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Hutchinson Reveals Details on White House; Russia Releases Video with Admiral Sokolov; Dylan Corbett is Interviewed about the Migrant Influx. Aired 9:30-10a ET
Aired September 26, 2023 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:30:00]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Eye-opening new revelations in the brand new book from former Trump White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson. She, of course, delivered damming testimony before the House January 6th Committee. Now she paints a picture that might be even worse than her testimony. She quotes her former boss, former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, as saying, "Cass, if I can get through this job and manage to keep Trump out of jail, I'll have done a good job." And after a 2020 campaign rally Meadows reportedly asked her, quote, "would you take a bullet for him," meaning Trump. She says she tried to joke back saying, "could it be to the leg?" Meadows then responded that he would, quote, "do anything" to get Trump re-elected.
CNN's Sara Murray is with us now with some of the details in this new book.
Sara.
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John. I mean it really is a picture of chaos in the Trump White House, especially in the final weeks. I mean there's this whole anecdote where Cassidy Hutchinson is laying out how her direct boss, again White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, is burning tons of documents in his final weeks in the White House and that even Meadows' wife takes notice of this. At one point she comes to Meadows' White House chief of staff office to help him pack things up and tells Cassidy, "Mark doesn't need to burn anything else. All of his suits smell like a bonfire."
Now, a spokesperson for Meadows is pushing back on this, saying this is an absurd mischaracterization. They're saying that Meadows' wife was just referring to how the wood fireplace in the White House chief of staff's office makes everything smell smoky.
But Cassidy Hutchinson was on MSNBC last night and she was asked about the pushback that Mark Meadows' spokesperson was putting forward about this anecdote and a number of others.
[09:35:01]
Take a listen to what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE AIDE: You know, I would encourage him to go testify under oath if he thinks that what is in the book and what I have testified to under oath, which is consistent with what is in the book, he can go testify under oath if he has strong feelings about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: Now, obviously, Cassidy Hutchinson has shared her version of events very publicly, both in front of the January 6th Committee, she's talked to federal prosecutors, she's testified before a grand jury in Georgia, and now we have this book. We also know that Mark Meadows testified earlier this year before a federal grand jury, but we know very little about what he said and what he may have said about the accounts that he - that investigators have heard from Cassidy Hutchinson. And there's very little from Meadows mentioned in either of the Trump indictments when it comes to the classified documents or January 6th.
John.
BERMAN: All right, much more on this coming. Sara, thank you very much.
At 4:00 p.m. Eastern you can see Jake Tapper's interview with Cassidy Hutchinson on "The Lead."
Kate.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Sara's going to -
BERMAN: Sara.
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: I'll take over. It's not problem.
BERMAN: Sara. Kate. Kate. Sara.
SIDNER: Either one of us is fine.
BOLDUAN: John.
BERMAN: I'm John.
SIDNER: New this morning, there is speculation and doubt over Ukraine's claims that Black Sea Fleet Commander Admiral Viktor Sokolov was killed in a recent missile attack in Sevastopol. On Friday, Ukraine attacked the Russia's critical Black Sea Fleet, causing major damage and they claimed they killed the admiral.
BERMAN: But this morning the Russian Defense Ministry released a video that proports to show Sokolov attending a military meeting via video link. Now Ukraine's special operations forces say they're -- they're trying to clarify the information. A new statement says sources claim that Sokolov is among the dead and that many victims have not been identified. CNN cannot independently confirm whether it's him in the video, when
it was recorded or, for that matter, Ukraine's claims.
BOLDUAN: Here with us now in New York, though he is often in Ukraine and also in Moscow, is CNN's Matthew Chance.
Matthew, the fact that this admiral is the center of it all is the significance. Alive or dead, we'll - let's talk first about him, the admiral. Why is he so important to Russia's war effort?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: He's important because he is the commander of the most powerful part of Russia's navy, its Black Sea Fleet, which has played a pivotal role in striking Ukraine and supporting the Russia invasion of Ukraine. And so, obviously, he's a very high-profile target for the Ukrainians.
Back on Friday we saw the Ukrainian military use western-provided long-range missiles to strike at the building which houses the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet. It's in Sevastopol, in Crimea, which Russia occupied back in 2014. Completely destroyed the building. An astonishingly symbolic strike in which the Russians say one person went missing. And so there's some doubt about that when you look at the pictures of the huge explosions.
The Ukrainian, you know, authorities came out, the intelligence services came out and said actually we killed Admiral Sokolov and a couple of dozen other senior figures as well. Now, that's not been confirmed to us by the Russians and it seems now that Sokolov, if this video is accurate, is alive as it appears on the television (ph). But it does underline the fact that it isn't just a firing war, it's not just a shooting war, it's an information war as well. Both sides are sort of taking part in that.
SIDNER: Speaking of an information war, so many of the political opponents to Putin have either been killed, have been jailed, have been silenced, one of whom is Alexei Navalny, one of perhaps the most famous political opposition leaders. He is in prison. You have even visited outside of the prison trying to get more information. Now he is going to be in court. Can you give us some sense of why he's in court and what - what is happening there?
CHANCE: Yes, I mean, Alexei Navalny is by far the most high-profile opposition figure in Russia today, but he's in prison and his organization -- his anti-corruption organization has been silenced. Its offices around the country have been closed down. Many of his supporters, activists, have gone into exile.
But he's in prison for 19 years. What he regards as a life sentence. Now, this is a - a sort of an appeal against that extension of his sentence to 19 years. I mean I don't think for one second, I don't think anybody does, that that appeal is going to be - be granted. But it's just another reminder that Alexei Navalny is still there. He is still managing to get his - his message out.
SIDNER: His message out. CHANCE: And, you know, the authorities still regard him as a major challenge. Now, I mean, I think one of the sort of more interesting questions that we've come across over the past few months is the idea that he could be swapped. He's no longer effective really in Russia. And there is this idea floating around that he could be part of a broader prisoner swap with the Americans that are being held in Russian jails, Paul Whelan and Evan Gershkovich, and other people as well, in exchange for sort of assets or people that the Russian's might want too.
[09:40:03]
And so that's something that's going on in the background as well.
In the meantime, this charade (ph) of justice seeing - we're seeing played out in Russia will continue.
BERMAN: Look, Evan Gershkovich is one of those people in a Russian prison right now. Six months, in fact, he has been imprisoned by Russia, "The Wall Street Journal" reporter. And there was a hearing just last week. You were in that room, yes? You saw him behind that Plexiglas. What was that like?
CHANCE: It was very weird. I mean, actually, they kicked me out very quickly. I walked in. I was allowed to go in.
BOLDUAN: Yes.
CHANCE: I wasn't breaking the rules.
SIDNER: Yes.
CHANCE: And I said, hello, Evan, is everything all right? My cameraman was filming the courtroom. They did not like that at all. They expect -
BOLDUAN: You - you speaking to him?
SIDNER: That you spoke to him?
CHANCE: They didn't like me speaking. They didn't like the cameraman I was with filming the court. They wanted you to go in, point the camera at Evan Gershkovich, not say anything, and walk out again. But it's very difficult to do that. I mean he's a colleague who I've known. And, you know, he's somebody - I just said, hello, you know?
SIDNER: Yes.
CHANCE: And it's just an odd thing to expect me to do, to go in there and point a camera at this sort of person in a cage and then walk away. So, I didn't do that. They kicked us out very quickly.
But, again, you know, it just shows you how secure and how sensitive they are to you kind of revealing what's going on behind the curtain in the Russian justice system. SIDNER: Even seeing a reporter like that who, "The Wall Street
Journal" is like, look, he was just doing his job, in that glass cage, is pretty striking to see that there.
CHANCE: Sure.
SIDNER: It's chilling.
CHANCE: It is.
SIDNER: Thank you so much, Matthew Chance. We're happy you're here in New York and safe.
BERMAN: Emmy Award deserving Matthew Chance, that's how we're supposed to say.
SIDNER: Agreed.
CHANCE: Well, I'll be - you can pass that on to the judges.
BERMAN: You can pass that on to the judges. WE will.
BOLDUAN: Noted. Good to see you, Matthew.
Coming up still for us, the mayor of El Paso, Texas, says that his city has hit its breaking point. Thousands of migrants are surging into that city once again. A third wave that non-profit groups saw coming. So, what are they doing now that the wave seems to be crashing? We'll take you there.
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[09:46:11]
SIDNER: This morning the mayor of El Paso is describing the strain the recent increase in migrants is causing as they continue to see thousands of people crossing the border into that city each and every day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR OSCAR LEESER (D), EL PASO, TEXAS: And the team here in El Paso has done an incredible job. The city, the county, we all work together to make sure that we provide a bed and a warm meal for everyone. And it -- but we are at a breaking point. We - we're - we're running out of hotels. We're running out of space. And when I talked to Chief Owens from the Border Patrol, he told us to prepare for about 2,000 crossings a day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: You heard him there telling CNN this morning that they're at a breaking point. The mayor also said the city purchased a former middle school to use as an emergency migrant shelter to help people get off the streets and give them the resources they need. Joining me now is Dylan Corbett, the founding executive director of
Hope Border Institute, a non-profit that works to help migrants between Ciudad Juarez and El Paso.
Thank you so much for joining me this morning.
We are looking at some of the pictures from Eagle Pass in Texas and the Rio Grande there, and people just lining up, frankly, at border walls. Dylan, you're seeing this surge that a lot of people are talking about. You just heard the mayor there saying, look, we're at a breaking point at this point. We're in a crisis. What are you seeing?
DYLAN CORBETT, FOUNDING DIRECTOR, HOPE BORDER INSTITUTE: Yes, good morning.
It's true, the numbers right now are high. They're certainly nothing to sneeze at. Here in El Paso, the community is mobilizing. We're doing what we can to meet the needs of the moment. And there are going to be days that are going to be tricky. You know, there are going to be days that are difficult, where you don't know if you're going to be able to find a bed for everyone, or a meal for every family. But I can tell you that, you know, by the grace of God we're usually able to get it done.
You do have cities and you do have counties here in the border that are making emergency declarations, but there's usually a very pragmatic, a very practical reason for that. In places like El Paso, it allows our local communities to access more resources, to open up more shelter spaces, to provide more transportation options when we have to process people more quickly when the numbers go up.
So, the situation is urgent. The numbers are real. But I can say that here -- here at the border, in our border community here in El Paso, the city and the county are doing great work to process people humanely. Churches, NGOs, you know, they're doing what they do best, which is to provide people a warm welcome, a hot meal, a place to sleep until folks are ready to move on. So, despite the challenges, right now we're all trying to row in the same direction and we're trying to make this work.
SIDNER: There was a lot of concern as Title 42 ended that we would see this huge surge. We didn't. And now suddenly it is back again with really high numbers. We were hearing from our reporter, Rosa Flores, who has visited the border and been on the border many, many, many times that there are a couple of things that are happening, that smugglers are starting these rumors again to get people to go and pay their way to go to the border, and that video being sent by friends -- to friends and family from those who have made it over the border showing that they are safe has also helped to increase people's desire and hope that they're going to get over the border. I'm curious what you think the reason is for this latest major surge.
CORBETT: Yes, I want to make sure we don't lose sight of the human dimension of all this. Everything you said is certainly true. But let's remember, these are human beings. A lot of them are coming from Venezuela. You know, there's a global crisis right now in Venezuela. After Ukraine it's probably the largest migration crisis in the world right now. Over the last ten years, you know, 7 million people have fled that country.
[09:50:01]
And these are just human beings who want to be part of our community, you know, because we're the United States of America. And here there's still opportunity. There's still safety. There's still a chance to raise your family with dignity. There's still a chance to get a decent wage for a good day's work.
We've got a complicated patchwork of policies here at the border. And you can't always control the numbers or the flow. But in some ways, too, what we're seeing at the border is situations of our own creation. Remember, we still have the asylum ban that's in place. And so we're making people wait in dangerous communities in northern Mexico for limited CBP One appointments. We've got, for some reason, you know, Governor Abbott to competing with North Korea to create the most militarized border here in the world with things like razor wire and National Guard and buoys in the river. You know, those things create bottlenecks and they really hindering our ability to process people, especially when they cross the border in large groups out of desperation. It's just not smart policy.
SIDNER: It's interesting that you mentioned Venezuelan, because that has been the number of people that our reports have been talking to as well. A lot of the surge are Venezuelans just trying to escape that country.
Thank you so much, Dylan Corbett, for your insight into what is happening there on the border in the border town where you live.
John.
BERMAN: Sara, people who lost everything in the fires on Maui return to their homes for the first time.
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[09:55:24]
BERMAN: (INAUDIBLE) this morning, as residents of Lahaina, on Maui, were allowed back to their homes, or what's left of them, for the first time since the devastating fires.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had a home with a yard, and a neighborhood. And it's not possible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know it's going to break our family apart.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just can't believe it's gone. It's heartbreaking, you know. All our memories were here.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: You can see the people wearing protective gear because of toxic ash.
The governor there says it might take about three months for everybody to get back to be able to see what's left. Nearly 16,000 people in the state have registered with FEMA for federal assistance.
Kate.
BOLDUAN: Also on the radar this hour, the call for Senator Bob Menendez to resign are growing. Just now a fifth Democratic senator has publicly said that the New Jersey senator should step aside in the wake of the indictment against him on bribery charges. Montana's Jon Tester is the latest to speak out. But also just this morning, Vermont's Peter Welch, Wisconsin's Tammy Baldwin also soke out saying the allegations undermine Menendez's ability to serve. And here too is former Democratic House Speaker, and very influential Democrat, Nancy Pelosi.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): And the charges are formidable.
And it probably would be a good idea if he did resign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Yesterday, Bob Menendez, though, insisted he will be exonerated and said he has no plans to step aside.
A third person has been arrested and charged in the death of a one- year-old boy who was exposed to fentanyl at his daycare in New York. Police say this person, we're going to show you, and one additional person was part of the group storing and selling drugs from the childcare facilities. But officials also released new photos of another suspect that they're still searching for connected to this horrific tragedy. The person that they're looking for is the husband of the owner of the daycare. She's already charged. Police say they believe he is seen here in these images carrying out a bag that they believe had fentanyl in it out of the facility that very same day that this happened before emergency responders arrived on the scene.
Sara.
SIDNER: Next hour, President Biden leaves for Michigan to join autoworkers on the picket line. A look at the White House strategy behind what is an unprecedented move. That's ahead.
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