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Israel at War; Hamas to Permit Red Cross Access to Hostages Urged by Biden; Conversation of Two Hamas Members Intercepted by IDF Allegedly Discussing Misfiring Islamic Jihad Rocket Onto Gaza Hospital; Interview with Spokesperson for the Israeli Prime Minister Tal Heinrich; House to Vote on Speaker as Mideast Reels From Hospital Strike. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired October 18, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: How they're going to react to hearing the president's comments from Tel Aviv today?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think the reactions will not be positive. This will be seen as a full-throated endorsement of Israel and of Israel's comportment over the 10 last days, which obviously Arab countries have denounced. I think there will be a lot of talk about what wasn't said. There was no call for a restraint. There was no call for a ceasefire.

It's important to remind viewers that the leaders of these Arab countries have many young people who are now impassioned and outraged and upset and are taking to the streets. And so, they have to be seen as taking a hard stance, as supporting the Palestinian people, they are also trying just like President Biden to thread the needle, if you will.

He did say, as you mentioned, that there has been some agreement on the Israeli side to allow the passage of aid into Gaza with the proviso that Hamas does not divert that aid, but he also said that he hoped that would happen as soon as possible with no real clarity or sense of when that might be. And I agree with David that he did issue, as well, some gentle warnings to Israel after the first half of the speech which was all about this remarkable display of solidarity with Israel. He said, we have felt that rage after 9/11. We learned from mistakes that were made after 9/11.

I believe his quote was, while you feel that rage, don't be consumed about it, and make sure you have clarity about your objectives. That is obviously urging Israel's leaders to think very strategically and very clearly about what comes next.

Everybody has been waiting for quite some time now for this much- anticipated ground invasion. There are very real questions, I think, being asked by world leaders from many different countries about what that looks like, what the tangible result would be of that. The Israelis have said they want to, essentially, dismantle and uproot Hamas once and for all, but still questions remain. How do you go about doing that? Who steps in to fill the void afterwards? We have heard previously President Biden say in an interview on "60 Minutes" that he does not think it would be a good idea for Israel to try to reoccupy Gaza. And so, I think just a subtle warning that now is also a time to take a deep breath and think very, very clearly about what the next moves might be and what the ramifications of those might be. And also, a very stern warning, presumably to Iran, to Hezbollah, to others in the region who might be watching this moment, he said who might be thinking of attacking Israel, he said, "Don't. Don't. Don't." Sara.

SIDNER: Yes. Some, incredibly salient points from you there. Clarissa Ward in Ashkelon, Kaitlan Collins here in Tel Aviv, and David Chalian in Washington, thank you to you all.

Coming up, we're going to go through some of that evidence that Israel says shows that they are not responsible for the attack. We will have much more on what is happening there in Gaza and here as we are in war. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:35:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: All right. We just heard from President Biden who is in Tel Aviv, obviously, meeting with Israeli leaders in the midst of this conflict between Israel and Hamas. There was this hospital that took damage yesterday, an explosion at a hospital inside Gaza right here. The IDF, the Israel Defense Forces, released evidence overnight that they say proves that this explosion was the result of an errant rocket fired by Islamic jihad, that is a terror group that operates within Gaza.

This is some video of the explosion. Part of the intel -- and I should say that Lieutenant General Mark Hertling is with us right now. Part of the intel released by the IDF was an audio recording that they say was between Hamas operatives. We can't independently verify the authenticity of this, but they say this was the conversation immediately after this alleged rocket hit right there. We're going to play this and show you the transcript full right now. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are saying it belong to Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's from us?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who says this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are saying that the shrapnel from the missile is local shrapnel and not like Israeli shrapnel.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: And that's a portion of what IDF has released of what they say is an intercepted, obviously, communication between two Hamas operatives.

General, what do you read from that? What do you take from that? What does it mean?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST AND FORMER COMMANDING GENERAL, U.S. ARMY EUROPE AND SEVENTH ARMY: It is another indicator, Kate and John. It is what's called signals intelligence. When you are in combat like that, you have listening posts, you have capability to read the other -- the enemy's mail, if you will. So, in this case, what we are hearing is a signal's intelligence, allegedly.

[10:40:00]

Now, it could be manipulated. There could be fake artificial intelligence, but it appears that this is really a Hamas operative talking about where the missile strike. You combine that with other things that we've already talked about, the overhead imagery, the films, the destruction in the parking lot, the explosion of this whatever it was in the parking lot with a big ball of flame.

The potential that President Biden has alluded to that he has seen other intelligence from U.S. department which we would call potentially massant (ph), which is measures and signals intelligence. Satellite, kind of, indicators. It appears -- and the president was not specific on this, he said, all indicators pointed to this. He wasn't definitive. And truthfully, I can understand that, as a commander on the ground you never want to say unless you put someone there, you do the crater analysis, you see pieces of what landed at this location.

Until you have the entire intelligence factor all put together, you can't definitively say who did it. But what is happening right now is it's attempting to, kind of, push back on what happened immediately after by the Hamas ministry of health.

BERMAN: If that is, frankly, possible at this point.

HERTLING: Right.

BERMAN: Given how quickly that information spread. Let's go piece by piece by this evidence provided initially by the IDF, the Israel Defense Forces. This is radar trajectory. Explain what this show.

HERTLING: This is tactical level intelligence. This came probably from something called a Q-36 radar which measures rockets departing a point of origin and going toward a point of impact. The Israelis need this because the Iron Dome somewhere along this trajectory will pick up whether or not a rocket is going to hit a target and then they shoot it down. If it's going to land in a field somewhere, they'll leave it alone. But in this case that was on a path of one of those trajectories, and it appears like from other film that reinforces this that a rocket fell out of the sky. BOLDUAN: Add to the -- add now this piece into it when you talk -- I'm going to go straight to the video actually because this is interesting. It's what you see from your perspective, and your experience, and also what you don't see. What stands out to you?

HERTLING: Well, I'm not a bomb analyst, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Right. Exactly.

HERTLING: But what I will say is, you see a lot of burned vehicles. If this was an explosion, a massive explosion like it would come from a bomb off of a jet, those cars would be all over the place based on the force. What you see instead is a lot of burned cars in place with some movements. You also see in part of the film, if it transcribes over --

BOLDUAN: Yes, it will go back.

HERTLING: -- you see cars that are not burned close by. So, it appears like there was -- yes. Here -- so, here's the point of what it appears to be the impact. Over here, these cars aren't touched. They're not burned at all. The glasses are broken, you know, the windows are crashed in, but it doesn't have the impact that you see here. And again, here's the hospital and what you see on the hospital are just pock marks on the side of the walls, windows blown off. SO, this is where the blast occurred that was probably forceful, but not the kind of blast you would get from a 500-pound bomb dropped from a hospital that would be targeted towards something to level a building.

BERMAN: All right. General Mark Hertling, thank you for rushing up here, helping us understand some of the new information provided. The audio recording we've had for some time but we were just able to play it now. So, thank you for helping us understand what we heard there, General.

HERTLING: OK.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, General.

Let's get back over to Sara in Tel Aviv. Sara.

SIDNER: All right. With me now is Tal Heinrich, a spokesperson for the Israeli prime minister's office.

Thank you for being here. There's lots of questions that we want to ask you. First and foremost, the humanitarian crisis that is taking part happening right now in Gaza, President Biden spoke about a breakthrough. Can you give us any information from the Israeli side? He says, look, Israel has decided they are going to do some kind of a corridor where there will be a ceasefire. What is the latest?

TAL HEINRICH, SPOKESPERSON FOR THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I'm glad to see you, Sara. So, Israel is not going to allow into Gaza any kind of humanitarian aid through the Israeli territory, not as long as we, you know, we want our hostages back. The sons and daughters and elderly who were abducted into Gaza, we want to see them back and that's a condition that has to be met for humanitarian aid to enter from the Israeli territory, you know, moving ahead.

But given the U.S. request, I can tell you that it is confirmed that we are discussing certain guarantees that's essential, humanitarian aid will make its way from Egypt into Gaza. And we're talking about food and medical supplies and water. So, we do want to see humanitarian aid coming in, just like the U.S. president stated today.

[10:45:00]

It's important to us that the civilians in Gaza will not be harmed. We want -- we don't want civilians in harm's way. We don't want to see civilians caught in the cross fire between us and Hamas. But we are there to dismantle Hamas. We, as you know, we're not in it right now to deter Hamas or contain Hamas or anything like that. We want to hit them very hard. They cannot get away with what they did to Israel on the October 7th massacre, simply not. And one of the top priority is that we will get our sons and daughters back, 200 of them.

SIDNER: So -- and I just want to be clear. So, is this a deal that is done, in other words, you have agreed that there is going to be corridor, a humanitarian corridor. There will be no, for example, airstrikes in the area from the Rafah Border to try and let in food, water and medical supplies?

HEINRICH: It is in discussion right now. But again, another condition is that this humanitarian aid that will go from Egypt through Gaza will not end up in the hands of Hamas. This has to be guaranteed because, you know, just like the international coalition to defeat ISIS had not provided ISIS with fuels and medical supplies and water. We do not want this humanitarian aid to end up in the hands of Hamas and be repurposed to their war machine against us.

So, it's very important. Just a few days ago, we heard that UNRWA, the U.N. agency, admitted that there were fuels and some medical supplies in Gaza City that were stolen by Hamas, people that were purporting to be from the Gazan health ministry, which is also Hamas controlled but they were from Hamas, and they stole some of these supplies. Now, these supplies are being repurposed to hurt us.

SIDNER: But obviously, the Gazan health ministry is treating people there. And there are a lot of people watching this happen, and it seems to them that the entire population in Gaza is being punished because of Hamas' actions. No water, no fuel, no -- and that these children, more than 50 percent of the population in Gaza is children. How do you justify that saying, OK. We're cutting off your water. We're not going to let food through our borders at this point in time.

HEINRICH: First, our cause in this war that we didn't want, we didn't start, we didn't invite, we weren't even expecting it, as you know. It was forced upon us. So, our cause here is just. And for that reason, the U.S. president also showed up here. And his arrival, we are so grateful for that because this sends a very unequivocal message to all of Israel's enemies right now, and it is being very greatly appreciated. Every Israeli citizen wanted to hear what the U.S. president had to say today. SIDNER: Right. One last thing, I have to ask you about the hospital. There have been a lot of -- there's been a lot of confusion. We cannot obviously verify it ourself. Israel has come out with some information saying, look, we have proof. But you did have someone who is a reservist, who went online, he's also an influencer. He went online and he made these statements that basically Israel had bombed this hospital because there were, as he put it, Hamas terrorists inside. He then took that down. That went all over the world. Is he right? Is that true? And how do you prove otherwise?

HEINRICH: So, I'm not personally familiar with this specific reservist and the comment that he made and what he posted and what he took down. But first, there's an abundance of evidence that Israel was not behind that strike, that it was a missile that fell short inside the Gaza Strip, the U.S. president just confirmed that based on the evidence that we have shown him. And also, there's an abundance of other evidence, including videos and this phone call between Hamas militants that was intercepted in which they basically admit that it wasn't us.

So, there's no doubt about that. But it is very concerning that there is some, you know, disinformation out there and we have to be very, very accurate when we address such issues because it can cost lives.

SIDNER: Yes. Thank you so much, Tal Heinrich. I appreciate you coming on --

HEINRICH: Of course.

SIDNER: -- and taking those questions.

We will be right back as the war in Israel continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

BERMAN: All right. Moments from now, the House of Representatives will reconvene for this second-round votes for House speaker. And Jim Jordan from Ohio, he fell way shorter yesterday than anyone expected, and today he might be even shorter than that.

BERMAN: Yes, not talking about height. We're talking about vote support.

With us now is CNN Senior Political Analyst John Avlon and CNN Political Commentator Margaret Hoover. OK. Is there a world, is there a universe where if Jim Jordan does not pull it off in the second vote, that a third vote is going to prove anything better for him?

JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No. Margaret's counterpoint.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND HOST, PBS "FIRING LINE": I agree. I agree with you.

AVLON: Whoa. Crazy.

HOOVER: But I don't think Jim Jordan is going to leave gracefully into the evening and just, sort of, walk off and let --

BOLDUAN: What else can he do?

HOOVER: Look, chaos is the point right now, Kate. I mean, that's what's actually happening. And I think all of this is having massive ramifications downstream, especially as you look at the field of congressional candidate that shape up. You have moderate Republicans that are getting primary by Trump-selected nominees right now. So, it's changing the entire dynamic out there in the country as well. They're on the march even though they're losing when it comes to the speakership.

AVLON: Well -- and that's why you have against a completely and frankly insane situation where Jim Jordan is going to be the savior of the Republican conference despite being a person who John Boehner, his fellow high Republican, former speaker, once described as a legislative terrorist because he's so focused on destruction rather than building. He's the worst possible person to play any kind of unifying role, and yet they were trying to push this idea and they were doing it through, frankly, fear to the center. Saying, look, if you guys don't vote for Jim Jordan, you're going to get premiered.

And the good news yesterday, frankly, is that the center started to hold. They showed some kind of spine for the first time in a long time. They're going to need to continue to do that. But, you know, if he did worse than expected yesterday, that's a sign of sanity given how implicated he was in January 6th and everything else.

BERMAN: "Politico" wrote that maybe for the first-time, moderates proved they were vertebras.

AVLON: Yes.

BERMAN: That they had spine.

AVLON: I've been making this case forever.

BERMAN: I chuckled inside. Listen, we don't have much time left.

AVLON: Yes.

BERMAN: Explain to me, Jordan if he loses, what happens with Patrick McHenry perhaps being empowered as some kind of temporary speaker. Discuss?

HOOVER: I think the likelihood that he becomes a caretaker speaker. Who is able for a certain period of time, and God only knows how long that is, at least run the House and be able to facilitate whatever supplemental bills that Biden gets through. And by the way --

BOLDUAN: Except a dumb band-aid.

[10:55:00] HOOVER: It may be dumb, but it's not dumb, actually, when you're -- we just heard President Biden say, he was going to ask for a huge amount of support and money for Israel, and we also need this for Ukraine. And so, in order for the United States to continue to be a world leader, we need stability at the House of Representatives, and the ability to do -- the one thing they really need to do which is pass budget.

AVLON: Yes, this is the world on fire, house on fire situation. This is a necessary but not sufficient step because you could get some things done. The way out of this is pretty clear. There needs to be a super majority of Republicans who reach out to a handful of Democrats so that the process isn't held hostage by folks on far right anymore. Will they -- if they don't do that, this is just a temporary measure, you could very well see rotating speakers every six weeks being toppled. Unless someone has the courage to reach out and create a real stability which would be a major break with the hyperpartisan fever that's been driving our country crazy.

BOLDUAN: Good luck.

BERMAN: One way or another.

AVLON: Keep up alive.

BERMAN: We are about to step into the unprecedented here. John Avlon, Margaret Hoover, thank you very much.

AVLON: Thank you.

BERMAN: Thank you all for joining us today. CNN's special coverage of that critical house vote begins right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: You are looking at live pictures right now, nearly 6,000 miles apart on the left in Washington, D.C. House Republicans are trying to snap a sad streak of failure. On the right, in the Middle East, President Biden is promising to stand by Israel now and forever.

Moments ago, we just got a statement from the White House National Security Council asserting that Israel, based on the intelligence they've acquired, is not responsible for that explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday. This follows President Biden on the world stage, asserting that he has seen sufficient evidence to convince him that the Israeli Defense Forces are not responsible for the horror at the Gaza hospital.

Two stories with hugely important consequences across the globe, and CNN is on the front lines of both. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT AND CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS: And I'm Dana Bash on Capitol Hill where we still have a speakerless House of Representatives. In minutes, Jim Jordan plans to take his second shot at the speakership on the House floor. Tuesday's vote did not go well. 20 Republican defectors say, he is not fit to hold the gavel well more than Jordan's sources tell us that they expected. And today, the Ohio Republican needs to hold his entire conference minus four Republicans, a tall order considering what happened just a little less than 24 hours ago.

SIDNER: And I'm Sara Sidner in Israel where the American president has injected himself into a deepening Middle East crisis. The fog of war fueling outrage across Arab capitals like Beirut and in Amman after a blast at that Gaza City hospital. Today, right here in Tel Aviv, President Biden urged both Israelis and Palestinians to honor the humanity of the lost. He also said the early evidence points away from Israel, that they are not responsible for the blast at that hospital. The Tuesday blast that the Hamas controlled authorities inside Gaza say killed hundreds in indescribable fashion.

TAPPER: And we will have much more from the Middle East throughout this hour, but we're going to start at home, at the U.S. Capitol and with CNN's Manu Raju.

And Manu, you have some new reporting on the race for speaker and on Congressman Jim Jordan's effort to get the speaker gavel. He lost that ballot yesterday. He got 200 votes from House Republicans, short of the 216, 217 votes he needed. Is there going to be another vote and will he be closer or farther away, do you think?

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY AND CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, he is poised to lose this vote that's going to happen in the 11:00 hour, it will be a second ballot. And I am told by Republicans who are part of that opposition that the opposition will only grow. And if not on the second ballot, almost certainly on the third ballot if Jim Jordan decides to do that. I am told that it could be 20, 25, maybe even up towards 30 Republicans will ultimately continue to vote against Jim Jordan.

The concern from the Jordan folks is that the longer this goes on, that more of those Republicans will ultimately peel off. Some of them said that they would only support him on the first ballot, and not necessarily are going to commit to vote for him on the second and third ballot. As one Republican who is opposed to Jim Jordan told me, he said the opposition team is unified, it is growing. And there is consensus that they plan to hold the line, to try to force Jordan out of the speakership.

Now, Jordan is trying to show that there is some progress. I caught him just moments ago on the way into congressman's office and he indicated that he wants -- that he is still staying in the race. We'll see how long that ultimately goes. But there is a belief in Republican circles that if he cannot show progress on this vote and cannot show progress on a third vote, there is no path for him on the speakership.

[11:00:00]