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Israel Tells 1.1M to Leave Northern Gaza; UN Says its "Impossible"; Soon: Blinken Meets with Leaders in Qatar and Israel- Hamas War; GOP Scrambling after Scalise Drops out of Speaker's Race; Defense Secretary Austin Arrives in Israel; Israeli Tanks on the Move near Gaza Border. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired October 13, 2023 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: House Republicans do not know where they are headed next. Next hour, they do know, physically where they will need to be, meeting behind closed doors again in search of a Speaker of the House. House Majority Leader Steve Scalise, he won the nomination amongst Republicans, but then dropped out of the race late last night, when it became clear that he could not get the 217 votes needed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA): I just shared with my colleagues that I'm withdrawing my name as a candidate for the Speaker designee. If you look at where our conference is, there's still work to be done. Our conference still has to come together, and it's not there. There are still some people that have their own agendas. And I was very clear, we have to have everybody put their agendas on the side and focus on what this country needs. This country is counting on us to come back together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: But it is not clear how they do that. This all leaves the house without a Speaker, still 10 days after Kevin McCarthy was pushed out. CNN's as Lauren Fox back on the Hill for us, joining us. Lauren, what is likely to happen today?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, all we know right now, Kate, is that lawmakers are going to meet at 10:00 a.m. over in the Longworth Office Building to have a conversation about whether or not they need to change their rules for how they elect a speaker.

One of the reasons for that is there is concerned that no one can get 217 on the floor and that going round after round in a messy battle would just not be very effective. So they are going behind closed doors to debate once again whether or not they should increase the threshold of how many votes you need to get in a secret ballot before you move on to that floor vote. So that is expected to go on for several hours this morning. After that we are going to be watching to see whether or not Jim Jordan reemerges as a candidate in this race for speaker. But there are already a number of members who have made clear they will not vote for Jim Jordan.

You heard yesterday from Representative Don Bacon from Nebraska who said, He doesn't want to reward bad behavior. There were a number of Jordan holdouts who would not vote for Steve Scalise. And there's this feeling that Jordan already lost behind closed doors and therefore he should not get to run and win the nomination this time around.

So there are so many questions right now another question is even if Jordan got in the race, would he be able to secure the votes? If he can't get them, who is next in line and how long is this process going to go on? You've heard from a number of members who argue that Patrick McHenry, his powers should be expanded at this point. Just given the fact there is work to be done on the House floor, not the least of which is giving Israel more aid that they may need. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. All right, Lauren Fox all over it. Let's see what happens in the coming, well, hour even. John?

BERMAN: All right. Joining us now is former Republican Congressman Fred Upton from Michigan. Congressman, how much do you miss being part of the Republican conference on Capitol Hill right now?

FRED UPTON (R) FORMER MICHIGAN REPRESENTATIVE: Well, let me just tell you, my wife and my grandkids are so excited that I'm here in St. Joe, Michigan, rather than back in D.C., witnessing this and missing the fun that they're having here in here in Michigan. But it's a mess back there. That's -- there's no question about that.

[09:35:00]

And it sure appears to me that it's going to languish into next week. In fact, I've heard some reports that a number of members have left for their districts even as far away as California. So even if the Republicans could coalesce behind one person that could get 217 votes, they don't have that many people in D.C. to actually vote until they return, which means next week.

BERMAN: How do you think it looks? You're on the outside right now? I mean, how does this appear to the world?

UPTON: You know, it's a mess. It really is a mess. And as I talk to people here at home, it's like a pox on both houses, which is why, I'm actually involved, to a degree, with no labels, a unity ticket. We need some bipartisanship back in D.C. to try and get things done. I mean, not only do we have Israel, we got Ukraine, and as well as the CR that expires literally a month from now.

So no action has been taken in the last couple of weeks. 10 days without a speaker. You can't even begin talks. You don't even know where the goalposts are going to be, trying to get something not only through the House, but get 60 votes in the Senate and get something that the President can sign.

So a lot of, particularly federal employees -- I mean, I talked to an air traffic controller just yesterday, they're worried. They remember the last shutdown that we had were essential folks, and obviously, air traffic control is essential. But they work without pay, it could be -- you know, last time it was like six, seven weeks before it got done. So there's a lot of uncertainty. And that will only build as we get closer to November 17.Without anyone that actually has got the reins to try and lead the charge.

BERMAN: Kevin McCarthy was booted with basically what was it seven or eight votes, 4 percent of the Republican conference. Steve Scalise was blocked with slightly more than that, but still a minority. He won the majority of the votes in the Republican conference. So what happens if you have this tyranny of the minority, running the show for Republicans in the House?

UPTON: Yes, that's the dilemma. It's actually -- the Republicans may change the rules today within the caucus as to who goes forward. You still -- the constitution still requires that you have to have a majority in the House, which is why we got two vacancies, that -- which is why 217 you have to have to actually become speaker if all those folks vote.

So that's why, you know, Jim Jordan, I think is going to put his name forward maybe today or tomorrow. He's not going to get 217 either, which is Lauren Fox just said, you may see someone like with great respect, a Patrick McHenry, who's the least -- speaker to a degree, but without a lot of authority. Maybe they can give them some authority. At least, let him be the speaker for 60 to 90 days. And --

BERMAN: Can I ask?

UPTON: -- try to get through this mess.

BERMAN: If Jordan somehow does win, does that reward this type of activity inside the conference?

UPTON: Yes, it does. And I think it's really -- I think, you know, maybe he'd get there majority within -- you know, he came, what, 99 votes last or couple days ago, to Steve Scalise's 113. So I think he might be able to get a majority, but he can't get a majority on the floor, he can't get to 217, which means you're going to look at Plan C or Plan B as they go forward in a couple of days.

But meantime, the clock ticks, 10 days with no speaker, 10 days with no action on these very, very important issues that confront the country today.

BERMAN: Meanwhile, enjoy your grandchildren. Former Congressman Fred Upton, we appreciate you being with us from Michigan this morning. Thank you, sir.

BOLDUAN: Never enjoyed the more on so many levels. All right.

We're going to show you some live pictures right now that we believe are coming in. These are pictures from Nevatim Air Base in Israel. Secretary Lloyd -- Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin is arriving there.

And what we're hearing from the pool of reporters who are traveling along with Secretary Austin, you can see obviously, the shot is getting fixed and getting set up. But what you -- we believe you're looking at is Austin is there to observe a U.S. aircraft. This is moments ago as they're walking.

The U.S. aircraft C-17 that has arrived carrying munitions from the United States for Israel. And that is part of this show of force and show of support. And as Secretary Austin had said in his remarks earlier, the U.S. support for Israel is iron clad. You can hear that in their words. And this is the physical manifestation of that, as you're seeing them walking towards what will be -- some moments ago -- was they're going to kind of have this display.

[09:40:00]

We could be hearing from Secretary Austin as well as he was really Deputy Minister of Defense afterwards. But as we're seeing, this is part of that show of force. Nevatim Air Base is where the support has been flown. And I believe this is the same airbase where we saw that cargo unloaded earlier this week with that first -- these are live pictures of Secretary Austin now.

This is where these munitions are being unloaded -- Nevatim Air Base. It's about 40 miles east of Gaza. This is just south of the West Bank. So we're going to continue watching this.

And we will also be bringing you more as we see it. We can see there's a lot of moving parts in this show of force from the United States in their support of Israel. Secretary Austin, waiting to see about to speak to cameras. Just listen in. Maybe --

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, it's going to be a little bit before they can get it unloaded. The press has been set up over there for you.

LLOYD AUSTIN, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: That's fine. I just wanted to say thanks to the guys that are doing the work.

BOLDUAN (voice-over): You can soon CNN's Jeremy Diamond, right there, trying to try to figure out himself if the Secretary is going to be speaking to reporters. Sounds like it's likely. But I believe we -- oh, wow, look at that. That's a C-17 right there, folks.

BERMAN (voice-over): You can put a lot of stuff in there. And that is what is being delivered right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right. What you're seeing right now is CNN's Erin Burnett, who is standing by, actually to believe, quite near Egypt and Gaza inside Israel on the border there. Erin, give us a sense where you are and what you're seeing? ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, John, I'll tell you what you're seeing right now. We're actually right near a staging area tank battalion that actually went in on Saturday morning right along that Gaza border were after the Hamas attack.

Some of those tanks actually are going to be driving by right now. I'm going to probably get covered in this. So just bear with me it's going to be really loud. OK. John and Kate, there's probably going to be another one. So I don't know how long you're going to want to take this. But I'll tell you what we saw.

This tank battalion had been in there Merkava Israeli tanks. There's another one is going to come here. All these guys are basically restaging and getting ready to go in. And we have seen today, along the border checkpoints a much, I would say, higher state of readiness than we've observed over the past few days.

I'm going to move back from this one just a little bit. OK. All right. I mean, it gives you a sense for the terrain here. And John and Kate, I'll tell you right now we're a few miles from the Gaza border. We've been all the way up and along this border, watching the state of readiness that you obviously can see right here.

We're also about 10 or so miles from the Egyptian border down here. So we've been all the way up and down that Gaza border and seeing the readiness today, sort of a mix of, obviously, full troops, like you see in this tank battalion, also reservists coming in who are getting ready to go in.

And I would say a higher state of readiness even at checkpoints, John and Kate, you know, helmets on, bulletproof vests on, they are ready to go. I had a chance to speak to one member of the IDF actually he was from Long Island, he had grown up there. He's been here the past four years. And he had been part of collecting bodies from one of the caboose just a few miles from where we are.

And, you know, I pause as I say it, and I know you all have -- we've all seen these images. But he was talking about how all these houses right there in the kibbutz they had safe rooms in the bottom. And you all have heard so much about how there's people would take shelter in them.

But he said when Hamas could not get into those safe rooms, they would then light the houses on fire. So he said what they found is a lot of skeletons that people have been, when they realized their houses were on fire tried to run out of the safe room and then they died in the fire.

So he said they're finding a lot of skeletons, a lot of houses are collapsed. He thinks they're going to find more. He talked about finding just charred bodies, children, and then in safe rooms that were still locked and intact, describing the gore and the horror that he saw just covered in blood, and still sort of speechless. And he said, they are ready to go, they are ready to go.

[09:45:00] And you can see an intensity. And as I said, sort of a rage and an anger, but a level of readiness here today that we have not seen in the past few days, as we do here, sort of a steady drumbeat of artillery around us going into Gaza, and then we can hear moments later, those impacts. I don't know if you heard that, but going out, and then you hear an impact in Gaza a few a few seconds later.

John and Kate, back to you.

BERMAN: Yes, we did hear that. And if you can stay with us for a little bit longer here, Erin. I can show people on the map here where Gaza is. This right here is Egypt, without revealing exactly where Erin is. In this area right here, you can see, not far from Gaza, not far from Egypt. It's in the southern Gaza region, Erin down here. It's North Gaza, where people are being told to evacuate from right now.

Is there a sense that these Israeli forces are moving toward what could be a ground offensive in the north?

BURNETT: Well, they are ready, and they are staging. And I think that's the best we can describe it. And I said the tank battalion you just saw two of those Merkava tanks behind me, they have been involved since Saturday afternoon. They said they went in around 3:00 o'clock. And as you know, those terror attacks started around 6:00, 6:30 in the morning. So they were among the first IDF forces to go in.

But there is a maps, when you look at sort of the map of my phone here -- sorry, it's covered in sand and dirt now. But when you when you look at maps of where they're sort of heavy, kind of -- that, obviously, is outgoing Israeli artillery, but incoming Hamas rockets. You can sort of see red zones where there's a lot of activity, and a lot of that is down here, a few kilometers from where we are.

And then a little bit further north near some of the kibbutz which were hit in the original attack, Nir Oz and around that area. So it's very active there, sort of around that southern area of Gaza. But the entire area, John and Kate, is completely militarized.

When you think about the small spaces we're talking about and nearly 400,000 reservists called up. You're going to use all that space. And I would describe it this way. They essentially created a buffer zone.

So right over the ridge from where we are, where that tank battalion where we were seeing all those soldiers and where those tanks just came from. You've got a checkpoint, and all the way along the border. So they've essentially created a secondary border out from Gaza that they've essentially tried to militarize.

One other point that I would say is, they're still dealing with what they say are active terrorist incursions. So one IDF soldier was telling me that when they go into the kibbutz, which were attacked, they found a house yesterday that was locked, and they thought that was strange. Why would this house be locked?

They called Israeli Special Forces who came there. They told me that there was a Hamas militant who had holed up inside, still there from the attack on Saturday, threw a grenade out. They say, three IDF members of the Special Forces were injured. Again, this is what I'm told by these individual IDF forces. And they were able to kill this terrorist.

But they still believe that there are active terrorists still inside some of these Kibbutzim in this buffer zone, right over the ridge that I'm describing to you.

BERMAN: That is interesting. Again, I have a map now up of this border fence, which spans the entire -- the entire border of Gaza, between Gaza and Israel. Erin, what you're saying there is that there may have been people who are part of the Hamas operation that stayed. Do the -- does the IDF think there are still people crossing back and forth at this point?

You know, Nic Robertson witnessed, what appeared to be some kind of a firefight. That was what on Monday, but its a few days since then.

BURNETT: Yes. So the short answer is, I am not sure. But I will tell you what they tell us. What they tell us is that they think there are some militants who are still there, right, like that militant, they said that they found yesterday in that house that was locked. So they think there's some of that.

There's also question marks about whether there are tunnels that could still have militants coming through. And that, obviously, I can't I can't confirm for you. But they do talk about the potential of that. And they have this fear that that could also be the case. So all of that is going on right in that in that buffer zone militarized area, where Israeli troops are gathering right now.

BERMAN: And just finally, Erin, and I'll let you go, because I know it can't be easy to move around right now where you are. But you talk about this area, being basically inside Israel, a militarized zone. To what extent are there still Israelis trying to go on with their daily lives in that area?

BURNETT: Well, that's a good question. And I can tell you just from one man we spoke to. He lives in one of the kibbutz which was so heinously attacked, Nir Oz, and he actually has been going in every day through the checkpoint. He's able to because he's a resident. And he's doing that, many of his neighbors are dead. Right? This is the kibbutz where I was telling you the IDF soldiers talking about blood in the safe rooms and skeletons.

This is his home, these are his neighbors, they're dead -- about a third of them they say. And he goes in every day to deal with the irrigation to try to keep the basic -- the basics of the kibbutz going. So he's essentially -- for him. It's a matter of identity and his life and death. So he comes out at night, cannot stay there, it's not safe. They do let him in during the day, most of the time, he said. And then he deals with the irrigation and the other things to keep what he says the basics essentials of what made that kibbutz his home going and then he comes back out.

[09:50:00] So I can tell you about that specific, that's anecdotal experience. But obviously, those towns are uninhabitable now and we've talked to five or six people from that kibbutz, and they are all staying places outside whether it's in Tel Aviv or other places around Israel.

BOLDUAN: And Erin, as you've been talking about, and as we've seen, you've been kind of -- you've been going up and down portions of the border with Gaza. Does it feel like a different posture? How do you describe how it feels, if it does, and what you're seeing amongst the IDF forces from yesterday to today, even?

BURNETT: From what our team has seen -- I'll describe the artillery drumbeat as steady as regular. But from what we've seen in the interactions we've had with IDF, it does feel at a higher state of readiness and alert today than it did yesterday. Small things, like I described, Kate. You know, today, at that those border crossings, they are helmets on, alert, all PPE, personal protective equipment on all of that. They are ready.

It's just a slightly elevated sense -- a sense of readiness, and a sense of I would say palpable anticipation. And also when you talk to some of them individually, a sort of very tight lipped rage and this cannot happen to us, and we will not accept it. And they're willing to say that and they are ready to go. So we would describe it that way.

Yes, it's a higher state of readiness, unclear what that means. It's unclear whether that means something is happening imminently or soon or what. But there is a shift as far as we've experienced it.

BERMAN: All right. Erin Burnett, we're loathed (ph) to let you go, because it's so great having you and you're giving us such great information in such this unique view. We will let you go do reporting. Just promise, if you see anything and get your shot back up, you come back with us right away.

BURNETT: I do. I do. I will see you all soon.

BERMAN: OK, Erin, thank you very much. Stay safe. And just to give people again, a sense of where Erin is. This is Gaza. This is the border with Egypt. Israel right here. Erin in this area down here, not far from Egypt, not far from Gaza. Watching tanks move. We saw three of them go by covering Erin in dust there. Sort of a remarkable moment.

All right, with us now. Military Analyst, Colonel Peter Mansoor. Colonel, I don't know -- I hope you were paying attention to what Erin was just saying and seeing there with those tanks going by. What do you think was happening based on your knowledge?

COL. PETER MANSOOR, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, the Israeli ground troops are obviously staging for an assault on Gaza. That means they need to move armor and equipment to the right staging areas, and get the soldiers ready, disseminate plans and orders and then get the fire support ready for the invasion, which I think will probably begin here in a matter of days. BERMAN: And again, this was the pamphlet that was dropped over Gaza this morning by the IDF telling people in Gaza -- the northern part of Gaza to evacuate south. You can see right here, this dividing line Wadi Gaza, a marshland right here. Some 1 million people being told to move south. What does that message tell you? We'll talk about whether or not it's feasible in a second. But the fact that the IDF was dropping those pamphlets?

MANSOOR: Yes, I think they've telegraphed their hand that they're going to take over the northern part of Gaza, about half the strip. And that would force -- they want the civilians out of the area, because non-combatant losses obviously would inflame world opinion against the Israel. But I don't think moving 1.1 million people out of the areas is going to happen.

Hamas does not want it to happen, because Hamas would actually like to see civilians killed by Israelis. And many of them just simply don't have the capability or anywhere to go even if they were able to move.

BERMAN: Again, we're talking about the population density here and here is the dividing line. And it's the most densely populated area of Gaza, the place they're being told to evacuate from with more than 25,000 people per square mile, particularly in Gaza City. That's three times the density of Los Angeles.

What would ground fighting in this area look like Colonel?

MANSOOR: Well we have a couple of examples in the last two decades, one would be the Battle of Fallujah in 2004. But, of course, if you remember the Battle of Fallujah, the U.S. troops were able to surround Fallujah and force the civilians to evacuate. So it was a cleaner battlefield, if you will.

[09:55:00]

The second and more likely, example is Mosul in 2017, or Raqqa, when the Islamic State was destroyed by a combination of U.S. airpower and Iraqi and Kurdish forces. Now, those areas were absolutely devastated by the fighting. And that I think is a more likely possibility going forward.

The Israelis will attempt to stay within the rules of war, and they will try to limit noncombatant combat losses, but it's simply not possible given the terrain and the strategic problem or the tactical problem facing them.

BERMAN: Colonel Peter Mansoor, thank you for sticking around and explaining all this to us. Be well. All the best sir. Kate?

BOLDUAN: All right. We're going to have much more from Gaza, from the Gaza border, from -- in Israel. We've got Tony Blinken traveling in the region. We've been watching the Secretary -- U.S. Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin in Israel as well showing their ironclad support for Israel.

And we're also seeing what is going to come in this call for evacuation of people in Gaza. We're going to take you back there next.

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BERMAN: All right. Over the last few hours, the Israel Defense Forces dropping leaflets over Gaza -- northern Gaza, telling more than 1 million people to evacuate south, to move to the southern half of Gaza. The spokesperson for the IDF told us last hour people need to flee as quickly as possible, so the Israeli Military can, in their words, deal with Hamas.

BOLDUAN: Hamas, however, as in response called on everyone in Gaza to stay in place, remain steadfast is how one spokesperson put it, infusing even more chaos and confusion into the humanitarian crisis there already and also creating even greater risk for the hostages that Hamas terrorists kidnapped in Saturday's attack and are holding now in Gaza.

We have seen men, women, children, some starting to move from the northern part of Gaza to the south, even walking South, carrying with them what they can. A huge question though is where will they go?

BERMAN: All right. Let's get right to Becky Anderson who is with us now. Becky is in Jerusalem, I believe. Becky, why don't you tell us what you're seeing there.