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Huge, Near Continuous Explosions Inside Gaza; CNN Speaks To Sister Of Hostage; Sources: Qatar Mediating With Hamas Over Hostages. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired October 09, 2023 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

GEORGE MASON, PASTOR, WILSHIRE BAPTIST CHURCH (voiceover): Their well- being. And so, being here and being a compassionate presence was something we saw as a gift that we did not intend. But -- so we're somewhat conflicted about leaving now. But that's our plan.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Understood. An unprecedented attack on Israeli civilians, including in their homes. Pastor George Mason, thank you for being with us. Be safe. Good luck getting home. Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: An unprecedented attack. Hundreds killed, including, we now know from the State Department, nine Americans are amongst those killed in these terror attacks. Joining us now is Jonathan Greenblatt, the CEO and national director for the Anti- Defamation League. Jonathan, thank you so much for coming in.

JONATHAN GREENBLATT, CEO & NATIONAL DIRECTOR: Thank you for having me.

BOLDUAN: Nine Americans were killed, and an untold number of Americans still missing. Among the stories that are coming out, the mothers pleading for any information about their children.

GREENBLATT: Yes.

BOLDUAN: A grandpa -- a father saying that he was on the phone with his daughter when she was shot. His grandchild was underneath her as they spent hours trying to get him to safety. It's three days in.

But how do you -- what -- where is your head? Where's your heart? How do you -- you can't make sense of it. But how do you make sense of it right now?

GREENBLATT: My heart is broken. The stories that are just beginning to come out fill me with the kind of anguish I've just never known before. And so, it starts by framing this correctly.

I mean, it says on the -- in the graphics -- you know, it says Hamas attacks. These weren't attacks. These were slaughtered. Gunning down teenagers -- unarmed teenagers as they ran away by people who were dressed up as medics when they came to them, they thought they were getting help, that's slaughter. Walking house to house breaking in -- again, I'm going to try to keep it together. Shooting children in front of their parents. BOLDUAN: The video I've seen of a mother with a 3-year-old and a 9- month-old being taken hostage.

GREENBLATT: That -- this was a massacre. This was a war. But it's not a war that Israel started. And it is -- it is beyond frustrating to me to see the airwaves filled with people trying to create some kind of equivalence here, Kate, and I've heard on networks, this network, other networks.

Well, this was an escalation. This was bound to happen. Butchering babies, raping women, and then parading them as they bleed from their crotch around Gaza like trophies, there is no world, there is no universe, and there is no faith where that is acceptable. And so, my heart breaks for any civilians who are killed. It is -- it is horrible that innocent Palestinians will lose their lives.

But I am in mourning today. And the world should be mourning for the grandmother who was burned alive in her home by these Hamas. And please, I beg of you, I beg of John and Sara and every anchor on this network, do not call them fighters, do not glorify them as militants, call them what they are, murderers, terrorists, and barbarians.

BOLDUAN: Well --

GREENBLATT: And I just mean, like if you've seen -- and don't take my word for it, please I beg of you.

BOLDUAN: No, I'm -- and we have.

GREENBLATT: Show the videos.

BOLDUAN: We --

GREENBLATT: I know. And you guys are doing a good job.

BOLDUAN: We --

GREENBLATT: But you just -- every time we got to put this into context for the world to understand, you are not a fighter if you kidnap babies.

BOLDUAN: This is -- well, and that -- their having -- and even this is not normal.

GREENBLATT: This is not.

BOLDUAN: This is not the tit-for-tat.

GREENBLATT: It is not.

BOLDUAN: This is something completely different.

GREENBLATT: Yes. And so, like when we see these --

BOLDUAN: This was -- I mean, just take the one example of the music festival. GREENBLATT: The music festival.

BOLDUAN: This was a massacre of people. Nic Robertson was -- is on the ground there in Re'im and said that he went -- walked into a shelter. You know, one of the shelters we know.

GREENBLATT: Yes.

BOLDUAN: The bomb shelters that we know, and he said that it is not something that he would even want the cameras to go in to see because he knows that's a place of safety. And it is not a place of safety. There is no place for safety. We're showing some of the videos here.

GREENBLATT: Thank you for showing these videos. Let them be seared onto the conscience of the world. Because these are the images we need to remember. Again, children and teenagers, boys and girls shot at point-blank range. Women raped in front of their boyfriends and then killed. The stories that I'm hearing from family and friends like it's as if it were a horror movie, but it's real-life -- real life.

[11:35:01]

BOLDUAN: So, two things and it's hard to have. One is the -- what has already happened and the immediate, there are hostages, maybe more than a hundred being held by Hamas terrorists right now. This is that horrific image from the music festival.

GREENBLATT: I can't look at it.

BOLDUAN: (INAUDIBLE) is there. There's the immediate of what needs to be done now.

GREENBLATT: Right.

BOLDUAN: What will be done now? We're seeing the bombardment and airstrikes from the IDF into Gaza as we speak throughout the show.

GREENBLATT: Yes.

BOLDUAN: And then there has to be a question and maybe it is impossible to answer. But what comes after?

GREENBLATT: No, it's a good question. And so, the answer, like what comes after we start with how we got here. And there's been a lot of questions raised in all the coverage about the intelligence failure and the military failure.

But, Kate, if I'm honest with myself and all of us, this was a moral failure. Not on the part of Israelis. On our part. Those in the West who thought dehumanizing Israelis or Zionists was just part of the culture, and that its resistance to say things like Zionism is genocide.

Because if you think the Israelis are committing genocide, and they are not, then it's OK to objectify and literally steal their children and butcher their grandparents. And I say all this for the following reason. This is not just about defeating Hamas. This needs to be about eradicating an ideology that dehumanizes --

BOLDUAN: Well, that allowed -- that allowed --

GREENBLATT: Again, the disabled and -- (INAUDIBLE)

BOLDUAN: That allows Hamas.

GREENBLATT: That allows this. So, there are millions of people in Gaza, hundreds of thousands, I am sure who hate Hamas for its tyrannical, oppressive regime. But in all honesty, Israel and the world have no choice.

It is time to draw a line in the sand like we did with ISIS like we did with al-Qaeda, like this is not acceptable and is -- I mean, this is the one thing I would say. This is not a retaliation. They declared war on Israel by murdering its children in cold blood, leaving Israel no choice but to defend itself. That's where we are. And look. At the ADL, we fight anti-Semitism.

BOLDUAN: I mean, that's what I was going to ask what this means for --

GREENBLATT: Yes.

BOLDUAN: What -- it is your -- what is your life's work and your organization's work of trying to call out, tamp out hate and extremism, especially online? And I can only imagine what it looks like right now.

GREENBLATT: The police presence in front of preschools is what it looks like now. Squad cars in front of synagogues. That's what's happening because after you know sparks in the Middle East, they light fires here in America and in Europe.

I've talked to people all over the country over the weekend. Again, many are looking for missing family members, for kidnapped relatives, or those who are just who dead. And yet they're also scared because we know -- I mean, think about this. We've been -- we've done this together so many times. Anti-Semitic incidents were already at a high point.

BOLDUAN: That's what I'm saying.

GREENBLATT: The Jewish community has become so you know, on alert looking at historic acts of you know numbers of acts of vandalism and violence against our community. And now this? We're all very concerned.

But I will say one last thing. We are concerned and alarmed, but we are resolved and resolute. These animals, people who murder grandchildren, who shoot teenagers in the legs so they can't run away. They are animals. And we in the Jewish community, we will not be intimidated or daunted by this disgusting behavior.

BOLDUAN: There has to be a bright line between terrorism and anything else.

GREENBLATT: In anything else.

BOLDUAN: Thank you, Jonathan. Thank you for coming in.

GREENBLATT: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you. John.

BERMAN: All right. Let's get right to CNN Chief International Anchor Christiane Amanpour. Christiane, I understand you just spoke --

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Yes.

BERMAN: -- to the sister of someone who is currently being held hostage. What did she tell you?

AMANPOUR: Well, it's a -- it's a horrifying and very dramatic story. Her name is Alexandra Aryaf (PH). That's who I spoke to. Her sister Karina is 19 years old. And they discovered some 24 hours later, the mom discovered by looking at Telegram that had been posted by the Hamas terrorists about this.

And in the -- you can -- you can see three girls. We've blanked out some of the faces. You may not be able to see it now. But one of the girls with a bloodied face is Karina Aryaf (PH). She is the sister of the girl I talked to.

And she says that, you know she was a non -- a non-military soldier -- an intelligence soldier apparently in an all-female base near the Gaza strip near the Erez crossing. And these terrorists came in on Saturday, she said. And on -- at about 7:30 in the morning, local time, Karina called the family essentially to say goodbye.

[11:40:02]

And then the last thing they have seen is this video. And it's very, very disturbing. They don't know what has happened to her. They were told only by the Israeli military like IDF some 24 hours later.

And when I asked her does she knew whether anybody is trying to negotiate at least for the hostages. She said you're not going to like what I'm telling you. But no, basically.

It's really awful what I'm going to say but nothing is happening. They didn't tell us anything. There are no negotiations currently going on or at least none that we are aware of.

So. they're appealing for the world to be able to send the International Red Cross humanitarian organizations who might at least be able to get a record of who's been taken. But you just heard Jonathan Greenblatt report some of the terrible stories that are coming out there. And we hear it, and we see it all over social media, and from the victims who we're talking to, the rape of women, the kidnap and murder of old people.

Even Holocaust survivors, we're told. Even elderly people like that. Children who have been attacked, and indeed some children who have been removed from what they thought was the safety of their own homes and taken into Gaza as hostages.

So, this is clearly you know, the worst day as Israel calls it, their 9/11, their Pearl Harbor, the worst single day of atrocities in that -- in that state. And we're hearing from so many of the people on the ground of their firsthand experiences.

BERMAN: Christiane, she said that she has no knowledge whatsoever of negotiations taking place. How much contact is she even getting from the Israeli government? You mentioned one conversation with the IDF 24 hours after. Is that it?

AMANPOUR: Apparently, yes. And this is another aspect of, unfortunately, what's going on. There -- apparently very, very stretched. You've heard the stories -- you've heard the stories of volunteers in Israel, whether they are paramedics, whether they are search organizations, whether they are soldiers who were at home, or commanders who are at home when this happened, getting into their cars and going to that area by the Erez crossing, by the Gaza border to do whatever help they could.

And there is a question as to how stretched -- there are questions amongst Israelis as to why the full weight of the military and other formal institutions haven't been able to get to them in the kind of time that was required. And clearly, you know those -- that information will come out later. But all I'm telling you is that, what they're telling us right now, and what is happening on Israeli social media as well.

BERMAN: And again, that word stretched may be very important and descriptive here. It may indicate and we just don't know, because of a lack of visibility to a certain extent, we just don't know how much control Israel has over any of the parts of the situation.

AMANPOUR: Well, John, you know that they they're telling us certain updates, but obviously not everything. They're telling us I assume what they know when they can tell us. It's not a hundred percent clear yet whether the Israeli IDF -- the defense forces have fully got control of all the territory that was infiltrated, all the bases, all the Kibbutz, all the villages and towns. And certainly, they report they have -- they have -- they have cleansed and cleaned out and got rid of a number and killed a number of the terrorists.

But there might still be some they say who are still inside. And that poses another whole set of danger because if they are even individuals hiding if they have weapons with them, you know, that's a whole another explosion waiting to happen when people are least expecting it. So, there's so much also that we don't know.

At the same time, the Israeli Defense Minister has announced that the whole of Gaza is under you know extreme and complete closure and lockdown, they say. And they are stopping you know electricity, food, food, fuel water, as presumably they prepare for some kind of bigger operation, perhaps a ground operation to go in and do what the Prime Minister said they're going to do, which is defeat Hamas and win. But it will take a long time according to the prime minister himself. BERMAN: And, Christiane, while we still have you -- and again, we're looking at live pictures from inside Gaza where there has been continuous bombardment over the last many, many hours there of more than a hundred targets -- Hamas targets, Israel says. We are also getting word of some activity over Lebanon with the IDF saying that helicopters have been engaged in targeted strikes on those they say that had actually infiltrated over the border from Lebanon.

AMANPOUR: Yes.

BERMAN: Talk about how dangerous for Israel, the potential threat from the north is, particularly Hezbollah.

[11:45:06]

AMANPOUR: Well, clearly, this is what's being watched very, very closely. Hezbollah already sent artillery strikes into Israel. Israel responded. They're not as huge as Israel experienced in previous years and in the war that I covered in 2006, which was a full-on war by Hezbollah into Israel and counterattacks. It went on for a couple of weeks.

But this apparently, they're still seeing whether it's a full-scale breach or infiltration, whether they're just probing, whether it's just to stand up and be counted and what Hezbollah and Hamas are talking about you know their mission. But clearly, this is something that everybody is concerned about, not only trying to help all those who've been wounded and identify all the dead but make sure that this does not spiral into a wider regional war.

BERMAN: Israeli civilians living near the Lebanese border have been told to stay inside their homes for now.

AMANPOUR: Yes.

BERMAN: Christiane Amanpour, terrific having you with us. Thank you so much for your work. Keep us posted on what else you hear. Sara?

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: All right. You've been looking at live pictures there from Gaza as the smoke continues to rise after we've been watching airstrike after airstrike. There is horror on the ground. Sirens rallying across Jerusalem. You see these live pictures as is it's happening right now as we speak.

You can see what appears to be rockets being fired from Gaza. But we have also been seeing airstrikes coming from Israel into Gaza. They've been dropping bombs all morning long, saying they were hitting 130- plus targets that are owned and operated by Hamas.

We are also learning more about a meeting at the Pentagon with the Israeli Defense Attache to the United States as the U.S. sends a U.S. carrier to the region. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:51:45] BOLDUAN: There is new reporting coming in. We were looking at from moments ago we're seeing these developments with airstrikes continuing in Gaza. At the same time, we are also learning that Qatar is now -- is now in or has been in talks with Hamas about the hostages that the terror group is holding inside Gaza.

Qatar, it needs to be noted, has strong ties to Hamas, even blamed Israel Saturday morning saying Israel was "solely responsible for what had happened." That was Saturday morning, and we are here now.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is at the White House for us. She's got more on this. What are you learning about these talks? Has the administration been in touch with Qatar?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, U.S. officials here at the White House and the State Department have been engaged with Qatar as they are playing this role of holding the talks with Hamas amid the fact that they're holding several -- multiple hostages since this conflict began. Now, there's officials here at the White House and the State Department including Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who have been in touch with their Qatari counterparts as the talks -- these talks are ongoing. But this issue of the hostages is of deep concern to the White House not just on a larger scale but also when you think about the fact that there are potentially Americans who are being held hostage as well.

The White House and State Department have yet to pinpoint or offer an estimate of how many Americans could be held hostage by Hamas. But the White House is acknowledging that as of this morning, at least nine U.S. citizens had been killed since this conflict began on Saturday. The White House expressing their condolences and the State Department saying that they've been in contact with these families and are offering consular services to them as well.

But this all comes as the president all the way down -- what do you think of, the Defense Department and State Department, they have been in deep contact with their Israeli counterparts since Saturday. The president himself has spoken twice with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to offer unwavering support. He told Netanyahu there would be additional assistance coming to them soon.

This morning, Israel's Defense Attache was actually seen at the Pentagon where sources have told our colleagues that he met with members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. And so, these are all discussions that the White House and officials in the U.S. are having as they're trying to also find out how -- what kind of assistance specifically Israel needs going forward.

BOLDUAN: Arlette Saenz at the White House. Thank you so much, Arlette.

SIDNER: All right. Just noting again, we're looking at live pictures of Gaza and seeing some plumes of smoke. We heard moments ago another airstrike. There have been dozens of them throughout this morning alone. Never mind those that have been going on for the past 48 hours.

Joining me now, Dahlia Scheindlin, political analyst and fellow at the Century Foundation. She has done extensive research and been consulted on issues surrounding the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Thank you so much for being here. I want to start with this.

We have heard from Israel, they are going to do as they call it, a total siege of Gaza. They are already doing the airstrikes all day. And that is the sound of another one happening right now, two, three happening in a row there in Gaza.

[11:55:03]

We understand -- we have seen tanks headed towards the border. Does this mean that Israel is going to have to re-occupy -- is that what this means, ultimately, Gaza?

DAHLIA SCHEINDLIN, POLITICAL ANALYST: I think this is in a way an extreme continuation of the policy that Israel has had in place for many years in relation to Gaza. This is Israel reverting to what happens whenever there are the usual kinds of escalations that have been going on for many years, mainly since 2009. But remember, Gaza has been under a form of closure for a -- yes, closures blockade since about two -- since 2007.

And every time there's around of fighting, Israel bombards, and then sometimes there is a ground incursion. And every time Israeli policymakers raise this dilemma about what to do if Israel wants to completely control Hamas. Are they supposed to reoccupy Gaza? Apparently, no Israeli government truly wants to do that, or they would have done it.

And this is the same dilemma in the absolute extreme because the hardliners in government and in the public, of course, are calling for you know complete devastation of Gaza. The defense minister has already said it will be completely shut down, no water, no food, no fuel, no electricity. There has been already an 80 percent electricity cut. Those are the policies that have been in place this whole time.

And, frankly, it's an enormous question Israel is going to be having to ask itself, if not a failure of both intelligence and the security policy that this terror attack happened. I mean, this is the biggest -- I don't need to reiterate that this is the biggest terror attack in Israel ever. It is slaughter.

And Israelis -- you know, the Israeli government might be planning for a ground attack. We know for sure. I have doubts that the Israeli government still has any plan to reoccupy Gaza because there's no -- there's no future in which Israel can continue to reoccupy Gaza in any serious way. And so, this is the continuation of the same cycle that we've seen for years.

SIDNER: Before this terrorist hack, because you brought this up, Israel was in a huge political uproar, including reservists saying that they were not going to take part, they were out in the streets, over the breakdown, as they thought of democracy in Israel. In the meantime, you have this attack, how does the attack change things? And do you think that because there has been so much turmoil politically in Israel with several different governments coming up and being brought down, that they may have missed what was about to happen that the intelligence failures may have anything to do with that?

SCHEINDLIN: Yes. I mean, this is certainly an accusation that is being made, or this is something that many citizens feel. And you're absolutely right to spotlight the very you know divisive protests that have been going on all year. What we did see was that there's no -- there's no division over -- of opinion over this the nature of this attack. At the very immediate level, this is a terror attack against Israeli civilians, and therefore everybody, including everybody who has -- people who are at the protests, anybody who was called up no matter what they feel about the government went immediately and everybody -- Israelis who are not serving in the army are all rallying to help with the wounded and the -- and the trauma that -- (AUDIO GAP)

So, in the immediate sense, Israelis are completely united over how to cope with the devastation right now. But already we see the divisions surfacing. You know, part of the public is saying that the -- what we see the government doing is that we need to simply be more hardline, crush Gaza, crush Hamas, never mind the consequences.

And a good portion of Israeli society, we have no way to know how many are saying that this is happening in part because of exactly what you just said, the government has been single-mindedly focused even obsessive about its attempt to undermine the Israeli judiciary over the course of the whole year given that that sparked an enormous social protest against it. The government then became focused on the protests and has been neglecting numerous areas of governance. And you know, many people jumping to the conclusion that they have also been you know, neglecting in a very, very severe way with severe consequences, security, and intelligence. But this probably -- this intelligence failure probably goes beyond to be honest because it is such a colossal failure of intelligence.

SIDNER: Dahlia Scheindlin, thank you so much. Again, you are looking at live pictures we have just seen two if not three airstrikes that have landed there in Gaza from the Israeli military. And we're watching the results of that with all of the smoke. You're also seeing the electricity that has basically gone out in most of the city.

BERMAN: And again, one of the things you were just discussing there as the news, Kate, that we got in a little while ago that the government of Qatar is now involved in some kind of discussions with Hamas over the position of these hostages, well, over a hundred hostages. Arlette Saenz at the White House saying the U.S. was monitoring that situation. Of course, you know, Qatar has a relationship with Hamas, and is a funder of Hamas.

BOLDUAN: Strong ties with Hamas.

BERMAN: And a supporter of Hamas and even supported basically the thrust of this terrorist attack over the weekend. So, we will have to wait and see where those discussions go.

[12:00:06]

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. We're going to continue to watch as you know the sun has set. Now, you can see fires blazing, as what it appears, in Gaza. We saw at the beginning of this show a very tenuous situation still in Israel, with Clarissa Ward and her team having to hit the deck as rockets were being fired over. A very tough day. Another tough day. Our continuing coverage continues now.