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Palestinian-American Trying To Get Family Out Of Gaza; How Complex System Of Hamas Tunnels Complicates War In Gaza; Rep. Jim Jordan Picks Up Key Holdouts In Bid For Speakership. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired October 16, 2023 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Then now, a second carrier group, the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower, will be headed to that region. I'm talking here until they start speaking English. Let's listen again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: You know our deep commitment to Israel's right, indeed its obligation to defend itself and to defend its people. And in that, you have -- you always had the support of the United States. Thank you.

YOAV GALLANT, ISRAEL DEFENSE MINISTER: Thank you very much, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Secretary, updates about the border?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right. All business from the U.S. Secretary of State, Antony Blinken meeting with the Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant. Did not take questions. Did not say much of anything other than the U.S. is firmly behind Israel as it prepares seemingly for a ground operation into Gaza. We're going to have much more. Our live special coverage continues right after this.

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[11:35:42]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Hundreds of thousands of civilians are fleeing for their lives out of Northern Gaza. My next guest is a Palestinian-American whose mother and sister have been stuck near the Gaza-Egypt border, the Rafah Border as it's known, trying to get out of Gaza. Mai Abushaaban is joining us now from Houston, Texas.

Mai, I hope I'm saying your name, right. You've been trying to get your family out, as so many have. Can you tell me what this has been like? I know it has to be just terrifying for you on the other side of things.

MAI ABUSHAABAN, PALESTINIAN-AMERICAN WHOSE FAMILY IS STUCK AT GAZA- EGYPT BORDER: Hi, Sara, good morning, I'm so sorry. You cut off in the beginning, so the last thing I heard you say was terrifying.

SIDNER: I was just asking you what it's been like for you to try and have contact with your family and to try and figure out how to help them get out, how this has been for you and for them there and Gaza.

ABUSHAABAN: So, as you mentioned, it truly has been terrifying not only for them living through the war not knowing whether they're going to live to see tomorrow, but it's also terrifying for us here. We've been trying really hard working with the State Department and local embassies in the region, but it's been really difficult. I mean, just this morning, they were expected to leave from the Rafah crossing point. But for the second time this week, they show up and it's closed, and no one is able to leave. So, it's this kind of like this false sense of hope that they're going to be saved and they're going to be on the -- able to put to the other side and they're just not able to.

SIDNER: Yes, I know that that's going to be frustrating. I do want to mention something too. We have just, in the last half an hour or so, received some video. We have a producer on the ground there in Gaza watching these trucks come in from Egypt into Gaza. They are filled with fuel, there are about five or six of them that have been able to come through that border.

So, clearly, if they wanted people to come through the border, they could let that happen. And so far, that has not happened. What do you -- what do you think about that? What do you make about it? Because clearly, if trucks can get through, people can too.

SIDNER: I think we might be having -- we might be having a little bit of a technical problem there as she's using -- you know, we all go through this with the zooms and the -- and the Skypes. At -- but as we wait for Mai to get reconnected with us, we are just talking about what has been happening in Gaza and just the absolute fear that is going on from families that are outside of Gaza trying to figure out how to get families to safety.

Mai, I don't know if you heard me, but I was just talking about the number of trucks that had been allowed in from Rafah -- the Rafah border from Egypt into Gaza. That has happened. But people aren't being led out. I'm just curious what your sentiment about that is.

ABUSHAABAN: Right. So, looking at statistics from the Palestinian health ministry and the United Nations, the hospital system in Gaza is on the brink of collapse. There are very -- there's a limited amount of resources to help the amount of people that are in need. Just yesterday, I was reading that over -- almost two thousand people have died. And more than 10,000 people have been injured and seven 70 -- 47 families have been wiped out from the civil registry in Gaza.

So, the healthcare situation is very dire, and very dire need for supplies, resources, and they're just not getting that right now. So, I'm praying for the people of Gaza. And I'm hoping that the international community can come together and provide the necessary resources they need to continue taking care of the innocent civilians that are suffering there. [11:40:06]

SIDNER: Mai, I know this is a really difficult time for you, and I'm really sorry that you and your family are going through this. We're looking at some drone video that we got in today of just the destruction in Gaza City. And that is a place that is going to be targeted for sure if Israel does end up doing what we believe is an imminent ground incursion there into Gaza.

I hope that you will stay in touch with us. Let us know what is going on. And if we can help in any way with our people on the ground, we will do that.

Mai Abushaaban, thank you so much for joining us on CNN NEWS CENTRAL. Kate.

ABUSHAABAN: Thank you so much, Sara.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you -- thank you so much, Sara. Coming up still for us.

It's known as the Gaza Metro, a huge labyrinth under -- of underground tunnels built by and used by Hamas. Here's a video of it from 2017. What this means now for Israel's looming ground incursion? We'll be right back.

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[11:45:19]

BOLDUAN: As Israel gears up for what it calls the next stage of this war against Hamas, the IDF tells CNN that they've so far taken out 10 Hamas commanders, vowing to decapitate the terror organization and wipe it off the face of the earth, as Israeli officials describe it. One of the biggest complicating factors in doing that is the complex network of tunnels that Hamas has built and operated since taking control of Gaza 17 years ago. I want to play for you what an IDF spokesman told CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. COL. JONATHAN CONRICUS, IDF INTERNATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: What makes it difficult is the fact that they're hiding underground. They're hiding in tunnels that they've built underneath Gaza, which the civilians are not allowed to use. That's where Hamas is hiding. And that is also why the next stage of military activities, I think we'll find a better solution to the fact that they're hiding underground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: CNN's John Miller joining us now. There's a big question -- a big factor in this is what is known and what is not known. The latest assessment -- and it's not really an assessment, it's a claim from Hamas itself as we're looking at a video from 2017 of a portion of a tunnel is Hamas claims that the network includes 500 kilometers, more than 300 miles of tunnels underground. What is known and not? I mean, clearly, it's a -- it's a problem.

JOHN MILLER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, the Israelis have destroyed some of these tunnels before, but they've also had them rebuilt, rerouted, repaired. So, there's going to be intelligence gaps about the tunnel network and the mapping of it. They may have good intelligence of what they believe it is. But once you figure out where the entrances are, which are hidden once you get down inside, there are a few good outcomes for firefights in a tunnel. It is literally built for the opposite.

BOLDUAN: Exactly. And here's just -- here's -- it's -- this is a depiction of it. It's not as simple as obviously, this looks. But this is kind of a diagram of how it's -- of what this can look like and what the tunnels do look like.

One of the things that is -- was astonishing for when I was looking -- when we were looking at this is just how deep some of these tunnels go and how that adds to the challenge in what they're going to do. I mean, that's why they call this the Gaza Metro. What can the United States provide to assist in this?

MILLER: Well, I mean, they're deep for a reason, which is they don't want the first bomb to fall to you know destroy a tunnel. So, now you would be talking about, you know, targeted bunker-buster munitions, the kinds of things.

BOLDUAN: To get it all -- yes, to get it all the way down there.

MILLER: But you're also talking about the possibility of is Hamas leadership down there, are command and control centers down there to the extent that there will be any command and control left. But more key to all of this, are there hostages down there. You know, we saw a piece of video of a narrow tunnel that --

BOLDUAN: Here's another -- here's another -- I mean, this is another look at it. This is narrow, too. But obviously, part -- portions of it are deeper, wider -- I mean, they have supply rooms, communication centers, that are deep down there.

MILLER: Right. And you know, I've seen the cartel tunnels between the U.S. and Mexican border. They're mostly meant for moving things around. But I was also in the -- you know the tunnels in Afghanistan, where you know the leaders of the Taliban had their headquarters.

And you know these had rooms. They had electricity. They had plumbing. They were extensive.

So, Hamas built these tunnels for multiple purposes. Not just moving fighters underground and avoiding surveillance, but for being able to operate. So, we know there are spaces down there that are operational and bigger.

BOLDUAN: And you mentioned Afghanistan. One of the big differences between the tunnels here and the tunnels, if you would say in the mountains of Afghanistan, is that these tunnels are under one of the most densely populated areas on Earth. I mean, Gaza City, when they weren't evacuating, it's like two million people are there. I mean, that's what makes it impossible.

MILLER: That's right. And that has been a challenge. But one of the reasons we've been seeing the Israeli government say people head South is, we're in a place where if they do a ground invasion, and they do it with hundreds of thousands of troops, they're going to be operating on the assumption that anybody who didn't flee South may be considered a combatant no matter what they're wearing or doing, which is why the message. And anybody in the tunnels is definitely going to be considered a combatant. So, there's a lot of challenges.

BOLDUAN: And this is exactly -- in the tunnels is where they fear and believe that the hostages are being kept and moved right now. It's great to see you, John. Thank you.

MILLER: You too.

BOLDUAN: John?

BERMAN: All right. There is no Speaker of the House this morning, but we're just getting word of some major developments in Jim Jordan's efforts to shore up the votes. A new whip count. Next.

[11:50:10]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, brand new this morning. We're just getting word that three key Republicans have now changed their minds and say they will vote for Jim Jordan to become the next House Speaker. California's Ken Calvert, Alabama's Mike Rogers, and Ann Wagner from Missouri. All now say they made this new decision after speaking with Jordan.

BOLDUAN: But no one knows yet how this one's going to go yet again. Tomorrow, Republicans are expected to take this thing to the floor, a vote almost two weeks after Kevin McCarthy was ousted by his fellow Republicans.

[11:55:03]

CNN's Manu Raju is on the Hill for us this morning. So, Steve Womack told me during the show that we'll know how he's going to vote when he cast that vote tomorrow. Is it clear yet where this thing is headed this time?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's definitely some progress that has been made from the Jordan camp by picking up these three key members, including Congressman Mike Rogers, who is -- someone who is allied with the defense hawks within the House GOP conference, had raised some serious concerns about Jim Jordan on dealing with key issues with defense policy. Jordan was able to allay those concerns, also winning over Ken Calvert and other Jordan skeptics. Ann Wagner had been perhaps one of the most outspoken Jim Jordan critics calling him a non-starter initially. Now, she is supporting him after she had -- what she said were productive conversations with them. The question is, can he still get to 217 votes? Remember, you can only lose four Republican votes on a party-line vote. And, at the moment, there are more than four Republicans who are opposed to him. But the -- what will Jordan go to the floor tomorrow and force that public roll call vote, put public pressure on these members who are opposed to him, force them to publicly say that they are voting for somebody else, and will they be able to withstand the heat from the right, from Jordan allies, including former President Donald Trump? All key questions as Jim Jordan looks to push forward here.

He's been meeting with his holdouts behind closed doors trying to convince them to come his way. And there will be a key meeting tonight where the House Republican Conference will meet in full. Will we get a clearer sense of Jordan's plans and how much opposition there is to his ascension? Guys.

BERMAN: Yes, they have become experts on meeting if not experts on actually getting to a speaker of the House. We will see what comes of it. Though, Jordan does appear to have some momentum now. Manu Raju, thank you very much.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And thank you all so much for joining us today. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "INSIDE POLITICS" is up next.

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