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Rep. Gregory Meeks (D-NY), Is Interviewed About Scalise, Jordan Campaign For Speaker After McCarthy Ouster; ABC News: Trump Allegedly Talked About Nuclear Subs At Mar-a-Lago; Officials: 52 Killed In Hroza After Russian Strike. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired October 06, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:01:33]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: A booming jobs report, more jobs is a good thing, but this time it could cost you. President Biden set to speak this hour. We'll bring that to you live.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So here is a quote for you, people are pissed. Those people, Moderate House Republicans who don't want to see a televised debate between the leading speaker candidates. So where things stand this morning after Trump made an endorsement?

BOLDUAN: And Trump, the nuclear secrets and the Australian billionaire. The new reporting of how the former president allegedly exposed U.S. nuclear submarine capabilities to a cardboard tycoon.

Sara is off. I'm Kate Bolduan stuck with John Berman. This is CNN News Central.

Insanity and a circus, yes, that is how you can describe this show. That is also how some Moderate Republican lawmakers are describing plans for a televised debate of sorts between the leading candidates to become the next House Speaker. Jim Jordan, Steve Scalise, Kevin Hern, you see them right there. They're all expected to participate.

While that is swirling around the chaos of this past week in the House Republican Conference, a new endorsement has come in the race overnight. Donald Trump putting his full support behind Jim Jordan. CNN's Lauren Fox back on Capitol Hill for us. She's joining us now. Lauren, how is Jim Jordan reacting to this endorsement that came in overnight?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, as you can expect, he's grateful for the former president's endorsement. Obviously, there's still a question about whether or not this really helps him in the race, given the fact that he already had large sloths of the conservative bloc in the Republican Party and many members of the House Freedom Caucus behind him.

Those are the same members who might look to Donald Trump as a potential arbiter of who should be the next speaker. I do want to get to some new breaking news we have from our colleague, Melanie Zanona, that Jim Jordan is reacting to some of that backlash from the "Fox News" debate, saying that he first wants to talk to his Republican colleagues before he sits down for that forum. So that now puts into question the timing of that interview with Bret Baier.

There's also, of course, questions on whether or not this could have an impact on his ability to win over some of the moderates, some of those members who were close allies of Kevin McCarthy. But our colleague Manu Raju caught up with Jim Jordan earlier today about the Trump endorsement. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): I appreciate the president's endorsement. He's the leader of the party. He's going to be our presidential nominee, and I think he's going to be our next president. So I appreciate that. But we're focused also on, you know, the key thing is our colleagues and I'm talking with, you know, we got from Freedom Caucus to people in the middle to committee chairs to Jeff Van Drew, who was Democrat four years ago. We got all kinds of cross the board support, and we're just going to keep working.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And the timeline of how all of this is going to play out next week, including whether or not any of these candidates in the race, either Jim Jordan or Steve Scalise will be able to lock down the 200 vote -- 218 votes they'll need. That question still remains. I talked to Patrick McHenry, the interim speaker just a few minutes ago as he went back into his office and asked him whether or not he was confident they'd be able to get there by next week. He said that they will have a schedule update later today, didn't obviously make any assurances that this will all be tidied up and dealt with by the end of next week. Kate?

[11:05:12]

BOLDUAN: Yes. Because there is no way he can guarantee that at this moment. It's good to see you Lauren, great reporting as always. John?

BERMAN: All right with us now is Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks. He's a ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressman, thank you for being with us. You have said this is a Republican civil war and they need to clean this up themselves.

However, it does affect you. You are the ranking member of Foreign Affairs. Just in the last day, we've seen this horrifying Russian attack on the Ukrainian town of Hroza. More than 50 people killed, an attack on a grocery store, civilians here. And one of the leading candidates for House Speaker Jim Jordan says he does not want to pass a new aid package for Ukraine. What are your feelings about that?

REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D-NY): Devastated. Look, it's on the wrong side of history. Most of us have read history, and some of it took place in the 1930s. There was individuals then who were hesitant in wanting to intrude into the World War II, where you had Adolf Hitler. And millions of people died as a result. We've got to keep our commitment that we've made to our allies and to President Zelenskyy and the Ukrainian people.

And guess what? It's really an investment for us because we don't have to have feet on the ground. So I would hope that, you know, and I believe solidly that the overwhelming majority of individuals in Congress will vote to keep funding Ukraine. So and I hope that the moderate Republicans do what they need to do to stand up and make sure that we get a bell on the floor so that we can make sure that we continue to fight and fund and help Ukrainians who have put up a gallop fight and are winning the fight.

BERMAN: And again, as you look toward the future, who you might have to work with on the other side of the aisle. House Judiciary Chair Jim Jordan, he is one of the leading candidates. People may forget back a couple of years ago when we're dealing with the insurrection on January 6th, there were questions about conversations that he may have had with Donald Trump that day. I want to play some sound of an interview where Jordan seems to dodge direct answers to that question. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Did you talk to the former President that day?

JORDAN: I've talked to the former President, umpteen times thousands. I mean, I may not thousands but countless, countless times. I talked to the President. I never talk about what we talk about, but I just don't think that's appropriate. Just like I don't talk about what happens in Republican conferences. So I've talked to the President numerous times. I continue to talk to the President.

BAIER: No, no, I mean on January 6th, Congressman?

JORDAN: Yes, I mean I've talked to the President so many I can't remember all the days I've talked to him, but I've certainly talked to the President.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, Congressman, is that someone that you feel you could work with if he becomes speaker?

MEEKS: Look, it's clear that the extreme MAGA Republicans are in charge and have been in charge. And the Republicans have been completely incompetent to govern from day one, from the first day when they had to vote 15 times for McCarthy, from the day that they collectively decided that they would allow one vote to call up the speakership. It is them who are responsible and dysfunctional, and they continue to be dysfunctional, and it hurts the American people.

And so it is clear from what we are finding out now and listening to now, that this party of Donald Trump and that Donald Trump and Bannon was behind everything in regards to the removal the Republicans' decision to remove their own speaker, that's who did this. So they're dysfunctional. I'm concerned about them continuing no matter who the speaker is, to be quite frank, in that regards, if they continue to do the same thing that McCarthy did time after time, cater to the MAGA Republican extremists and there's a lot on the line here.

BERMAN: What concerns do you have that in two or three weeks or two or three months, you might wake up and think that maybe you miss having Kevin McCarthy as speaker?

MEEKS: Look, again, as I said, this is the Republicans doing. It is their civil war. I did not enjoy Kevin McCarthy when he was speaker because we could not trust him. And I think that's why what Democrats have said throughout he had reneged on several things throughout his speakership and thereby proven distrustworthy. And I would not want my hands to say that or anyone to have the ability to say that I saved Kevin McCarthy. And Kevin McCarthy continued to yield to the extreme MAGA Republicans, as he's done throughout.

[11:10:16]

BERMAN: I want to end where we began here on the issue of Ukraine. In your heart of hearts, how convinced are you that this Congress, with the leadership that will be coming in, will grant new aid to Ukraine?

MEEKS: I think that and I know and I've talked to a number of my Republican colleagues, particularly that's on national security committees, they understand the significance and the importance of getting this aid to Ukraine. And I would hope on both sides of the aisle, that we talk to our respective individuals, our colleagues, to explain to them the reality of what's on the ground in Ukraine.

The realities of what happens if we do not continue to support Ukraine. The realities of the fact that already, in my opinion, Vladimir Putin has committed war crimes as you saw the devastation that took place yesterday. And there would be nothing to stop him from not only continuing the assault in Ukraine, but also to move in on some of our NATO allies. It is in our best interest as a country to support Ukraine, its troops, give them the artillery that it needs so that they can continue to win.

Look, Ukrainians have already gained the ground back that Vladimir Putin had taken previously. And all of the gains that are being made now, even though they may be slow, are being made by the Ukrainians. They will win this war. That's why Putin is going to North Korea and the Iranians to try to get ammunition, because it is them that is wary and losing out with reference to their ammunitions. We need to stick to it. We will win. Ukrainians will win.

BERMAN: Congressman Gregory Meeks from New York. We appreciate you being with us. Thank you. Kate?

BOLDUAN: So did Donald Trump share nuclear secrets with a man who made his billions off cardboard and shipping? Let me read to you this new reporting, first from "ABC News." Months after leaving the White House, Trump allegedly discussed potentially sensitive information about U.S. nuclear submarines with a member of his Mar-a-Lago club, an Australian billionaire. That billionaire is Anthony Pratt. He was interviewed, we've now learned, by federal prosecutors, and he's listed as a potential witness for them in the classified documents case that they're building against Donald Trump. According to Pratt's accounting of what happened here, back in 2021 at Mar-a-Lago, he told Donald Trump that Australia should start buying its submarines from the United States. And that is when Trump allegedly leaned in and told him these two critical facts the supposed number of nuclear warheads that U.S. subs routinely carry, and exactly how close they supposedly can get to Russian submarines without being detected.

In e-mails and conversations after that encounter, Pratt then relayed the information to a lot of people, six journalists, 11 employees, 10 Australian officials, and three former Australian prime ministers.

Joining me now, former Deputy Assistant Attorney General Tom Dupree and CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst and former Deputy Director of the FBI, Andrew McCabe. Thanks guys for being here. Andy, what's your take on this? Because if these are the two options, this is serious or this is short of that and just another round of Donald Trump not respecting protocol, where do you think this lands?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean, I think both of those can be true. First, it is absolutely serious. This is the most, arguably the most serious information our government holds. And as evidence of that, I would point out the fact that the vast majority of classified information is classified by executive order, right? That's the President decides what's classified. He can then decide what's not classified. But not with nuclear defense information, that is classified by statute. Even the President can't declassify it. It's that serious, right?

However, despite the seriousness of it, we have yet another example of Donald Trump treating our nation's most important secrets with disregard, irresponsibly, and in a way that could arguably be criminal, although he's not charged with this episode yet.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And Tom, what's your take on this? Why do you think this is not part of the indictment that the special counsel has put forth?

TOM DUPREE, FORMER PRINCIPAL DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes, and that's one of the intriguing aspects of this. Obviously, Jack Smith and his team are well aware of Mr. Pratt and well aware of these conversations. And yet, to your point, it hasn't yet been built into the indictment. My best guess, there is a few things. One possibility is that Jack Smith views this alleged violation as perhaps less serious than the other Mar-a-Lago classified document related violations.

[11:15:12]

Another possibility is that he doesn't want to delay things beyond the extent to which they've already been delayed in prosecuting the Mar-a- Lago case. And if he tried to build this episode into his indictment, it's possible that would prompt the judge to say, well, we're going to need to get more discovery on this. There are a lot more witnesses to be interviewed. And that could just slow the whole process down.

So Smith may have said, I'm going to focus on my strongest charges, the retention of the boxes and that sort of thing, and just let this one go.

BOLDUAN: That's interesting, because, Andy, you think that this might not be the end of this story.

MCCABE: Well, it's possible that -- well, let me change that. I think it's absolutely not the end of the story. I agree with Tom that it's unlikely that this will be charged for all the reasons he mentioned, particularly about delay.

However, I think we'll hear this story again during the trial or after the trial if the former president is convicted. You could still get this episode admitted as evidence of the former president's repeated conduct, irresponsible handling of information. There's all kinds of ways that a crafty prosecutor could get this in front of the jury. It could also, excuse me, be relevant in sentencing. If the former president's convicted, you could put this in front of the judge as evidence of related conduct. So we have not heard the last of this one, I'm afraid.

BOLDUAN: And, Tom, what kind of witness could Anthony Pratt be for the prosecution here in this -- in a trial?

DUPREE: Well, he could be a very important witness because by all accounts, he had private conversations with Donald Trump. I thought one of the interesting aspects of ABC's reporting is that when former President Trump allegedly communicated this information, he leaned forward in order to speak discreetly on the patio at Mar-a-Lago about this. So I think Mr. Pratt, if he were called to testify, I think could give a jury a lot of information, both about the substance of the information that was communicated by the former president as well as the context and arguably the purpose for which the former president made the decision to share this information.

BOLDUAN: It's good to see you, Tom. Thanks, Andy. It's great to see you, as always. Thank you guys. John?

BERMAN: Demonstrably brutal, Ukraine blasting Russia's missile attacks against civilian targets, which the Kremlin continues to deny.

Nearly twice as many jobs added as expected. What is driving the jobs growth? And how will you feel it in your wallet?

And President Biden clarifying his stance on the border wall. Why he says he is still against it despite planning an expansion?

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[11:22:29]

BERMAN: This morning, a new round of deadly Russian attacks in northern Ukraine. A 10-year-old and his grandmother were killed. Dozens more injured, including an 11-month-old baby. This follows a drone attack overnight, setting trucks on fire on the Danube. And Ukrainians are still assessing the damage after 50 people were killed in a strike on the small village of Hroza. One in every six residents there is dead. Dozens were at a cafe. They were mourning a local soldier when the building was completely destroyed, so much anguish there.

CNN's senior international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen is live for us in Hroza. Fred, why don't you tell us what you're seeing?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, John. You're absolutely right. They are still assessing the damage. The damage, of course, is humongous here. I want to get out of your way. And you can see this is the building that was hit by that strike. We were, of course, already reporting about it yesterday. But what happened here in the meantime was that this area last night was, of course, full of debris. There were a lot of dead bodies that were laying around here as well. That's all been cleared since then.

But unfortunately, the teams that were working here, they very quickly came to the conclusion that there were no more survivors that could have been found here inside this building. It was hit by a very heavy missile. So this very quickly turned to a recovery operation and then a clearing operation. In fact, we have sort of nightfall coming in right now, but I think we pan over there. You can see that is pretty much what is left of the structure of that building.

You can see up on top of that, there is a sort of box that seems to be for ice cream in there because, of course, this was a restaurant and also a cafe here where there was a funeral wake going on when that missile hit. One of the interesting things that we've learned, John, is that the missile that was used in this strike here appears to be the same type of missile that was then used in that attack you were just talking about on the city of Kharkiv, both of them Iskander missiles, very heavy missiles with a heavy warhead, obviously normally used on the battlefield against armored formations.

And if you use them on a building like this, you get the kind of results that you see here. Folks that we've been speaking to here in the town tell us that pretty much every family here in this small village has lost someone in this attack. You were mentioning about every six resident was killed in this attack. We believe that the ratio is actually even worse than that because a lot of people had left when the war started. About 150 people may have still been here. So about every third resident actually killed in this attack, John.

BERMAN: And you can just see that this building obliterated. And the point you were making, Fred, I hope it sinks into people. They're using this powerful weaponry to basically blow up obliterate a small grocery store and such deadly consequences. Frederick Pleitgen in Hroza, Fred, you and your team please stay safe. Kate?

[11:25:17]

BOLDUAN: We have this just coming into CNN. Hunter Biden is making new moves now going to ask a judge to throw out his federal indictment on the felony gun charges we've been talking about then. That he just pleaded not guilty to. This is all coming out in a new court filing overnight. His attorneys trying to argue that the Special Counsel's hands are tied here, that Hunter essentially can't be charged now. CNN's Sara Murray, she's following this, she's got more detail on this. Sara, what's going on here? SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, as you said, Hunter Biden says he's going to ask the court to throw out this federal indictment that brings these felony gun charges against him. Remember in that plea deal that went so badly wrong, a part of this was a diversion agreement where Special Counsel David Weiss said he would drop a gun charge against Hunter Biden as long as Hunter Biden stayed out of legal trouble and was able to pass drug tests.

But of course, we know that plea deal fell apart and that's why we're where we are now. But what Hunter Biden's legal team is saying is they're saying parts of that deal still apply. Hunter Biden has immunity under that deal. Special Counsel David Weiss has to abide by that. And these felony gun charges should have never been brought against Hunter Biden. Now this is a different view than what Special Counsel David Weiss has.

Of course, he says this agreement was never approved by a judge, therefore it's unenforceable. And he, of course, moved ahead in bringing these felony gun charges. So I think this is just sort of a preview of the kind of legal wrangling we're going to see around this case as Hunter Biden's team very much wants to make these charges go away, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And it does seem that, you know, that this argument has been made by Hunter Biden's legal team kind of since jump when these charges came and it hasn't stuck yet. But let's see what happens with this latest move. It's great to see Sara. Thank you.

MURRAY: Good to see you Kate.

BOLDUAN: John?

BERMAN: All right, 336,000 new jobs added last month, twice the number expected. Why have economists been so wrong and how much might this help you?

And the largest health care strike in history. We've got new reporting on that ahead.

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