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ABC News: Trump Allegedly Talked About Nuclear Subs at Mar-a- Lago; Trump Drops Lawsuit Against Michael Cohen Days Before Deposition; Man Accused of Killing Tupac Apprehended, Shown in New Body Camera Video; U.S. Job Growth Nearly Doubles What Was Expected; Joint Interview for House Speaker Candidates on Monday; Interview with Acting Secretary of Labor Julie Su. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired October 06, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: Donald Trump, nuclear secrets, and a foreign billionaire. This morning, all are at the center of a pretty wild new report. According to ABC News, here's the reporting, months after leaving the White House, Trump allegedly discussed potentially sensitive information about U.S. nuclear submarines with a member of his Mar-a-Lago Club, an Australian Billionaire. That billionaire is Anthony Pratt, and we're told that Pratt was interviewed by federal prosecutors in the documents case against Trump, and that Pratt is now a potential witness for federal prosecutors.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: So, Pratt recounted a bit of that conversation in 2021. At Mar-a-Lago, he told Trump, Australia should start buy its subs from the United States. That is when Trump allegedly leaned in and told him, "The supposed number of nuclear warheads that U.S. subs routinely carry exactly how close they can get to a Russian sub without being detected." Pratt then took that information and went on to tell a lot of people all the stuff that Trump told him.

With us now, CNN Legal Analyst Elliot Williams. So, Counselor, look, the special counsel of investigators have talked to Pratt about this, yet this information did not appear in the indictment. Explain that to us. What might they be interested in but why not part of the criminal charges so far?

[10:35:00]

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, AND FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT GENERAL, DOJ: OK. Certainly. So, in order -- it is a crime, as we know well now, to share or disclose information related to the national defense. It doesn't matter how classified it is, merely that it relates to the national defense with another person.

So, it could be a crime to have -- convey this information. Now, any -- there's any number of reasons why something won't appear in an indictment. Number one, they have some reason not to trust the evidence that they have, perhaps there are some credibility issues with this witness. Number two, they could charge it down the road if they get more witnesses or evidence to back it up. Or number three, they just feel that they are not confident with what they have -- the prosecutors are not confident with what they have, and just simply chosen not to prosecute it.

All -- those kinds of decisions go into cases all of the time, and that might have happened here.

BOLDUAN: Elliot, if he -- he's on the potential witness list, Anthony Pratt.

WILLIAMS: yes.

BOLDUAN: How could -- if it's, you know, how could they use this Australian billionaire, if you will, to prosecute the case if it's not part of the indictment?

WILLIAMS: Right, a couple of things. Number one, it can certainly be relevant at sentencing. If in fact the president is convicted of the crime on the other charges, merely having engaged in similar conduct could be the kind of thing that could come up at sentencing even if not at trial. Number two, again, they maybe eventually thinking about charging this down the road. Number three, he might have other information to provide about conversations he's had with the president.

So, prosecutors tend to be overinclusive, often in their witness list because they have to turn them over to the defense. Anybody you're even thinking about calling as a witness is relevant information. And so, you know, I'm not shocked that they would put someone like this on even if the things he has to say aren't things that they could charge as crimes.

BERMAN: I want to ask you quickly about a lawsuit that Donald Trump dropped. He had been suing his former fixer, Michael Cohen, for some time because he says that Cohen breached his professional obligation and the stuff that he wrote. He was going after Cohen for stuff that he said. And then he dropped it, basically just before he was going to have to give a deposition in this case. Why do you think that is, what does it tell you about what Donald Trump may or may not fear, or what his intentions are general?

WILLIAMS: There is nothing like having to go to court to make someone decide that they don't want to proceed with their case. And I -- you know, we can't get into someone's head, John. I can't divine what they were thinking. But merely an approaching deposition date probably seemed like the kind of image that got him to say that it wasn't worth pursuing.

Number one, any time a witness goes into a deposition, he is creating another record of evidence. And his attorneys in his criminal cases were probably screaming to the high heavens that the moment you open up your mouth in another case, you could put -- open yourself up to far more trouble. And so, I just think it's the fact that it was going to happen rather than sticking it to Michael Cohen that led the president to back out here.

And look, you see this in criminal cases, too, where cases tend to plead out right before trial. Where it's the reality of knowing what consequences you might face that makes people really second-guess how much they want the fight the cases.

BERMAN: And don't sell yourself short, you are a fantastic diviner of things. Elliot Williams, great to have you on. Thank you for explaining it all so clearly.

Kate.

WILLIAMS: Thanks, John.

BOLDUAN: Also new this morning, we are getting some -- a new look at the arrest, now at the center of the murder investigation into Tupac Shakur. Body cam video showing last week's arrest of the man charged now in -- with killing Tupac 27 years ago.

CNN's Josh Campbell joins us now. He's got more on this. Josh, what is seen and heard in this body cam video?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is interesting. You know, the suspect, Duane Davis was apparently just out for a walk when these undercover police cars with Vegas P.D., they roll up on him, they take him into custody. You could see there without incident.

Now, these were the undercover cars. They eventually take him into the back of a marked squad car. Take a look at this video. You can hear in the voice -- so, this is from the officer's body camera that even the officer seemed somewhat surprised about who is in the back seat.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, what they got you for, man?

DUANE DAVIS, CHARGED WITH THE MURDER OF RAPPER TUPAC SHAKUR: Oh, man. The biggest case in Las Vegas history.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes?

DAVIS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quite recent?

DAVIS: No. September 7, 1996.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, no -- wow. That's a long time away.

DAVIS: You know what I'm talking about?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Huh?

DAVIS: You know what I'm talking about? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Not detected quite yet, but yes.

DAVIS: I ain't worried about it. I didn't do --, so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I mean, that's what court is for, right?

DAVIS: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: Now, he was indeed in court earlier this week for his first arraignment that's since been postpones. I spoke to his personal attorney who said that they were trying to get him local representation there in Nevada.

[10:40:00]

But this is interesting because the question had remained, what took so long and why is the arrest happening now? Our colleague Sara Sidner spoke exclusively with Tupac's stepbrother who said, look, what happened? This guy has been out there talking publicly about this case. But it's important to note the district attorney told CNN that they didn't want to go just on this defendant's admissions alone. They wanted to gather additional evidence. Interestingly, Kate, they say that in last couple of years, additional witnesses came forward. So, we'll have to see what type of evidence they actually present during this trial.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Good to see you, Josh. Thank you.

CAMPBELL: You bet. You too.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: Sara Sidner, we know her.

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

BERMAN: A huge jobs number just announced, shocking the economist. So, why is the economy adding so many jobs, and why don't consumers seem happier about it?

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[10:45:00]

BOLDUAN: Moderate House Republicans venting their frustration this morning and now pushing back against a planned televised debate, really, amongst the candidates that now want to become the next speaker of the house. Debates like this, in case you are wondering, they don't happen, especially televised. The event is to be moderated by Fox's Bret Baier. It's supposed to happen on Monday. What is this going to look like especially with it happening ahead of the first gathering of Republicans in the House to talk about this?

CNN's Oliver Darcy joining me. Oliver, what is this going to look like?

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Yes, this is really extraordinary. I can't remember -- maybe our colleague Manu Raju can tell us but I can't remember any time in history where this has happened where there has been a televised debate for the speakership.

Now, Fox News which just put out a release says, it's not a debate. They're calling it a joint interview. But nonetheless, it's still remarkable that these three candidates for speak, Jim Jordan, Steve Scalise, and Kevin Hern are going to appear with Bret Baier ahead of their meeting on Monday and do this joint interview of sorts to talk about the speakership.

You know -- and I think, Kate, this just again highlights, you know, I sound like a broken record sometimes, but this just highlights the closeness of Fox News, this right-wing channel with the GOP, you know. There's a reason that they're going to Fox News for this joint interview. And that's because it effectively is an arm of the Republican Party. Now, Bret Baier, of course, is a little different than the people like Sean Hannity who have actually made endorsements already in the speaker race, but nonetheless, they are close. They are symbiotic. And so, that's why you're seeing this. It's just really remarkable.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And the fact that it's remarkable that it's unremarkable that a host on a news network, like Sean Hannity, is even making endorsements, that that's unremarkable is the statement in on of itself just worth noting. It's good to see you, Oliver. Let's see what's happening -- what happens with this because from the word coming out, I mean, Carlos Jimenez, as John pointed out, is telling CNN that he thinks it's a horrible idea. Not productive. And if they take part, they don't have the pulse of the conference. Let's see what happens. It's good to see you.

John.

BERMAN: All right. Inhuman and deliberate. Ukrainian attack President Volodymyr Zelenskyy condemns one of Russia's deadliest attacks against civilians since the invasion began.

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[10:50:00]

BERMAN: So, this morning we learned that the U.S. added 336,000 jobs last month, that is nearly double what economists expected to see. It is a big number.

With us now is Acting Labor Secretary Julie Su. Madam Secretary, thank you so much for being with us. Why do economists keep getting this so wrong? It was such a big miss. What is it that you think they saw that didn't happen?

JULIE SU, ACTING SECRETARY OF LABOR: So, so many things about our economy have really been defying the expectations. This is a sign of the continued strength of our economy, of the -- not just the recovery from the pandemic but strong and stable growth. And it's what we want to see. More jobs. People wanting jobs and getting them. And that is part of the record low unemployment rate still, it's under four percent for over a year and a half, the longest stretch since the 1960s.

BERMAN: And again, 336,000 jobs is a lot, by any definition, and generally speaking people want to see more jobs added. How then do you try to explain to people this perverse structure -- incentive structure in the economy, if you will, where there is concern that it's too -- the jobs market is too hot.

SU: Yes.

BERMAN: That too many people are being hired and this will mean that interest rates are only going to go up?

SU: So, a couple of things about that. One is that, job growth is a good thing. It means there are more opportunities for people. People to, you know, make a good living wage. Find a pathway to the middle- class, afford a home, share in their part of the American dream. It's also though, if we look at the trends, we are seeing stable and steady growth, a move from that really hot recovery that we saw last year. So, the three-month trend is 266,000 jobs, that's the average that has been created. It was over 400,000 at this time last year.

So, all -- overall, by all markers, this is a really good sign that the economic policies that we have in place are working, and that the American people are getting some breathing room.

BERMAN: You have no concerns that it's too hot? This is more than what, I think it was last year when President Biden was talking to "The Wall Street Journal," you know, the number that had been discussed, 180,000, 190,000 is kind of a slow and steady. I mean, this is a lot more than that.

SU: We try not to make too much out of any one month's numbers, that's why we look at trends. If you look the overall trend, certainly since President Biden came into office, right, 13.9 million jobs created, record low unemployment rate, we still have more work to do on inflation, but also some growth in wages, especially among the lowest paid workers.

[10:55:00]

This is what it means to have an economy that's built from the middle out and bottom up. Strong jobs, strong wages, and participation throughout the economy where no one gets left behind. We're not worried about this because this is exactly what we'd want to see.

BERMAN: We're seeing a lot of job -- high-profile job action over the last several of months between the writers' guild strike which is -- it's now over. We have the Screen Actors Guild and AFTRA, you know, and United Auto Workers, Kaiser for a bit. I'm wondering if you, as acting labor secretary, thinks it is a good thing that we are seeing so many strikes? SU: So, workers have a more power in the economy, right? A tight labor market that allows workers to make different choices. To leave jobs that don't provide them the security and the income that they want for better jobs. Unions having more power at the bargaining table to demand higher wages, more jobs security, safety and health conditions, retirement benefits. All of those are good things. They're very much part of what the president says, how do we build a worker- centered economy where workers do well?

Strikes are one part of that. It's one way that workers exercise their power. We also have seen lots of cases, lots of tables where parties bargain that don't go to strikes. And over the long run, we see that these sorts of things are better for working people. And they are strong. It's how we built a strong middle-class throughout this country's history.

BERMAN: Acting Labor Secretary Julie Su, great to have you on this morning. Thank you so much.

SU: Thank you very much.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, more than 7 million Venezuelans have left their country to head towards the United States. Now, President Biden is shifting his policy and beginning to deport them right back to Venezuela. We've got new details for you next.

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