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Right Now: Air Raid Sirens In Tel Aviv; U.S. Embassy In Amman, Jordan, Issues Security Warning; Jordan Loses Second Vote For House Speaker; Former Speaker McCarthy Says Jordan Should Go To Third Ballot; U.S. Currently Assesses Israel "Not Responsible" For Deadly Hospital Blast In Gaza; Ivo Daalder, Former U.S. Ambassador To The U.N., Discusses Biden's Trip To Israel Amid Continuing War With Hamas. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 18, 2023 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:32:36]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: I'm Jake Tapper in Washington.

Let's go to Anderson Cooper in Tel Aviv where there are air raid sirens in Israel-- Anderson?

(AIR RAID SIRENS)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes, Jake, the sirens started sounding about 30 seconds ago or so. So we anticipate there's a little bit of cloud cover, so it's a little hard to see the sky behind me.

We know, if rockets come, they come from that direction, the direction of Gaza. We have yet to actually see any interceptors from the Iron Dome going up into the sky. So it remains to be seen exactly what this alert is.

There have been -- I think there's only been like one or so today. And now it seems like there was a -- the sirens are going off. So not sure what that was. I didn't see anything in the sky or hear any --

(BOOMING)

COOPER: OK. There was some interception there. Just didn't see anything going up. As I said, there's cloud cover. A little hard to see in the sky.

But pretty soon, there will be an all clear, I would imagine, and then people come out from the shelters, if they did seek shelter.

It's -- you know, as you know, it's a pretty regular occurrence here over the last several days or so -- Jake?

TAPPER: Anderson, I know that neither of us are munitions experts. Was that likely a Hamas rocket being detonated by Iron Dome that we just heard?

COOPER: I'm sorry, I'm having trouble with my I.P., as you could tell when you came to me.

You were saying is that a --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Was that an Iron --

COOPER: -- Iron Dome? Is that what you were wondering?

TAPPER: Yes. Yes. What we just heard.

COOPER: Yes. I'm sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you.

TAPPER: OK. All right. So we're having trouble connecting.

Let's go to Nada Bashir right now.

Can she hear me?

She's in Amman, Jordan, now.

Tell us what's going on in Amman, Jordan, where you are.

NADA BASHIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL REPORTER: Look, another night we've seen hundreds of people taking to the streets here in Amman in a show of protest, a show of solidarity with the Palestinian people. But in protest against Israel's airstrikes on the besieged Gaza Strip.

[13:35:03]

Of course, it's important to remember that on this very day, we had anticipated to see a summit chaired by King Abdullah of Jordan. Of course, with President Joe Biden, as well as the presidents of Egypt and the Palestinian Authority.

That summit was canceled following the attack on the Al-Ahli Hospital inside Gaza.

As you can see here, this has really ignited an outpouring of anger, of outrage, condemnation amongst the population here in Jordan.

It is important to know this isn't the first time we've seen protests. In fact, this has been a daily occurrence in Jordan since the beginning of this war.

Remember that around half of the population in this country are either Palestinian or of -- (INAUDIBLE) -- a little further away from the protest, we can speak to you now and get a good signal.

But I have to say behind where we are the streets are packed. There are hundreds here chanting their solidarity with the Palestinian people.

Where they are just behind me is just a few meters away from the Israeli embassy. We saw yesterday, hundreds of people gathering, some protests even attempting to storm the Israeli embassy. So we have seen a bit of an increase in the security presence here,

but it has been mostly peaceful.

Look, this isn't just happening in Jordan. It's not happening only in Amman. It's happening across the Middle East.

We have seen people taking to the streets in Lebanon, in Tunisia, in Iraq, in -- (INAUDIBLE) -- the West Bank in protest against Israel's continued -

(AUDIO PROBLEM)

TAPPER: OK. So we're having comms issues there in Amman, Jordan, obviously.

And we will continue to follow that major story in the Middle East.

But we're also following the story here in Washington, D.C., where, for the second day in a row, Congressman Jim Jordan has been trying to get his House Republican conference to vote for him for speaker.

And for the second day in a row, he has failed to get the requisite number of votes for that to happen.

Let's check in with Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. He just secured an interview with former Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who, as you may recall, was ousted several weeks ago by his conference.

Manu, what did he have to say about what is next? You know, we do not have a functioning legislative branch because of House Republicans' inabilities to get 217 votes behind one Republican.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. He says that the House can continue to function under the interim speaker, Patrick McHenry.

Even though there is a dispute legally about whether he has the power to actually preside over legislation, allow the agenda to move forward, he believes that essentially that McHenry does without any vote of the House.

There's a discussion right now within the House GOP about moving forward with the resolution to make that very clear, that Patrick McHenry has that power.

That has badly divided the House Republicans. They would need Democratic support to do that. But McCarthy says there's no need for such a vote.

He also believes that Jim Jordan should continue. He said that Jim Jordan should go to another ballot. He says Jordan should have more time to actually convince those holdouts to flip, just like he did back in January.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: -- for Jordan to drop out of this race?

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Oh, no. Not at all. I mean, he picked up a couple, lost a couple. Somebody had voted for him before, they could always vote for him again. He picked up a couple more votes.

RAJU: You think he should go to a third ballot now?

MCCARTHY: I would take time to talk and listen to members. Look, you said this exact same thing to me, and we were able to put it together.

RAJU: That was January. This is the middle of a session. There's so many major international issues happening, and this needs to be resolved quickly. How could he possibly turn the tide on this?

MCCARTHY: I think he can. I think that same pressure. People realize you can't keep playing games.

I mean, you know, you sit back and look, you got Crazy Eight led by Gaetz with every single Democrat voting to shut down any branch of government. Who would think that was the right thing to do any time of year?

But apparently --

(CROSSTALK)

MCCARTHY: No. No, no, no. I get to answer questions, thank you.

So what I see is there's no chance in the world that Democrats could ever say again that they put people before politics. They made a political decision to try to bring chaos, to shut down a branch of government, and that's wrong.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think there's any chance of flipping any of those Republicans. If you look at the map, aren't eight people easier to flip than 22?

MCCARTHY: Well, technically, you only needed four to be -- but, no. Jim's the nominee, Jim's the nominee we're going to focus on.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What about the members who switched their vote --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now the question is, what exactly is next? Jim Jordan's spokesman said, quote, "We're going to keep on going."

And Jordan just talked to reporters walking off the House floor. He didn't say exactly when that third ballot might occur.

He said that we --- he talked to me. He said we don't know when we're going to have the next votes, but we want to continue our conversations with our colleagues.

He said we picked up some today. A couple dropped off. But they voted for me before. I think they come back. So we'll keep talking to members and keep working on it.

[13:40:04]

So very unclear about what any of that means.

The Republicans have talked about having a closed-door conference this afternoon. We'll see if that ultimately comes to pass as it is badly divided Republican conference tries to figure out what to do. There are so many opinions.

You heard Kevin McCarthy saying he -- Jim Jordan should keep going, should serve as speaker, should let Patrick McHenry be the interim speaker.

Others simply don't think he has the power to do that so there should be a vote to empower him. Some Republicans are opposed to that.

Others say it's time for a new candidate, get Jim Jordan out, have him step aside, have a new candidate come forward. Then others say, if a new candidate comes forward, that person also won't get 217 votes.

Just showing the chaos within the House GOP after more than two weeks since Kevin McCarthy was ousted from the speakership.

No clear sense of how to proceed. No clear consensus on who the candidate might be. And a division about whether the current interim speaker can do anything legislatively at all.

All leading to just more questions about whether they can make this paralyzed chamber work again. But at the moment, Jake, no clear sign about how they can make that happen -- Jake?

TAPPER: Manu, former Speaker McCarthy keeps blaming this on Democrats as if Republicans would behave any differently were the shoe on the other foot. OK, that's fine, whatever he wants to do that.

Right now, Republicans are the majority. They can all gather around and pick a candidate, all right? Democrats are in the minority. They don't have the power.

Republicans need to rally around a candidate. Why can't they do it? Why are they so dysfunctional?

I mean, Speaker McCarthy can blame it on Democrats all he wants. He's the majority party. It's time to govern. It's time to rally around a candidate. It does not appear that Jim Jordan is that candidate.

What's the problem?

RAJU: You can break this down into two issues. One, you have those hardliners who initially ousted Kevin McCarthy, who want their candidate in the speakership. They don't trust the people in leadership.

Like Congressman Steve Scalise, the House majority leader, who initially was nominated to replace Kevin McCarthy but faced opposition from many of those same skeptics.

Then you have folks who are aligned with Kevin McCarthy, aligned with Steve Scalise, who absolutely do not want to reward what they consider bad behavior.

To elevate Jim Jordan, saying that is counter to what they are as Republicans by playing by the rules. They say that doesn't play by the rules to push out a speaker and put someone in that you want.

So this boils down to the distrust, the tension that was caused by Speaker McCarthy's ouster just more than two weeks ago.

McCarthy had to live week by week as speaker, given that he had given power to any one individual member to oust him. He had to cut that deal to win the speakership on the 15th ballot.

And ultimately, he made a decision that the Republicans didn't like. They pushed him out. But it all stems back from that, Jake.

Just so much ill will, bad blood within the House Republican conference. And they -- and as a result, the people can see the effect of it. No legislation can move. This chamber is divided. This chamber is stuck.

And a big reason why is the two -- two wings of the party are just at war with each other.

TAPPER: Yes. It's not normal. And frankly, it's not particularly interesting.

[13:43:16]

Much more on the breaking news from Washington and the Middle East just ahead.

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[13:48:06]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Welcome back to our special coverage. I'm Brianna Keilar with Boris Sanchez in Washington, alongside Anderson Cooper who is live for us in Tel Aviv.

President Biden just wrapping up an unprecedented wartime visit to Israel as protests continue across the Middle East in response to a deadly explosion at a hospital in Gaza.

The U.S. currently assesses Israel is not responsible for yesterday's blast. Biden today echoing that assessment.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Hamas did immediately blame Israel for the explosion. Israel says they have several key pieces of evidence pointing to the Islamic jihad, saying it was a failed rocket launch by the Hamas-aligned militant group.

Now CNN cannot independently confirm exactly what caused the blast.

But the bloodshed reignited fears of escalation. And that this could become a wider conflict.

President Biden had a clear message on that front.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My message to any state or any other hostile actor thinking about attacking Israel remains the same as it was a week ago: Don't, don't, don't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: CNN's Clarissa Ward is in Askelon, Israel, a few miles from the Gaza border.

Clarissa, some of the most urgent issues right now are -- have been certainly the last 12, 18 hours, this hospital blast, the hostage crisis certainly, and getting aid into Gaza.

President Biden offered some specifics about all three. So let's talk about it.

First, let's talk about the aid going into Gaza, $100 million the U.S. is pledging, but also commitments from Israel to allow aid in through the Rafah border crossing.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. President Biden had said he had come up with an agreement with the Israelis where aid would be allowed to flow in through Rafah.

[13:49:57]

The Israelis went on to confirm that, with some strict caveats they put in place that none of that aid could in any way be touched by Hamas.

The real sticking point seems to be the situation around the Rafah border crossing. CNN's own journalists are in the area and they have been hearing a series of explosions and blasts throughout the day near there.

The Egyptians had been saying previously that that is why they do not feel comfortable opening up that border crossing. It remains to be seen now though.

As you know, there are dozens and dozens of trucks of aid poised, ready to go, ready to go in. So it is possible we may see movement on that potentially as early as tomorrow morning.

Also to allow some of those foreign nationals and heavily, heavily wounded people to leave. But this is going to be a tricky thing to pull off. There are a lot of different elements at play. And, yes, it remains to be seen whether it can be pulled off -- Anderson?

COOPER: President Biden also cautioned Israelis not to act out of vengeance but offered unwavering support for Israel's right to defend itself.

Clearly, the U.S., as of now, is standing by Israel in terms of what their version of what they say happened at the explosion at the hospital.

Israel, as you know, early this morning, around 9:00 Tel Aviv time, put out information that they have intercepts, satellite imagery, as well as analysis of structures and damage on the ground.

The lack of craters in the parking area of the hospital where the explosion took place, the type of explosion they say it was.

The National Security Council put out a statement saying they, too, as of now, came to the conclusion this was an errant rocket fired by the Islamic jihad.

That will not settle the emotions running high here on all sides, and particularly in a lot of -- in the West Bank and elsewhere where we've seen large demonstrations.

But it's significant that the U.S., the U.S. intelligence community and President Biden is standing by Israel on this.

WARD: I think you really hit on the main point there, Anderson, which is a lot of people are approaching this with emotion rather than information.

A lot of people made up their minds the minute that blast occurred. The minute they saw those horrifying scenes of hundreds of innocent civilians, including women and children, being maimed and killed, they decided who was to blame.

It's important to underscore that for millions and millions of people across the Muslim and Arab world, they have a fundamentally different understanding and perception of this entire conflict and also of the events of the last 10 days.

And I think it's clear -- you have to go online or try to engage on some level with this information war that's raging, that people are very wedded to their narratives.

No amount of information at this moment, even if it's impartial, even if it's heavily vetted and investigated by impartial groups, it's not going to punch through.

Because the narratives that people have chosen, they're digging in. These lines are drawn in the sand. There's an outpouring of emotion.

This didn't start, as you know, 24 hours ago or even 10 days ago. This is decades in the making -- Anderson?

COOPER: Clarissa Ward, thank you very much.

Joining me now to discuss is former U.S. ambassador to NATO, Ivo Daalder.

Appreciate you being with us.

After meeting with the prime minister, President Biden said the U.S. will stand by Israel. Cautioned against acting out of revenge and emotion. He's going to be asking Congress for an unprecedented support package for Israel.

What did you make from what you heard from President Biden today?

IVO DAALDER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: I think it was a very important visit by the president to demonstrate that Israel was not alone when it comes to facing the kind of terrorist brutality that we saw just 10 days ago.

But I also think it was important for him, and I think he did, use the visit to engage Prime Minister Netanyahu and the war cabinet in some very serious conversations about the strategy that Israel has embarked upon.

As he said publicly afterwards, he said, "We were also attacked on 9/11. We, at that point, made decisions that turned out to be a mistake."

He warned the Israelis about the importance to have very clear objectives, to know whether you've asked the right kind of questions and done your analysis to make sure the path you're on is the right one to achieve those objectives.

[13:55:09]

And I think the president was sharing some doubt that, in fact, the current effort by Israel is moving in the right direction.

And asking them to make sure that, before you start, for example, this ground invasion and continuing the heavy bombardment, that you're achieving what you set out to achieve.

COOPER: I talked to General David Petraeus, former CIA director, among many other missions he has held, last night. One of the things he was stressing was, what is Israel's plan after?

Let's say Israel has a ground invasion and they succeed in seriously degrading Hamas, destroying Hamas leadership. Is there a plan for what happens in Gaza after that?

And at this stage, do you see any kind of a plan? Is that important before operations begin?

DAALDER: Yes, I think it's absolutely critical. I agree with General Petraeus that there is no clear sense of a plan. I would ask -- I imagine President Biden asked that. Number one, how

do you crush Hamas without at the same time creating an incredible damage to Gaza itself, the infrastructure that makes it a viable place for the people who live there?

Secondly, what happens afterwards? Who is going to rule Gaza once you have removed those who have ruled Gaza since 2007? There is no good viable answer to that question.

Israel clearly doesn't want to occupy Gaza again. And the president made clear that that would be a mistake, and it would be a mistake.

No Palestinian Authority, whether the P.A. or some other authority, has the capacity, let alone, the willingness to rule Gaza on the back of Israeli tanks.

I don't see the international community, whether it's the Arab community or the U.N., to come in and take over full responsibility for governing this place.

So before you start an action like this, as we learned in Afghanistan and learned in Iraq, we better know what the answer is.

Who is going to rule? Who is going to take charge? Are we sure that the situation afterwards will be better than it is today?

COOPER: Yes. Ambassador Daalder, thank you so much.

Our special coverage from the region continues after a short break.

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