Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Blinken, Netanyahu, War Cabinet Sheltered In Bunker; Gaza Humanitarian Crisis Grows As 500,000 People Flee South; Federal Judge Issues Limited Gag Order Against Trump; U.S. Mounts Effort To Head Off Wider Middle East War. Aired 3-3:30 ET

Aired October 16, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Egypt is closed.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Among those who are stranded, more than 250 American citizens and their families. U.S. Officials are pushing Egypt to open the Rafah Crossing to let aid and evacuations through, Anderson?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Here in Tel Aviv, Secretary of State Antony Blinken is back holding high level meetings. We may be hearing from him soon. We'll bring you any remarks, of course.

I want to get to our global CNN coverage with Jeremy Diamond in Jerusalem, and Natasha Bertrand at the Pentagon and Becky Anderson is here with me in Tel Aviv.

Jeremy, last hour, Antony Blinken, the secretary of state, took cover in a bunker alongside Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for about a few minutes, as I understand, as air raid sirens went off. What are you learning about what's come out between them today?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. Secretary Blinken has been meeting with the Israeli prime minister over the last nearly three hours now at IDF headquarters in Tel Aviv. During that time, we have heard not one but two air raid sirens going off in Tel Aviv, as you are very well aware, Anderson.

We know that at least during that first instance that the secretary of state and the Israeli prime minister went to a bunker for about five minutes before emerging and continuing their discussions. I would assume that the same situation happened just minutes ago when those air raid sirens went off once again. Because as far as we know, secretary of state and the Israeli prime minister are still there having those meetings.

During this day, we've seen air raid sirens going off in Tel Aviv at least three times, I believe. Also, sirens here in Jerusalem. Both of those locations are typically less frequently the site of rocket attacks from Hamas. We see those typically much closer to the Gaza Strip, so it's always quite notable when they do go off in Tel Aviv as well as in Jerusalem, effectively the central Israel area. The Secretary of state is in Israel right now after a week of shuttle diplomacy between Israel and several Arab countries in the Middle East. He has gone to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Egypt, all of this aimed to try and prevent this Israel-Hamas conflict from escalating into a wider regional war.

What he's also trying to do is to try and allow the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza and also to try and get American citizens who are trapped in Gaza to be able to exit the Rafah Crossing into Egypt.

There's been some conflicting information over the last several days about when that Rafah Crossing would open. U.S. officials believe that it would be open perhaps even Saturday, telling American citizens in Gaza to head down there in the event that crossing opened. As of yet, though, no U.S. citizens, it seems, have been able to get out.

There were some conflicting reports about whether fuel was able to get into Gaza earlier today, but clearly all of us - the secretary of state's meetings today focus around that humanitarian issue as well, of course. We have to know the fate of those hostages, 199 hostages believed to be held by Hamas, 20 of whom at least are believed to be American citizens as well.

COOPER: And Natasha, some Americans have already arrived in the U.S. from Israel. I understand others left on a cruise ship today. Talk about the evacuation efforts and the Pentagon's role.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, Anderson. So the U.S. government, they have been assisting American citizens who want to leave Israel to do so. Just this morning there was a cruise ship that the U.S. government actually chartered to get U.S. citizens who want to leave from Haifa to Cyprus and then onward by chartering flights for those who were unable to make their own accommodations.

So that is one way in which the U.S. government is helping citizens flee. But at this point there is no active U.S. military role here in terms of a noncombatant evacuation operation as such, the kind that we saw, of course, in Afghanistan just a few years ago when there was a massive military effort to kind of airlift people out. That has not happened yet because according to the U.S. government, according to the White House, they simply have not seen the kind of demand signal from U.S. citizens currently in Israel who are trying to leave in large numbers.

But look, that does not mean that the Pentagon is not planning for such a scenario. We are told that the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit is preparing for the possibility that they might have to deploy closer to Israel to help support this kind of large scale evacuation if there's such an order is made.

That is part of these Marines' mission essential tasks. It's a rapid reaction force and they are preparing for that order if it comes down for them to support and provide humanitarian assistance to a very large group of people. Now, of course, none of this really explains how the U.S. government is going to help get those 250 Americans who are in Gaza who are trying to leave out of out of Gaza.

That really remains to be seen because, of course, you can't just place a cruise ship there on the side there.

[15:05:01]

So that is something that they're still struggling with. But the U.S. military pretty much on standby and ready to deploy assets if that order comes down, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes. And Becky as we've been covering, I mean, for civilians in Gaza, the situation increasingly dire.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: I spoke a couple of hours ago to a Palestinian American. He's 55 years old, has two kids, he's married, he's lived in Gaza for years. He grew up in Gaza and he's a translator.

And about three o'clock in the morning, a day into the Israeli demands that people evacuate from northern Gaza, he did because there was bombing all around his apartment block in Gaza. He went with friends. He has a cabin in the Gaza Valley, which is not actually that far a drive from Gaza City, but that's where they've been told to go. Get down into the south.

There are 50, 50 people, including 20 children, now in this small cabin all together. They can hear the fighter jets going across. They are - he said to me, explained it as saying, we are literally down to fumes as far as fuel is concerned. That means they're going to struggle with water because they haven't got the generator to run the water. They're very low on food supplies.

And I said, what are you doing with the kids? I mean, how are the kids? And he said, look, we're distracting them. They've actually had a birthday party for one of his daughters who's nine years old. He said, all we can do is just distract them. But he is really very desperate.

COOPER: As many as 500,000, perhaps more, people have heeded the warnings and moved south. Hamas was telling people not to leave, but a lot of people have. The question is what sort of set up is there for them.

ANDERSON: Yes.

COOPER: I talked to a U.N. official who said that there are equipment for shelters and the like that they want to get in, hasn't been able to get in.

ANDERSON: All sitting on the Egypt side of the border at Arish. Now, I was told today by the U.N., the Egyptians are working really, really hard to ensure that they can accommodate the sort of scale of operation on the Egyptian side of the border, the WHO, the U.N., an enormous amount of agencies, the UAE have flown an enormous amount of aid, and Jordan has flown in a lot of aid. We're talking fuel, medical supplies from the WHO, food aid. But it's getting it in - you've been reporting on this sort of this conflicting news that we're getting about whether that border will open for incoming supplies, which is massively important. The next thing is, will it open for outgoing people.

COOPER: It is stunning, just even for American citizens in Gaza, that we're now nine days in, I think, and that they have still not been able to get out.

ANDERSON: Absolutely. And look, the Egyptians are - they've talked about a red line, as have the Jordanians, about the slippage of Palestinians from Gaza into Egypt and then possibly into Jordan. The Sinai Desert is very restive. It is a very, very big security spot for the Egyptians, and they are very nervous about what would happen if an enormous amount of people - they can't accommodate them, basically, is what they're saying.

But it's - it gives the impression that they're not being sort of accommodative here at a really tough time.

COOPER: Well, they don't want ...

ANDERSON: That really isn't the point.

COOPER: They don't want hundreds of thousands ...

ANDERSON: Absolutely.

COOPER: ... of residents of Gaza.

ANDERSON: But can they open for the U.S. and Canadian nationals ...

COOPER: Right.

ANDERSON: ... who we know are trying to get out, that's obviously something that is being worked from behind the scenes and a massive priority ...

COOPER: Yes.

ANDERSON: ... for Antony Blinken.

COOPER: Becky Anderson, thanks so much.

Joining me now is retired Army Brig. Gen. Steve Anderson.

General, appreciate you being with us.

Do you expect Israel to announce when its ground forces have begun to enter into Gaza? I mean, in the past, they generally have once it's already begun. What do you think that it will look like?

BRIG. GEN. STEVE ANDERSON, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, thank you, Anderson, for having me. And I would certainly expect them to announce it. I don't think it'll be a big secret. I mean, we've got so much media on the border right now. But I would urge them to exercise some restraint here. I mean, there's a lot of saber rattling. A lot of people come out of the net. I understand the motivation of revenge, the horrendous attack against the Israeli people by Hamas. But they need to exercise restraint. I do not believe that they need to go rushing into the urban environment. I, quite frankly, think that Iran would like nothing better than to see Israel bogged down in an urban fight in a place like Gaza City.

Anderson, you no doubt remember Fallujah in Iraq and Ramadi in Iraq and what - how difficult it was in that kind of environment. I submit to you that Gaza City is going to be like Fallujah on steroids with hundreds of - perhaps, hundreds of kilometers of tunnels, at least according to Hamas, all these underground tunnels. And then all, of course, maybe perhaps a half a million human shields still in the Gaza City area.

So the blockade is working. We're seeing evidence of that. People are complaining that they're not getting the food and the water and the fuel, the electricity they need. They're putting some hurt on the Palestinian people. And hopefully that will yield more human intelligence, more information about what's going on, on the ground, and more help to the Israelis in terms of intelligence or in order to locate those hostages and to locate the Hamas leadership that they need to take down.

[15:10:10]

COOPER: How difficult is, I mean, fighting in tunnels with booby traps, I mean, I've read accounts of tunnel warfare during the Vietnam War around Cu Chi. But those seem pretty primitive tunnels by comparison to what Hamas has.

S. ANDERSON: Yes, Anderson. My first sergeant when I was a young lieutenant was - had been a tunnel rat in Vietnam. And in those days, they send you down a hole with a flashlight and a .45 and say, have a nice day.

But no, these are very complex, very, very different - a much, much different situation. It's more like an underground metro system is the way to think about it. I mean, we've seen some evidence of that. They have shafts that go into buildings. They can pop out in any number of places.

It's going to make this fight, which was already a really, really tough fight fighting in an urban environment, it's going to make this really, really difficult. So they've got to take that into consideration. There's things they can use to - they're going to - there's lots of innovation and technology, perhaps that they can use to help them down there.

But again, the Israelis understand they're motivated to seek revenge, but they need to show restraint. They need to continue to apply the noose that they've applied, tighten their grip on Gaza, put the pressure internally, continue to with the blockade and make - set conditions for an appropriate attack into Gaza City when the time is right. COOPER: From a military standpoint, let alone a humanitarian standpoint, but from a military standpoint, isn't it in Israel's best interest to have as many residents of Gaza in the south and to enable supplies and shelter for those residents in the south to keep people staying in the south?

S. ANDERSON: Absolutely, Anderson, could not agree more. What I would recommend that in terms of a tactic, in terms of an operational approach to this, cut the country in half. When they do attack into Gaza, go straight for the Gaza power plant, which is about 10 miles away, cut the country in half and allow all the civilians that are in the north to come down through the south. And of course, check them all out, make sure they don't have weapons, make sure they're not bad guys and whatnot. And aid as much as they possibly can in the evacuation of civilians from the Gaza City area. Set up camps, use the World Health Organization.

I mean, when I was in Iraq, I set up camps all over the place 15, 16 years ago in Iraq. They need to set up camps, obviously, can take care of these refugees that are - be coming down. But yes, they've got to get as many of them out of there. They've got to tell them, look, you guys are hungry, your children don't have medicine, come south, cross through the border, cross through our, essentially, our checkpoints and move south to get your family taken care of.

Motivate the people to come south and then they can take on the leadership of Hamas and actually execute the kind of attacks into the city and the location of the hostages like they want to.

COOPER: Obviously, given the complex political and the history in this region, there's a lot of Palestinians who doubt they would be able to return to their homes in the north, that this is part of an effort to move them out once and for all. So that is obviously in play in people's minds here.

Gen. Anderson, I appreciate your time.

CNN's Special Live coverage continues from the region in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:47]

KEILAR: A federal judge today imposing a limited gag order on former president, Donald Trump, after he unleashed a series of attacks on prosecutors. In her ruling, Judge Tanya Chutkan said Trump "does not have the right to say and do exactly what he pleases."

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is joining us now from outside of the U.S. District Court in Washington.

Katelyn, what more can you tell us about what was decided here?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Brianna, what happened today in court was Judge Tanya Chutkan was reacting to things that Donald Trump has already said since he has been a criminal defendant, in this case related to January 6th, this federal indictment. And as a criminal defendant, the judge found that she can place restrictions on him, including on his First Amendment abilities to speak freely, even if he's campaigning for president.

The First Amendment is not absolute, was something that she said. And so what she did was she put some narrow procedures in place or narrow orders in place that restrict what Trump is allowed to say as this criminal defendant so that the judge can maintain some integrity for the trial, protect the jury pool and protect witnesses and others in this case.

The specific things that she responded to was that Trump had posted about the judge's clerk in New York in a civil trial. She reacted pretty strongly to that, even though that wasn't this case. Also that he had called the special counsel's office prosecutors thugs, and that he had suggested that Gen. Mark Milley, who could be a witness here, called to testify, that he suggested that he should be executed and also had been posting about Mike Pence, Bill Barr, some other witnesses.

And so what the judge did here is, she said he can say whatever he wants about Joe Biden, who he's running against the Biden administration generally, even the Justice Department generally, and people in D.C. who are very possibly called as jurors. What he can't do is say specific things about the prosecutor's office, the prosecutors working on this case, others working on this case, the court, their staff and those potential witnesses.

And Brianna, that does include Mike Pence running for president against Donald Trump. Donald Trump can't talk about Mike Pence and what he did on January 6th that is potentially part of this case.

[15:20:03]

That is covered.

It's very, very likely that Trump's team will appeal and will want that appeal to move fast. But this is something that the judge has done today and that Donald Trump could face severe sanctions if he doesn't follow these court orders as he awaits trial in March.

KEILAR: He could talk about other things related to Mike Pence politically if he wanted to though, right, Katelyn?

POLANTZ: That's right. And the prosecutor in this case, they - Molly Gaston was a prosecutor. They were the ones making the ask and they said, this is a small fraction of the restrictions that we want to be able to put on what he says on the campaign trail. There is so much that Donald Trump is able to speak about on the campaign trail.

But related to Mike Pence, it's just what Pence would have been privy to on January 6th that he could be testifying about that's already in the indictment. That's where the restriction is. It's not on him attacking Pence more generally.

KEILAR: All right. Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much for the very latest there. Boris?

SANCHEZ: U.S. leaders are mounting an urgent effort to prevent Israel's war against Hamas from escalating into a broader conflict. Today, Iran's foreign minister called on Israel to stop the bombardment of Gaza, warning the likelihood of this war spreading to other fronts could become "unavoidable."

Secretary of State Antony Blinken is back in Israel again today for another round of meetings with top Israeli leaders. Here in the United States, President Biden postponed a trip to Colorado to focus on national security meetings.

Let's get some perspective now from Susan Glasser. She's a staff writer for The New Yorker.

Susan, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us. President Biden warned Israel against a military occupation of Gaza in a 60 MINUTES interview. Do you anticipate that Israel can eliminate Hamas altogether without having an extended presence in Gaza?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I think we might be at some point in the future, once again, arguing over the question of what is exactly an occupation and how long would that constitute. Actually, Israeli officials have already said they don't have any plans to reoccupy Gaza.

Remember, of course, that up until 2006, 2007, when there was an election in Gaza, which Hamas won, and then it took over, Israel left. It had occupied Gaza for many years. So I don't think there's much appetite on the part of Israel to reoccupy Gaza. And yet it's very hard to understand, frankly, what comes after the military part of this operation in response to that horrific Hamas attack.

SANCHEZ: Yes, in that 60 MINUTES interview, Biden also reiterated a lack of clear evidence, according to U.S. Intelligence, that Iran was aware and involved in the initial attack by Hamas. That does not align with what CNN is hearing from sources inside Israeli intelligence who say that Iran essentially gave the green light and helped proxies, not just in Gaza, but also in Lebanon. How do you read that?

GLASSER: Well, first of all, I do anticipate that over time, we will learn much more about the planning and financing of this attack, who knew what and when. Israel has a history of launching major investigations when there are intelligence failures, and this is one of the biggest intelligence failures we've ever seen on the part of Israel. So I imagine there will be full investigations. More information will be coming out.

But in a big picture sense, of course, it's important to remember that Iran has been a longtime funder of Hamas, supporter of it. In many ways, the group would not exist, along with other terror groups in the region were it not for the sponsorship of Iran.

So again, there's so much to learn about the specifics of this. But the bigger picture right now is this urgent effort on the part of U.S. diplomats and others to try to prevent a broader regional war from breaking out right now. And that's not at all certain what will happen.

SANCHEZ: Yes, and in that effort, the United States has sent two carrier strike groups to the region. There is obviously a presence in the Mediterranean. There is an expanded U.S. presence in the Strait of Hormuz, very close to Iran. What do you make of the way the administration has handled the potential for an expanded conflict so far?

GLASSER: Yes, I do think that a lot of what their efforts are directed at right now are sort of signaling to Iran and other actors in the region to not escalate wherever possible. Remember that Israel has said it will go into Gaza. It appears to be preparing a ground invasion there to eliminate Hamas as a threat to Israel. But that is not the only threat and there is the prospect that Hezbollah in the north, based in Lebanon, could start to join in, in the fighting.

And I think that's the scenario, one of the main reasons you have not one, but two carriers of the U.S. in the region right now. And then there's the diplomacy in terms of the large number of hostages that are still being held by Hamas.

[15:25:02]

I saw earlier today Israeli - officials put that number at 199 hostages. We haven't heard very much that are still being held by Hamas. I saw earlier today, Israeli officials put that number at 199 hostages. We haven't heard very much for understandable reasons, perhaps about their fate, but it's been nine days already that they've been in captivity and that complicates any military or diplomatic solution right now.

SANCHEZ: Further complicating the situation, Susan. The dysfunction in Washington, we can't ignore what's happening in the House of Representatives right now. What do you think it says to the world that the House of Representatives remains in disarray, that they can't come to a consensus on something so rudimentary as a Speaker of the House?

GLASSER: It is a remarkable turn of affairs, isn't it, Boris? I mean, look, it was the Republican Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Mike McCaul of Texas, who said the other day, we know what the message is that we're sending to the rest of the world about our own dysfunction. This is something that allies and adversaries see very loudly and clearly.

And for those who aren't aware, not only is this unprecedented in American history that Republicans would oust a Speaker of the House in the middle of a term like this, this is just without a script, but they actually cannot even do any business in Congress until they can get themselves a leader.

So it's almost two weeks and counting since they threw out Kevin McCarthy, just a small number, eight Republican representatives were able to do that. We'll see if they can come up with a Speaker this week.

SANCHEZ: Yes. We're supposed to see a vote tomorrow. We'll wait and see if it happens.

Susan Glasser, thanks so much for the time.

GLASSER: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Hundreds of thousands of Israeli troops are gearing up for the next stage of this conflict. CNN is getting an inside look at how they're training. We'll show you when we come back.