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Israel Tells 1.1M to Leave Northern Gaza; UN Says its "Impossible"; Soon: Blinken Meets with Leaders in Qatar and Israel- Hamas War; GOP Scrambling after Scalise Drops out of Speaker's Race; Defense Secretary Austin Arrives in Israel; Israeli Tanks on the Move near Gaza Border. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired October 13, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan with John Berman. Sara Sidner is on her way to Israel right now. The breaking news that we're watching, well, we're watching breaking news on many fronts, including a mass evacuation being ordered.

Israel, just hours ago, ordered more than a million people to get out of Northern Gaza and begin heading south, to move south to avoid what is coming. Hamas, though, has responded to this. This order from the IDF, Hamas' response, telling civilians to stay in place.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So it is not clear right now how much time the IDF is getting people to leave this region up here. Its north of Wadi Gaza, this wetland right here. You're talking about that area with a population density of about 25,000 people per square mile. That's the dividing line you can see. It's actually the most densely populated area that Israel is now calling on people to leave from. Many of these people, they have no means to get out and know where to go.

Right now. We want to get right to Nic Robertson, who is in Sderot, an Israeli town mile, two miles from the border with Gaza. Nic, why don't you tell us what you're saying?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, we've been seeing and hearing airstrikes and artillery strikes coming on Gaza behind us. And I have to say the past 12 hours, at least, through the night last night was some of the heaviest bombardment we've heard going on in the northern end of Gaza right behind me. That's the sort of tip of the northern end of Gaza. I'm hearing more detonations there right now.

The Israeli defense Force say that so far they have fired 6,000 air launch missiles on Gaza. Now, when you take their numbers back from the last big confrontation, 2014 with Hamas, a 50 day war back that summer, this 6,000 figure in six days is already more missiles than the IDF fired on Gaza -- at targets in Gaza. Back in that confrontation. So that gives you an idea of the magnitude of strikes. We've heard from the IDF saying that the reason that they've asked civilians to move south in Gaza is for humanitarian reasons. They know they're under a lot of scrutiny. They know they're under a lot of pressure, about the climbing Palestinian death toll, over 1,500 already. So they say that they want those civilians to get out of the way.

Hamas is telling the civilians to stay in place. They're saying this is psychological warfare by the Israelis. They're trying to evict you from your homes for another time. The only way we'll go, Hamas says, is to our homelands. So already the scene is set.

Hamas is telling us civilians don't move, Israel is telling the civilians move, because this is a humanitarian gesture to potentially spare civilian casualties. So therefore, when there are civilian casualties that it's Hamas to blame, because they refused to let the civilians move south.

And of course, in Gaza, Hamas controls pretty much transportation. Most people don't have a way of moving south other than on foot, and we've seen images of people doing that on foot. Hamas would have to provide transportation, buses and trucks and that sort of thing, which are in short supply in Gaza.

But you know, from our vantage point here today, again, it just sounds as if that area, Northern Gaza, continues to be hit. Israel asked the civilians move somewhere safer. Hamas says don't move.

BERMAN: Again, Nic Robertson right here in Sderot. This is Gaza right here. This is the dividing line. Israel asking people to move south of there. Nic hearing some of the loudest, most constant bombardment of Northern Gaza that he has seen over the last several days, Nic, stay safe, keep us posted as to what you're seeing and hearing. Kate?

BOLDUAN: We're also watching here, we're going to show you, these are some live pictures of huge protests being held against the strikes on Gaza. This is the scene in Yemen this hour.

CNN's Becky Anderson is in Jerusalem for us, amid these protests that are happening across parts of the Middle East. This is also, as the United States is showing, once again, its ironclad support of Israel to defend itself now. What's the latest Becky?

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Look, there's no doubt that the events of this past week have once again put the Palestinian issue front and center in the minds of not only decision makers in this region but also the general public.

And today we've seen mass protests across this region in support of Gaza in places like Bahrain, in Baghdad, in Sderot (ph) that you just mentioned, and of course, in Iran's capital, Tehran. A lot of these protests, heeding the calls of getting out into the streets and showing anger of what they perceive to be Israeli crimes being committed against Palestinians.

[09:05:00] Now, in a place like Tehran, for example, these protests will be sponsored and supported by the regime and typically come right after Friday prayers. And the point is to show that there's public backing for the regime support for groups like Hamas and Hezbollah that it calls collective resistance. And those kinds of protests in Iran, even Iraq, where the Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr was calling his supporters out, are to be expected, quite frankly.

But then we've also seen protests in places like Jordan, where masses have taken to the streets to protest against the siege of Gaza, and what many fear is this impending ground incursion and subsequent humanitarian catastrophe that may unfold there as Israeli troops battle Hamas militants street by street. And that is what makes this situation so important right now in this region. A lot of people here galvanized by what they are seeing and worried about what's to come and they are clearly getting out and getting their voices heard. So that's the situation there.

I'm in Jerusalem -- let me just sort of close out with this. We've been out in East Jerusalem today, very few people on the streets, and very few people at the Al-Aqsa Mosque today. You would normally see the sort of the courtyard outside of the mosque full of those at midday prayers, but it was very, very empty today. And we spoke to people who said it was nearly clear.

I mean, the Israeli army has been pretty selective about who they let into that compound. today. It was women over the age of 50 and men over the age of 60. We were in East Jerusalem, and people were coming back.

I know -- I mean, there was there were some scuffles, I have to say. But I've been and covered the violence here in in East Jerusalem in the past, it was, I have to say, nothing like that. So I would say it was a sort of uneasy sense of calm, to be honest in East Jerusalem today.

But as you can see, you know, there is -- that there are definitely sort of people heeding these calls, to voice their protests against what is going on in Gaza. And, it really remains to be seen what happens next in the sort of hours to come at this point. Back to you guys.

BOLDUAN: Becky, thank you so much. We're going to sit close to you as we're watching these protests play out and things continue to develop exactly where you are. Thank you, Becky. John?

BERMAN: All right, Kate. I have a map of the Middle East up here. Almost all of it. Why? Because happening now, U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken is here in Qatar. He is going to meet with senior officials there, including the Emir and Prime Minister. Qatar has close ties to Hamas and is seen as having influence over the group. The hope is Qatar could work toward freeing the 100 plus hostages in Gaza.

Let me give you a sense of the travels of Blinken already today. You can see video of him from earlier. But he began the day in Jordan where he met with the King of Jordan. He also met with a Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas there, then he went to Qatar. He's going to go to Bahrain after Qatar, and then ultimately he will go to Saudi Arabia. He is spanning the region right now on this diplomatic mission.

So let's get right to seen as Natasha Bertrand, to get a sense of what the Secretary of State is hoping to get out of this. Natasha?

NATASHA BERTRAND. CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, John, well, he's really trying to put pressure on these Arab States to in turn pressure Hamas to release the hostages that it currently has in captivity in Gaza. And that is one of the main messages, of course, that he was delivering to Qatar, which has very close ties to Hamas, and which has emerged as a really key intermediary to try to organize some kind of prisoner swap, we are told, between the Israelis and the Palestinians here and Hamas.

And so what we are told is that Qatar has been mediating between Israel and Hamas, specifically to exchange women and children that are being held in Gaza in exchange for Palestinian women and teenagers who are being held in Israeli jails. That is what we were told earlier this week.

But again, all of this is really going to depend a lot on the condition of the hostages, whether they are -- you know, whether Hamas is willing to engage in this kind of prisoner swap. So far, we have not seen signs that they're willing to do that. But this is a diplomatic tool that is aimed at putting pressure on these regional States who might have some kind of leverage over Hamas to try to get them to release these prisoners.

Now, Blinken, as you said, he has been going across the region. He was in Jordan, now he's in Qatar, he's going to Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and then he is going to be going to the UAE and Egypt. So this is really intensive shuttle diplomacy here, because I think all U.S. officials recognize that time is really of the essence.

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We saw earlier this morning that the IDF and the Israelis have indicated that they need, or that they want civilians to get out of Gaza, potentially in advance of some kind of ground operation by the Israelis into Gaza. And so the worry, of course, is that the hostages and the captives there could be caught in the crossfire. So time is really important. It's really of the essence, and Secretary Blinken really pulling out all the stops here to pressure those Arab States to use their leverage and influence on Hamas, John.

BERMAN: Yes, a remarkable trip. Again, in Qatar right now to Bahrain to Riyadh, ultimately, to the UAE and then to Egypt. Natasha Bertrand keep us posted. And we likely will hear from the Secretary of State in the coming hours. Thanks Natasha. Kate?

BOLDUAN: And we will bring that to you when he does speak, of course. With us now is Daniel Kurtzer, he is a former U.S. Ambassador to Israel and Egypt. Ambassador, thank you so much. First and foremost, you have the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of State in tandem in Israel, they just detailed also the travels of Tony Blinken now. Lloyd Austin could not have been more clear today in the support for Israel. What do you make of this show of force?

DANIEL KURTZER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL & EGYPT: Well, you have three messages that are being undertaken simultaneously by U.S. officials. Number one, the President's message the other day, that there is no distance between us and Israel, we have their back. And that's going to be reinforced in almost anything the administration says.

Number two, Secretary of State, as your reporters have indicated, is out there trying to avert a humanitarian crisis by a starting a de- escalation of the conflict to seeing whether or not humanitarian distress can be relieved. And number three, the Secretary of Defense, coordinating with Israel on what we might do militarily to deter Hezbollah and Iran from further escalating this conflict.

So it's a complicated set of policy activities. But it's good to see that there's this kind of activity on these three different fronts.

BOLDUAN: Let's go through a little bit of these three fronts, if you will. What do you do -- and it's more than complicated to try to figure out and get right. But what do you do about a humanitarian crisis that's unfolding? Gaza, civilians cut off from resources, hospitals reporting to be overwhelmed, they're being asked to evacuate to the southern part -- the southern part of Gaza now. How do you get this right, what needs to happen right away?

KURTZER: Well, I think there's two ways to approach it. One is through this de-escalation idea. Can some kind of a hostage release, prisoner release deal be arranged quickly, that gives pause to the Military engagement? That doesn't solve the humanitarian issue, but it may delay what looks like an inevitable Israeli ground operation.

Number two, there are two question marks on the humanitarian side. Is there such a thing as the humanitarian corridor, for example, into Egypt under UN auspices for the temporary relocation of people in Gaza? And number two would be some pressure on the part of Qatar, Egypt, Turkey and others on Hamas to stop using hostages as human shields, and essentially to come out and fight.

Israel's concern right now with respect to its ground operation is that the hostages and civilians are in the way, and that's being used as an asset by Hamas. None of these, frankly, Kate, is easy, and none of them may work, which suggests that we are going to face a significant humanitarian crisis.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I mean, when Israelis -- when Israeli leaders say that they are going to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth, what is this going to look like?

KURTZER: Well, first of all, I don't think it's going to be possible to do that. Hamas is a movement. It's not a card carrying, uniform wearing organization. What the Israelis, I think, are looking at is the decapitation of the leadership. And that's what they've tried to do in the past.

I think they're bombing activities now and into the days ahead will be designed to locate Hamas leaders and see if they can't have killed him at that point. A ground operation should it occur would be further evidence that that's what the objective is -- kill, capture as many of the leaders and operatives of Hamas as possible. But to wipe Hamas off the face of the Earth, I don't think that's going to be doable.

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BOLDUAN: How great is the risk, do you think, of this spilling over? Talking about kind of a third front here, of this spilling over to be a larger regional conflict?

KURTZER: Oh, I think the risk is -- of escalation is terrifically high. You have the West Bank and East Jerusalem -- I heard Becky Anderson note that East Jerusalem is quiet. But we've seen indications of problems in the West Bank.

The huge problem on the northern border, Israel's reservists are split between the northern border and the Gaza area, because of the threat of Hezbollah, which is a much more formidable terrorist organization and Hamas. And of course, the big threat of escalation involving Iran. Any of these could be triggered by calculation or miscalculation, and therefore the threat is very high.

BOLDUAN: Ambassador, thank you so much for coming on. John?

BERMAN: All right. The Israel Defense Forces dropping pamphlets over Gaza, telling people to move south. 1 million people here, they want to move over the Wadi Gaza marshland right there, an evacuation south. Hamas says don't go. We're going to speak to a spokesman from the IDF to get a sense of how they think this is supposed to happen. Stay with us.

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BERMAN: This morning, the Israeli Military dropped leaflets over northern Gaza, telling people, more than a million people, to move south now. Hamas is telling people not to leave. I can show you what the leaflets look like right now. This is a close up of these leaflets telling people to evacuate south. And I can show you exactly where they're told to go. This is northern Gaza, more than a million people leave here. It's the most densely populated area, people being told to leave.

With us now from the Israel Defense Forces Spokesperson Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner. Colonel, thank you so much for being with us. Can you clear something up? How long do the people of Northern Gaza have to leave?

LT. COL. PETER LERNER (RET.) IDF SPOKESPERSON: I think what is more important to ask is, when should they leave and I would say they need to leave immediately. We are taking our activities to a different level of striking Hamas' capabilities.

We are determined in defeating Hamas and destroying all of their terrorist infrastructure. The infrastructure they used to plan, coordinate, fund and strike in the heart of Israel's soft underbelly, the people of Israel, where they butchered us and -- in their bedrooms and in their living rooms.

So we are warning the people of Gaza that they need to evacuate this area. And I would say now, and they need to do it as quick as possible, because we want to deal with Hamas.

BERMAN: The United Nations said you gave people a 24 hour deadline. The EU today is saying that's totally unrealistic that a million people can't move from here to here in less than 24 hours. What's your response?

LERNER: Well, I'm really happy to see that some of the reports actually are showing that people are listening to our warning, despite Hamas, telling them to sacrifice themselves and not evacuate.

But that just actually that's this when Hamas tells people not to evacuate, it just goes to show what we're being -- what we've been saying. Hamas have no regard for human life, Israeli or Palestinian. If they have regard for human life, they would be evacuating people to the south, as we suggested, but they don't care.

So we are telling people if you care for your life, don't wait for Hamas, take your time, take your things, take your family and move south because Israel is fighting Hamas. You are not our enemy, Hamas is our enemy. And therefore we are operating in order to remove this threat once and for all from Israel.

BERMAN: Again, this is the dividing line between where you're telling people to go. In the north that includes Gaza City, the most populous city in Gaza. What do you think Gaza City will look like after this operation?

LERNER: I'll tell you just one example of something we've shared with CNN over the last 24 hours. Hamas positioned their strike drones on the roofs of houses. They don't care who lives in those houses. They've put them specifically on their house -- those houses.

We took out the strike drones, and this is what we're facing. So the reality of where Hamas is effectively made Gaza, the Gaza Strip, specifically the north of Gaza and Gaza City, a fortified position under the houses of people. So we're telling people we want you to move so that we can deal with this threat.

They cannot be permitted to govern the Gaza Strip as a staging ground for brutal massacres against Israel. We won't permit it.

BERMAN: When you say go, go where? Because as you will know, the Rafah crossing into Egypt in the south is closed as well. So you're just telling people to basically fault the country in half? LERNER: We've instructed them to remove -- move south of the Gaza Wadi, which is the Gaza River in the middle of the Gaza Strip, in order to make sure that we can strike and attack Hamas, the terrorist organization that is hiding behind the people. So you can't expect us not to defend our people, because Hamas is hiding behind theirs.

BERMAN: I do want to ask you about what could be the repercussions here. Again, here's Gaza, here's the northern border with Lebanon. Hezbollah, obviously, operates in southern Lebanon. Hezbollah in the past has said they've drawn a line. They say if Israeli ground forces move into Gaza, Hezbollah will strike at Israel. What's your concern there?

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LERNER: So the IDF over the last seven days now has recruited some 300,000 reservists in order to be prepared for all of our fronts, the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and of course, the border with Lebanon and front with Hezbollah.

The situation is such where -- and I would advise Hezbollah to watch very closely what we're doing now to Hamas. It would be a very grave mistake on their behalf if they decide to attack Israel. We are prepared. We have all of the forces necessary. We have a very competent force -- ground forces and naval forces all poised and prepared at a very high level of alert in order to confront Hezbollah if needs be.

BERMAN: I do want to ask, one of the things Hezbollah claimed is that some 13 of the hostages died in airstrikes. Do you have any confirmation of that? Do you have any proof of life at this point of the some 100 plus people who are missing in maybe in Gaza now?

LERNER: No, we don't. Not that I'm aware of. And I would say that Hamas is responsible for the wellbeing of all of the people they abducted to the Gaza Strip. We expect them to release the people home -- to their homes in Israel immediately. And they are going to pay the price for the abduction and for their actions and their hostilities and the atrocities that they've conducted against the people of Israel.

You know, Hamas, they have seriously broken the paradigm that was in existence up until last Saturday, on a Jewish holiday. And once they broke that paradigm, we are making a new paradigm, one where Israelis can live in peace and that people of Gaza can live in peace and where a terrorist organization does not have this sort of death and destruction that they have been -- they used and utilized against our people on Saturday.

Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner with the IDF. We appreciate you being with us this morning. Thank you very much. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us. In the United States. The United States is now 10 days in of a speaker less House of Representatives. Steve Scalise has now dropped out of consideration for the hugely important post with regard to everything we were just talking about in Israel. Republicans are now going yet deeper, further into unchartered waters. The deepening crisis on Capitol Hill, we're going to take you there next.

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