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Can Kevin McCarthy Avert Shutdown?; President Biden to Deliver Speech on Defending Democracy; Republican Presidential Debate Fallout; Republicans Hold Impeachment Inquiry. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired September 28, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:01:08]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: All right, happening now, live pictures of the first official hearing in the impeachment inquiry into President Biden. This whole thing opened with a debate over whether the hearing was even legal at all.

And it is taking place for hours, as Congress only has hours to avoid a government shutdown.

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: Speaking of which, it could be the first shutdown since 2019.

The House and Senate are still at odds, and the situation especially tense among House Republicans. The testy exchange behind closed doors between Speaker Mike (sic) McCarthy and one of his hard right members.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: The Republican candidates debated. Did anyone win? And, even short of that, did anyone make any dents in Donald Trump's armor as the front-runner, just as we learn how Donald Trump is feeling about attending the next Republican debate?

I'm Kate Bolduan with Sara Sidner and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

Behind me, you can see the first hearing of the official impeachment inquiry into President Biden. House members will spend hours questioning experts. You're looking at professors here, not fact witnesses.

House Republicans are trying to argue that President Biden used his office to profit along with his son Hunter Biden. As of now, they have not presented any evidence of that. And, as Kate and Sara have both noted, this hearing you're seeing here is going to go on for hours, and the House of Representatives only has hours to prevent a government shutdown.

Let's bring in Sara Murray, who has been watching these hearings.

What's come out of it so far, Sara?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, look, I think we have seen Republicans try to sort of set the stakes for this, that they believe that Joe Biden has committed some sort of misconduct related to his family's business dealings, even though they haven't been able to prove it yet.

So I want to give you a taste of James Comer, the House Oversight chairman, sort of setting the stage for this impeachment inquiry as they kick off this first hearing. Take a listen to what Congress said this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): At least 10 times, Joe Biden lied to the American people that he never spoke to his family about their business dealings. He lied by telling the American people that there was an absolute wall between his official government duties and his personal life.

Let's be clear. There wasn't a wall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Now, of course, Comey has not been able to prove that the president was involved in his son's business dealings. He hasn't been able to prove that Joe Biden has profited at all off of his family business dealings, but that's part of what they're looking into in this impeachment inquiry.

But, as you pointed out, all of this is coming at the same time as we are barreling toward a government shutdown. And that is what Congressman Jamie Raskin, the top Democrat on this committee, tried to drive home at the beginning of the hearing. Take a listen to what Raskin said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): We're 62 hours away from shutting down the government of the United States of America, and Republicans are launching an impeachment drive based on a long-debunked and discredited lie.

No foreign enemy has ever been able to shut down the government United States, but now MAGA Republicans are about to do just that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Now, I think what's been interesting so far, in hearing from these expert witnesses -- again, these are not fact witnesses. These aren't people who were doing business with Hunter Biden.

There's a law professor. There are some tax experts, and a couple of them have already said, look, there is not enough evidence here to actually impeach. What you guys have right now are allegations. What you guys have right now are questions. And we are here to answer those.

But a couple of those witnesses have been very stark in saying, right now, you have allegations and questions. You don't have evidence.

[11:05:00] BERMAN: All right, Sara Murray, we will let you keep on watching. This will go on for some time. Keep us posted -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: This just in, but likely not breaking news for many folks.

Donald Trump says that he will not be attending the third Republican primary debate, Donald Trump telling The Daily Caller that. This is just after he very successfully did not attend the second one.

So, what did happen last night? Well, they came, they saw, but it's a big question if anyone really did conquer, seven Republican presidential candidates facing off for this second Republican primary debate. The fight for speaking time was fierce, evidenced by the number of times that they were all talking all over each other all at once.

This morning, at least one of the candidates on the stage says, despite Donald Trump's commanding lead, it's way too early to give up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You want Trump/Biden? Then we should all drop out now. But then we see that 70 percent of the American people don't want Trump/Biden.

So why don't we take the time to run a real campaign?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: CNN's Kyung Lah joins us from Simi Valley, California, the sights of the Republican presidential debate last night.

Kyung, standout moments, did anyone have one?

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we have at least one metric, Kate. And it's a tenuous one. But it is one metric that we can tell you about.

It is an e-mail blast that Donald Trump sent out in the final minutes of the debate. It is from his campaign, and it was an e-mail blast about Nikki Haley, basically assaulting her and tackling her on a number of fronts.

So, if Donald Trump sends out an e-mail blast about you, that means that at least the campaign thinks of you in some head-turning fashion. So, by that one metric, she did land some type of blow.

But it wasn't just about her going after Donald Trump. She was also taking a more aggressive posture with many of the candidates on stage. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ron DeSantis is against fracking. He's against drilling. He's been against -- you did it.

Twelve years, where have you been? Where have you been, Tim? Twelve years, we've waited and nothing has happened.

(CROSSTALK)

HALEY: A win for Russia is a win for China.

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That is not true. We're driving Russia...

HALEY: A win for Russia is a win for China.

RAMASWAMY: Excuse me. Excuse me. If you have a chance -- you will have...

HALEY: But I forgot. You like China. That's why you're...

Honestly, every time I hear you, I feel a little bit dumber for what you say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: Now, her campaign is certainly trying to capitalize off that moment. She is heading back to Iowa this weekend, trying to take a victory lap by holding a town hall.

It is, though, too early, Kate. And we have to stress it's too early to know if this is actually going to pay off for the former ambassador. As far as what's going to be happening with the rest of the candidates, Donald Trump, Ramaswamy, DeSantis, as well as Tim Scott, they all remain here in California, where the state party is going to be kicking off their convention tomorrow, Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, good to see you, Kyung. Thank you -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right, Trump's opponents did attack Donald Trump a bit last night, but he wasn't listening because he was in Michigan trying to gain support in the battleground state at a non-union autoworkers shop.

While there, he managed to take a couple of digs at his opponents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now they're all job candidates. They want to be in the -- they want to -- they will do anything, secretary of something. They even say V.P.? I don't know.. Does anybody see any V.P. in the group? I don't think so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Basically, he's saying they're playing for second.

CNN's Alayna Treene has more on this.

Alayna, he was obviously trying to, where he was, appeal to blue- collar voters, who -- some of whom really support him there in Michigan, though he was speaking at a non-union auto parts company. How did it land?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Right.

Well, the group in the room, it was an invite-only event. It was a very curated group, many supporters in there, just so you get a sense of who was there last night.

But look, Sara, I mean, Donald Trump clearly was -- sees Michigan as a very critical voter bloc and the people who were in the room, these union members, autoworkers, as crucial to his success in 2024. Donald Trump won Michigan in 2016, thanks to the support of many people who were there last night, but he lost the state to Joe Biden in 2020.

And that's why you're seeing him and you saw him last night go out to Michigan to talk to these voters. And he tried to tell them that he's on their side, that he's on the side of autoworkers that he opposes a swift transition to electric vehicles, something that many of these workers worry could cost them jobs.

And he also tried to say that he was the savior or he would be the savior for the trajectory of the auto industry. But he also tried to recast his record in office, something that many union leaders say was not -- anti-union, pro-business, things that they didn't agree with.

And Donald Trump also made a pitch to a specific union leader, Shawn Fain, the head of the United Auto Workers. Let's listen.

[11:10:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If you could speak to Shawn -- he's listening right now I'm sure -- Shawn, endorse Trump, and you can take a nice two-month vacation, come back. You guys are going to be better than you ever were, better than you ever were.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: Because, the other way, you won't have a vacation, Shawn. And in a short period of time, you're not going to have a union, you're not going to have jobs, you're not going to have anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: So, Sara, a couple quick things here.

The UAW has not yet endorsed in 2024. But they did endorse Biden in 2020. And you did see Shawn Fain give Biden a warm welcome when he was in Michigan on Tuesday. They walked the picket line together. And he has had nothing but negative things to say about Donald Trump.

But when I talk to Trump advisers, they tell me that they do think there's a split between union leaders and rank-and-file members, and that's really what Donald Trump was trying to get across to people in the room last night. SIDNER: Yes, I did notice something curious there. He's at a non-

union shop, but there are people holding signs that say they are supporting the union.

TREENE: Right.

SIDNER: Very interesting.

All right, Alayna Treene, thank you so much -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: With us now for all of this is CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp and the former presidential campaign manager for Senator Marco Rubio's campaign bid, Terry Sullivan. He's also the founder of -- founding partner of Firehouse Strategies.

OK, guys, we were here yesterday. And, Terry, you said mission number one for these candidates on the stage was to not only cut in, to go after Donald Trump, but to draw blood, to really actually make some headway. Did you see any of that?

TERRY SULLIVAN, GOP POLITICAL CONSULTANT: No, like, just a total goat rodeo. And I'm not exactly...

BOLDUAN: I have never attended a goat rodeo.

SULLIVAN: It's great, great fun, very fun to watch, but there's not a lot of organization going out. There's not much purpose. There's no winner or loser.

And that's what we saw last night, is that they were just attacking each other. And it was a little perplexing. Some of them had some strong nights. I think that Tim Scott did a big improvement off last time. I think Ron DeSantis, by the end of it, had really improved, but nobody drew any blood on Trump.

BOLDUAN: I was looking. I was kind of marking the time, S.E. It was 10 minutes in before Chris Christie -- I mean, 10 minutes in two hours is a short amount of time, I guess, but still 10 minutes when Chris Christie and Ron DeSantis finally really kind of came out and went after Trump in the way that they did.

Christie had a brief mention of Trump's indictments. There was no mention of the big decision the judge had about Trump's businesses.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Why? Why do you think -- why?

CUPP: Yes. No, it's a mystery, because, as we have all noted before, the way to win is to knock him down, and you have got to take him on frontally. And there's so much material, so much material just this week.

You mentioned the fraud ruling. None of them really went there. They all kind of bemoaned the fact that he wasn't present, which is such a cheap -- I mean, that doesn't really... BOLDUAN: It's like trying, not trying, like, in the wrong way, like...

(CROSSTALK)

SULLIVAN: Yes.

CUPP: Well, it's flirting with it, and not in a very meaningful way.

But the real answer as to why is because they really think they can split the baby, they can get his voters, and the independents and moderates and disaffected Republicans and disaffected Democrats that they should be going for. Those are who you will need to win.

You're not getting the cult of Trump. You're not getting them. I like Chris Christie's long play, where he says, listen, as it gets worse for Trump, I will be able to peel some of them away.

That might be true. You are not getting the hardened Trump voter, so stop sucking up to them.

BOLDUAN: You guys agreed and disagreed on a few points. Let's talk about -- let's talk about agreement, friends.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: You both seemed to agree, when I asked you ahead of time, that there was some improvement. You mentioned Tim Scott. We both agreed that Ron DeSantis had some improvement.

I want to play them on with that you -- that, Terry, you think showed an important -- I will say an important personality trait or moment for DeSantis not having anything to do with policy, but this.

Watch this, everybody.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Which one of you on stage tonight should be voted off the island? I am absolutely serious.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will decline to do that, with all due respect.

RAMASWAMY: Wow.

DESANTIS: I mean, we're here. Like, we're happy to debate.

RAMASWAMY: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

DESANTIS: I think that that's disrespectful to my fellow competitors, yes.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) (END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: What did you see in that moment, Tim?

SULLIVAN: He took a leadership role. He was an adult. They were trying to make a reality TV show out of it at that moment, and I thought it fell short for the moderators.

But he looked really strong and had a leadership role. Unfortunately, it was at minute, like, one hour and 59 of a two-hour debate. And most of America was in bed. But, I mean, it really was a strong showing for him, I think.

BOLDUAN: You guys differ on Nikki Haley.

CUPP: OK.

BOLDUAN: And you think -- she came out aggressively. Why do you think that it gives her a boost today?

CUPP: Well, listen, I would have loved her to go after Trump more frontally. She didn't.

But what she did was go after her opponents. She was real prepared to do some exposes on Ron DeSantis' fracking position, Tim Scott's failures in the Senate, Vivek Ramaswamy's embrace of TikTok. She really came prepared to do that.

[11:15:13]

And, listen, the point of all of this is to create a contrast. That is the point. And in a sea of people sounding the same -- they even dressed the same, inexplicably -- she did the job of creating a contrast. Now, does that make her the winner? I don't know.

But I think she went there with a purpose. And I think she accomplished that.

BOLDUAN: Why didn't it work, you think?

SULLIVAN: You know, she may created a contrast for her and everybody not named Donald Trump.

CUPP: Right.

SULLIVAN: I think that's the fundamental problem. He's still almost at 60 percent of the vote. And she went after everybody on that stage.

I mean, how do you go after Tim Scott, the nicest guy in American politics?

CUPP: Well, she did it.

SULLIVAN: She did it.

CUPP: Don't talk to her about the curtains, Terry. BOLDUAN: Bring it. Bring it.

CUPP: You bring it, Tim.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: I really did like -- I did like a few of her lines.

CUPP: Me too.

BOLDUAN: They did feel, to the point -- and we talked about it off camera -- felt authentic.

CUPP: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Prepared, but there was authenticity to it.

SULLIVAN: The authentic little anger. Like, it was like...

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: That's OK.

SULLIVAN: When voting off the island, I thought she was writing everybody's name on that card. Like, she was ready to -- like, Vivek first, clearly.

(LAUGHTER)

CUPP: I don't think she seemed angry.

SULLIVAN: OK.

CUPP: I think she seemed passionate. And I think she seemed like, I know the job is to win. I'm here to win. And you all need to start whittling the field down, and I'm going to stay.

BOLDUAN: It sounds like no one is going to get out of the race today after that -- their performances last night. So the field doesn't change.

We did learn that Donald Trump is not showing up for the third one. Should that surprise anyone after what we saw last night?

SULLIVAN: No. It might be the most, like, rational decision Donald Trump has ever made about campaigning in his life.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

SULLIVAN: Why would you want to be on that?

CUPP: Well, he's also signaling -- I think we also saw him tell the RNC that they shouldn't hold any more debates, which I think signals that he doesn't like what happens at these debates. He doesn't like not being there, but being mentioned. He's not reaping the benefits of that. BOLDUAN: Yes.

CUPP: He's not in control. He's not getting to dominate people. So I think he's actually pretty scared of the debates.

BOLDUAN: The counterprogramming, though, it was different than last counterprogramming, going to -- trying to appeal to union workers, trying to draw a wedge between union workers and union leadership. He didn't talk about the criminal cases against him. And he didn't really talk about how -- the last election either.

What do you -- I thought that was very interesting.

SULLIVAN: Look, I think he is running a far more discipline campaign than he ever has before. And he drove Joe Biden to Michigan. Like, him announcing that he was going, he's actually looking presidential in this.

He's by not -- by saying, look, the primary is over, I'm done, and taking the stage and saying I'm going to Michigan, the president's not, at the end of the day, you can think what you want, but this campaign is much smarter, much more disciplined. He's not -- I mean, imagine me telling you three months ago that he wouldn't live-tweet respond during the debates.

None of us would have believed that. He's running a disciplined campaign.

CUPP: Well, I don't know. I would check some of his TRUTH Social posts. They are unhinged, and he's calling for actual violence against some of his opponents.

I don't think that's very presidential.

BOLDUAN: And also even Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman.

CUPP: Yes. Yes.

SULLIVAN: I just mean in comparison.

CUPP: OK. It's a low bar, but sure.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLDUAN: All relative. Within this context...

(CROSSTALK)

SULLIVAN: In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

CUPP: Yes, that's right.

BOLDUAN: It's good to see you guys. Thanks for coming in.

SULLIVAN: Great seeing you.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: All right, it is important day for the likely Democratic nominee as well. Of course, I'm talking about President Joe Biden.

He's trying to draw contrast between himself and Donald Trump. He is delivering a speech on the defense of democracy, and where he is doing it is also meant to send a message.

Let's get right to CNN's Jeremy Diamond.

Jeremy, what are the details here?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, John, preserving democracy and fighting the attacks against it was central, a central message to President Biden's 2020 campaign.

And he very much intends to make it a central message for his 2024 reelection bid and for a potential matchup, rematch with Donald Trump. And that is what we are going to hear from President Biden today. Even though this is an official White House event, this is very much going to be a political speech, in the way that President Biden frames this issue and in the way that he's also going to use these very same kinds of remarks on the stump in 2024.

A senior White House official telling us this morning that protecting democracy continues to be the central cause of Joe Biden's presidency. And that is what we are going to hear from the president today as he continues to sharpen attacks that we have heard him really say more frequently in the last several weeks at fund-raisers, his attacks on Donald Trump, framing the MAGA movement, Donald Trump's MAGA movement as a central threat to democracy.

Here's a little bit of what we're expecting to hear from the president -- quote -- "There is something dangerous happening in America. There is an extremist movement that does not share the basic beliefs of our democracy, the MAGA movement."

And the president, as he makes these remarks, the backdrop is going to be important here. Not only is he speaking in Arizona, a state that was central to Donald Trump's attempts to overturn the election in 2020, but it is also the home state of the late Senator John McCain.

[11:20:07]

And that point is twofold. Number one, this is an opportunity for President Biden to point out that this is not a partisan issue, but an American issue, because John McCain, defending democracy was, of course, central to his political image as well.

And it's also going to be an opportunity for President Biden to honor John McCain, a man who sparred with Donald Trump over his attempts to trample on Democratic and constitutional norms during Trump's presidency. And he's also going to be directing funding, federal funding, towards a John McCain Library, which is going to be established in Arizona.

That's going to be a very significant moment for a president who considered himself brothers with the late senator -- John.

BERMAN: Yes, friends with John McCain since the 1970s.

All right, Jeremy Diamond at the White House, thank you very much for being with us -- Sara.

SIDNER: Still ahead: two days to avoid a shutdown, and no clear path forward. We will take a look at where negotiations stand and the potential impact of no deal.

Plus: back on U.S. soil. CNN appears to capture the moment Army Private Travis King arrived back to the United States weeks after he crossed into North Korea. So what happens now that he's home? We will have that story ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:25:55]

SIDNER: New details for you now on how the House is trying to move forward to try to avert a shutdown.

Three sources are telling CNN that GOP leaders still intend to call a vote tomorrow on a short-term spending bill, despite the fact they haven't locked down enough votes to pass it.

Let's get straight to CNN's Lauren Fox.

Lauren, we hear there were some serious tensions again between Matt Gaetz and Speaker McCarthy at a closed-door meeting. How feasible is it really to think that, look, they're putting this out there, it's going to be voted on, but that it will actually pass?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, there's a series of votes that we're going to be watching in the House of Representatives.

The first of them is going to be a series of four votes on individual spending bills that will get kicked off tonight around 10:00 p.m. None of the bills that are going to go to the floor tonight would actually pass the United States Senate, meaning they would not avert a government shutdown.

Then, tomorrow, leadership is hoping to bring a short-term spending bill to the floor of the House. And in a closed-door conference meeting this morning, leaders tried to compel their members to unite behind something, anything, arguing that the short-term solution was their best option to averting a shutdown and helping remain in the majority after the 2024 election.

Of course, those tensions that you discussed at the top here, those were looming large, as you had Matt Gaetz confronting the House speaker, the speaker firing back, arguing, how is Matt Gaetz spending his time, given the fact that the speaker is focused on keeping the majority? It is just one more example of how the speaker is dealing with a small number of hard-liners, Sara, that are becoming more and more of a problem, because he has a very narrow majority. It only takes a handful of members to disrupt any plan the speaker has.

And the plan that the speaker is eying tomorrow is to try and pass a short-term spending bill? Right now, though, like you said, it looks like he doesn't have the votes.

SIDNER: There is something else happening on the Hill with Senator Bob Menendez. He's back and set to meet with some Senate Democrats today. What are you hearing may happen there?

FOX: Yes, I mean, obviously, this is a meeting that Menendez will walk into as 30 of his Democratic colleagues have called on him to resign.

To this point, Menendez has been defiant. But here's a preview of some of the tension that could erupt in that lunch meeting among Democrats. You had Senator John Fetterman tweeting earlier -- quote -- "Unless Senator Menendez is coming today to resign. I'm not interested in hearing his explanation for gold bars stashed in a mattress."

So you can expect that, today, there are going to be a lot of questions from Democratic colleagues. There are also some practical questions that senators are going to have to answer, whether or not they think that Senator Menendez should continue serving on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He's no longer acting as the chairman of that committee.

Senator Ben Cardin will do that. But Senator Cardin was pressed earlier by reporters whether or not he thought that Senator Menendez should continue serving on the committee, given the fact that this is a committee that handles potentially classified information, that handles sensitive information and deals with foreign dignitaries, given the seriousness of these charges.

Senator Cardin did not answer whether or not he thought Senator Menendez should continue serving on that body -- Sara.

SIDNER: We will see what happens in that part of -- in that case is well. Thank you so much, Lauren Fox, for your reporting -- John.

BERMAN: All right, let's go back to the shutdown, which is looming. I mean, we're talking two days away at this point.

With us now, CNN business and economy reporter Matt Egan.

Matt, the economy itself, it can't speak, but if it could verbalize, right, what would it say about this shutdown?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, John, let's set the scene here, because we have already got a lot of dark clouds kind of hovering over the economy, right?

We have this unprecedented auto strike, oil prices racing towards $100 a barrel. Student loan payments are coming back. And the stock market is suddenly getting pretty wobbly. So, I have a crazy idea. Maybe now is not the best time to shut down the federal government.

BERMAN: So, they would say -- it would say, not now. If the economy could speak, the words it would use would be, not now.

EGAN: Exactly, not now, not ever, but definitely not now.

I mean, listen, a shutdown is probably not going to wreck the economy, especially if it's short. But it's definitely not going to help. And if it lasts long enough, it could do some real damage.

[11:30:00]