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White House Gives Update On Israel Situation; Israel Fires Howitzers Near Gaza Border; Steve Scalise Still Lacks Votes To Win Speakership; Interview With Representative Ken Buck (R-CO) About House Speakership And Israel; Misinformation Spreading Amid Fighting In The Middle East. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 12, 2023 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATION: Have to be respectful of the needs and the desires of Americans who live there. We know that some want to leave. We also know that a lot of them want to stay. It's home. They don't want to go. And we have to respect that as well. So we tailor the approach based on what's going on. And what's going on geographically inside a country because some parts of countries that are in distress are safer than others and people are less likely to want to go. You have to take all that into consideration.

And the other thing I'd say to your question is, as this situation evolves, you should expect that so too will our approach evolve. And if there's a need to do more or to do it differently, well, by goodness, we'll do that. But right now in the early hours there was still ample commercial flights going out of Ben Gurion and certainly there were some viable land routes. We kept -- and part of the reason why we're doing this is because we have such good communication with Americans and we're having these conversations, and we realized that as the situation has evolved more and more Americans were expressing a desire to leave and because not all carriers are working out of Ben Gurion this makes sense as the next best move. If we have to adjust it we absolutely will.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: On the day of jihad, are we doing anything to fortify I guess the U.S. against any potential activity against Americans domestically or abroad given the calls for a day of jihad and your statement yesterday that now is not the time to go back and look at any intelligence gaps? Is it the time being that tomorrow is supposed to be this day of jihad?

KIRBY: What I meant yesterday was we're focused on making sure that our intelligence sharing with the Israelis is as sharp and as good as possible for the operations that they are in. I saw some reporting that made it sound like I blew it off. That is not the case. We understand that there will be a need to go back and look at what was missed by whom and when. Of course we're going to do that. But we've got to stay focused on the task at hand right now.

And as for your second question, absolutely, we are constantly in touch with local law enforcement, state and federal officials across the country to make sure that we are as vigilant as we can be to be able to identify and disrupt any threats to the American people. We're absolutely going to stay focused on that.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: John, is the concern about publicly addressing the $6 million as now being frozen a concern that it would suggest culpability on the part of Iran on these specific events, and is that too volatile a statement for the U.S. government to make publicly since clearly it's being communicated privately to lawmakers and others?

KIRBY: Again, I don't have anything more to add on this, Kelly. All I can tell you is we haven't seen any specific evidence that Iran was involved specifically with these attacks. But as we've said, broadly, yes, they're certainly complicit. We're not walking away from the fact that Iran has supported Hamas and other terrorist networks. So this is not about being unwilling to speak to culpability.

We've already spoken to the culpability and complicity of Iran with respect to support to terrorist groups. I'm just not able to go into more detail than that. I would tell you that -- again, I'll remind that --

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: We've been listening to NSC spokesperson John Kirby from the podium in the press room at the White House discussing the ongoing situation in Israel. The NSC spokesperson answering reporters' questions. We're going to keep monitoring that.

Just some highlights. He confirmed at least 27 Americans have been killed in the Hamas attacks over the weekend. 14, 14 remain unaccounted for, though the NSC spokesperson says he believes that fewer than a handful are currently being held hostage by Hamas. He expressed that the United States is now mobilizing an effort to learn more information, information sharing with Israel to get a sense of where they may be, exactly how many there may be, and to move forward in recovering those hostages.

He also talked about trying to offer resources to Americans currently in Israel experiencing difficulty in trying to get out. And notably he was asked repeatedly about reporting that is circulating that there was an agreement with Qatar to hold on to $6 billion worth of Iranian money that the United States recently unfroze as part of a negotiated deal to release Americans that had been detained in Iran.

He refused to get into that reporting. He did say not a single dollar of that money has been spent. Obviously, there are still many questions over just how involved Iran may have been in the attacks over the weekend.

We want to get some perspective on not only what we just heard from John Kirby but also some battlefield perspective as well, from CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Colonel Leighton, thanks so much for being with us. What of what John Kirby said stood out to you?

[13:35:03] COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, one of the things in addition to all the things that you mentioned, Boris, is the allusion to the laws of armed conflict and words by both the secretary of State and the president of the United States that Israel must follow the rules of armed conflict. The White House was I think trying to make sure that that message got out without making it too public.

But the fact of the matter is there is some concern that Israel will not follow the same rules like we're used to, for example, if the American military goes in there and the concern I think on the White House's part is that it look good in the sense that if Israel goes in to a ground invasion, if they actually go into Gaza like that, that they do it under the strictest control with a minimum of civilian casualties.

SANCHEZ: Yes, that is a major concern going into an area like Gaza, a very tight strip of land with over two million people in it.

Let's talk about the timeline of a potential ground operation because we're seeing not only a massive number of troops being amassed at the border with Gaza but tanks, howitzers as well.

LEIGHTON: Yes, absolutely. Well, let's start with the howitzers. We've got -- right here along the Gaza border you have Israeli howitzers. They have a range of somewhere around 25 miles. And the basic area that they're covering is about this area right in here in this part of Gaza, the very northern part of the area. And when you look at that there are going to be some things that they're going to have to deal with as they go into this.

You know, if you go into an urban warfare environment you've got to deal with rockets from the other side. You've got to deal with drones from their side. Your drones may also be impacted by that if you're an Israeli. Tunnels are going to be a major factor. Anti-armor attacks could very easily happen. And tanks are going to be actually a major effort in any type of scenario here. Tanks like the Merkava tanks that the Israelis use are going to be present in any type of urban warfare environment and they're going to be present on almost any battlefield that you have out there, whether it's in the north or in the south.

SANCHEZ: I'm glad you said that because I believe this video is actually from Israel's border with Lebanon.

LEIGHTON: That is correct. Yes.

SANCHEZ: And there are concerns, if we can go to a map quickly, about Israel fighting a war on multiple fronts because you not only have the ongoing situation in Gaza, you also have Hezbollah in Lebanon, the Golan Heights in that area near Syria. There are obviously groups that are anti-Israel there. The West Bank. The IDF could be stretched thin. No?

LEIGHTON: Absolutely. And this has happened historically before. This happened in 1948 when Israel was started. Happened in 1956. Happened in 1967. And to an extent in 1973 as well. So in each of these cases the exact nations varied a bit, but basically from Syria and from Egypt you had forces coming into those areas.

So Israel has had historical experience with that but now what they're dealing with is threats from Gaza, potentially threats from the West Bank, and potentially threats from Lebanon, and possibly threats from external elements in Syria. So those are the things that would concern them most. And that is the kind of environment that Israel finds itself in at this point.

SANCHEZ: Yes. And to get back to the point you were making a moment ago about the White House sort of expressing concern over the innocent people in Gaza, again, women and children that had nothing to do with the attacks over the weekend. What steps can the IDF take to try to save and preserve innocent life?

LEIGHTON: So the key thing is how you do your targeting process. It has to be very intelligence-centric. And by intelligence I mean intelligence that not only takes into account the military aspect but also where the civilian population is located, where the hospitals are, where the mosques are. Are the mosques being used for only legitimate purposes, same with the hospitals, or are they also being used to house Hamas elements?

And that has happened before where all of a sudden a hospital will become a legitimate target because it is being used by the opposite side, by the adversary. And that is something that has to be sorted out and it's very complex, but it has to be done in a legal manner and it has to be done very thoroughly, and even with all the oversight in the world mistakes are still possible.

SANCHEZ: As we've seen historically with Hamas, they don't mind muddying the waters of what is a military target and a civilian one.

Colonel Cedric Leighton, we very much appreciate the perspective. Thank you, sir.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Still much more to come. Our special live coverage of "Israel at War" continues after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:43:42]

SANCHEZ: Happening right now House Republican members are huddling behind closed doors trying to find a way to end internal division and elect a new speaker of the House. Majority leader Steve Scalise won the conference's nomination but sources tell CNN he still has a ways to go from having enough votes to get the speaker's gavel.

Let's take you to Capitol Hill now with CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju.

Manu, bring us up to speed. Where do things stand right now?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, behind closed doors right now Steve Scalise, the House majority leader and nominee to be speaker of the House, is trying to salvage his bid to run this chamber amid this paralysis that has been going on for more than a week after that unprecedented vote last week to oust Kevin McCarthy from the speakership, facing that right-wing revolt and votes with Democrats to push McCarthy out.

Now Steve Scalise is trying to get the votes but he is simply not there. He can only afford to lose five -- four votes total among Republicans. There are more than four Republicans who are opposed. There are probably a dozen, maybe up to two dozen. Some raising serious concerns including some who I caught up with on their way in, say they're not going to support Steve Scalise on the floor.

They say they're going to support Jim Jordan, who Scalise beat for the Republican nomination to become speaker but still plan to vote for Jordan showing that at the moment Scalise does not have the votes. Listen.

[13:45:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ANDREW OGLES (R-TN): I love Steve Scalise. He's a good friend. But, you know, I'm also really good friends with Jim Jordan. It's a tough choice for me. But right now I think Jim Jordan is closer to the magic number.

REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): I'm never going to just say I'm a never so and so. You know, we're adults, let's go figure out how to lead. But I am not in a positive place right now with respect to Steve Scalise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, in this meeting members are going up to the mic, raising their concerns. Scalise is trying to answer each of these concerns. We're told that he has pushed back or at least indicated that he could do the job amid concerns over his own health. Scalise is battling blood cancer right now but a treatable form of blood cancer. He says that he is in good condition to do that. He's also told members he's not cutting any side deals, not making any concessions with members in order to win the speakership.

So he is indicating he is not dropping out at this moment even though the road to the speakership at the moment appears very, very grim. Can he get there? Scalise still believes he can. Unclear, though, when the vote will happen on the floor or if these types of meetings behind closed doors will continue on until Scalise believes he has the votes to try to push it to the floor, try to dare his members to vote against it.

That remains an open question here as the House remains completely paralyzed as the speakership crisis plays out -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Yes, some difficult math there for Scalise. And Manu, there is drama elsewhere on Capitol Hill, too. Federal prosecutors announcing an additional charge against New Jersey Senator Bob Menendez and his wife, alleging they conspired to act as foreign agents for Egypt. How does this impact him on Capitol Hill?

RAJU: Well, he's already been forced to step aside as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, but he is still a member of that committee. He still is going to classified briefings. He is still attending closed-door meetings. And he is still a candidate at the moment for re-election in 2024. He has not said whether or not he will run for re-election explicitly yet, but there have been calls growing among Democrats for him to step aside, to resign, and undoubtedly this new charge, very serious one, of the former Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman trying to aid the government of Egypt, use his official power in some way, allegations that he has so far denied, that will undoubtedly raise pressure, raise concerns among Democrats that he should no longer be part of this Senate Democratic caucus and he should no longer be part of the Senate at large.

The question will be, will any action be taken against him, votes to expel him or kick him off committees? At the moment the majority leader of the Senate, Chuck Schumer, has not indicated that he plans to take any of those steps, but raising still fresh concerns among Democrats amid these pretty startling allegations against the Democratic senator from New Jersey -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. Please keep us updated with the latest you hear on the race for speaker.

Let's discuss with a Republican who will weigh in on that race. Colorado congressman and Freedom Caucus member Ken Buck joins us now. He's a member of the Foreign Affairs and Judiciary Committees.

Congressman, thanks so much for sharing part of what I assume is going to be a busy afternoon for you. Members are right now behind closed doors with Congressman Scalise answering their questions. How come you're not there?

REP. KEN BUCK (R-CO): Because I'm here.

SANCHEZ: Right.

BUCK: I have talked to Steve. I spent a half hour with him last night, and had a great conversation with him. And I told him I would not hold up his nomination. If he gets close, I will support his nomination.

SANCHEZ: You did voice some concerns about him, though. And you did tell my colleague Kaitlan Collins that you had more -- you were seeking more answers from him. On what specifically?

BUCK: Well, for one, I want to know whether he's going to put a Ukraine funding bill on the floor. Right now we have the idea I guess that we would support, have a supplemental bill for Ukraine and Israel. And I want to make sure that those bills come to the floor so members get to vote on it.

SANCHEZ: You would support combining aid for Israel and aid for Ukraine?

BUCK: I would support them separately or combined. SANCHEZ: Excellent. So you noted yesterday that there are some seven

Republican colleagues of yours that are firmly against Scalise, some others, perhaps seven or so that are undecided. Have you had a chance to speak with them? Have you heard any of their concerns that you may try to persuade them against?

BUCK: I have heard concerns from a number of them, and that list has actually grown now. I think Steve has probably 14 or 15 hard no's against him. I don't think he takes this to the floor. I think at some point today or tomorrow he makes a decision on whether he's going to withdraw.

SANCHEZ: Do you have any clarity on what he might be offering them as incentive?

BUCK: I think just answers. Just like I had concerns about a Ukraine and Israel supplemental bill I think they have concerns about other issues and they want answers.

SANCHEZ: Well, for example, Marjorie Taylor Greene is concerned about his health. Nancy Mace is concerned about his past links to white supremacist groups. You had voiced concern about him not publicly stating that Joe Biden won the 2020 election fair and square. Can he persuade some of those hard no's, you think?

[13:50:01]

BUCK: Well, first of all, I think what Marjorie is saying is really unfortunate. The man has treatable cancer. He will get through that. And I think she has other plans for other candidates. The second concern, a number of African-American leaders have stood up and supported Steve and said he doesn't have a racist bone in his body. And so that to me is unfortunate. I think the concerns are more about policy rather than the person himself.

SANCHEZ: I want to get back to the conversation we should have about Israel and aid to Israel because, obviously, this sort of chaos unfolding in the House has frozen the body. Do you have any concerns that it might delay aid to Israel, this ongoing fight over speaker?

BUCK: We have not had a request from the administration. And there isn't -- in my opinion, there isn't one in the pipeline right now. So I don't think we are in danger of harming our relationship with Israel or Israel's ability to fend off this crisis.

SANCHEZ: On the potential for harming the relationship with Israel, former President Trump, the current frontrunner in 2024 for the Republicans, he blasted Benjamin Netanyahu, and he criticized the Israeli intelligence. He claimed that before Hamas attacked, quote, "Thousands of people knew about it and they let this slip by."

How much influence do you think those remarks have on the Republican base?

BUCK: Well, I don't think those remarks are helpful. I don't know what they have -- they didn't have any influence on me. I don't think there's any facts to back up what the president said right there.

SANCHEZ: But you don't think that that might influence people within the base or your fellow Republican lawmakers, many of whom have sort of shifted their positions on things like Ukraine, based on what the former president said?

BUCK: No, I don't. I think that people understand the significance of Israel and the Middle East. People understand the cultural ties that Israel has to the United States, and we're not backing away from either the Republican Party or America is not backing away from our commitments to Israel.

SANCHEZ: It seems all but certain that we're going to see a ground operation by the IDF into Gaza. What do you think the end goal should be there?

BUCK: I think Benjamin Netanyahu and others have stated very clearly what the end goal is, and that's to make sure that this never happens again. That Hamas does not have the military capability to do this. That the tunnels have been sealed. And that Israel is in a more secure position.

SANCHEZ: Are you concerned about the loss of civilian life that may come from an extended military presence for Israel in Gaza?

BUCK: Any loss of civilian life on the Israeli side or in the Gaza side should be squarely put on the shoulders of Hamas and not on the shoulders of Israel. They have every right to go in and defend themselves. There will be loss of life. It's tragic, but it is an unfortunate situation.

SANCHEZ: Are you concerned about what, if Israel succeeds and they eliminate Hamas what might take its place?

BUCK: Well, it won't take its place very quickly. I believe that Israel will have Gaza in control for a number of years. Obviously, there will be a void. There will be a vacuum. It will get filled. But no, I'm not concerned. I think Israel has a very clear understanding of how fragile its neighbors and the relationship with its neighbors are.

SANCHEZ: Congressman Ken Buck, we very much appreciate the conversation. Thanks for joining us.

BUCK: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still ahead, we're following the latest on the ground in Israel. A dire situation unfolding right now in Gaza.

CNN NEWS CENTRAL returns in just a few minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:58:05] SANCHEZ: Executives at X, formerly known as Twitter, say the company has removed hundreds of Hamas-affiliated accounts along with thousands of posts since start of the war in Israel. This after the E.U. wrote a letter to X and Facebook urging the companies to take down misleading posts and videos and comply with European law.

CNN's Donie O'Sullivan has a look at the flood of misinformation and downright lies that have gone viral in recent days.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This might look like a video of a real soldier firing a real rocket at an aircraft. It was posted on X, formerly known as Twitter, with the caption, "More power to you, Hamas." But it's not real. It's actually a clip from a video game named Arma 3.

Despite that, it's been viewed more than half a million times on X. The viral clip is just one of many pieces of misinformation that spread rapidly on the platform in the hours after Hamas launched a surprise attack against Israel.

After Elon Musk took over Twitter last year, he laid off thousands of employees, including many responsible for combating misinformation on the platform. Now, to help police false content, the company relies heavily on Community Notes, a crowdsourced, user-generated fact-check system, like this one, added to the bottom of a post.

Musk's changes to verification on the platform is also causing confusion. Before, a blue badge was proof a person or organization was who they said they were, but now anyone can buy a verified account with a blue checkmark and those accounts are boosted by X's algorithms and the people who run them even have the chance to make money from their posts.

This video is shared by a blue badge account and has been viewed nearly two million times. The video purports to show Hamas militants capturing senior Israeli officials. But this is false.

It is actually a video of authorities in Azerbaijan arresting separatist leaders.