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Sources: U.S. Intelligence Warned Of Potential For Gaza Clash In Days Before Hamas Attack; Israel Tells 1.1 Million People To Leave Northern Gaza, Hamas Tells Them To Stay; House GOP Conference Meeting Now On Speaker Nominees; IDF Spokesman: "This Is Something We Cannot Stand". Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 13, 2023 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And I allude to the intelligence question because there is a disparity between the U.S. officials saying that Iranian leaders, for example, were surprised that Hamas carried out these attacks.

While Israeli intelligence says that Iran gave the green light to Hamas to carry this out.

JOSH ROGIN, COLUMNIST, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Right, well, the first thing I think we should note here we don't know what all the intelligence says yet. They're thinking clearly things are amiss. We have to wait to see what we -- who knew what and when.

I think there is a great possibility that certain Iranian figures were surprised, certain other Iranians were not surprised. And that could have played the disparity there.

When it comes to the escalation ladder, I think that's -- it is a game of deterrence. And when Iran and Hezbollah say, if you raze Gaza, we're going to open up the second front or when Iran's foreign minister said was the rest of the axis is going to open up a war on Israel. That is a threat.

And when the United States moves an aircraft carrier into the eastern Med, that is to deter that threat.

The truth is that these things have a pattern of escalating when you engage in brinksmanship, a tendency to push the limits. That's a wider war that everyone is trying to avoid. But nobody knows how to avoid it.

And it seems clear Israel is going to do some pretty extensive operations in Gaza.

And of course, they're worried about Israeli security. But Secretary Blinken, the Biden administration, they worry about a much bigger map. And that's kind of where you see the divide.

Of course, the administration doesn't want to tell Israel in public, hey, you better think about this. But you can be sure, in private, they're saying help us manage this thing from getting out of control.

And I don't think they're there yet.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Hagar, CNN also reporting that the U.S. intelligence community had at least two intelligence assessments that they provided to the Biden administration, based, in part, by the way, on Israeli provided intel, warning of an increased risk for a conflict, for a conflict between the Palestinians and Israel in the weeks ahead.

And then we saw what happened over the weekend, this horrible massacre.

There is a difference between being told, hey, something is cooking, and then being told something very specific. And 2020 is always hindsight.

But what are you thinking? And what kind of soul searching is this going to bring about?

HAGAR CHEMALI, FORMER SPOKESPERSON, U.S. MISSION TO THE U.N.: Well, just as here after 9/11, I expect a massive intelligence review in Israel. And of -- to identify all the mistakes and vulnerabilities and how they rectify that in the future.

But with this had -- in particular, it sounds more that they were talking about tensions increasing in general. And tensions have been increasing significantly.

Particularly, since Netanyahu took office last December. And that's because of a series of policies his government took, that were provocative things.

Like expanding settlements in the West Bank, killing a number of Palestinian militants and civilians. Also the raid on the Al Aqsa Mosque, things of that kind. And so tensions have been growing generally.

But the intelligence, the Israeli intelligence apparently identified that the major threats currently were coming from the West Bank and the northern border with Lebanon.

And the problem with that -- and by the way, all intelligence agencies do that. When you have certain threats every year or every few months, you identify where the major threats are.

You allocate resources based on that. You move people around. You focus your efforts or money on certain regions or individuals or groups or whatever.

And it is very clear that the border with Gaza, they had come to rely on the security system they set up in the south. And that a number of things fell apart that kind of caused this crash of dominos that led to this horrific terrorist attack.

SANCHEZ: Hagar and Josh, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us.

Still ahead, the desperate situation for civilians in Gaza, 1.1 million people told by Israel to evacuate their homes in the north, an order the U.N. has described as "impossible," and one that Hamas is now countering as well.

[14:34:13]

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Right now, a rapidly developing situation here on the ground in the Middle East. Israel Defense Forces say they have begun carrying out raids in Gaza, involving both infantry and armored forces.

Officials say they're searching for more than 150 hostages taken by Hamas a week ago.

The raids add new challenges for the more than 1.1 million Palestinians warned to evacuate northern Gaza. They have been told to move south. Homes in the north have already been cut off from electricity, fuel and water.

CNN's Nada Bashir has more on the growing humanitarian crisis going on in Gaza.

We want to warn you, some of what you will see is graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NADA BASHIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As dawn breaks in Gaza, now under bombardment by Israel for seven days, a sinister warning from the skies, pamphlets from Israeli Defense Forces telling all civilians in northern Gaza to evacuate southwards.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

BASHIR: "We're seeing our children killed right in front of us. They're starving us of food, of water, we have no electricity, nothing. This isn't a life.

And now they tell us we have to leave. But we don't know where we will end up.

[14:40:53]

Hamas leaders have called on civilians to remain steadfast and stay put, accusing Israel of engaging in psychological warfare. But families desperate for some semblance of security gather their belongings.

(HONKING)

BASHIR: And while they are unsure of what awaits them in the south, one thing is clear, there is no guarantee of safety wherever you are in Gaza.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

BASHIR: "It happened to our grandfathers, and now it is happening to us. We are being forced out. Gaza is being destroyed. Nothing is left. It is a catastrophe."

(EXPLOSION)

BASHIR: More than two million people live in a tiny, besieged Gaza Strip, still under a blockade enforced by Israel in 2007. More than half of those are now being told to move.

The Norwegian Refugee Council has characterized the evacuation order, which holds no guarantee of safe return, as an act of forcible transfer. In other words, a war crime.

Meanwhile, the U.N.'s Refugee Agency for Palestine says the scale and speed of the unfolding humanitarian crisis is bone chilling.

TAMARA ALRIFAI, UNRWA SPOKESPERSON: There are more than 1.4 million people in Gaza. These are ordinary Palestinians, who live in the Gaza Strip, with their families, including pregnant women, children, children with disabilities.

BASHIR: An ongoing siege mean access to food and safe water is quickly running out.

The U.N. World Health Organization warned that hospitals here have only a few hours of electricity each day, pushing Gaza's already crumbling health care infrastructure to the brink of collapse.

At the hospital, the bodies of those killed in the airstrike lay shrouded outside. There is, doctors say, simply not enough space in the morgue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

BASHIR: "They were all innocent civilians, women, children. The airstrikes came suddenly and destroyed all our homes, with children still inside. And now we don't even know where we can bury our dead. Enough, please, enough."

(EXPLOSION)

BASHIR: In less than one week, Israel has dropped more than 6,000 bombs on Gaza.

(EXPLOSION)

BASHIR: The equivalent to the total number of airstrikes carried out during the 2014 Israel-Gaza war, which lasted 50 days.

(SHOUTING)

BASHIR: And while there continues to be widespread condemnation of the collective punishment the people of Gaza are being subjected to --

(SCREAMING)

BASHIR: -- there is every indication that this war will only intensify.

And many here feel that the world has abandoned them.

Nada Bashir, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:46:58]

SANCHEZ: Republican House members have been locked behind closed doors now for roughly an hour and a half, hearing pitches from two members who put themselves forward to be the next speaker of the House.

Congressman Jim Jordan and Austin Scott vying to get necessary 217 votes to get the gavel. But whether either of them can is still an open question.

KEILAR: Let's talk about this with David Chalian, our CNN political director and the host of the "CNN Political Briefing" podcast.

We keep meeting like this.

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: All over again. Here we are.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Where is this headed?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I don't -- we'll learn where it is headed. Obviously, Jim Jordan heading into this vote, if you remember early in the week, had amassed 99 votes. So one might imagine he'll be able to get the nomination perhaps.

But as we just learned with Steve Scalise, that and a buck 25 might get you a cheap cup of coffee. That's about it. You still need on the floor the 217 votes. It is not clear yet there is a path for Jim Jordan on that.

But, guys, that's the immediate. You say, where are we going here? I think this is -- it is clearly a problem for the Republican Party and it clearly can be sort of displayed as a sideshow, but I don't think it is a sideshow.

I think we should heed what Congressman Mike McCaul said. You have China and Russia on a daily basis trying to undermine American democracy and this is what is being put on display. There is -- America's standing gets undercut with every passing day

that the country shows it is not able to actually even govern itself properly.

SANCHEZ: So, it is not going to be Steve Scalise. It's a tough road ahead for Jim Jordan and Austin Scott. Who else is there that can get to 217 votes?

CHALIAN: The answer is we don't know, right? I mean, Kevin McCarthy couldn't. That's why he was ousted. He wasn't able to do that. And I know there are some folks who still float his name as a possibility here.

There are other names out there that get mentioned. Like could Patrick McHenry, who is serving in this interim role?

Kevin Hearne of Oklahoma, who, when Steve Scalise was poised to become speaker, was going to make a play for majority leader. Is he a fallback? Right now, he's supporting Jordan.

Tom Cole is mentioned also at times as sort of a senior statesman. But there is nobody in this Republican conference right now who clearly has 217 votes.

Remember, that's because it is such a narrow majority. They only have four votes to lose if a Republican member is going to become speaker, on solely Republican votes.

KEILAR: Ron DeSantis said, you know, this is -- what a clown show, I think he said. Austin Scott was saying it looks -- makes us look like a bunch of idiots.

To your point, the world is watching and it is -- it is kind of embarrassing.

CHALIAN: It is embarrassing. There's no doubt. And it is, you know, one of our two major political parties just in complete disarray, inability.

They have the majority. What do you do with the majority? You govern.

I think it is all those things. But it is also a little bit more serious than that.

[14:49:59]

And I mean, this entire next year, the threat to American democracy, the strength of American democracy is going to be tested in this upcoming presidential election.

And this is not a good way to get started when you're trying to demonstrate that you know how to run a democracy.

SANCHEZ: It is not just foreign leaders watching. Also voters. To your point, a lot of those Republicans that helped them win a majority, in a tenuous position in their districts. CHALIAN: Imagine the Democratic ads that could be cut right now,

running as Republicans in very tough districts as their party tries to hang onto the majority about this, you know, clown-car situation that you have going on.

SANCHEZ: David Chalian, always appreciate your perspective.

CHALIAN: Sure.

SANCHEZ: Still ahead, update on the fighting in Gaza and what the Israeli response could look like in the hours and days ahead.

Stay with CNN. We're back in moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:55:12]

COOPER: Welcome back to our continuing coverage of the war in Israel.

Just yesterday, I spent some time with IDF spokesman, Rear Admiral Daniel Hegari, at the site of the music festival where more than 260 Israelis were slaughtered just six days ago.

I talked to him about what lies ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: How different is this fight going to be on the ground in Gaza? I mean, there have been incursions before into Gaza City. I know it's a tough place to fight.

REAR ADM. DANIEL HEGARI, IDF SPOKESMAN: Well, we'll do what we need to do in order to get this goal that ISIS won't govern Gaza.

And if any country here in the region next to us that hosts Hamas ISIS, they risk their own population. But also, they need to know if they interfere, if they will act against us, migrant -- (INAUDIBLE).

We understand completely what we are seeing now. We have no other place to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: This just in from Israel. Israel's prime minister has said, quote, "I'm telling you, it's only the beginning. I'm not going to give you additional details, but it's only the beginning."

Stay with us for CNN's special coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)