparing now for the big stage and the high stakes before them as fewer candidates are making the cut this time around.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking this morning, Hunter Biden is now suing Rudy Giuliani saying he tried to hack his laptop and committed a total annihilation of digital privacy. I'm John Berman with Sara Sidner and Kate Bolduan. CNN News Central starts now.

Breaking just moments ago, the announcement that Hunter Biden is suing Rudy Giuliani and his former lawyer for what he calls a total annihilation of his digital privacy. Allegations of hacking, manipulating and tampering with data that Biden's team says was taken or stolen. The move is the latest example of Hunter Biden going on offense as he faces new criminal charges.

CNN senior crime and justice reporter Katelyn Polantz joins us now. Tell us about this lawsuit, Katelyn?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, John, this is the latest and potentially the most high profile lawsuit that Hunter Biden has filed in recent weeks. He's been suing essentially over invasions of his privacy. In this case, he's suing Rudy Giuliani, Rudy Giuliani's companies and a lawyer who works with Rudy Giuliani or who had represented him until this summer, a man named Robert Costello.

And assuming all of those entities and those two men for invading his data, essentially what Hunter Biden lays out here is that, he says, Rudy Giuliani and Robert Costello got access to a hard drive or data taken from a laptop that Hunter Biden says he won't admit that that's his laptop. But at least some of the data that they got, he says, is his or was his. And then, Rudy Giuliani and Robert Costello, he says, then proceeded to get into that hack -- into that laptop in a way that he alleges is against the law, at least for the purposes of this lawsuit.

He says some of the reasons he has of knowing this is because Robert Costello, at one point in the New York magazine story, was logging into a laptop that he was saying was Hunter Biden's. Also Giuliani was talking about Hunter Biden's laptop and saying he had it on his podcast multiple times. And so, they're suing so that they can stop, that Hunter Biden is now trying to stop the continued access that he fears of his data.

One of the things he writes in this lawsuit his lawyers, right, is that there's no dispute that defendants have, at least to some extent, access, tampered with, manipulated, altered, copied and damaged plaintiffs data. So they're going to court against Rudy Giuliani, a man facing multiple lawsuits on many different fronts really buried under legal fees right now.

And it does come at the same time, of course, John, that Hunter Biden is facing his own criminal investigation, including some charges in Delaware and some ongoing Republican investigations on Capitol Hill.

BERMAN: You mentioned the legal challenges facing Rudy Giuliani, criminal and both civil, being sued by a lot of people. Including in this case, Robert Costello, the lawyer that Hunter Biden is suing. So Hunter Biden is suing both of them but Costello was also suing Rudy to get paid, right?

POLANTZ: He is indeed actually. That's right. So Rudy Giuliani has a lot of lawsuits that he's fighting right now. But he and Robert Costello -- Costello represented him for some time and says that there's $1.3 million in unpaid legal fees that Rudy Giuliani still owes them. So they're in court too. It's a tangle.

JACK WAGNER^ It is a tangle. Follow the bouncing ball or bouncing lawsuit. Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much for that. Sara?

SIDNER: All right. We're standing by for President Biden to leave the White House and head to Michigan next hour where he will soon join striking auto workers on the picket line.

[09:05:07]

This is unprecedented. No historian can remember a time when a sitting president has ever done this before.

But it's not only historic, it's a major 2024 test. Both Biden and the front runner in the GOP race, Donald Trump, are looking to win over working class voters with back to back trips to a critical swing state at a very crucial time. Trump's visits -- will visit Detroit tomorrow.

And right now as the UAW strikes against the nation's big three automakers, this strike is entering day 12. Keep in mind after just one week, estimated economic losses topped $1.6 billion. And we're now nearing the end of week two. CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich is live in Michigan, but first Jeremy Diamond for us at the White House.

Jeremy, Biden narrowly won Michigan in 2020. And a major union endorsement could help him, could it not, with the sort of struggling economic polling that we're seeing? What's the strategy here?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. There's no question about it, Sara. And this is believed to be the first time that a sitting president has joined a union picket line in history. And the White House says that this visit is an opportunity for President Biden to show his solidarity with those UAW workers, and certainly an opportunity for the President to display his pro-union bonafides, and to put those on display.

But there's also no question that this is an opportunity for President Biden to draw contrast with the man who is most likely at this point to become the Republican nominee in 2024. And that is Donald Trump. The former president is expected to head to Michigan tomorrow to deliver his own speech seizing on this UAW strike.

But President Biden -- White House officials say that his visit has nothing to do with that one. Nonetheless, they are taking this opportunity to dry contrast with the former president saying that the former president "talked big and delivered little," according to a White House factsheet released this morning, contrasting the policies of this president with the policies of the former president arguing that President Biden's policies have far more -- done far more to benefit unions and met domestic manufacturing.

Now, there is also this broader question of the President in stepping into this picket line, is he indeed endorsing all of the union's perspectives and all of their bargaining positions in these negotiations. The White House press secretary yesterday declining to get into that question, saying simply that this is an opportunity for President Biden to show that he stands with these union workers. The president for his party said, yes, I support, I always supported the UAW. Sara?

SIDNER: All right. Thank you so much, Jeremy. I want to head over now to Vanessa Yurkevich who is on the ground in Michigan. And just get a sense of what things look like now and what Biden will see when he lands there, or what the scene will look like.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, you have hundreds of UAW members at picket lines across Wayne County, Michigan, where the President is expected to arrive in just a few short hours today. I'm actually outside a Stellantis facility. This is one of the 38 new facilities that were authorized to go on strike on Friday. So, these folks have been out here for a couple of days.

Ford and General Motors, both saying that they want to keep the attention on negotiations with Stellantis out with a statement saying that President Biden in the first day of the strike said that he wanted to see a contract that supported the middle class. Stellantis saying that is exactly what they have put on the table.

I want to bring in Deanna Phillips. She has been with Stellantis for 13 years. You heard that the President is coming to town today, your reaction to that.

DEANNA PHILLIPS, 13-YEAR EMPLOYEE OF STELLANTIS: I think is great that he's coming today. I think that he would bring a lot of publicity and a lot of focus on, specifically for Stellantis, for Ford, for GM, to help us get to a contract that we deserve.

YURKEVICH: And for you, what is the most important thing that you want to see in any new deal that comes out of this?

PHILLIPS: More so pension and COLA. Coming in in 2010, we, of course, didn't have any pension after bankruptcy and everything. So I really like to see that, the cost of living has is tremendously high right now. So, yes, pension and COLA for all of us.

YURKEVICH: So it seems like setting you up for the future.

PHILLIPS: Yes, yes. Then that's up for the future. Again, it's ready for of course our kids and children later on that will probably more than likely be stepping in our footsteps and working here as well.

YURKEVICH: So potentially family members following in your footsteps. Thank you so much, Dianna.

PHILLIPS: Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

YURKEVICH: So, listen, negotiations still ongoing between the big three and the union as President Biden comes to town. There have been -- there's been some movement with Ford in terms of what they've put on the table. But GM and Stellantis, according to the union, still not offering a good enough proposal that the union could accept.

[09:10:08]

President Biden heading here today. President Trump coming to town tomorrow, but these picketers will be on the line 24/7 regardless. Sara?

SIDNER: Vanessa Yurkevich there in Warren, Michigan for us. Thank you so much for giving us a look on the ground and thank you to our Jeremy Diamond from the White House there. Kate?

BOLDUAN: So in Washington, they are back at it. Lawmakers headed back to Capitol Hill now with four days left before the government shuts down. With the House Republican majority still seemingly in paralysis on this, the Senate is now making moves to step in.

That twist could further imperils Speaker McCarthy's job. But he's tried and failed for weeks now to unite his conference. So he may be out of options. CNN's Lauren Fox tracking this back with us once again. Lauren, what are you hearing about what is happening behind the scenes now in that -- well, now in both the House and Senate?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, the focus right now, Kate, is really in the United States Senate. That is where negotiators from Minority Leader Mitch McConnell's office in Majority Leader Chuck Schumer's office are working frantically. They worked late into the night to try to find a path forward on a short term spending bill that could get out of the Senate quickly gets sent to the house. And then the big question, of course becomes will House Speaker Kevin McCarthy put it on the floor.

Now, that is assuming that the Senate can pass something. What they're looking at right now is a 45 day bill that would keep the government open for just a couple of weeks, and then give them additional time to have further negotiations on the full year spending package. Of course, there's a question, would that be enough time. These negotiations are very fluid and the timeline, of course for this could shift.

But another thing to keep in mind here is that Ukraine funding, including the $24 billion in supplemental that the White House has requested could complicate the Senate's effort to move this forward quickly, which is why they may not include the full amount, they may not include all of Ukraine funding, if any, given the fact that Senator Rand Paul, a conservative, has already threatened to slow walk this process in the Senate if Ukraine funding is a piece of it.

Now, Democrats and Republicans who support Ukraine funding view it as essential. There's a support for it but there may not be the time to move this through the Senate.

So all of this is very much in flux, these negotiations are still happening, they're still ongoing. Things can always change. But watch for whether or not that Ukraine funding piece is attached to this short term spending bill, as negotiators in the Senate are hoping to get something over to the house very quickly.

Meanwhile, in the House of Representatives, still no agreement from Republicans on a short term solution, which means McCarthy could be in a position where he's jammed by the Senate. He gets this bill and then he has to decide is he going to put it on the floor and potentially risk ending his speakership, or does he hold back and love the government shutdown.

So that is really the prospect that we're facing right now. The shutdown could start midnight on Saturday. Kate?

BOLDUAN: All right. Lauren, let's see what happens. Thank you so much. John?

BERMAN: All right. With us now Deputy Pentagon Press Secretary Sabrina Singh. Sabrina, thank you so much for being with us.

The White House put out what they're calling a factsheet today, that notes that if there was a shutdown Saturday night, 1.3 active duty members of the military, not to mention tens of thousands of other employees will not get paid. What would that do to readiness and morale?

SABRINA SINGH, DEPUTY PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Well, thanks, John, so much for having me on and appreciate the opportunity to talk about this, because the shutdown really does have impacts on our service members in uniform and our civilians. We're talking about over 1 million military members that would go without pay during the time of a shutdown. And our furloughed civilian employees would also not be receiving pay during this time. So that absolutely has an impact on when it comes to our national security and our readiness with not enough people being in their stations or in their command posts to continue the mission. But also it has a huge impact on families. We have to remember these service members, these civilians are still members of our community that pay rent, that have mortgages to pay child care schools for their children. So the shutdown has real world impacts and impacts right here at home in our communities.

BERMAN: Now, in 2013 when there was a shutdown, Congress passed a measure just before the actual shutdown, saying that military members would still get paid even in the event of a shutdown. Is that something you would support to pass a measure, basically an exception for the military even if there is a shutdown?

SINGH: Well, look, let's be clear, we shouldn't even be talking about that. What we should be talking about as a fully-funded appropriations bill that funds our government, that funds our military. We're always going to support any measure to protect our military or national security and our readiness.

[09:15:00]

But when it comes to a government shutdown, I think this really sends a message to allies and adversaries across the board. Because right now, if the US government shuts down, China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, these are countries that are not shutting down, that are continuing their operations. And so any type of shutdown, any type of impact to our military and our readiness, has huge profound impacts across the globe.

BERMAN: Understood. But you're not ruling out supporting what would be a carve out for military members?

SINGH: Right. Of course we're going to always support any pay for our military families. We know these are times when again, bills have to be met, mortgages have to be paid, child care needs to be paid for, our service members who have children. So, of course, we're going to support efforts to help our service members.

But again, we really shouldn't be in this position. Our fiscal year comes around every single year at the same time. It's really time to get an on time fully-funded appropriations bill over the finish line to fund the government.

BERMAN: So it's hard to keep track of exactly where negotiations stand right now. But one possibility is the Senate puts forth a temporary continuing resolution, please forgive me and my audience for all the jargon here. But what that would mean is that, there would be government funding for the next 40 days. But it's possible within that temporary fix, no new or not a lot of money for Ukraine.

What message would that send if Congress passes, even for 45 days, new funding but nothing really for Ukraine?

SINGH: Look, I think Republican leader -- Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said it best, support for Ukraine is not charity. Support for Ukraine is in our national interest. We cannot allow Russia to continue to expand and to continue to wage its unprovoked war in Ukraine. If Russia succeeds, it has profound consequences for Europe and in the United States.

And so, we urge Congress to continue to support funding for Ukraine. So far, the Congress both has received bipartisan and bicameral support for Ukraine. We believe the efforts in our security packages are continuing to help Ukraine on the battlefield to meet its immediate needs, and also support Ukraine for the long term.

So, we would really urge Congress to continue to fund and support our efforts to help Ukraine in their unprovoked and unjustified fight against Russia.

BERMAN: I want to ask you about a comment that a political candidate made about an active duty general, talking about Donald Trump, who was the former president of United States. He was talking about the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Mark Milley, who does leave, retire this week. But as of now, still there.

Trump was talking about Milley's conversations with China around January 6, 2021. Trump said, "This is an act so egregious that in times gone by the punishment would have been death. A war between China and the United States would have been the result of this treasonous act."

What's your response to a political candidate, accusing an active duty general, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs basically, of treason?

SINGH: Look, General Milley has served honorably under multiple administrations enjoyed bipartisan support in his confirmation hearings as well. We've been incredibly honored to have him here as our chairman. He has been an incredible person to work alongside with to see exactly, you know, his experience brought to the table when it comes to Ukraine, when it comes to other national security threats facing our country.

General Milley is a true patriot. We, of course, are going to see him leaving on Friday with a change of responsibility and have an incoming chairman with Chairman CQ brown coming in. We're very excited for him as well.

But again, I think General Milley has honorably served his country and I'll just leave it at that.

MACCALLUM: Sabrina Singh, we appreciate you being with us this morning. Thank you. Kate?

SINGH: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, the second Republican debate stage is now officially set. Who will be back at it tomorrow and who will be out. Plus, "I don't want people to know we lost, Mark. This is embarrassing." That is what Cassidy Hutchinson says Donald Trump admitted about the election in 2020. More details from her new book is next.

And this morning, Russia is trying to prove one of its top military commanders is still alive despite Ukraine claiming he was killed in a strike on a Black Sea fleet. Why this is so important to the fight right now? We'll be right back.

[09:19:28]

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BOLDUAN: The stage is set for the second Republican primary debate. Overnight the RNC released the list of the seven candidates who qualified and here they are right there. Doug Burgum, Chris Christie, Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy, Tim Scott and Chris -- Mike Pence, all made the cut and will take the debate stage tomorrow at the Reagan Presidential Library in California.

Asa Hutchinson, who was right there with them all in the first debate one month ago, did not meet the party's requirements this time, falling below the polling threshold. And clearly there is one notable absence, the Republican frontrunner from that list, Donald Trump skipping the debate again. Instead, he'll be speaking to auto workers in Detroit.

Joining us now is Washington Post White House Bureau Chief Toluse Olorunnipa. So, Toluse, how has the, Republican primary, how the dynamics, if you want to call them that, shifted since the first debate one month ago, if at all?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, WASHINGTON POST WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF: Well, it looks more and more like Donald Trump is the runaway favorite. He his poll numbers have only increased even though he did not participate in that last debate. And he's running for the general. So if any of these candidates want to make a move on Trump, they need to do so now because there's not much time between now and the early voting states, Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada.

It's very clear that there's not much time for these candidates to set themselves apart from the pack. We have seen some movement with some candidates like Nikki Haley having a strong debate performance last month, and being able to sort of showcase that she is trying to make that move.

[09:25:07]

But right now, all of these other candidates including Ron DeSantis, who seems to be sort of sliding in the polls are really just competing for second place at this point and not really competing for the top spot, which is held pretty strongly by Trump.

BOLDUAN: Yes, and consistently throughout and in all polls. Let me ask you about Ron DeSantis and his campaign right now. His campaign manager released a memo to donors and supporters ahead of this debate tomorrow. And in the memo, his campaign manager attacks Trump directly, which is interesting, and also argues this. "The fundamentals of this battle for the GOP nomination have not changed since the last debate. Ron DeSantis is the only candidate that can beat both Joe Biden and Donald Trump."

How strong of a case can they make for that still right now?

OLORUNNIPA: It's harder to make that argument today than it was a month ago, and it's harder to make it today than when he launched his campaign when he was much higher in the polls. And he did seem like the top alternative to Donald Trump.

We've seen other candidates, Nikki Haley, Tim Scott, trying to make moves and even be like Ramaswamy, rising in the polls and trying to present themselves as the alternative to Trump. And so, I think that campaign manager deciding to take Trump on in a more direct way. May preface what we might see during the actual debate with other candidates as well, realizing that they're running out of time to take Trump on directly. And because he's not in the room, he won't be able to defend himself.

And I think that will be what separates this debate from the last debate. These candidates realizing that they need to take on Trump because he is the leading candidate and he does seem to be already pivoting towards the general election right now.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Because if they continue to pitch themselves as I'm just like him but better, that means really, it likely will mean the same result after the first debate, which is it did not show that any of them were -- any -- show themselves any more of a threat to Donald Trump in terms of the primary.

So, Asa Hutchinson, he fell short of making this stage, falling short of the polling requirement, which, according to the RNC, was reaching at least 3% support in a variety of polls. He told CNN last night that this, though he's not making the stage, does not mean the end of his campaign. Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASA HUTCHINSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know that there's going to be those that says we ought to step aside. But whenever you look at the role that Iowa and New Hampshire plays, we're going to continue to compete there and measure it based upon the response we get no states.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Look, things can change, of course, but what does history tell us, presidential history tells us about how long candidates who can't make the debate stage are pulling under 3%? How long they can hold on?

OLORUNNIPA: Not long. We're getting very close to the time when people actually start voting early votes in some of these states will be starting in a matter of months. And, you know, if you're not even able to make the debate stage because you're not polling very strongly, it doesn't signify a strong level of support that you'll have if people start voting.

So, I do think that this field is going to start whittling very quickly. And the folks on the debate stage will be the ones that we're looking at when we talk about voting in the next few months.

BOLDUAN: Toluse, thank you so much. It's good to see you. The debate is tomorrow. And, John, you kind of need to see an example of how Donald Trump not showing up is going to hurt him because clearly we have not seen that yet.

BERMAN: Not yet, that's for sure.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

BERMAN: So, Mark Meadows burned so many documents on his way out of the White House, his wife complained his clothes smelled like smoke. That is a new allegation from the brand new book by former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson.

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