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Now, Donald Trump and Hunter Biden at Court; Vote to Oust Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) Scheduled for Today; Hunter Biden Pleads Not Guilty to Federal Gun Charges. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 03, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: We are following several breaking news events this hour, one that has huge repercussions for the functioning of Congress, and the other's legal battles, one for a former U.S. president and a sitting president's son. Those separate legal cases playing out inside two different courthouses for two very different reasons.

Moments ago we saw Hunter Biden head into court. We are still waiting for Donald Trump to head into court. The court time starts at 10:00 A.M., so we're there.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump is facing an existential threat to his business empire with this court appearance. He's back in court in Manhattan where he's already lost part of his case. The judge has already found that he is liable for fraud.

Hunter Biden is in a Delaware courtroom. He is to be arraigned on federal gun charges.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And major breaking news, we are just learning there will be a vote today. Kevin McCarthy, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy announced there will be a vote today that will decide his fate. Will he keep his job.

Democrats and Republicans are meeting behind closed doors at this minute and we are minutes away from learning whether he has the votes to survive.

We are going to keep our eye on that and bring you word whenever we hear what took place inside those meetings.

In the meantime, let's go to Delaware first. CNN's Evan Perez outside the courthouse in Wilmington, Hunter Biden has arrived. What do we expect to see?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, Hunter Biden is now sitting inside that courtroom. He's there with his attorney, Abbe Lowell. And this is supposed to be a very brief hearing. This is where he is going to enter his not guilty plea. That's what we expect him to do. He's going to go down and get processed by the U.S. Marshals and then we expect that he'll leave.

Now, of course, we don't know how this will go down because the last time he was here a couple of months ago, it was also supposed to be a very brief hearing. It was his plea agreement and everything had been set up ahead of time and then, of course, it all fell apart spectacularly after the judge began asking questions about exactly what the terms of that deal were.

Now, part of that deal was for a diversion agreement, whereby Hunter Biden would basically stay away from drugs, make sure he didn't buy any guns for two years, and then this gun charge would have gone away. That is no longer the case. He's facing three counts for purchasing a handgun back in 2018.

Now, he owned this gun for only 11 days, but under federal law, it was a violation of federal law for him to possess that firearm because Hunter Biden has said that he was under the influence of drugs during that period. He was using drugs during that period, and so therefore it was technically a felony for him to buy that firearm.

Now, we expect that Hunter Biden's attorneys are going to make the case that that diversion agreement should continue to stand. They're going to make the argument to the judge that this charge should not go forward. But, obviously, this is only the beginning for Hunter Biden because we expect that the special counsel, David Weiss, is also looking to bring charges against Hunter Biden for his tax, for failing to pay his taxes on time for a number of years. That could happen in the next couple of weeks, probably in Los Angeles or Washington, D.C. John?

BERMAN: All right, Evan Perez, outside the courthouse in Wilmington, Delaware. Evan, keep us up to speed on what is going on behind you. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: We're also standing by for the civil trial of Donald Trump to start back up. Day one was wild. What is day two then going to bring?

CNN's Brynn Gingras is outside the courthouse for us with all the details. Brynn, what's happening there?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Reporters right now tell us that the former president is speaking to cameras outside of that courtroom. So, it's unclear exactly what he's saying or the tone of his comments, but he is about to go into the courtroom for this second day to start.

I will tell you, Letitia James, the New York attorney general, she came into the courthouse through these steps right behind me and didn't make any comments to anyone.

[10:05:06]

However, there was someone who screamed out, go get him, and thank you. And she turned around and gave a big thumbs up and a smile. Our reporters inside the courtroom say that the mood in there right now is actually quite friendly. There's attorneys talking with each other. There's attorneys hugging the other side of the attorney general's office with the defense. So, it's definitely a different mood right now than what we are seeing in that tense environment yesterday for day one.

Now, when court gets started today, we expect Trump's former accountant, Donald Bender, to get back on the stand and the state's attorneys to continue going through sort of the nitty-gritty of financial statements, how evaluations were determined in Trump properties. And, of course, the defense is continuing to fight its argument to prove that no fraud was here. There was no intent and that there are no victims in this case.

As far as the former president is concerned, it's unclear how long he plans on staying today. Of course, he was here for the entire day yesterday. It's unclear if he will do the same for today.

But what will be interesting, guys, is going forward. How many days does he show up to court? We know he of course is on the witness list. We know his sons are expected to testify as well. We know that people he may be interested in listening to are expected to testify, like his former attorney, Michael Cohen, who, of course, is the whole reason this case even got started in the first place. So, that's something that we'll be keeping an eye out for.

Yesterday, he was very engaged with his attorneys, listening to testimony, because, guys, have you guys have pointed out, there's a lot at stake here. This is his brand. He is intent, as he said, on defending that brand. And we know that the attorney general's office has said and asked the judge at the end of all this, they hope the Trumps never do business in New York ever again. Guys?

BERMAN: All right. Brynn Gingras outside the courthouse.

I think we're going to Kristen Holmes now. As we've been saying, this is a legal proceeding. Donald Trump doesn't need to be there. He has chosen to be there. Why? Because while it's a legal proceeding, this honestly is day two of a major campaign of event for Donald Trump, and he and his campaign very much treating it like that, Kristen.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, John. And they've really taken advantage of the media coverage. One thing that I had talked to advisers about was how they could actually work with the legal coverage and turn it into campaign coverage.

If you'll remember his arrest in Georgia came the day after that Republican debate, the first Republican debate and immediately coverage started shifting to Trump's arrest in Georgia. And that was something that they noticed, took notice of and they realized that the legal stuff might play into the campaign stuff when it comes to actually publicizing these events. So, that is definitely a part of it.

Now, I am told that Trump had fun yesterday, a source telling me that he had a good time in court, that he was happy with the end of the day when the judge said that some of the testimony from 2011 was a waste of his time. His legal advisers were also very happy with that. But also he is invested in this case.

We can't take that away from the fact that, yes, he is using this for publicity. He did speak to the cameras multiple times. But he is also very invested in the fact that this is attacking his brand. Trump built an entire life, an entire brand, even before politics, on being a rich, successful businessman in New York. And part of his fame came from The Apprentice, which, again, was based on being a rich, successful businessman.

So, to take this away in this case essentially is attacking the very person that Trump has built. It also attacks his political brand because this is how he has sold himself to voters across the country, both in 2016 and again this time, which essentially saying that I am so successful and I am so rich and I can do the same for you.

And I hear that from voters saying that they believe that he can make the best deals because Donald Trump is the author of The Art of the Deal. This goes to that. That hits that very core of who Donald Trump is. So, he is in fact invested in this case and how it's going to play out.

SIDNER: Thank you so much, Kristen Holmes, and also to Brynn who is outside the court. We will be checking back in with them.

And we were just moments ago hearing Donald Trump yet again stand before cameras, just like he did yesterday and speak to the cameras, and make his speech, which one could call a campaign stop kind of speech.

With us now, former Federal Prosecutor Paul Rosenzweig and CNN Political Director David Chalian.

I want to get to you, David, because I just want to reset here. Can we just take a moment and think about how unbelievable it is? This is a person who has been found liable already in this case in one-- we're going to take a pause. I will get to you. I promise.

Kevin McCarthy, the speaker, speaking right now as he faces a potential vote to oust him.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): My only conversation with Jeffries, I got a lot of respect for him. You know, you guys do whatever you need to do. I get politics. I understand where people are. I truly believe, though, the institution of the House at the end of the day.

If you throw a speaker out that has 99 percent of their conference that kept government open and paid the troops, I think we're in a really bad place for how we're going to run Congress.

[10:10:06]

REPORTER: Sir, are you expecting Democrats to back you up then?

MCCARTHY: No. Personally, I am not.

REPORTER: Do you need their help to remain in leadership?

MCCARTHY: No. If five Republicans go with Democrats, then I'm out. So it's whether--

REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)?

MCCARTHY: Probably so.

REPORTER: This is a bit of a complex piece of algebra because you don't know the attendance, you don't know with present votes. I mean, tell me why you're so confident based on what the mathematical equation is.

MCCARTHY: Because I live in America.

REPORTER: No, but, I mean, this is a serious--

MCCARTHY: It is a serious question. Have you ever-- okay, take the current situation out. Have you ever come to me on no matter what you thought I couldn't solve that I wasn't confident?

REPORTER: I'm not questioning your confidence. I'm questioning on whether you can.

MCCARTHY: But you're asking why I'm confident because who I am, and I just don't give up.

So, there are obstacles in my life. I have fallen many times. There was a time I was going to be speaker and I couldn't and you guys all counted me out. I'm speaker. I'm the 55th speaker of the House. You're confident that government was going to shut down. You were confident the debt ceiling wouldn't get done. But each and every time, if it's an obstacle, I view it as a challenge and we're going to solve the challenge. We'll take it heads up.

REPORTER: Are you confident that you'll hold on?

MCCARTHY: I'm confident I'll hold on.

REPORTER: Do you think this is going to keep coming up repeatedly?

MCCARTHY: It could. It seems very personal with Matt. It doesn't look like he's looking out for the country or the institution. I mean, I gave this quote away. You ought to read-- maybe I'll give it to you later in a process of (INAUDIBLE).

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Are you ruling out any sort of power sharing agreement with Democrats or any sort of deal with Democrats?

MCCARTHY: That doesn't work. Look, I'm a conservative. I'm a Republican. I'm a conservative, one who gets things done. Look, I know we live in-- our government is designed to have compromise. But, look, we're in the majority. You don't surrender. Do you work with the other side? Yes, and that's what I've done. I mean, from the day I came in, I've always said I'm going to treat Hakeem the way I wanted to be treated. I think you've seen that. Everything doesn't have to be political.

And I firmly believe when you look at history, and I-- when I talk to the other speakers, like a Boehner or Paul Ryan, the first thing when they would meet, Nancy Pelosi would come and she would simply say to him, if anyone ever did that motion, we would stand with you, not because of you and not because we agree politically, simply because of the institution needs to be able to stand on its own.

The first thing she did when she became speaker was she removed that. And you know what? It gave me the power to make that motion on her. I had a lot of Republicans that wanted me to do it. I never did it. Did Nancy and I get along? No, we really don't get along. But I thought the institution was too important and I thought that was too personal.

But, you know, at the end of the day, keeping government open and paying our troops was the right decision. I stand by that decision. And then the day, if I have to lose my job over it, so be it. But I'm going to fight for the American public and I'll continue to fight.

Thank you all very much.

SIDNER: All right. That was Kevin McCarthy, the speaker of the House there, talking about the fact that there are five Republicans who want to knock him out of office, of the 435 or so odd people in Congress. But he says he's going to keep fighting and that he doesn't feel like he needs Democrats' help.

I want to bring in our David Chalian. David, a very different question to ask to you now after hearing from the speaker. Just what is your take as you listen to what he's saying, saying he doesn't need to help from Democrats, that he is not willing to do a power sharing agreement, and that he is going to continue to fight and he's proud of keeping the government open and paying the troops. And that was the right decision and whatever happens, happens.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: He was also crystal clear on the math. I mean, on the math of this, he does potentially need Democrats' help, but he understood the political reality. He said, I get politics and beyond a power sharing agreement, which he said wasn't feasible, the idea that Democrats are going to come and help him, which, of course, is not a settled matter in their own caucus yet, is something he thinks is sort of farfetched.

It sounded like to me, he made it crystal clear, guys. He said, if five Republicans join all the Democrats in this, then I'm out, right? And, yes, he's confident that he will be able to hang on, but he is keenly aware of where the numbers are at the moment on this.

So, we await a word from the Democratic caucus as to how they are going to position themselves on this. But it certainly sounded to my ear, after hearing that there was, and Manu reported earlier, a conversation between Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic leader, and the speaker, Kevin McCarthy, tell me if you guys disagree, but to my ear, Kevin McCarthy did not seem to think out of that conversation that he had a deal that the Democrats were going to save him. Maybe I'm misinterpreting.

BERMAN: To be clear, Kevin McCarthy just basically said probably so there are five Republicans voting against him.

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That's enough to get him out if all Democrats also vote to oust him.

BOLDUAN: But what's not said there as he was leaning into, I'm standing here for the institution, he's not talking about standing up for the Republican conference here.

BERMAN: No, he was talking to Democrats there.

BOLDUAN: That's what I'm saying. What's unsaid is this appeal across the aisle in between the lines of what Kevin McCarthy -- the words Kevin McCarthy was using.

Standing next to Kevin McCarthy as he was speaking was our Manu Raju who is joined at the hip. Not because you want to be because you're great at reporting on him, Manu. What did you hear just now from Kevin McCarthy?

RAJU: Yes. Look, this is the key line I thought was towards the end there. I asked him about whether or not he would be open to any sort of power sharing agreement with Democrats.

This has been something that had been sort of floated by some Democratic members as perhaps one reason why they can help to cut a deal with the speaker of the House here. He ruled that out. He said there's no surrender to liberals. I don't see how that could really work.

So, what can he actually give Democrats? That is uncertain at this moment. And he's suggesting that perhaps there's not a whole lot he can give them. He's trying to make an institutional argument to Democrats saying that this is not good for the House for have this sort of instability.

But a lot of Democrats don't simply trust Kevin McCarthy. He could simply vote for him to stay in power simply because of that argument and suggesting that he could also lose his job. He thinks he could stay in the job but he also said he might not be in the job anymore. So, he was really uncertain about whether he can actually stay there and what he can give Democrats to come along.

Now, I can tell you, though, I've been spending all morning talking to Republicans coming in and out of this conference meeting. They are furious at Matt Gaetz because, virtually, all of them are in line with Kevin McCarthy, even though he has lost more than five Republican votes, enough to push him out of the speakership if all Democrats agree too also.

And they're also bluntly concerned that this dysfunction and this chaos and this back and forth could cost them the Republican majority.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. BOB GOOD (R-VA): For the Speaker to totally surrender and capitulate on Saturday to pass an unconditional C.R. with 209 Democrat votes and all votes in the Senate, was a bad deal for the American people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm favorably disposed to it, yes.

REP. DON BACON (R-NE): This is not a fluke. You're going to have five or ten people grind this place down to a halt repeatedly. And the definition of insanity is to keep expecting something different but doing the same thing over and over. I don't -- I can anticipate this back in January.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, that last congressman was Congressman Don Bacon, who said that there are some preliminary discussions going on among some rank and file members to see if there's any sort of give on the Democratic side to move ahead.

Now, the Democrats at the moment are meeting behind closed doors with Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic leader, and they have not yet come to a position yet on how they will vote on this very key issue.

The first vote is expected in the 1:30 P.M. Eastern vote series. That would be a vote to essentially kill Matt Gaetz's motion to push Kevin McCarthy out of the speakership. So, if the leadership does not succeed in killing that motion, McCarthy does not succeed in killing that motion, that means it's still alive. And that means they will move by tomorrow, but probably as soon as today to actually vote to eject McCarthy from the speakership.

And at the moment, guys, he is in serious jeopardy of losing that vote, and then they can go on and on until they elect a new speaker. Guys?

BERMAN: This could be Kevin McCarthy's last day of speaker of the House. And it will be Kevin McCarthy's last day as speaker of the House unless Democrats jump into save him. That is the situation as it stands right now, as we are counting the votes.

So, let's go to Lauren Fox, who is standing outside this meeting where Democrats have been gathered now for over an hour, hashing out what their plans are, Lauren. What are you hearing? What might Democrats do?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Yes, John, behind me, Democrats hearing from their leadership about really the procedural steps that could happen on the floor of the House of Representatives. This is a technical effort, so there has to be an education process for members to understand what they could expect to see on the floor later today.

You heard from our colleague, Manu Raju, that we expect that this could start to unfold around 1:30 this afternoon.

We haven't heard officially what Democrats are going to do. Just a handful of members have come out of this meeting. Most of them are still behind closed doors, listening to their leadership, having a family conversation about how they want to move forward.

But I will tell you, when you heard Kevin McCarthy say that he's a conservative, he's a Republican, he didn't really know what he could offer Democrats, many Democrats that I talked to going into this meeting made clear they were not helping him out for free.

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So, if he wasn't going to offer them anything, there's not a lot of hope that Democrats are going to unite to bail him out. In fact, Maxine Waters, who was going into the meeting, I asked, are you going to bail out Kevin McCarthy? And she said bail out McCarthy and then sort of made a woo sound, basically making fun of the idea that Democrats would be helpful in this scenario if they got -- if they did not get something out of it.

But, you know, there're problems with potentially you entering into a power-sharing agreement or coming to some kind of place with Democrats where you give them things that they want. Kevin McCarthy is a conservative. He's a Republican. He made that clear today in those comments. And he's basically saying I'm not going to change my position politically or on issues or on spending just to save my job. Obviously, that is where things stand right now with McCarthy saying he's not offering Democrats anything, and many Democrats that I talked to saying they would not save McCarthy without some kind of key extraction.

BERMAN: All right. Lauren Fox, all we can say is keep us posted. Continue to bang on that door and see if anyone opens it and tells you anything. Thank you for being with us.

BOLDUAN: So we've got a lot of moving parts with this and a lot can change just in the coming minutes. Votes are going to be coming.

Coming up, we're going to speak with a member of House leadership, House Republican leadership, Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis is going to be joining us on what happened behind those closed doors amongst Republicans and what is going to happen now with Speaker McCarthy.

We'll be right back.

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BOLDUAN: We are following breaking news. This is a video from a short time ago when Hunter Biden went into court. But we have just learned that Hunter Biden has pleaded not guilty in a Delaware courtroom, as he was being arraigned on three federal gun charges. We'll continue to bring you updates from Delaware as they come in. But we are also following real developments on Capitol Hill right now. Moments ago, we heard together from House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, as the House is preparing to gavel in for the day and potentially decide his future as speaker.

We are learning that McCarthy will attempt, from sources in the room, McCarthy will attempt to block the effort led by Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz to put forward this motion to vacate, as it is called, but essentially to oust, bring a vote forward to oust Kevin McCarthy as speaker. But what happens from here and whether Kevin McCarthy is speaker after today remains a big question.

Joining us right now, a Republican from New York, Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis, she's a member of the leadership team as assistant whip. Congresswoman, thank you so much for coming on.

Can you give us a sense of what happened inside that conference room just now, that conference meeting?

REP. NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS (R-NY): There was a lot of rallying behind Kevin McCarthy. He gave a really great speech. And he always does. He always looks to bring everyone together and realize that it's not about us, it's actually about governing for the American people, making sure that we're delivering on our promises.

Look, we've said we want to secure the border. We said we want to bring fiscal responsibility. We said we wanted to bring good government reforms to the way this body runs. And he's doing those things. And the fact that one individual wants to do this motion to vacate, why, because we actually prevented a shutdown the other day because we averted a debt default a few months ago?

I mean, he's fulfilling his promises to make sure we do this appropriations process the right way with 12 individual subject bills. We've done 4 out of the 12. The Senate have done none of those. But we need to move forward with this process, do the remaining eight. And this motion is certainly just a distraction. And I think it's going to differentiate between those who are here to govern and those who are here just to play charades.

BOLDUAN: Part of your job as assistant whip -- well, the job of whip is to count votes. Kevin McCarthy, when he left your conference gathering just now, he acknowledged that there could be five votes. There are five votes that could join Democrats and oust him as speaker.

Right now, do you see the votes are there, those five Republicans to oust him as speaker?

MALLIOTAKIS: I don't know that they are there. And I think that's what today's conference was all about. When you saw the room all standing up and cheering for him, you think that he has the votes. And I think that he has the overwhelming majority of support from our conference.

I mean, but this is what happens when you have such a slim majority. BOLDUAN: I'm not questioning the overwhelming majority, absolutely. But the point is, with such a slim majority, five votes can be the end of his speakership. And right now, he said probably so when asked if those five votes are there to join Democrats. Do you think today could be the last day that Kevin McCarthy is speaker?

MALLIOTAKIS: I think Kevin is going to prevail. I think he's going to move forward. But, again, think about -- the people have to think about what's going on here. We had a conservative package that was put on the floor and Matt Gaetz and his small group derailed it, okay? That would have worked towards securing our border to bringing fiscal responsibility. And now, Matt wants to blame the speaker for working across party lines to get something done to avert a shutdown.

That doesn't warrant punishment. That doesn't warrant to be removed. It should be actually applauded that our speaker was brave and courageous enough to do the right thing for the American people for our military men and women that needed to be paid, to keep our government open in a responsible way so the programs continue to work for the American people. That's what we were doing.

And --

BOLDUAN: But, Congresswoman, this is where -- absolutely, but this is where you are now. And can you, can Kevin McCarthy stay in -- continue to hold the gavel without the help of Democrats, be that them voting for him to remain as speaker, voting with him to, in this motion, to table, or not showing up so the threshold is lower? Can he do this without Democrats' assistance?

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