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Republicans Jim Jordan and Steve Scalise vie for House Speaker; Trump returns to the campaign trail amid civil fraud trial; Kaiser Permanente faces largest healthcare strike in U.S. history; Actors Union and studio CEOs in talks to end Hollywood standstill; Mass shooting at Morgan State University's homecoming. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 04, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: The race for Kevin McCarthy's replacement is heating up. Republicans, Congressman Jim Jordan and Steve Scalise have thrown their hats into the ring and could face other challengers for House speaker.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, after 2.5 days in court for his civil fraud trial, former President Donald Trump is heading back to the campaign trail, but not before going after the judge who put him under a gag order. We'll take you live to the courthouse and police searching for suspects after a mass shooting during homecoming week celebrations at a university. We have the latest on that search. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

BROWN: And now there are two. Minutes ago, House Majority Leader Steve Scalise made it official announcing that he will run to replace Kevin McCarthy as House Speaker. And it comes just hours after fellow hardline conservative Jim Jordan publicly said he will run. Both would need to win over more moderate members of their conference. And there is no time to waste a full vote on aspeaker is expected next week. But until then, the house is essentially paralyzed with the shutdown deadline looming in mid November. CNN's Melanie Zanona joins us live on Capitol Hill. So what more do we know about Scalise's announcement that he's going to run for Speaker and who else might be challenging him?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITAL HILL REPORTER: Well, Pam, the race for Speaker is officially on less than 12 hours after that stunning vote to remove Kevin McCarthy as Speaker. And I had been told that Steve Scalise, the number two Republican, had been already making calls last night to allies lining up supporters. But today, just moments ago, he made it official in a letter to his colleagues. I want to read you part ofthat letter. He wrote, God already gave me another chance at life. I believe we were all put here for a purpose. This next chapter won't be easy, but I know what it takes to fight and I'm prepared for the battles that lie ahead. I humbly ask you for your support on this mission to be your Speaker of the House. So, Pam,a reference there to the fact that Steve Scalise was shot at a

GOP baseball practice back in 2017. He is also undergoing treatments right now for blood cancer, but he says he is up for the job. He is feeling great. And this is a moment that he has long been waiting for. He has long been waiting in the wings to potentially ascend whenever Kevin McCarthy did step aside. But it is not going to be a coronation for Steve Scalise. He is going to have to face off against Jim Jordan. He is the House Judiciary Chairman. He is liked by conservatives. He was a McCarthy ally. And Jim Jordan also made it official with his own letter today. And Manu Raju also caught up with him this morning. Here's what he had to say.

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MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What promises are you making to the conference? Policy-wise, agenda-wise?

REP. JIM JORDON (R - OH): The agenda is what I spoke about on the floor, Manu. We need to pass the bills that need to be passed. We've done a lot of that. The biggest one, of course, is H.R. 2, the immigration border security legislation. Frankly, I wish Chuck Schumer would bring it up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: Now, both men made their case today before the Texas Republican delegation, a very large block of Republicans and powerful block of Republicans in the House. But we're not going to know how this really shakes out until next week. Tuesday is when Republicans will hold their candidate forum. On Wednesday, they will hold their leadership elections. We're also being told that there is now a scramble underway for lower leadership posts.

You have Tom Emmer, for example. He's going to be running for majority leader. His deputy, Guy Reschenthaler, are now going to be running for whip. And I'm also told that Elise Stefanik is keeping her options open, also interested in moving up the ladder. But the big question, Pam, remains, can Republicans agree on someone to lead their unruly conference? Until they decide that question, the House is going to be paralyzed. They can't conduct any other business. Hopefully, Republicans think they'll have the answer to that question next week. Pam.

BROWN: And, of course, the backdrop of that is another looming government shutdownthat around 40 days from now. Melanie Zanona, thank you so much. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Let's now discuss with someone who will soon be voting for a new speaker, Republican Congressman Warren Davidson of Ohio joins us now. He's a member of the House Freedom Caucus. Congressman, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us. So, Congressman Jim Jordan and Steve Scalise both officially announcing they will seek the speakership. Will you support either of them?

REP. WARREN DAVIDSON (R-OH): Well, we'll see if that's the only range of candidates in the field. There are certainly other folks that are kind of feeling out what's possible. And I think Melanie laid it out right. We're not really going to know until Republicans are back in Washington, D.C., together. Most of us are still here in D.C., I think. People are scattered around the country, to be sure. But I think the bulk are still here in D.C. networking and having these conversations. I think it was a smart decision by Patrick McHenry to say maybe we should have vent separately instead of all together. And that's been healthy. So I've had conversations with people across the conference and what I've shared is the same that I shared with CNN last night is, I think whomever can cast a vision that brings the conference together is gonna be, is gonna emerge as the speaker. Because the right question is, I think it's harder for everyone in the conference to trust any one person than it is to have confidence in a shared mission.

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SANCHEZ: And on that question of unity, Congressman, how confident are you that the chairman of the Judiciary Committee that's carrying out an impeachment inquiry of President Biden that is divisive and controversial in Jim Jordan, how confident are you that he can unite your party?

DAVIDSON: Well, I think he has. And frankly, he's perceived so differently in moderate districts. And I think that's something that some moderates have felt out with me and I've felt out with them and said, well, how would this person, that person, including Jim Jordan work in your district? And they're like, well, now that I'm in Congress, I see why everyone has so much respect for Jim Jordan. I'm not sure that works in my district. So I don't know if Jim will be the guy that will be the first pick for most moderates. But I do believe that a lot of them could see how he would be an effective leader for the whole conference.

I think the other thing is we've had this kind of fractious divide in the Republican politics. Unity of command is one of the principles of war. And I think, how do you unite the party? And maybe it's maybe you have a more conservative speaker and it's the moderates that are trying to drag the party to the left. Part of the frustration for a lot of the base has been kind of the donor part of the party has been much more centrist for Republican politics. If Jim becomes the speaker, maybe you can have everyone kind of participating in all fronts. And maybe Steve Scalise can too, because he's cast a vision as a more conservative member. So we'll see how the conversation goes in terms of Tuesday night.

SANCHE: Sure. On questions of priorities for the next speaker, do you think whoever takes over should immediately put the impeachment inquiry of Joe Biden up for a vote?

DAVIDSON: I think the most pressing thing is the November 17th deadline. We have to get our 12 appropriations bills passed. Steve Scalise had put an aggressive timeline out just before the CR vote on Saturday. And that was something that was bringing some unity together. Part of the division has been, hey, how are we gonna ask for a 45-day CR? In the original calendar, Congress was not in session in D.C. the first two weeks of October. So how are we gonna ask for a 45- day CR and then spend the first 15 days scattered all over the world? We have to be here getting the appropriations bills done. We already missed the deadline of October 1st. So I think that has to be the priority right up front.

SANCHEZ: I do wanna ask you about the priorities for spending specifically on Ukraine, but I wanna go back to the question of the impeachment inquiry. Should there not be a vote on the House floor for the impeachment of the sitting president?

DAVIDSON: Well, the inquiry already is underway. I mean, that was already kicked off by Speaker McCarthy. That's underway, and there's a lot of evidence that would say, yeah, Joe Biden should be impeached. And so I think that investigation will continue. The committees can continue their work. So I assume that committees will be full speed ahead on the tasks within the jurisdiction of the committee.

SANCHEZ: There are questions about the evidence you reported to have shown in the impeachment inquiry, but I do wanna move on because you have actually sponsored legislation to define the mission in Ukraine. Obviously, spending on aid in Ukraine is another top issue for whoever the next speaker is to sort out. You've called for the administration to give specifics on what victory looks like. Can you give us specifics on how you define victory in Ukraine? Is it the retaking of Crimea?

DAVIDSON: No, and look, if you look at the administration, they've been all over the map. I mean, they started off offering Zelenskyy ride out of the country, and apparently, it would have been okay with them if Russia occupied Ukraine. Now, they would have protested about it, but Zelenskyy inspired the world when he said, I don't need a ride, I need ammunition. So they just kind of reactively have dumped $113 billion into Ukraine, and they've kind of dosed it out.

He's like, I need all this, and they're like, well, you can't have that. So while it is grinding the Russian army down, it has ground down the Ukrainian army and the nation as well. So I don't think Biden's approach has been well thought out, and if it has been, shame on them.

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SANCHEZ: We can continue talking about Biden's approach, but I'm curious about yours, sir. How do you define victory in Ukraine if Vladimir Zelenskyy is saying that victory for him is retaking Ukraine, or rather, retaking Crimea, but some folks, especially in the West, here in the United States, don't see eye to eye on that? What does victory look like?

DAVIDSON: I think for the United States, our interest is in making sure that the war doesn't spread, and there's a peaceful resolution to it. I think that Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine was unjust. I do believe it was preventable, but at that point, you know, it's already happened. So how do we resolve that? I think there should be peace negotiations underway that stop the bloodshed. And I really don't think that a long war favors Ukraine. A long war favors Russia. And it's waged differently. So that's why the mission is so important. If you say we're going to go with a long war strategy, this is only going to involve Ukraine and Russia.

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Ukraine does not have enough combat power to kick the Russian army out of Ukraine. They don't have enough combat power, certainly, to kick them out of Crimea. Or if you go with what Secretary Victoria Nuland from the State Department has said, her policy is regime change in Russia, including war tribunals for Vladimir Putin. I'm not saying that's unjust, but it is unachievable for Ukraine.

SANCHEZ: And Congressman, quickly before we let you go, there is a question as to whether or not Ukraine funding will even make it for a vote on the House floor. Do you think it should?

DAVIDSON: Look, the clear will of the Congress is overwhelmingly they support Ukraine. But there's a rule in the Republican politics that you've got to have a majority of the majority party before something brings to the floor. And I think that's something the conference should have a dialogue about, because it's right around 50-50 right now whether the conference supports any additional funding. And I don't think there's going to be support for it, frankly, from Republicans until Joe Biden does what surely they already have somewhere is a mission. Maybe they're not on the same page across the administration, but they better get that way and they need to come here and brief us on it. It can be in the most classified setting, but they do have to define a mission. And we can't hold them accountable for success or failure if they don't do that.

SANCHEZ: Congressman Warren Davidson, we very much appreciate your time, sir. Thanks so much.

DAVIDSON: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course. Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Boris, day three of Donald Trump's civil fraud trial is about to resume after a lunch recess, this time without Trump. Right now he is on his way back to Florida, though he did attend this morning's session, three days in a row in court for the former president. Yesterday, his rhetoric targeting a court clerk resulted in a gag order.

Well, today, he did not tone things down much, railing against the New York attorney general and the judge once again. CNN's Kara Scannell is at the courthouse. So, Kara, with the Trump board of financials being intensely scrutinized in that courtroom, Trump has created quite the spectacle outside.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Pamela, he has. He's taken every opportunity to speak as he was entering in the courtroom and exiting the courtroom during breaks or at the end of the day. And we're expecting the New York attorney general to respond to some of these comments shortly in the hallways outside of the courtroom where this trial is taking place now that the former president has left the building.

But inside court, it has also been a little fiery today. There was cross-examination of the state's first witness. That's Trump's longtime accountant, Donald Bender. He is testifying about how he helped compile the financial statements that the Trump organization prepared. That's at the heart of this case. And Trump's lawyers trying to win some points on cross-examination. They had Bender testify that, you know, according to accounting guidance, he is supposed to, in compiling these statements, look for any obviously inappropriate values. And Bender testified that for 10 years when he was looking at these values, that years that issue in this litigation, he said nothing jumped out as obviously an inappropriate value.

And of course, the allegations here that these financial statements were inflated. The judge did find that. But Trump's lawyers are appealing and they filed their notice of appeal on that today as well. You know, the judge, though, has become frustrated with the Trump attorney's cross-examination of Bender saying at one point that Bender is not on trial, that someone else is. And Trump's attorney said that they disagree with that. They think his credibility is on trial. So the judge also becoming frustrated with how they were going methodically year by year, property by property.

You know, there are dozens of properties and there were 10 years at issue here. And the judge slamming his fists on the bench several times saying this is ridiculous. You're not allowed to waste time. So cross-examination will begin again shortly once the session starts again this afternoon. And it's Trump's attorneys have said that they could go the rest of the day with Bender as the witness. Pam.

BROWN: All right, Kara Scannell, thank you so much. Now let's bring in CNN contributor and former Nixon White House counsel John Dean. So John, we now know that Trump will appeal the fraud ruling. Some real estate experts have questioned one specific aspect of that ruling, Mar-a-Lago's value. And you just heard Kara lay out the witness saying that he never saw anything that would have raised a red flag to him. How do you see this playing out?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR AND FORMER NIXON WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Well, what I see is clearly Trump is trying to build a record for appeal. He knows he's lost with this judge. You don't go into the hall of a trial courtroom and smash the judge and the prosecutor and think you're going to get any favors from that judge. So what he's doing is trying to build a record that is not going to impress this judge but he hopes will get to a court of appeals.

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BROWN: All right let's talk about this gag order because we know that a judge imposed one on Trump in this case after he had targeted a clerk on social media and it seems like Trump is really flirting with a fine line here in terms of his attacks against the judge and the -- the prosecution before and after court today and I'm wondering are the judges and prosecutors in these other cases he's facing watching this closely and how do you think that what's happening in this case could factor into what happens in those cases as it pertains to gag orders? DEAN: I think that the judges in the other case are very much watching

this panel because his behavior is consistent. If you go back to his starting of the campaign when he first ran for president he had a case relating to Trump University and in that case he just he just smeared the judge constantly. He finally ended up settling that case for 25 million dollars. So this is this is his MO. It's a standard procedure to try these cases in the court of public opinion and hope that he gains there. Why people would be attracted to somebody who bullies people who really are not in a position to fight back, I don't understand. Judges don't speak outside the courtroom. They don't have defenders that go out and take up their cause. So this is typical bully behavior by Trump to beat up on judges.

BROWN: Trump is now heading to Florida after attending the trial for three days straight. Do you think his presence there made any impact at all? Made any difference?

DEAN: Well what he tried to do is influence the narrative of the case that there was something amiss that he had to speak out in the hall every break he could get. I thought it was very lenient of the judge and the security people to let him do it because the judge he knows it's not going to affect him and I don't think it's going to affect the Court of Appeals. So the record that's being made inside the courtroom may or may not have any influence. If it's a good record if they make good points it will influence a higher court possibly could influence this judge who will address it when he reaches his final decision in this case. But judges are not easily influenced by this kind of showboating.

BROWN: All right John Dean, thank you so much. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Brace yourselves we all are in the studio because we're just moments away from a nationwide test of the emergency alert system and wireless emergency alerts. The federal government plans to conduct a drill today at 2 20 p.m. Eastern in just over two minutes sending out a test signal to every TV radio and cell phone across America. CNN's Omar Jimenez has the latest and Omar I want to emphasize this is only a test there's no need to panic.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDNET: Yes, no need to panic that that's it let's just be clear about that and the alert when it comes in literally just a few minutes is going to say that this is a test of the emergency alert system the wireless emergency alert system no action needed and that's the key portion here. What they're trying to do is just trying to make sure --

SANCHEZ: We're going to break though, we'll be right back.

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SANCHEZ: Right now, more than 75,000 Kaiser Permanente employees are on the picket lines in the largest healthcare strike in American history. The strike includes nursing staff, radiology experts, and x- ray technicians, pharmacists, and many other positions. Workers are looking for better pay, and they want management to fix short staffing, saying that having too few staff constantly is bad for patient care. Listen.

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DAVID HAWA, KAISER AMBULATORY CARE PHARMACIST: We have a crisis inside, a staffing crisis, that affects us and subsequently affects our patients.

SARAH LEVESQUE, SECRETARY TREASURER FOR OPEIU LOCAL 2: Some of the people out here on strike today are our optometrists. And their patients are looking at three months to get an appointment because they are so short staffed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Keep in mind, Kaiser provides healthcare for about 13 million people, and while most of its doctors are not on strike, many patients may still be affected. In a statement today, Kaiser said that it continues to negotiate with the unions and that a lot of progress has been made. Let's find out just how much. We're joined now by Caroline Lucas. She's the executive director for the Coalition of Kaiser Permanente Unions. Caroline, thank you so much for being with us this afternoon. Have you heard from negotiators with the company now that the strike has begun? What's the latest on the negotiations?

CAORLINE LUCAS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR - COALITION OF KAISE PERMANENTE UNIONS: Hi, thank you so much for having me. We continue to negotiate to be available. This crisis is so critical that we can't afford to wait for solutions.

SANCHEZ: So Caroline, when it comes to what you're actually hearing from the company, have they made any concessions that are getting closer to what you and the other workers have asked for?

LUCAS: We have reached minor agreements on some matters. We're waiting for this real comprehensive plan for how we target and conquer Kaiser's staff crisis.

SANCHEZ: So on the question of what this means for patients, who ultimately is filling in for those that are on strike today, how is that working out?

LUCAS: You know, we know patients are standing frontline healthcare providers who are in front of Kaiser facilities because they know that Kaiser is looking to provide the best possible patient care. Kaiser, unfortunately, has brought in an expensive contracted agency for frontline healthcare workers to replace us. And we know that those expensive replacement workers just aren't as good as that investment in Kaiser's staff.

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SANCHEZ: Caroline, it seems like we're having some issues with the audio signal, but we do appreciate your time. We hope you'll come back to discuss. We'll get that signal worked out and hopefully have a conversation about how the strike has wrapped up because both sides have come together. Thank you so much for the time. Of course, Pam.

BROWN: All right, Boris, so new developmentsand another strike. We're following the Actors Union, SAG-AFTRA, and key studio CEOs are meeting again today. More talks. The standoff has been going on for months and the impacts have been felt nationwide. CNN's Oliver Darcy has the latest on this. Oliver.

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: That's right, Pam. The studio chiefs for the four big studios are meeting today with the actors. This is the second time they've met this week as they hope to hammer out a deal that will bring the Hollywood standstill to an end. Now, there are some major issues that obviously these two sides need to work out, artificial intelligence being one of the main concerns that the actors have. But there's some hope in Hollywood that after the writer's strike got resolved that the studios might be able to use some of that blueprint to get this actor strike resolved. Of course, it doesn't really matter too much that the writers have -- resolved their issues with the studios and ended that strike if there are no actors to bring those scripts that they're writing to life.

And so the studios are very anxious and hopefully they can get this resolved so that they can bring back those shows later this year and get movies filming once again. Pam.

BROWN: All right, Oliver Darcy, thank you so much for that. A homecoming hell, several students were shotduring a mass shooting on Morgan State University's campus. We are live in Baltimore.

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