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Rep. Steve Scalise Wins GOP Nomination For House Speaker, Full House Vote Expected This Afternoon; Rep. Bryan Steil (R-WI) Discusses Scalise Winning GOP Nomination For Speaker; Rep. Steve Scalise Speaks After Winning GOP Nomination For House Speaker; Rep. Mike Lawler (R- NY) Discusses Scalise Winning GOP Nomination For Speaker & Hamas Attacks on Israel. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 11, 2023 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: I just want to say, there is nothing better than watching Manu --

(LAUGHTER)

GANGEL: -- navigate the hallway.

And to your point, we saw two members in a row, one, it appears, is voting for Scalise, the other one, Massey, said that he's concerned he doesn't have the votes.

There was a comment about that they hope and pray. Hope and pray.

Kevin McCarthy hoped and prayed and he went 15 rounds. I think that -- what's the number here? Four votes.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

GANGEL: They can only afford -- Scalise can only afford to lose four votes. That does not sound like he's there.

BASH: And, Boris, the timing and the votes, they are all very much connected. And it is the first test -- and this is what you were referring to, Jamie -- the first test of leadership for Steve Scalise.

Not only whether he has the votes immediately or whether he will choose to hold the vote.

And I think the official term is jam --

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: -- and jam the rest of his conference. And say, really? You want to do this all over again? OK. Let's see how it goes.

And historically, somebody who is in the cat bird's seat, somebody who will have the gavel eventually, the members of the conference who are not so sure, they decide I don't want to cross him or her. So I'm just going to go along and go with the flow. And that is one of the most fascinating things that I'm going to be

watching in the next few hours as to whether Steve Scalise will step into that power role and how he uses his power.

GANGEL: Power is the key point because the speaker can say you're on this committee, you're not on this committee. Where is your office. There is so much power, it's how they exercise it.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: There's got to be some incentive to offer those members that might be resisting.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Kasie Hunt joining us now.

Kasie, your reflections --

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: -- on the breaking news.

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Right. It sounds like we're going to be sitting here for a few hours --

(LAUGHTER)

HUNT: -- covering all of this breaking news.

To pick up on what Dana and Jamie were saying. Clearly, I don't think Scalise has another option, Dana, than just to take this --

BASH: Push through.

HUNT: -- to basically say, I dare you to vote against me. I dare you to do this thing that so many of you say that you don't want.

Honestly, you know, he has -- Scalise, we don't know the outcome of this private ballot vote, right? But we do know that Matt Gaetz, for example, chief flame thrower, has said he would be fine with Scalise as being speaker.

So my question is, how many of the people who are opposed to Scalise are the ones who are willing to break all the glass? Because that really is what has differentiated these eight from the rest.

Because usually, all of those incentives that you were walking through, they work, right?

SANCHEZ: Yes.

HUNT: A threat to, you know, not to put you on the committee that is going to help your district, that's going to get you reelected, or get you more power or more money or whatever. They stopped working with this group of eight. I'm not convinced that they are going to do the same sort of maneuvers with Steve Scalise. I think that's the test here.

SANCHEZ: Let's stand by for a moment because Manu Raju is back on Capitol Hill with a Republican, who was in the room for that closed door vote -- Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Congressman Bryan Steil, the chairman of the House Administration Committee.

You were just in the room right there. Talk to us about, what was it like in there, given how emotional the last week has been. The tensions have been so palpable within your conference.

How did that play out behind the scenes? And who did you ultimately vote for?

REP. BRYAN STEIL (R-WI): The whole question is with the challenges our country is facing from inflation to a border crisis to our ally Israel being under attack by terrorists and Hamas, it's essential that we unite. That conversation was about how we come together.

Speaker nominee, Steve Scalise, I think will be a spectacular leader. I look forward to voting for him on the floor. Hopefully, that comes sooner rather than later because of the significance of the challenges that we face.

RAJU: Can you say who you voted for?

STEIL: I kept that private through the process but truly because I believe both Jim Jordan or Steve Scalise would have done an excellent job.

Now Speaker-Designee Steve Scalise I think is going to do a great job. I look forward to us calling this vote sooner rather than later.

Every day that goes by, where we don't have a speaker of the House, is to the detriment of not only us as Republicans but really to the country. In particular at a period of time as such historical significance.

So I'm optimistic we will be able to get there today.

RAJU: He got 113 votes, 99 members voted against him. You know the narrowness of this majority -- we all witnessed the 15 ballots in January -- that the same thing could happen again to Steve Scalise.

STEIL: It's not done until it's done. I'm optimistic that we're able to convince all members of our conference that the significance and importance of being united outweighs any individual's personal preference as it relates to the speaker's race.

I believe Steve Scalise will do a spectacular job. That said, we need to make sure that we have a full united group.

[13:35:01] Ultimately, Speaker-Designee Steve Scalise will make the decision when this vote should come before the House. I'm hopeful that it comes sooner rather than later.

But the need to unite, the need to come together at such a significant moment in our history can't be overstated.

RAJU: What do you think of the eight members, the Republicans who voted to oust Speaker McCarthy at this moment, as you've gone beyond Steve Scalise, everything we've seen this past week, what is your message to those eight Republicans?

STEIL: I wildly disagreed with the move last week that called for a motion to vacate. I think it was the wrong move.

In large part, because it's left us without the leadership structure that we need in such a significant moment in time. So I disagree with the approach.

That said, I think now is the moment for us to make sure that we're looking and moving forward and uniting behind a leader it is our opportunity to do that.

RAJU: Do you think Jim Jordan should get behind Steve Scalise? I heard he said in the room he would get behind whoever can get 217 votes. Should Jordan say I'm backing Steve Scalise?

STEIL: I will let everyone speak for themselves.

But what I'm hearing is the need to unite. And I think that is true and consistent across the conference that we need to come together and unite behind one leader.

And as he won the conference vote, Speaker-Designee Steve Scalise is that man for this moment in time. I think he will do a spectacular job.

But the need to unite is what I continue to hear from most of our members.

That said, as we've seen play out, we have some individuals in this conference who don't feel that call. But hopefully, they will feel that by the time we come to the floor.

RAJU: We'll see what happens.

Congressman, thank you for your time. Appreciate it.

STEIL: Thank you.

RAJU: That is the big question, as the Congressman Steil just detailed here, is whether or not some of those members, those holdouts, the eight members who voted to oust Kevin McCarthy, many of them did not vote for Steve Scalise. They voted for Jim Jordan.

Steve Scalise, of course, was McCarthy's top deputy. They didn't always get along. They had a bit of a frosty relationship at times.

But nevertheless, a lot of them did vote for Jim Jordan to be speaker. Will they come along in this key vote where you can only afford to lose four Republican votes?

And of course, how Jim Jordan messages this is important, too. The Congressman suggesting that -- he suggested unity but other members suggested that he would get behind whoever got 217 votes, which Scalise did not get behind closed doors.

So some of those key questions will continue to percolate in the hallways as they move towards a vote as soon as this afternoon.

But again, that decision is up to the speaker nominee, Steve Scalise. If he wants to roll the dice or if he needs more time to cut deals to win over some of those skeptics -- Guys?

SANCHEZ: There's still a lot of questions to answer, Manu.

Kasie, I wanted to ask you something that the Congressman from Wisconsin brought up, something that Dana alluded to previously, and that is the external pressure that is now on Congress.

Because you talked about the incentives that Scalise can offer some of his members but, obviously, there is a lot happening.

And one of the key issues that I think is likely to be first up for whoever is elected speaker, if it is, indeed, Scalise, it will be the top of his list, is aid to Israel.

How does what is happening in the Middle East ultimately move members that may be reluctant to move forward with the speakers race.

HUNT: I think it clarifies the stupidity of the situation in general. The fact that the U.S. government is currently incapable of acting to fulfill the president's request for additional aid because eight Republicans decided they wanted to depose their speaker, right?

When you contrast what is going on with the pictures in Israel and the horrific crimes committed and the need to take action, I think that makes it starkly clear to people. We will see.

I mean, every single time I've predicted that they would -- or thought that perhaps they would get it together and this wasn't actually going to happen, it has happened. Right?

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

HUNT: Right? But, no, no, it hasn't. I think -- look, all bets are clearly off with this Republican conference.

I think all of us who are invested in a functioning government, regardless of what views you may hold about what that government should be doing or how it should be conducting itself, would say, hey, let's move on, we have really big concerns in the world.

Because, Dana, I don't know about you but I remember sitting on TV last week and saying, hypothetically, this would be a really big problem if there is an actual crisis.

And I don't think anybody was sitting there thinking there was going to be a massive crisis. But here we are, the deadliest day for the Jewish people since the Holocaust. The U.S. government unable to do something.

BASH: And the flip side of that is, because of that, the holdouts feel that they have more leverage.

There are two sides. There is the pressure to cave that we were talking about before Manu came on, and then the flip side of that is the leverage.

I mean, I was just texting with one of the eight who voted to oust McCarthy and I said, are you going to support Scalise, and the answer was not yet.

GANGEL: There are a couple of names of people who I'm sort of curious how they will weigh in. Donald Trump. He backed Jordan.

[13:40:01]

HUNT: An embarrassing moment for him.

GANGEL: It didn't work out. And so, you know, what is he going to do at this point?

Kevin McCarthy, Scalise was his number two. They didn't always get along so well.

But -- and does Kevin McCarthy really have any sway right now? Because he was kicked out by the Matt Gaetz Eight.

To Dana's point, I mean, we will have to go through the eight, but there's one that you've been texting with who said not yet.

HUNT: It wasn't a no.

GANGEL: It wasn't a no. But what's the horse trading going to be here? Scalise can go -- Nancy Pelosi --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Jamie, I have to cut you off.

Here is Steve Scalise speaking on Capitol Hill, the newly nominated Republican potentially headed for the speakership of the House.

REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA): First, I want to thank my House Republican colleagues for just designating me as the speaker.

Obviously, we still have work to do. We're going to have to go upstairs on the House floor and resolve this. And then get the House opened again.

We have a lot of work to do. Not just in the House for the people of this country, but we see how dangerous of a world it is and how things can change so quickly.

We need to make sure we're sending a message to people all throughout the world that the House is open and doing the people's business.

Making sure that we're unequivocally standing in our first resolution that we pass under Speaker Steve Scalise will be to make it clear that we stand with Israel, the McCaul/Meeks Resolution will be our first order of business.

But obviously, there's a lot more work to do. The conversations we've been having with my colleagues over the last few days leading up to this show that there is a resolve that we need to get back to work.

There is a lot of business to take care of. Families are struggling across this country. We passed a lot of legislation to help families get back on track, to address our border crisis, to get our economy moving again, to address the spending in Washington that's driving inflation, high energy costs.

All of those bills that we passed and that we're going to continue to pass that are sitting over in the Senate need to be taken up.

We've passed over 70 percent of the bills to fund the government, dealing with appropriations and setting the priorities as this nation's spending, and the Senate has taken up zero. The Senate has to start doing their work.

By the way, in that legislation, including the state foreign ops bill, the defense appropriations bill includes funding for Israel, things like Iron Dome, precision guided missiles, things that could be used today to help them in this war. So there is a lot to do.

I'm also going to be calling on President Biden to sit down and talk about the crisis at the border, as we have an open southern border and we've seen millions come in in the last few years, including people on the terrorist watch list, from all over the world.

If he doesn't know now after what happened, we cannot have an unsecure border. We've got to secure America's border. We've passed legislation to do that. It's time we sit down and have a conversation about how to secure America's border.

And it's not a Republican or a Democrat issue. There are Democrats all over the country who have been calling on the president to do this, too. That's a conversation we need to have today.

There is a lot of busy work to do, a lot of important work to do on behalf of people who are struggling. Not only here in America, but who are concerned all around the world. We're going to provide that vision.

We have a lot of work to do -- (CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: That was Louisiana Congressman Steve Scalise, the newly minted Republican nominee for House speaker.

He went through the priorities for the House. He said we have a lot of work to do. We realize how dangerous of a world it is. He said, quote, "We need to send a message to the world."

Clearly, as we rejoin our panel, putting some pressure on lawmakers by evoking the ongoing conflict in Israel.

HUNT: Right. And appropriately so. Although I will also say that this has been Scalise's message from the get-go in saying that, hey, we need to, you know, get it together, this is what I would do right away.

I think he's making also, I hear, the governing argument, which is an argument that does resonate with a significant -- I mean, just keep in mind most of these people voted for Kevin McCarthy to remain speaker. They don't want this sideshow and Scalise is speaking to that.

GANGEL: This was a campaign speech. I mean, the new add to that would be "stand with Israel." He knows what's going on and what people are looking at.

[13:45:01]

But I still say, behind the scenes, what is the horse trading that is going on with the Matt Gaetz Eight, with the people who voted for Jim Jordan?

And, Dana, you and I were just sending notes to each other and I wrote down the word "health." His health is a problem.

BASH: He has blood cancer. Steve Scalise has blood cancer. Now, this is something that everybody in the Republican conference knew and knows.

And, I mean, I talked, I'm sure each of you has talked to a Republican going into these discussions about who should be the next speaker and Steve Scalise's health has been something that is obviously concerning, but not concerning enough for the majority of the House Republican conference.

The question is whether that's going to play in at all when you get to the goal and the necessity of 217 votes on the House floor.

SANCHEZ: Let's pause for a moment and go back to Manu Raju on Capitol Hill.

Because, Manu, as you've been playing defense trying to watch members leaving the meeting, one person has not spoken out, and that is Jim Jordan, who lost in the nomination process to Scalise.

What are you hearing about his perspective following this historic vote?

RAJU: Yes, I mean, typically, in these contested leadership races, you oftentimes see these members who have been running against each other come out together, show a sign of support, show a sign of unity.

Try to move on past what can be kind of a bitter personal affair, these behind-the-scenes private leadership contests. We did not see that right here.

Jim Jordan was not flanked next to Steve Scalise. In fact, we're told that he's still in that room. I'm going to try to grab him on the way out.

But we're told privately that he didn't explicitly endorse Steve Scalise. In fact, he said something along the lines of, "I will get behind whoever gets 217 votes on the floor."

He had said that publicly, too, several times to me as I had asked him before this vote. But the fact that he said it after the vote also is significant.

You can only get 217 votes on the House floor if you can only lose -- if you lose four Republicans. So it's unclear how that would happen without the support of Jim Jordan and a lot of his own supporters here.

So perhaps there need to be further discussions with Jim Jordan about getting his backing and getting his -- a lot of his backers in line behind Scalise.

Some question, too, I didn't hear Scalise say explicitly when the vote would be on the floor because that has been a debate.

A lot of these members want to end this all together. This has been a difficult week for the House Republicans. Things are completely paralyzed.

They know how bad they look. They're concerned about the political fallout. They just want to move ahead. But going ahead without the votes is a huge risk that Scalise and his team know full well.

The question is, when do they roll the dice and try to dare their members to vote against this or do they try to hash this all out behind the scenes? And if they do the latter, that will only drag out for some time.

But the first question is, what will Jim Jordan do? Will he get behind Scalise and will his supporters also fall in line as they try to put this messy episode behind them?

SANCHEZ: A messy episode, indeed.

Manu, please keep us posted if you see the Congressman from Ohio.

Let's discuss with a Republican lawmaker who was in the room. Joining us is New York Congressman Mike Lawler. Congressman, thank you so much for sharing part of your afternoon with

us. I know it's been a busy one.

First, did you vote for Steve Scalise to be nominated as speaker? And will you vote for him once the vote happens on the floor?

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): No, I did not. And I haven't decided yet, made a final decision.

But I think it's part of the challenge that we have had throughout the year. The majority of the majority has been disregarded by a handful of members repeatedly and flagrantly and, as a result, we deposed of our speaker a week ago with 208 Democrats.

Throughout this entire week, I have asked repeatedly, of both candidates, what their plan is to deal with that. And frankly, there hasn't been one. That is part of my frustration, you know, as we move forward.

There was a motion to ensure that we change the rules for this election to make sure that we have 217 votes before going to the floor. And I think it is foolish to rush this to the floor unless you know you have 217 votes. I think that is a challenge at the moment.

So it's going to be -- it's going to be interesting later today when we go out to the floor to vote.

SANCHEZ: Yes, I bet it's going to be interesting.

Congressman, what does Steve Scalise need to do to earn your vote? You alluded to creating some kind of structure in which a motion to vacate would not be on the table the way it was for McCarthy, who was ultimately ousted.

[13:50:09]

What else does Scalise need to do to become the 56th speaker in your eyes?

LAWLER: Look, there needs to be accountability. And when you have a conference of 221 members, and it requires 218 at any given point to pass legislation, then you need to have structure. You need to be able to work together as a team.

And I think that has been one of the biggest challenges throughout these 10 months, is the handful of people who have refused to work as a team. And unless there is accountability on that, it makes it very hard moving forward.

The idea that somehow just changing -- rearranging the deck chairs here is going to fix the problem or somehow that Kevin McCarthy was the problem is laughable. Kevin McCarthy did a phenomenal job as speaker.

And I think the question for those moving forward is, what is actually going to change that's going to fix the problem? And so far, I still haven't heard an answer to that.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, you were a vocal supporter of Speaker McCarthy. You voted against his ouster. You had very choice things to say about those who pursued the motion to vacate.

I'm wondering if you think the former speaker is now helping the effort to avoid what would be a messy fight on the floor or if he has concerns himself that may lead to more drawn-out conflict.

LAWLER: I'm not going to speak for anybody else. I'm just going to speak for myself and what my concerns are at this point.

SANCHEZ: And so, Congressman, do you think that the others involved, the eight members who voted to oust Speaker McCarthy, now have outsized influence over who the next speaker is going to be? What's your message to them?

LAWLER: Well, I think that's the problem here. We had eight people who teamed up with 208 Democrats to remove a duly elected Republican speaker.

And there has been no reckoning on that. There has been no, frankly, honest and frank discussion about that. And so I still have concerns about how this works moving forward.

And I've expressed those concerns and, you know, seemingly on deaf ears.

But I think before going to the floor, you know, the speaker designee better make sure he has 217 votes.

SANCHEZ: On that note, every vote on the Republican side is going to count.

And this is sort of a sidetrack, but it gets to the main question of electing a new speaker. You actually, recently, I think as soon as today, re-co-sponsored legislation to expel Congressman George Santos from Congress.

There was a superseding indictment that was filed yesterday. Ten new charges that he's facing, including identity theft, all sorts of fraud.

Given that the margins are so slim for Republicans, specifically in electing a new speaker, potentially on aid to Ukraine also, is it the right time to try to expel Congressman George Santos?

LAWLER: Well, that's kind of ironic coming from the press. I mean, they've been pushing for the man to be expelled for months.

Look, it takes two-thirds to expel a member from Congress. There were not two-thirds votes back in May when the initial expulsion resolution was brought, which is why it was referred to the Ethics Committee.

Myself and my New York colleagues wanted to allow the time for the investigation to, you know, be handled. But with the guilty plea of his treasurer, admitting to the very

scheme that he has been now twice indicted on, with 23 felony counts, he cannot serve. I've said repeatedly since December, he needed to resign. I believe that.

And in the absence of his resignation, the time to act is now. I mean, it just -- it's clear with his treasurer's guilty plea what occurred. And as far as I'm concerned, he should not be a member of Congress.

SANCHEZ: To be clear, Congressman Lawler, I was not in any way defending the actions of George Santos. I just wondered how the math might come into play because it seemed like it did come into play when Kevin McCarthy --

(CROSSTALK)

LAWLER: Well, we can't -- we can't do anything --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: -- asking Santos to resign --

(CROSSTALK)

LAWLER: We can't do anything -- we can't do anything until there's a new speaker anyway. The reality is it has been introduced. It will be a privileged resolution. And there will be a vote on it.

[13:55:06]

SANCHEZ: Congressman, how much does what is happening in Israel, the attack by Hamas, a brutal attack on civilians in Israel, how much does that weigh into your decision-making when it comes to electing a new speaker?

LAWLER: Look, it's obviously very important. There are a lot of important issues that my colleagues, who chose to connect with 208 Democrats to remove the speaker last week, should have thought about before doing it.

And the reality is, from our border to the spending to the crisis in Israel and Ukraine, we have a lot of challenges that we need to deal with, that we need to get back to work on.

But whoever the speaker nominee is needs 217 votes and they need to make sure they have it.

SANCHEZ: Is it fair to say you believe those eight Republican members that voted to oust Kevin McCarthy have put national security at risk, given that the House is now frozen before it can elect a speaker?

LAWLER: Look, currently, the administration has the ability to do what it needs to do. We need to obviously increase aid to Israel to help with supplemental funding, especially for the Iron Dome. And we need to get back to work on that expeditiously. So look, at the end of the day, we have a job to do. We need to elect

a speaker. We need to get focused on the issues that matter to the American people and impact our allies around the world.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, I also wanted to ask about the classified briefing House members received earlier on the situation in Israel. Obviously, there are things that you can't share with us.

But I'm wondering what stuck out most to you about that briefing, if you perhaps learned anything about the number of Americans currently being held hostage by Hamas.

LAWLER: Look, we did learn some classified information. Obviously, I'm not able to share a lot of it.

But you know, we are concerned about those that have been identified as missing. You know, we have not confirmed that they are, in fact, hostages at this point.

But certainly, my objective in the immediate is to get our hostages, potential hostages back and to make sure that any American citizen, who wants to leave Israel and come back to the United States, is able to do so expeditiously.

It's why I've called on the administration to get military aircraft to Israel immediately so that we can get folks home.

The biggest challenge right now is United States commercial airlines are not flying into Israel because of the insurance and the security risks. And so, as a result, we need to make sure that we get military aircraft in to help evacuate our citizens.

SANCHEZ: Have you heard anything from the administration, perhaps the State Department on a potential airlift?

LAWLER: We've been told an announcement will be coming within the next 24 hours or so. But they need to move expeditiously.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, I also wanted to get your perspective, because CNN's reporting is that there are -- is conflicting information about Iran's potential involvement in the Hamas attacks over the weekend.

There is Israeli information that says Iran effectively gave Hamas the green light. And yet, on the U.S. side, there's intelligence that says that Tehran was caught off guard by the attacks over the weekend.

Which side do you lean toward, or what do you believe is the truth?

LAWLER: Well, if that was true, I have a bridge to sell you.

Look, Iran is the biggest state sponsor of terror. They have funded and backed Hamas for years. The idea that, somehow, they were caught off guard is the biggest load of nonsense I've heard.

They are absolutely involved. And any notion to the contrary, people should disabuse themselves of quickly. SANCHEZ: And, Congressman, I also wanted to get your thoughts on the

300,000 Israeli troops that have been mobilized. It appears as though a ground operation into Gaza is imminent.

I'm wondering what you think the end goal should be for Israel. Is it the dissolution of Hamas?

LAWLER: Not the dissolution. The elimination. Hamas is a terrorist organization hellbent on wiping Israel off the face of the earth. And they should no longer exist. And anyone affiliated or associated with them should reap the consequences of it.

[13:59:56]

SANCHEZ: Are you concerned at all that doing so could lead to a protracted military presence in Gaza by Israel that would likely lead to what would seemingly be an endless war, an insurgent sort of combat in an urban landscape with millions perhaps, over hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties, does that concern you?