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Trump Endorses Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) for House Speaker; Multiple House Republicans Angry Over Prospect of Speaker Candidates Debating on Fox News; Hillary Clinton Says, MAGA Extremism Leading the GOP. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 06, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: People are pissed. That is the take. That's the quote that we have now from House -- of that House moderate Republicans, how they're feeling about this new idea of a televised debate between candidates for House Speaker now. What the frenzy of phone calls and behind the scenes appeals, and now this debate mean for the House majority currently still in a mess.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Formal deprogramming of MAGA cult members. That is what Hillary Clinton says needs to happen in the race for House Speaker. We have an exclusive interview with CNN.

BOLDUAN: Big numbers, the U.S. adding 336,000 jobs last month, nearly double what economists were expecting. The acting labor secretary is our guest and President Biden is preparing to speak out as well.

I'm Kate Bolduan with John Berman. This is CNN News Central.

BERMAN: This morning, that new word of a televised debate between the leading candidates to be House speaker, a new reporting on the difference that a Donald Trump endorsement can make. Is it an issue of addition or subtraction?

Overnight, Trump endorsed House Judiciary Chair Jim Jordan to be the next speaker over the majority leader, Steve Scalise. Trump might want to be a kingmaker here, but could it have the opposite effect?

Scalise and Jordan have been working the phones and continue to do so all weekend long to drum up support.

So, let's figure out where things stand. Seeing as Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill. Lauren, what are you hearing?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, this morning, obviously, a lot of questions about what Trump's endorsement for Jim Jordan really means for him in the race. In some ways, Jim Jordan was already a favorite of conservatives and members of the House Freedom Caucus, many of whom are watching Trump's endorsement closely. But on the other hand, the larger question that is looming right now is how these two candidates, Jim Jordan and Steve Scalise, are going to win over some of their moderate colleagues, Republicans who won in districts that Biden carried in the last presidential election. That is where the focus is.

And it's important to note that many of them this morning, according to reporting from our colleague, Melanie Zanona, are deeply frustrated and angry about this fact that these candidates are going to be talking to Bret Baier on Fox News before they are having a fuller conversation with the Republican conference.

We expect that next week things could move quickly. Obviously a lot of questions on whether they get to the floor for House speaker vote. But on Monday, we expect a Republican conference meeting, in the evening, on Tuesday, a candidate forum, on Wednesday, a vote among the conference on who they want to be speaker. But the larger question of when they would go to the floor for that remains. And right now, neither of these candidates have locked down the 218 votes that they would need.

Now, does Donald Trump's endorsement help Jim Jordan in the long run? Does that actually make it tougher for him with moderates? Those are the key questions this morning, John.

BERMAN: Talk to me a little bit more. Kate has a potty mouth. She said moderates are pissed about this televised debate. What is it that they want to see or what exactly is their sensitivity with how this plays out?

FOX: Yes. Well John, think about how House Republicans have been dealing with the last week. They started with Speaker Kevin McCarthy on Monday. They no longer have a speaker who can actually govern on the floor. And I think there's a lot of frustration right now that the House Republicans need to have a private family conversation before going out and sort of airing any dirty laundry in public.

And I think that that is part of the frustration. That is part of the concern this morning. This is about governing, so many Republicans are arguing. And they need to come to a consensus as a conference as soon as possible so they can continue moving on with these spending bills, because, remember, a government funding deadline is hitting on November 17th.

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And the longer this internal debate wears on, the longer this is a fight between Jim Jordan and Steve Scalise, the longer it is until that government gets funded.

BERMAN: All right. Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill, keep us posted if you hear anything. Kate, keep it clean.

BOLDUAN: Okay, stop it. Let's talk more about this in the race ahead and what's happening here. Republican Congressman Tim Burchett of Tennessee joins us now. He was one of the eight Republicans, as you well know, who voted to oust Kevin McCarthy earlier this week as speaker. Congressman Burchett, thank you so much for joining me.

Have you reached a decision yet on who you'd like to endorse or who you want to support for speaker?

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): No, ma'am, I haven't. I'm not really big on endorsements. I've always said that you don't really pick up friends with endorsements, just enemies. And so all my conversations are private and I feel the same way about debates. You know, you bring your side, I bring my side, and we both leave thinking we won. So, I don't really have a lot of -- I don't have any animosity towards any of those. But I've talked to both Steve and Jim at length. They're both very good friends and I'm going to listen to what they have to say.

I guess I'm concerned, you know, it sounds real trendy and hip, but I am concerned about their vision for our party and our country. And my biggest concern is fiscal responsibility. We cannot continue taking in $5 trillion a year and spending $7 trillion. And we owe $33 trillion in debt. If you remember, in three months, we racked up another trillion dollars in debt.

And on $33 trillion in debt, about $1 trillion of that is for interest. I mean, that's money we're just giving to the Chinese or whoever we're borrowing the money from. So, that is my concern right now.

BOLDUAN: Congressman, does Donald Trump's endorsement of Jim Jordan matter to you?

BURCHETT: No, ma'am, it doesn't. As I stated, President Trump, he's been kind to me and he's a friend. He even says my name right. It was Burchett, Burchett. It's kind of funny, really, but because he's one of the few that says my name right. But --

BOLDUAN: We're all working on it. I promise, Congressman.

BURCHETT: Yes, I know it. I know it, but you did great. You did great. My daughter is a barrel racer. And every time at every arena, they say it's something else. I just -- if they get Isabelle right, I'm happy. I know where she's supposed to be.

But all kidding aside, I don't really -- I don't, it will influence a lot of people because I think what President Trump was doing was, you know, they were considering him as speaker, and now that puts those people's focus on where it needs to be on who will be the next speaker of the House.

BOLDUAN: Well, it doesn't influence you Congressman. Do you think the fact that because of the influence that Donald Trump has over a big portion of the conference, do you think it, in some way, could make it just impossible for Steve Scalise to get 218 since Trump is behind Jordan?

BURCHETT: No, ma'am, I don't. Because, as you all stated, we've got moderate and, frankly, liberal members of our party and they're all dear friends of mine because I think that puts them in a different light. I think the net gain, it will be a net gain, but I think it might pull a couple off even. But I honestly think it helps Jim a lot in the caucus, in the conference.

BOLDUAN: You talked about your chief concern, hearing from the next speaker, is about fiscal responsibility. The question though has to be also, though, what about the concept of compromise, to reach consensus with Democrats in a divided Congress? Like if the next speaker says to you, are governments designed to find compromise? You can't get everything you want. You've got the House, you've got the Senate. Can you accept that?

BURCHETT: Yes, ma'am, I can. But you don't go to the Senate and say -- when you compromise and say we're going to cut 1 percent of the growth. And then you started above base. And I always give the example. I raised the speed limit in Tennessee. Actually, Steve Cohen was my Senate sponsor and I was the House sponsor. And I asked for 85 miles an hour, knowing that I would take 70.

Of course, I brought Peyton Manning to Nashville the week before and I guess I probably could have passed communism and gotten 100 miles an hour that week, but the reality is you've got to ask for more.

And also, ma'am, I think that both these men, Jim Jordan and Steve Scalise, realize the art of compromise, but you've got to go -- if I was speaker, I would go talk to the president every day. I would talk to Chuck Schumer every day.

BOLDUAN: The reason I quoted that specifically is because that is exactly what Kevin McCarthy said in the press conference after you all voted him out. So, if Kevin McCarthy said that and that's not good enough, why is it good enough for then the next speaker?

BURCHETT: Well, saying and doing are two different things. The Democrats overwhelmingly, more or less, I think they approved of him because they got everything they asked for, in reality, and we really got nothing.

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So, I think we keep going down that path and we lose. But I think when you have a strong leader, as those two gentlemen you mentioned are, and it could be a dark horse, somebody like a Kevin Hern, because he's a guy I think America could really fall in love with, grew up in a housing project, ended up owning a bunch of McDonald's restaurants and a bank, truly a self-made man.

So, the one good thing that we have in the Republican Party is a very deep bench, and that is going to serve well for this country. But I think America needs to also understand when the media says all this bad lemon chaos, ma'am, we followed the rules. We followed the rules that Kevin McCarthy voted for when we ousted him. So --

BOLDUAN: That is absolutely true. I have found myself saying more than once in the past week that Kevin McCarthy found himself between a rock and a hard place of his own design. On that, there's actually some developments in that. The motion to vacate is one of the things we're talking about here, that rule that allowed you all to fire Kevin McCarthy from speaker. There seems to be a push now from some Republicans, more moderate Republicans, to have a change in the rules.

I saw some reporting that there's a letter that was sent out by a group of 45 House Republicans to all of you essentially saying there's got to be changes to this rule. Would you sign on to changes in that rule, the motion to vacate?

BURCHETT: I would look at the reasons. That's been on the book since the 20s, and Nancy Pelosi took it out knowing that she would have a very thin margin and didn't want to face that opposition.

BOLDUAN: Even Mitch McConnell has said that it's got to change. Even Mitch McConnell has said that it's got to change.

BURCHETT: Well, Mitch McConnell doesn't tell me what to do, ma'am. He doesn't. He's up in Kentucky, and I'm in the second district of Tennessee, and I listen to what my folks say. And I appreciate all those folks. All of them have been friends to me and nice to me, but, ultimately, I have to make that decision.

And I don't have a problem with that, frankly, I think, but one person -- you know, it's a one -- everybody has a voice and that's really what was behind that movement.

I think that might go by the wayside. I think, honestly, that a lot of the members do, but I want to listen to all the arguments because it was put in place for a good reason.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Real quick, you told C-SPAN yesterday that some of your -- the way you put it, your well-heeled supporters have told you that they're no longer going to support you over your decision to -- over your vote, over your decision to oust Kevin McCarthy. We've heard from multiple House Republicans that this chaos could cause the Republicans to lose the House majority in 2024. Is this worth it if it costs you all the majority?

BURCHETT: Ma'am, we weren't doing anything. We need success. We shouldn't have waited until September 30th or the week before September to start working on the budget. We were home the whole month of August. We didn't do anything with term limits. We need to be addressing things like fentanyl, the border and our out of control spending. And yet, all of a sudden, that's what we were going to do at the end of September.

And so I would submit to you that I think the new leadership will do just that. They will address those things. And I don't think I don't -- honestly don't think it will cause one blip on Election Day. Everybody talks about COVID, January 6th, all these things, but I'm like America. I want my pizzas in 30 minutes or less, and that's about my attention span.

I think we're going to move on to other things. I think most America is just worried about their decreasing value of their dollar, these single moms that I represent --

BOLDUAN: They also do like to see that there's a functional legislative branch as -- and you know that, right now, it's not functioning, there's no speaker and you guys aren't coming back until Tuesday. If this does -- and I don't play in a hypothetical here, I just wanted to get your temperature on this. If it does cost you guys the majority, what's kind of played out in the last week, in your view, is it worth it.

BURCHETT: That's not my intention to cost us the majority and I don't think it will. So, I think that's -- you're saying something that could be, would be, you know, Jesus might come between now and then, too, and then I wouldn't have to worry about any of this.

But the reality is that I deal with what's in front of me and we're going to elect a speaker. The Republican Party will be united. There will be one vote on the floor and that will be it. And this will just be a distant memory very quick.

BOLDUAN: From barrel racing to the return of Jesus Christ. This has been quite an interview, as always. Congressman Burchett, thank you for your time.

BURCHETT: Thank you, ma'am. It's always a pleasure. And I will say that my wife --

BOLDUAN: Go ahead, go ahead.

BURCHETT: I was going to say I will say that was I have to get full credit to my wife. She's the one that said, well, you all voted on a rule -- you all voted Kevin out on a rule that he voted for and that the Republican Party and the Congress had actually passed.

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So, the rules are in place and we're moving ahead.

BOLDUAN: Best to your wife as well. Thank you so much, Congressman.

BURCHETT: Thank you, ma'am.

BOLDUAN: John?

BERMAN: And, look, I thought you were going to go on the whole name pronunciation thing and compare your own last name and how it's spelled there.

BOLDUAN: Well, his is spelled right and is pronounced right. Mine is spelled right, pronounced wrong, or spelled wrong and pronounced right. I'm not entirely sure.

BERMAN: Yes, he's got nothing on you.

All right, this morning, Hillary Clinton is weighing in on the mess in the House. An exclusive new interview with CNN's Christiane Amanpour. Have a listen. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: The base of the Republican Party for whatever combination of reasons, and it is emotional and psychological, sees in him someone who speaks for them. And they are determined that they will continue to vote for him, attend his rallies, wear his merchandise, because, for whatever reason, he and his, you know, very negative, nasty form of politics resonates with them.

Maybe they don't like migrants. Maybe they don't like gay people or black people or the woman who got the promotion at work they didn't get. Whatever the reason, you know, make America great again was a bid for nostalgia to return to a place where, you know, people could be in charge of their lives, feel empowered, say what they want, insult whoever came in their way. And that was really attractive to a significant portion of the Republican base. So, it is like a cult. And somebody has to break the break that momentum.

And that's why I believe Joe Biden will defeat him. And hopefully then, that will be the end and the fever will break and then Republicans can try to get back to, you know, fighting about issues among themselves and electing people who are at least, you know, responsible and accountable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And you can watch Christiane's full interview with Hillary Clinton Monday on Amanpour. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Coming up still for us, this week, the week that was, Capitol Hill had twists, turns, back flips, things that Simone Biles can't even pull off. So, how might it all play out going forward? We're going to discuss.

Plus, new reporting this morning that former President Trump allegedly disclosed sensitive information about nuclear submarines to a foreign cardboard tycoon at his Mar-a-Lago resort, what this -- why this is now in of interest to the special counsel.

And, plus, that huge job report we told you about at the beginning of the hour, President Biden set to speak. What does this mean for him, his administration, his re-election campaign. His acting labor secretary, Julie Su, joins the show.

We'll be back.

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BERMAN: This morning, the fallout after this chaotic week on Capitol Hill. A government shutdown was avoided. A speaker ousted. Matt Gaetz, after apparently a large meal, filed a motion to vacate against the Speaker of the house, Kevin McCarthy. By Tuesday night, McCarthy was out. BOLDUAN: I can't handle you some days, especially on Fridays.

Then by Wednesday, two Republicans had to put their names forth to take on the job, Jim Jordan and Steve Scalise. And now today, Donald Trump throwing his full support behind one of them, offering his endorsement for the job.

The week that was, let's dive into, is it tumultuous, was it a mess, was it chaotic, it's all led to paralysis, which is obviously not great. Let's see what we can do now.

Joining us now is National Political Reporter for The New York Times, CNN Political Analyst Astead Herndon and Republican Strategist and CNN Political Commentator Alice Stewart.

So, John and I thought we would take a moment, a step back to step forward, if you will. The week that was, please play along. Astead, first to you, who has more juice this weekend? Moderate Republicans, tThe House Freedom Caucus or someone else?

ASTEAD HERNDON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I'd say, in the short- term, it's probably moderate Republicans, because the people who are running to become the next speaker obviously need that group to cross over to 218, but the juice-haver in the Republican Party remains Donald Trump, and through that, the Freedom Caucus.

But in the short-term, I guess I would go with the moderate Republicans, because they're really holding the keys here, but whoever is going to be able to get to that number and become the next speaker.

BERMAN: The juice-maker ultimately might be.

BOLDUAN: The juice-haver is the juice-maker.

HERNDON: The real juice-haver remains Donald Trump.

BERMAN: Fill in the blank here. The one issue that might trip up the speaker election the most next week is blank.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Motion to vacate. Look, whoever is going to be the next speaker needs to make sure that the motion to vacate proposal is off the table. We cannot function, and, clearly, Kevin McCarthy could not govern with Matt Gaetz running around the Capitol, waving around the motion to vacate every time he didn't get his way.

And, look, Republicans need to get their act together. Yes, it's tumultuous, it's chaotic, it's a mess, but we need to get past this politics of grievances and get back to the politics of governing, because that's what they were elected to do. And the sooner they do that and the sooner they get a speaker in place that focuses on that, the better.

BOLDUAN: It's always interesting, and amongst many things from the conversation I just had with Tim Burchett in the last block, was that he seemed to be kind of in a place of, yes, the motion to vacate could change.

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He kind of accepted that that might be the way that that's going, though he did make clear, and he was very accurate in this. They were playing by the rules that were set forth in the House, Astead. So, this was, as we've discussed many times, this was Kevin McCarthy between a rock and a hard place of his own design.

But when it comes to Matt Gaetz, the chief rock and a hard placer, Matt Gaetz is going to regret his move to oust Kevin -- Astead.

HERNDON: well, I don't think Matt Gaetz is going to regret his move to oust Kevin McCarthy. I do think that the point you're making here is a good one. Kevin McCarthy sold kind of his soul before that speaker's gavel but really also set the set the training place for his own demise. That motion of vacate was always going to be an albatross hanging around him.

But people like Matt Gaetz are playing by completely different rules. The version of House members you have now do not feel deferential to the party. They do not feel like they have to kind of walk in lockstep with the caucus. And Gaetz is someone who I think the ecosystem around him is thinking about that he's going to be trying to run for Florida governor in a couple of years, where these type of stunts, these type of kind of thumbing his nose at Republican establishment would only play well.

I think that this is a Republican Party that is assuming that Donald Trump gets that Republican nomination. So, the closer you are queuing to his priorities, the better come for the next year. I think a lot of people are interested in Governor McCarthy motion, but I don't think Matt Gaetz has those interests and I don't think he regret it.

BERMAN: So, Alice, we just learned that Monday night, there is going to be this televised debate between Majority Leader Scalise and Judiciary Chair Jim Jordan, the two frontrunners right now for the speaker chair. What did the moderates say? They said they are --

BOLDUAN: Why do I -- they're pissed? It's like --

BERMAN: There are some moderates complaining that this is going to play out on television. And you saw Carlos Gimenez, the congressman, say that he thinks it's a really, really bad idea.

So, Alice, what are the chances that any of this looks less dysfunctional after this weekend?

STEWART: Zero. Look, the reality is we have two frontrunners that are throwing their hat in the ring for this position. Steve Scalise, who's working more behind the scenes, speaking directly with members that he has a strong relationship making the case, Jim Jordan is doing the same, but he's also really getting out there on television and conservative radio and talk shows and going about this campaign for speakership in a different way. I happen to think this public debate is a good thing for people to see the issues. And Scalise has made it clear, he wants to focus on the priorities that they were elected to do, which is reining in spending, as well as securing the border. And he also can tout the fact that he is a good fundraiser for Republicans, which is a key part of the speakership.

Jim Jordan will focus on those issues, but he has really made a name for himself for Biden, and that's not going to sit well with a lot of them.

And the key is to find the person that can make the case for unity, because there's been an incentive structure in place that the tyranny of the minority trumps common sense consensus building in the House, and we need to get past that and work on who can build consensus in the House caucus.

BERMAN: Alice Stewart, Astead Herndon, thank you very much. Thanks both of you for playing.

BOLDUAN: The week that was.

Coming up for us, did former President Trump spill more state secrets? The latest in the new reporting about what he allegedly told an Australian cardboard tycoon.

And he said he was being arrested for the biggest case in Las Vegas history. Here with the man accused of killing Tupac Shakur told police during that arrest.

We'll be back.

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