Return to Transcripts main page
CNN News Central
Israel Preps Next Stage Of War Against Hamas In Gaza; Gaza Humanitarian Crisis Grows As 500K Flee South; Rep. Jordan Faces Uphill Battle In Fight For Speakership; Interview with Rep. Russ Fulcher (R- ID); Inside Site Of Music Festival Attack Where 250 People Were Killed. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired October 16, 2023 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOAV GALLANT, ISRAELI DEFENSE MINISTER: But we are going to win for Israel, for the Jewish people, and for the values that both countries believe in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Here with us now, IDF spokesman, Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner.
Colonel Lerner, thanks so much for being with us.
In terms of the readiness of the IDF, we've seen some more than 300,000 troops massing on the border. What is the wait for? Is it a political decision to be made? Is there a training component right now going on along the border for some of the troops?
LT. COL. PETER LERNER, IDF SPOKESMAN: Anderson, good evening.
We are, indeed, at the end of day 10 since the brutal massacre of women, children, and men in the southern communities of Israel. And 199 people that we've confirmed today that have been abducted into Gaza by Hamas.
Indeed, we are, over the last 10 days, we have been striking Hamas extensively in widespread strikes against their entire organization, from the leaders at the top through the institutions that they use in order to finance, train, equipment the terrorists.
And, indeed, down to the terrorists themselves that perpetrated this brutal act and these brutal atrocities against our people.
The way forward, and as you rightly pointed out, over 300,000 reservists, many or the vast majority of them will be positioned on the border with Gaza. But also many of them positioned on the front with Lebanon for a potential uptick in violence there.
But, yes, we are training our forces. We need to be prepared for mobilization if the government instructs us to move forward. COOPER: In terms of the humanitarian situation on the ground, which
we've been covering, I talked to an official from the U.N. about trying to get supplies across the Rafah border, at the very least, into southern Gaza.
Do you have any opposition to having gasoline? What is the opposition to having gasoline, food, shelter, supplies moved into southern Gaza, given that's where hundreds of thousands of residents have moved down to?
LERNER: Anderson, the conflict is ongoing. Our job is to fight Hamas and destroy their capabilities.
The discussions taking place -- (INAUDIBLE) -- level and, indeed, will leave to diplomacy to the diplomats and the war fighting for the warriors.
Currently, I would say that the situation where we have seen and our action to evacuate people from the north of Gaza is a temporary humanitarian measure meant to keep people out of harm's way while we deal with Hamas.
And unfortunately, Hamas has shown time and time again that they will constantly put the people of Gaza in harm's way.
So indeed, there is, according to the information we have from our interlocutors in the international humanitarian organization community, there is food, there is now running water for the last day, into the south and there are shelters.
So, indeed, there are the bare minimum needs in southern Gaza. And indeed, war is a -- is a very complex issue, and it does have ramifications for civilians.
We recognize that, and that is exactly the reason why we said to people, you need to head south.
COOPER: I certainly understand warriors have a job and there's humanitarian officials.
But just from a military standpoint, I assume it would make your fight easier, the fewer civilians are in the north, which is I assume one of the reasons the IDF was encouraging people to move further south.
So just from a purely military position, wouldn't it make sense to allow as many supplies as possible, shelter supplies and the like, into the south of Gaza?
LERNER: In a strange course of events today, the U.N. Relief Agency announced that some of -- one of their compounds had been raided by Hamas and Hamas commandeered fuel and medical supplies.
If we allow, and if there are supplies that come in, who is to guarantee Hamas won't just take them? We have experience in this. This has happened in the past. I think they're looking at the political echelon and diplomatic
echelon and we'll be looking for assurances before any ceasefire, before the IDF is given any instructions to ceasefire.
[13:34:56]
In the meantime, as I said, we have, through our interlocuters, the understanding that there are supplies in the south and there are the means to facilitate the humanitarian situation on the ground.
We didn't start this war. It was Hamas that started this war. And we will win it.
Hamas has no right to continue to govern the Gaza Strip and utilize the Gaza Strip and the people of Gaza as a human shield in order to launch their attacks against us. They will be banished from the realm of existence.
COOPER: Lieutenant Colonel Lerner, appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
Stay with CNN's live special coverage of the war in Israel. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:40:08]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: A federal judge just imposed a limited gag order on former President Donald Trump, restricting what he can say about his federal elections subversion case.
He's now legally barred from attacking Special Counsel Jack Smith or his team or assailing potential witnesses.
While issuing the order, Judge Tanya Chutkan said Trump, quote, "does not have the right to say and do what exactly he pleases."
Trump's attorneys tried to argue a gag order would be an unlawful infringement on Trump's free speech rights as a presidential candidate.
But the judge disagreed, saying that Trump's, quote, "presidential candidacy does not give him carte blanche to vilify public servants for simply doing their jobs."
Brianna?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: So another critical week on Capitol Hill. Less than 24 hours from now, a House speaker vote. And tonight, a key GOP meeting behind closed doors to debate Congressman Jim Jordan's bid to be speaker.
The Republican nominee still lacks the 217 votes that he needs. And he spent the weekend chipping away at reluctant holdouts with some success here. He has flipped a few. But one GOP source tells CNN several top Republicans plan to vote no
during tomorrow's roll call vote.
Here's what Jordan told CNN's Manu Raju.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): It will go to the floor tomorrow. It's not about pressuring anybody. It's about we have to have a speaker.
You can't open the House and do the work of the American people and help our dearest and closest friend, Israel, if you don't have a speaker.
The only way to do this the way the founders intended is you have the vote tomorrow. We've set it for 12:00. And I feel real good about it.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Will you have more than one ballot if you don't get to 217 on the --
(CROSSTALK)
JORDAN: We're going to elect a speaker tomorrow. That's what I think is going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: All right. Joining me now is Idaho Republican Congressman Russ Fulcher.
Maybe you can answer that for me. Are you supporting Jordan? Will we see more than one round?
REP. RUSS FULCHER (R-ID): I think we will see more than one round. And -- but from the indication of what Congressman Jordan said, he is prepared to make sure that, by tomorrow night, we have a speaker.
And so if I understand correctly, we still have enough that would prevent that on round one, so I'm going to project we will have multiple rounds.
KEILAR: Why is he taking this to the floor if he doesn't have the votes yet?
FULCHER: Well, it's one thing to have a secret ballot in conference, Brianna. It's another thing to have a live vote in front of the world. And so everyone will need to stand up, do a roll call vote, and then we know for sure exactly where everyone is.
It's also more difficult, as a Republican, to vote no. I think that's one of the reasons why Congressman Jordan is pursuing this path.
KEILAR: So I mean, it sounds like we're headed for another chaotic -- I think I'm being generous with that adjective -- process like we saw with Kevin McCarthy being elected speaker. He ultimately won. No guarantee that happens with Jordan. Would you say that's fair that we're headed for a chaotic process like
that?
FULCHER: I think so. But you need to understand kind of the root of the issue, at least in my opinion, on why this is coming around.
And we all know there's a philosophical divide between Republicans and modern-day Democrats with their agenda and their thought process.
The same carries over to leadership. By our very nature, Republicans tend to be independent. We tend to be more self-sufficient and more pro-liberty minded and all that.
The modern-day Democrat, on the other hand, is a little bit more compliant, suited to big government situations and even to leadership.
I am not surprised that you see conflict when there is Republican leadership at bay. We're all kind of independent and that's how this plays out, and one of the reasons you see the conflict that you do with the Republicans.
KEILAR: I hear what you're saying. But there's a difference between being a big-tent party and a circus-tent party. Are you worried about how this makes America look chaotic and weak on the world stage?
FULCHER: Not just am I worried about it but there's urgency as your previous story pointed out.
We have the situation in Israel. We have our open southern border, which I believe greatly puts Americans at risk because we don't know who is coming in. We have the inflation issues. We have appropriations.
So we have to get our act together. I think that's going to happen tomorrow night. It's not going to be pretty, Brianna, but I think we will get it done.
This is the, to coin the phrase or to mimic the phrase, the making of the sausage. And you're seeing it play out right here.
KEILAR: Yes, we certainly are.
The Senate -- you mentioned Israel. The Senate is back this week. You had Majority Leader Schumer saying, he and Minority Leader McConnell favor passing Israel and Ukraine aid together.
[13:45:01]
Is that dead on arrival in a Jordan-led House?
FULCHER: I believe that it is, and rightfully so. There are two unique circumstances.
With Israel, we have a very longstanding ally with a Memorandum of Understanding with the defense package that's been there for decades. We've got a very established democracy in that Middle East. With Ukraine, totally different situation. We've already sent $113
billion, I believe, to them. There is a -- there always has been questions about just how democratic their government is.
Totally different situation that needs to be carried out and evaluated on their own merits independently.
KEILAR: I also want to ask you, Mike Rogers, obviously, a key Republican, who flipped to support Jordan over the weekend, said they had a couple conversations.
And they agreed on the need for Congress to pass a strong defense authorization bill, appropriations to fund our government's vital functions and other important legislation like the farm bill.
Should we take that to mean that Jordan is assuring moderate Republicans that he is not going to let the government shut down next month?
FULCHER: Yes. If you look at the Continuing Resolution that Congressman Jordan supported, and that I did, too, the mandatory spending was held intact.
You had your Social Security, your Medicare, your defense, that was all held intact. Veterans spending was untouched. The cuts came in other areas. It came across the other bureaucracies, the other agencies.
By the conversation with Mr. Rogers, I think you got an indication where a Speaker Jordan would be, and that's going to prioritize the things that are --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: I asked about the shutdown.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Will -- I asked about the shutdown. Is he assuring moderates that he will not let the government shut down next month? Because that is not what you're saying there?
FULCHER: No, I don't think so either. I think that shutdown is going to be on the table.
Let's face it, we are a very thinly led majority in the House of Representatives, versus a majority in the Senate, and, of course, in the White House, on the opposing party with an opposing agenda.
So I think that shutdown is going to remain on the agenda.
KEILAR: Congressman Russ Fulcher, thank you so much for being with us.
FULCHER: Thank you.
KEILAR: Israeli Defense Forces took CNN's Anderson Cooper to visit the site of the Nova Music Festival massacre. We have his report from there next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:52:06]
COOPER: We continue to learn new details about exactly what happened during the terror attacks here in Israel on October 7th.
In particular, what happened at the Nova Music Festival, which was the single deadliest attack that day. More than 260 partygoers and others were killed there by Hamas gunmen.
Here is some of what we now know happened there.
And we want to warn you, some of what you will see and hear is disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): The music was playing, the dance floor packed when the rockets began. Just 3.3 miles from the border with Gaza, it didn't take long before Hamas gunmen arrived.
Some partygoers were able to get to their cars, but many were killed before they could get away.
REAR ADM. DANIEL HAGARI, ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES: They were here with a machine gun.
COOPER: Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari, a soldier all his life, has never seen anything like it.
HAGARI: This is a massacre scene. I don't have any other recall of memory in the history of Israel, since it was established, of this kind of event.
COOPER: The bodies and body parts of the dead have been removed, but people's possessions are strewn all around. The carnage is clear, burned-out cars, bullet holes, blood stains on seats.
From some cars the IDF has retrieved dash cam videos that show Hamas gunmen roaming the site for hours, shooting freely.
This one shows a bloodied hostage being led away. And under the car, you can see another man hiding. He moves slightly, then stops. A gunman runs right up to him and shoots him point-blank in the head or upper body.
HAGARI: I don't know how people can explain this. I cannot -- I don't have the words to explain it. And then running away with -- on motorcycles, with girls together.
COOPER: Fleeing east across open fields was the only way out for many, but they were easy targets. Others sought safety in nearby bomb shelters. This is dash cam video of a Hamas gunman tossing a grenade into a
shelter. When a man runs out trying to escape, they fire on him repeatedly.
(GUNFIRE)
COOPER: In another shelter, a few miles north of the festival site, about 30 people tried to hide. A man named Noam Cohen recorded inside.
(SHOUTING)
COOPER: You can hear the panic in their voices, asking what's going on, are there Israeli soldiers nearby?
(SHOUTING)
COOPER: We aren't going to show you what happened next.
Cohen says Hamas gunmen repeatedly toss grenades into the shelter. People inside were blown apart. It's one of the most gruesome videos we've ever seen.
(SHOUTING)
COOPER: This is some of the aftermath.
Noam Cohen survived hiding under body parts. That's him terrified, but alive.
[13:55:04]
We found the shelter in the town of Alumim yesterday evening. Someone had put a curtain up over the doorway, but nothing could hide the smell as you entered.
My cameraman, Neil Hallsworth, who's experienced a lot of war, began to retch, and had to step outside.
(RETCHING)
(on camera): There's bloody handprints on the wall. There's blood smeared on the walls. See, probably these are either bullet holes or from the grenades that were thrown in here.
(voice-over): Body parts have already been collected from here, but blood-soaked clothes and shoes remain.
(on camera): This looks to be a bloody handprint.
This shelter is no more than 15 feet long, maybe five and a half, six feet wide. The idea of so many people packed in here, standing shoulder to shoulder, terrified, screaming, it's incredible that anybody was able to survive.
(voice-over): There are other shelters like this, other tragedies still to be discovered. The full horror of what happened here is just starting to come to light.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
