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Soon, Biden Leaves White House to Join Striking Auto Workers in Michigan; Congress Back in Session With Four Days Until Possible Shutdown; Hunter Biden Lawsuit Accuses Giuliani of Hacking into Laptop. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired September 26, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: The strike was already historic. Never before have the big three automakers face the strike all at once. And now historians say there is another historic move. A sitting U.S. president is going to walk the picket line with striking union members. We're live in Michigan as Biden departs the White House this hour.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. A government shutdown just days away. The Senate might have a plan, but it is a plan that might make it even harder for House Speaker Kevin McCarthy to keep his job.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: A total annihilation of digital privacy. That is what Hunter Biden is now saying, as he is suing Rudy Giuliani, claiming that he and his lawyers tried to hack under Biden's devices.

I'm Kate Bolduan with Sara Sidner and John Berman. This is CNN News Central.

SIDNER: This hour, President Biden leaves the White House to make history in Michigan. After landing in Detroit, he will head directly to a picket line to join auto workers on strike.

There is no record as of now of a sitting president ever doing this before. And he'll do it less than 24 hours before his biggest 2024 rival arrives for his trip to the battleground. Donald Trump is going to the swing state tomorrow as both he and Biden look to woo working class voters with back-to-back trips to Detroit.

Up for grabs, a key 2024 UAW endorsement as union members today enter day 12 of their strike.

CNNs Arlette Saenz and Kristen Holmes are both in Michigan ahead of Biden and Trump's visits.

Arlette, I'm going to begin with you. Biden arrives first. So, give us some sense of the message that we expect to hear from the president as he gets on those picket lines and talks to some of the striking union members. ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, President Biden is hoping to demonstrate a show of solidarity with the striking auto workers as he becomes the first U.S. president in history to walk a picket line.

And part of the president's mission during this trip here to Michigan, a critical battleground state, is to try to appeal to those working class voters that were pivotal in the past election, helping him get into the White House.

Now, we're still waiting to learn some details of where exactly President Biden will be in Wayne County. We were expected to be here in this area, but he will be appearing with the UAW president, Shawn Fain. Shawn Fain's union has yet to give an endorsement in this race. So, that is part of the president's hopes heading into the 2024 campaign as he seeks to rally the labor movement around him.

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But there also will be a remarkable political split screen that is playing out here in the state of Michigan over these next 24 hours. The White House has said that this trip is not about former President Donald Trump coming here tomorrow. They say the president is focused on the workers.

But the White House has been eager to draw contrast with the former president, with one White House official saying that he talked big and delivered little. You've heard the White House trying to contrast the two records of the men while they have been in office.

But at the same time, the White House and the president have been walking a very fine line with these negotiations. They say that they have been supportive of the negotiations but they can't do very much to actually get into the nitty-gritty of the back and forth of the negotiation between the auto companies and these unions.

But yesterday, while the White House said that the president does support these workers, they so far have refrained from weighing on these specific demands made by the UAW. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He is standing with the workers. We are not involved in negotiations. That is something for them to decide what is going to work for the parties that are involved. But he is standing with the auto workers. That's what the president is doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: So, we will see what specific message the president will bring here to Michigan to these auto workers as we are expecting in just a few hours, the first phase of that split screen to play out as both Biden and Trump are making their appeal to working class voters.

SIDNER: All right, and we can hear some of the support from those who are driving by with all those honking horns. Thank you for getting through that for us, Arlette.

Let's go now to Kristen Holmes. You are going to be there as Donald Trump arrives and makes his pitch to voters in Michigan. What will that look like?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Sarah. Despite the fact that Donald Trump has clashed with unions in the past, despite the fact that union leaders have slammed his administration for being largely much more pro-business, anti-union or at least anti-labor, he believes that there are voters that he can woo away, and that it's working class voters, union members, from Joe Biden, even though Joe Biden has made supporting unions an economic cornerstone of his policies.

Now, the reason for that is threefold. One, they talk about 2016 when they were able to get a record number of these working class voters, union members to vote for Donald Trump. They want to go back to that. They want to make those same pitches. They also point to the fact that they believe that there are cracks in the system right now. Yes, UAW did endorse Biden back in 2020, but they haven't endorsed yet, as Arlette just mentioned. So, they believe that because of that, there are some cracks there.

They also point to the fact that they believe that they can drive a wedge between leadership in these unions and the rank and file members. And that is why they're going to be slamming certain policies of Joe Biden's because there is a belief there that these electric vehicles, this call to have an electric fleet of American cars, is something that auto workers don't want and will cost them jobs. And that's what they are really going to focus on.

I'm also told that they're going to focus on the economy, talking about inflation, talking about Trump's record when it comes to the economy and interest rates as well.

Now, whether or not this is going to play out, whether or not he's able to get the same numbers as 2016, that just still remains to be seen. Because the difference between now and 2016 is Trump has his own record in his own administration.

But that is what he's going to portray. He is going to say that he is pro-worker and pro-job and then try to contrast himself with President Biden saying that he is not and that those policies will actually take away those jobs.

SIDNER: Thank you so much, Kristen Holmes, there for us in Detroit and to Arlette Sines, who is in Wayne, Michigan, awaiting the arrival of President Biden. John?

BERMAN: So, this morning, a government shutdown is just four days away and nothing that House Speaker Kevin McCarthy has tried so far has worked to get the Republican caucus to prevent it.

But this morning, there are signs that the Senate might step in with a plan. However, it's a plan that might put McCarthy in an even bigger jam, one that might cost him his job. CNN's Manu Raju all over this on Capitol Hill this morning, stuffs happening, Manu.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Look, Kevin McCarthy is in the middle of a collision course between the House and the Senate and it's unclear exactly how this will be resolved and if it will be resolved in time for it to prevent a government shutdown, which would occur at 11.59 P.M. on Saturday.

The two strategies much different across the Capitol, Kevin McCarthy is still trying to get Republican support to pass a short-term spending bill, but he needs his narrowly divided conference to get on board. But there are a handful of holdouts that are not giving him the votes to do just that. He has added things in this stopgap measure to cut federal spending, to add border security measures to try to sweeten the pie for those members, but they simply will not go along.

But because he had added those measures, that is not enough to win Democratic support.

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And the question now is if the Senate moves and approves a bipartisan proposal as they are now trying to do, how will McCarthy respond and will he agree to move forward on a bill with Democratic support?

There are warnings, though, John, that if he were to do that, that could cost him his job. Those are warnings coming from the right flank.

And when I asked the speaker about this yesterday, whether or not this is driving his decision not to work with Democrats, he contended that it was not.

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RAJU: How much is the fact that if you do cut a deal with Democrats, there could be a vote to push you out? How much is that driving your decision-making right now?

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Nothing drives my decision. If that was driving my decision, wouldn't that have driven my decision-making 15 times before? My --

RAJU: But you could have cut a deal with Democrats and that could be the end of it.

MCCARTHY: Did I cut a deal then? Did I cut a deal then?

RAJU: When, when for the --

MCCARTHY: When I went 15 rounds --

RAJU: No, I'm talking about right now. Because of the --

MCCARTHY: But let me explain some to you. I'm no different than I was then or before. My whole focus, what's in my mind, what drives me is the American people. I'm not worried if someone makes a motion. I'm not worried if somebody votes no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, across the Capitol, Senator McConnell, the Republican leader, and Senator Schumer, the Democratic leader, are in talks and are close to reaching a deal to keep the government open for 45 days. But that would extend current funding levels. It would not cut spending as the House Republicans are demanding.

And therein lies the flashpoint, John, as they run into this government funding deadline. Unclear how McCarthy will respond if the Senate passes that bill. Will he cave and give into that pressure and will that cost him his job, all major questions looming over the speaker. John?

BERMAN: Look, we just don't know. I mean, right now, there does not appear to be a path for McCarthy to keep his job and avert a shutdown by Saturday night. But things could shift and change, Manu. We know you'll keep us posted. Thank you. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Joining us right now, Democratic Congressman from New Jersey Josh Gottheimer. He's a co-chair of the House Problem Solvers Caucus, which has been central in trying to reach a bipartisan short-term agreement to avoid a government shutdown. Congressman, thank you so much for coming in.

Does anything feel different today to you compared to last week?

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): Well, I mean, the real test will be when we get back tonight and when they start putting up bills and see if the ultra right wing Freedom Caucus, who's been blocking all progress, if they'll continue to block it. And that's going to be the question.

And then, ultimately, as Manu just pointed out, the speaker is going to have to decide, does he want to side with the folks who, as he said, want to burn the place down or with common sense, reasonable bipartisan solutions.

We put forward the Problem Solvers Caucus, with the 64 members, half Democrat and half Republican, a very reasonable bipartisan proposal last week. It would get votes from Democrats and Republicans and stop a shutdown.

And I think that's the real test, is like we have to make sure we stop a government shutdown and stop the huge impact it would have on our country.

BOLDUAN: Manu and John were just talking about some of the efforts that are the discussions, I'll call them, that are happening in the Senate. The Senate could jam the House. We've seen it multiple times before.

Before we get there, I want to get a quick and candid take from you on a couple of other things that are swirling around in terms of the players and the plays around trying to avoid a shutdown. Do you -- the demand of moving spending bills forward one by one, even at this point, do you think it's productive? Do you think it's fruitless? Do you think it's a political show? Which is it?

GOTTHEIMER: I mean, I think these proposals are -- I think they're show. I think they will just die in the House. The Senate is obviously going to reject them. But if that's what they need to do is throat- clearing to actually, ultimately pass a continuing resolution and keep the lights on in the government and protect our veterans and our seniors and our families, right, and law enforcement and the military and everyone else who will be affected by a government shutdown.

If that's what they need to do, then go ahead and do it. But just make sure before the government shuts down that we pass a continuing resolution, whether it's the Senate's, whether it's the bipartisan proposal, the Problem Solvers Caucus has put forward, whatever it is, the key is avoiding a government shutdown and the impact that would have, huge impact, as we've seen it would have on our economy, military and families.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely, okay. So, the Republican frontrunner telling Republicans in a long social media post, but essentially getting to this, quote, unless you get everything, shut it down. Hearing that from Donald Trump, productive, fruitless, you say it's crazy.

GOTTHEIMER: I mean, hugely unproductive, of course, calling for us to shut the government down. You know, it costs the government $66 million a day. It stops our military defense projects, stops military pay. The last shutdown under Donald Trump's watch, on Donald Trump's watch for 30 days, cost our economy $11 billion by their own nature. It helps -- it makes everyone like China, the government of China, very happy to see that we're a mess. Moody's said that they will down, you know, potentially downgrade us.

So, it has a huge impact on the economy, and potentially if Donald Trump gets his way. So, that is not the answer, shutting the government down. What we need to do is sit at the table, as we have, and actually solve the problem for the country. This is ridiculous, just like the debt ceiling fight was ridiculous, and focus on real issues.

BOLDUAN: Look, you -- and you were central in those conversations to avoid a debt default as well. What happens -- if this comes from the Senate, it could largely mirror what you all are proposing from in the Problem Solvers Caucus, maybe with the exception of one major thing, which could come because there's a big debate over whether or not to include Ukraine aid because of what that would mean in something coming over from the Senate.

You support aid to Ukraine, but if it's the only way to keep the lights on and to move Ukraine aid separately, what do you think about that? How do you -- what do you say?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, obviously, I'd prefer it have disaster relief and Ukraine resources, which is what we proposed, along with the Debt and Deficit Commission. But the bottom line is, if we can keep the lights on, there will be still enough funding for the next period of time, of 45 days, to continue supporting Ukraine, our efforts there to stop Putin and his dictatorial march, and, of course, to help on the disaster front. But we're going to have to address it in 45 days. But it will avoid a shutdown, which we know will cost our country a fortune, right?

So, I think if that's what we get, then we should put it up. If that's not the answer, we could put the problem solvers over solution up. But the ultimate goal has to be to stop a government shutdown and stop the folks who, as Kevin McCarthy said, want to burn the place down. And that is not who we should be listening to, the ultra right wing, who just wants to literally stop everything and stop progress. Their hope is that we shut the government down, which, to me, for the life of me, can't understand, but we just need reason and common sense, and I hope that prevails.

BOLDUAN: You have called on Senator Bob Menendez, a Senator from your state, to step aside while everyone is innocent until proven guilty given the gravity of the charges that he is facing. Menendez spoke out just yesterday saying and explaining that he withdraws hundreds of thousands of dollars from his personal savings account to be kept for emergencies and because of his family history facing confiscation in Cuba.

I mean, what's alleged in the indictment is something like half a million dollars in cash, $500,000. Is that plausible to you? Does any of this make any more sense to you after hearing from Menendez himself yesterday?

GOTTHEIMER: I mean, I've said my piece on this, you know, and spoken aside, I think the senator should step aside given the gravity of the allegations and also the distraction. You know, what we've just been talking about this, which I hope we can focus on, is when five days, the government will shut down. We can't afford any distractions. We've got to end it at 45 days from now, and we've got to focus on that.

You know, we -- that is the major priority, what I'm focused on for the families I represent and for our country, and we'll continue focusing on that. And, you know, Kate, given the fact that we've got five days, we should all be around the table, figuring out how to get this done. And, to me, there's nothing more urgent right now.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Congressman Gottheimer, thank you for coming in.

GOTTHEIMER: Thanks for having me.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

John?

BERMAN: Hunter Biden sues Rudy Giuliani for what he calls a total annihilation of his digital privacy, accusations that Giuliani and a lawyer manipulated and tampered with stolen data.

The lineup for the next Republican debate revealed as the campaign for Florida Governor Ron DeSantis hints he might try something different on stage this time.

And Mark Meadows, the former White House chief of staff, why did his clothes to smell like smoke just before leaving the White House. New claims in the brand new book by former White House Aide Cassidy Hutchinson.

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BERMAN: Just in this morning, Hunter Biden announced he is filing a lawsuit against Rudy Giuliani and Giuliani's former lawyer. This lawsuit claims that Giuliani caused a, quote, total annihilation of Hunter Biden's digital privacy, accusing the pair of hacking into tampering with and generally obsessing over data taken from his devices. This is Biden's latest attempt at going on the offense as he faces criminal charges.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is with us now. Katelyn, lay out what this lawsuit is about.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, John, this is Hunter Biden on the offensive trying to protect what he says is his private information and specifically information that he says, at least in some part, was taken from his laptop and put on an external drive handed at some point to Rudy Giuliani and a lawyer he long worked with named Robert Costello.

His reasoning for accusing these two men of hacking into his data, his personal information that was on this laptop, he's saying that Robert Costello in a New York magazine article, typed in, logged in to Hunter Biden's data using a password of his and he also gives some examples of Rudy Giuliani on his podcast talking about having access to Hunter Biden's laptop, even holding it up on the podcast and saying this is Hunter Biden's. And so that is where the suit spaces comes in.

And what Hunter Biden and his lawyers are specifically saying, what they're asking for the judge to do here in the central district of California, a federal court, is that they're saying defendants' statements suggest that their unlawful hacking activities are ongoing today, and that unless stopped, will continue into the future, thereby necessitating this action.

But, of course, this lawsuit comes against quite a backdrop of moving parts for Hunter Biden.

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This is the fourth lawsuit that I've counted where he sued over some sort of invasion of his personal information. And then also on top of that, he is a criminal defendant right now in Delaware in federal court. There's an ongoing investigation. There're Capitol Hill investigations. And one of the people he's suing here, Rudy Giuliani, is facing his own mountain of legal issues, including several other lawsuits. John?

BERMAN: Yes, to say the least. All right, Katelyn Polantz, thank you for explaining all that. Sara?

SIDNER: All right. The stage is set for the second Republican debate, but the clear frontrunner in the primary race, former President Trump, skipping it again.

The RNC has released the list of candidates for Wednesday's debate in California. There they are. You are looking at them, Doug Burgum, Chris Christie, Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, Mike Pence, Vivek Ramaswamy, and Tim Scott. Asa Hutchinson, who appeared in the first GOP debate, did not manage to make the cut this time.

And Trump already announced he's not going to be there. Instead he is giving, as you know, a speech in Detroit.

Joining us now are Astead Herndon, CNN political analyst and national political reporter for The New York Times, and CNN National Politics Correspondent Eva McKend.

All right, Trump suggests his attacks on the frontrunners. The question, I guess, is what does attacks look like and are going to look like from the candidates? Here's a little bit of what they have said so far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): The former president is wrong on the issue. He was a pro-life president. We need a pro-life president in the future.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): I think all pro-lifers should know that he's preparing to sell you out.

CHRIS CHRISTIE, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Stop hiding behind your social media site, your failed social media site, Donald, and start taking me on directly. Show up. Stop being a coward.

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SIDNER: Nikki Haley has said he was thin-skinned and easily distracted, really, except for Chris Christie. The attacks are tepid at best. Are these candidates making the same mistake as the candidates in 2016, who didn't fight back, though, Trump mercilessly attacked them using nicknames for all of them? I'll start with you, Eva.

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Well, abortion -- yes, Sara. Abortion is an area where many of these candidates are eager to show contrast. So, I suspect we're going to hear a lot of it at the debate. Senator Scott, former Vice President Mike Pence, they have been clear about their desire for a national abortion ban. That is different from some of the others that will be up on that stage and from the former president.

But yes, the attacks, for the most part, are largely substantive because so many primary voters in these early states, where we have been, have so much affection for the former president. You see these candidates really reluctant to really take him on directly unless they feel as though it's really going to be something of value.

SIDNER: It really shows that the party is still Trump's.

Astead, I want to talk to you about some of the really glaring and stunning words, frankly, from Donald Trump after reports that Mark Milley made, that he contacted the Chinese officials to warn them that, look, hey, Donald Trump's not planning to attack China in those final weeks of Donald Trump's presidency. Trump said on social media that the act was so egregious that, in times gone by, the punishment would have been death for Milley.

He also went after Comcast, which owns NBC and MSNBC, and said they should be investigated for treason for being unfair to him.

I mean, is anyone going to take him on for these outrageous and, frankly, un-American threats?

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, the short answer is in the Republican Party, no. And in the Republican debate, we should not expect that. This has been a kind of consistent escalation of language that we have seen from Donald Trump in this kind of second term round. We often get the question kind of, what's different? The same figure we saw in 2016 is the same president that we saw throughout the next four years.

And I think that answers no. With these statements, with things like he said on Milley, with things he said about kind of the removal of the deep state, if there's -- the things that he's kind of promised policy -wise about what a Trump second term would look like, shows that this is someone who is escalating that language, who is becoming more hardened, who is becoming more isolated in his way of governing. And I think that's reflected in the words that you hear about Mark Milley here.

But the thing to Eva's point, if you go ask Republican voters about that statement, I imagine a lot of them are going to say that they like the strength that he projects, that they like the kind of way that Donald Trump kind of makes -- that they see this as an example of his sort of patriotism. The problem is we are used to voters kind of giving elected officials electoral penalties for doing things that are outside the kind of bounds. But then this is not outside the bounds of the Republican Party. If anything, it is the reason why they're coming to Trump in the first place.

And so that's created this situation where I think for a lot of people, they're wondering, have these voters heard this.

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How can they vote for someone who's consistently saying this? And that's just the misunderstanding that Republicans have been for a long time because not only have they heard it, they like it.