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Deadly Explosion Rocks Gaza Hospital: Hundreds Killed; U.S. Backs Israel's Denial of Responsibility in Hospital Blast; Biden Urges Caution in Israel, Recalls Post-9/11 Mistakes; Arab Leaders Cancel Meetings with Biden Amid Regional Outrage; Intelligence Points to Palestinian Rocket in Hospital Tragedy; Biden's Middle East Visit Overshadowed by Hospital Controversy; Tensions Rise as Hezbollah Targets Israeli Military Positions; Humanitarian Aid Corridors Opened, but Regional Meetings Cancelled; U.S. Warns Iran, Sends Additional Military Presence to the Region; Israel Determined to Topple Hamas, Ground Invasion Imminent. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 18, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: You're watching CNN News Central, and we're following major breaking news this hour. I'm Boris Sanchez in Washington alongside Brianna Keilar. Our colleague Anderson Cooper is live in Tel Aviv. And right now, there is a desperate scene in Gaza City. People are digging through rubble, searching for family members after a deadly explosion at the Al-Ahli Hospital. The Palestinian Health Ministry says that hundreds there have been killed.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. government is currently saying it believes Israel is not responsible for the blast. President Biden backing up that assessment during his trip to Israel earlier today, citing multiple pieces of evidence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Palestinian people are suffering greatly as well. They mourn the loss of innocent Palestinian lives like the entire world. I was outraged and saddened by the enormous loss of life yesterday in a hospital in Gaza. Based on the information we've seen to date; it appears the result of an errant rocket fired by a terrorist group in Gaza.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Meantime, outrage has been boiling over in Arab cities, people taking to the street, protesting, renewing worries that the conflict obviously could spread wider throughout the region. We're covering a number of angles at this hour. I want to begin with CNN's Jeremy Dimond who's with me now. Let's talk about the latest that the IDF is saying. There was a press conference this morning, around 9.15, Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari, the head of public information, was giving it. Talk about what Israel has presented. And that the U.S. has backed up.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, they've presented a number of pieces of evidence that the U.S. is now effectively backing. The U.S. has their own sources of intelligence as well, of course, but what Israel is presenting, they presented this to these conversations. They claim are intercepted conversations between militants inside of Gaza, talking about the fact that this was a Palestinian rocket that misfired effectively.

COOPER: And in the conversation, they say it's that the pieces of the rocket left behind are consistent with rockets from Hamas or Islamic Jihad, not with Israeli munitions.

DIAMOND: That's right. And then Israel has compiled its own evidence, including from surveillance from a drone, after the impact happened, that they say shows that this is not something that would have occurred from an Israeli Air Force strike. One of the main pieces of evidence, and one of the ones that's frankly, the one that we can perhaps verify the most easily, although as of yet, we haven't independently verified this entire account by the IDF, is the fact that there is no crater, it appears, in these images that the IDF has presented. If a bomb was dropped from a fighter jet, there would typically be a quite a large crater. And they say, you know, I asked one of the questions that I asked was, all right, but how do you explain that so many people could have potentially died from this, that the explosion could have been so massive?

They say that it was because this rocket was at its initial stage of departure and had a lot of propellant, a lot of fuel that would have caused this massive fireball. But ultimately, really this is a question of credibility as well for the IDF. You know, there have been instances in the past where they have not been truthful or have presented a different version of events and then ultimately changed their mind. And so, I asked Admiral Hagari that question. Listen.

[14:05:15]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: Hey, Admiral Hagari, Jeremy Diamond, CNN. Thank you so much. I'm wondering if you could first explain how an Islamic Jihad rocket could have caused this much death and destruction. And then second of all, I'd also like you to address the question of credibility, because frankly, the IDF has a less than perfect track record with the issue of credibility. Among other incidents, the Israeli government initially claimed that it was armed Palestinian militants who killed the journalist Shireen Abu Akleh, which we know is not true. So why should the world trust you now?

REAR ADM. DANIEL HAGARI, IDF SPOKESMAN: Because of the importance of credibility. And in the past, we had our ourselves were fast to go to conclusions. This is why in this event, we took the time, took us more than five hours. We wanted to double check everything, make sure we're credible. Again, we wanted to double check everything, make sure we're credible, opposed to the other events that you mentioned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And Admiral Hagari came back repeatedly to this idea of credibility. And it seemed to be an acknowledgment, frankly, that they have not always been credible. You know, so it seems they're picking and choosing their moments when they do provide full explanations. I mean, we're still waiting for an IDF explanation of this shelling in southern Lebanon that appears to have killed or that definitely killed journalists. Whether or not it was Israeli shelling or not, we have not yet confirmed.

COOPER: We should point out the National Security Council has put out a statement in the United States saying that their own analysis of their intelligence backs up the conclusion that this was a misfire of an Islamic Jihad rocket or some group's rocket coming from Gaza.

DIAMOND: Yeah. And that's because in addition to all the evidence I just talked about, there's also evidence of tracking the actual rockets that were fired, seeing some of the trajectory. There's also some footage that we're seeing from various news channels that appears to show the rockets being fired, one of them perhaps coming down. Again, we have not independently verified this yet, and Palestinian officials are still adamant that this was an Israeli airstrike. And we're seeing a lot of those countries like Jordan, for example, that has blamed Israel. They are not backing down. They say that they are sticking with their version of events, that this was Israel that was responsible for this strike.

COOPER: Thanks to Jeremy. Appreciate it. And now to CNN National Security reporter Natasha Bertrand. Natasha, what more can you talk or tell us about the U.S. government's current assessment about the intelligence or their own current assessment about this blast?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yeah, Anderson, well, you referenced the National Security Council's statement just then, and I want to read it to you in full. It said, while we continue to collect information, our current assessment based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open-source information is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday. And now this NSC statement, it did not say exactly who they do believe is responsible, but President Biden, he did say in remarks this morning that, quote, based on the information we have seen to date, it does appear the result of an errant rocket fired by a terrorist group in Gaza.

And look, officials told us separately here at CNN that it does appear to have come from a rocket launched by Palestinian Islamic Jihad. And so, the U.S. has been examining a lot of the intelligence that the Israelis have provided. That began really as soon as this attack happened. The Israelis started collecting information and they began sharing it with the U.S. intelligence community, which then took that and kind of examined it alongside U.S. intel community assets, which are also active, including overhead satellite imagery, blast analysis, looking at kind of the crater that Jeremy mentioned or the lack thereof, I should say, the radius of this explosion. And all of this, we are told, is pointing to the general conclusion that an Israeli airstrike was likely not the culprit of this.

Now, the U.S. has also examined those intercepted conversations that the Israelis provided, allegedly between two Hamas militants discussing this errant rocket attack. But look, all of this is preliminary. The U.S. has emphasized and in our conversations with sources, they have emphasized that this is not a final assessment. And the NSC statement also made very clear that the U.S. is continuing to gather information about this. One thing that's very tough about this is that you can't have these kind of independent investigators on the ground there to actually examine this because of the situation in Gaza. So, the investigation remains ongoing. But the preliminary assessment is that it was not an Israeli airstrike, Anderson.

COOPER: I do also just want to point out that, you know, we get used to hearing air raid sirens here and seeing the Iron Dome intercept rockets that are being fired. But the rockets are being fired from Gaza are being fired from more often than not civilian areas. I mean, they're being fired from buildings in residential communities. They're being fired. They're being moved around, they're being fired from the city itself. So if, in fact, Islamic Jihad had a barrage of rockets, some of which were going over the hospital, it gives you just an indication of if, in fact, that is the case, and this was an errant rocket that fell, just the sickeningly cynical nature of the conflict here that they would immediately use that, not accept any form of responsibility and use that to inflame populations all throughout the region.

[14:10:38]

I want to go to our senior international correspondent, Ben Wedeman, in southern Lebanon. So, Ben, let's talk about this outrage that we have seen over the last 18 or so, 12 hours in the Middle East. The U.S. Embassy in Beirut just advised Americans to avoid the area near the embassy as the protests continue. What have you been seeing?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Anderson, in the last 24 hours, there have been fairly large protests at the bottom of the hill leading to the American embassy, which is about half a mile up the hill. They were throwing rocks and fireworks at the Lebanese security forces. They were responding with tear gas and water cannons. They did not, however, manage to break through the barrier that's always in place at the bottom of the hill to prevent exactly this sort of eventuality.

And of course, the U.S. Embassy in Beirut is highly fortified, and employees of the embassy, or rather, American staff of the embassy, can't simply walk outside. They're under very strict restrictions when it comes to moving around Beirut. Now, the mounting tensions in Lebanon and across the region are starting to have an impact. The State Department has told families of embassy employees and non- emergency personnel that they can leave the country on a case-by-case basis. Saudi Arabia today advised all its nationals in Lebanon to leave the country immediately. France and the U.K. have told their nationals, don't come to Lebanon unless you absolutely have to, because, of course, the worry is not only of tensions in the street, but of course, the possibility of an outbreak of a war on the border between Israel and Lebanon. Anderson.

COOPER: And Ben, let's talk about what's going on at the border between Israel and Lebanon. Has there been any uptick today? WEDEMAN: Yes, we've counted so far six strikes by Hezbollah on Israeli military positions, and mid-afternoon, for about two hours from what we could hear, there was a pretty constant exchange. We could hear volleys of rockets being fired out of Lebanon and Israeli artillery, we assume, being fired back. And it's important to note that Hezbollah is very specific in its targets on the border. They really are focusing on Israeli military installations, and in particular, on observation towers and surveillance and communications equipment. They've also, in many areas, used their rifles to take out the cameras that the Israelis have installed on the fence, and in some areas, the wall, those cameras peering into Lebanon. Anderson.

COOPER: Ben Wedeman. Ben, thanks so much. President Biden warning the government and people of Israel to not, quote, be consumed, in his words, by rage in the aftermath of the attacks of Hamas. He talked about the U.S. experience in the wake of 9-11 and the mistakes that were made. Up next, how his message and the trip are being received in Israel and throughout the region.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:14:48]

KEILAR: President Biden had a really daunting task with today's wartime visit to Israel. He aimed to demonstrate America's unwavering support for Israel. He also aimed to keep this conflict from spreading to other countries and to help alleviate some of the human suffering. He delivered that message by drawing upon America's experience after 9-11.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Justice must be done. But I caution this while you feel that rage, don't be consumed by it. After 9-11, we were enraged in the United States. While we sought justice and got justice, we also made mistakes. The vast majority of Palestinians are not Hamas. Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: The president's urgency was clear when a devastating hospital explosion killed hundreds, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry, shortly before the president headed off to the Middle East. This incident sparked anger and confusion across the region and it caused Arab leaders to cancel their planned meetings with Biden. Let's discuss this with Middle East analyst Dan Raviv. He's the author of Spies Against Armageddon, Inside Israel's Secret Wars, and also with us, former Obama campaign foreign policy advisor David Tafuri. Dan and David, thank you so much for being with us. So after President Biden's visit, Israeli officials confirmed they wouldn't block humanitarian aid deliveries into Gaza through Egypt. How can Biden help guarantee that it gets there? And what should the U.S. do to help get U.S. citizens out of Gaza?

KEILAR: I think we might be having an audio.

DAVID TAFURI, FOMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN FOREIGH POLICY ADVISOR: Is that question to me? Oh, yep. (inauible)

KEILAR: Yes, it is.

TAFURI: Is that question to me?

KEILAR: You got us? Okay, great.

TAFUIR: Oh, sorry. Thank you. So, President Biden was right to go to Israel. This was an important visit. We also see, though, the risks of going to a crisis situation in the midst of a crisis that's changing quickly because he had already committed to the trip when the hospital attack happened. And that caused the Arab leaders he was supposed to meet on this trip also, including the leader of Egypt and leader of Jordan, to cancel, making it a bit awkward. However, I don't think this trip is going to be remembered for the hospital attack as horrific as it was, because your team has done a great job of explaining there's growing news and support for the fact that Palestinian militants responsible, not the Israelis.

[14:19:31]

What I do think will be known for is what you asked about, which is if Biden helps convince Israel to allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza, if he helps convince them to work with Egyptians to allow aid to go through the Rafah gate, if he helps convince them to allow some refugees, Palestinian refugees, leave through the Rafah gate, and at the same time delivering the message that the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense delivered for him, which is unwavering support for Israel's right to attack Hamas militants and to get justice from Hamas militants, but also delivering the message that they should be very cautious about harming civilians and think twice about occupying Gaza.

KEILAR: All right. And we do have Dan back with us. We've reestablished contact there. I want to ask you, Dan, you have leaders of Egypt, Jordan, the Palestinian Authority, cancelling their meetings with Biden in the wake of this attack. They seem to, you know, trying to be safe, saving some face and not making it necessarily as if that is the reason that they're trying to save this for another occasion, since Mahmoud Abbas had to go back and obviously deal with the situation. But if President Biden cannot get those meetings that are so key, especially with the Egyptians and the Jordanians, does this trip fail to accomplish part of what he set out to?

DAN RAVIV, MIDDLE EAST ANALYST: Oh, yeah, part of it, because the trip was supposed to show some balance. Joe Biden has clearly been on Israel's side since the massacres of October 7th that launched this war. Israel is determined to hit back, to roll into Gaza. Joe Biden is telling Israel as a friend, don't cause too much damage, don't cause too many civilian deaths. And then Joe Biden wanted to go to Amman, Jordan, and meet with those three Arab leaders of Egypt, Jordan and the Palestinians. And they didn't even want to meet him because of the horrible tragedy that happened at the Gaza hospital.

Now, President Biden has announced that U.S. intelligence believes that, in fact, Israel was not responsible for all the deaths at that Gaza hospital explosion. But frankly, Arab countries, at least the Arab street, don't believe it. I've just been hearing so much anger still from Muslim and Arab countries. So, the U.S. has a real problem, but for now has clearly decided beyond Israel's side, but arrange those humanitarian corridors which can actually help people. And the U.S. will feel it's doing something for ordinary people in Gaza.

SANCHEZ: David, to Dan's point about anger in Arab nations, I think it's safe to say that part of President Biden's visit was also to symbolize a deterrence for other actors in the region, whether non- state groups like Hezbollah or Iran, from getting involved in the conflict. I'm wondering how effective do you think he acted as president of the United States going in and warding off any potential attack from other actors there?

TAFURI: Well, I think it's really important that he went for that reason. It's also, of course, important that he's already sent one aircraft carrier to the region and he's sending another aircraft carrier to the region. You know that new increased military presence by the U.S. is not for Gaza. It's really to send a warning to Iran and to send a warning to Hezbollah that if they attack and open up a northern front in Israel, that the U.S. might have to get involved. And that's one of the only ways I think the U.S. would get involved militarily in this situation is if Hezbollah attacks.

And I think it would likely be appropriate for the U.S. to do airstrikes against Hezbollah. And I certainly think that's one of the things that is a consideration. Of course, there are behind the scenes talks between President Biden and Netanyahu about planning for every contingency, including that and including other actions by Iran, that Iran might take in order to inflame passions in the region. And I also mentioned simmering under all of this is the fact that Iran is still striving to get nuclear weapons. And one of the highest priorities for President Biden in the U.S. is to make sure Iran does not get those nuclear weapons.

KEILAR: Dan, we heard the president warning in a way about making mistakes that something the U.S. did in the wake of 9-11 was that some they made mistakes. Biden supports Israel. He's voicing American support for Israel. At a certain point, though, does the number of civilians killed in Gaza become untenable? And what is his message on this?

[14:24:31]

RAVIV: Well, this is very different for Israel than previous what I call mini wars between Israel and Gaza. On occasion, Israel has frankly reluctantly rolled into Gaza. A lot of Israeli troops are killed. Usually, Israel is dependent on the Iron Dome to shoot down rockets from Gaza so there wouldn't have to be a ground invasion. This time, a ground invasion is absolutely planned. This time, Israel is determined to get rid of Hamas. Hamas, that means to overthrow, in effect, the government of Gaza City. And that's what the U.S. did after 9-11, went into Afghanistan in search of Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden, but also to topple the Taliban government, and the U.S. did that. And in Iraq, the U.S. invaded Iraq and toppled Saddam Hussein. So, Joe Biden looks back in history and says there were mistakes in all that. Don't let rage take over. But the rage is really strong right now in Israel, not just because of the killings, the massacres, the rapes, all the atrocities of October 7th, but now 199 hostages, Israelis being held in Gaza. Israel wants to rescue them. Maybe they should give some more time to let negotiations try to get some folks released, but I don't know if Israel will now allow for that and delay its ground invasion anymore.

SANCHEZ: Dan Raviv, David Tafuri, we have to leave the conversation there, but thank you both so much for your perspective.

TAFURI: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Stay with News Central. In just moments, we're going to take you back to Israel to get an update with a spokesperson for Israeli Defense Forces on that hospital blast in Gaza. We're back in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)