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Demonstrators Call For Ceasefire At Rally On Capitol Hill; U.S. Currently Assesses That Israel Is "Not Responsible" For Deadly Gaza Hospital Blast; UN Declines Comment On Israeli Demand That It Declare Palestinian Terrorist Groups Responsible For Hospital Blast. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired October 18, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:01:45]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: It is the top of the hour. I'm Brianna Keilar here in Washington alongside Boris Sanchez and let's go straight to Gabe Cohen on Capitol Hill where a protest is underway. Gabe?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So Brianna, right now we're in the Cannon House Office Building right across from the Capitol and you can see just over from where I'm standing a huge crowd of protesters, organizers from a couple different Jewish American organizations who are here occupying the Rotunda in this building calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.

This comes just a few minutes after they were holding a rally on National Mall but as you can see right in front of us right now someone is being arrested. We have seen a lot of people being zip-tied and led away after being told that this was a sealed space that they could not be here. In fact, we were standing about five feet that way just a couple minutes ago and I was told by a police officer, move or you will be arrested and that's exactly what's happening to the people here.

And look, these are the same organizers, the same groups who were outside the White House on Monday, 30-plus people arrested outside the White House who are blocking entrances. There was a huge crowd there on Monday and now we're seeing the same thing today. They again are calling for an end to the war, the fighting, the bombings in Gaza.

They have put a lot of the blame, listening to the speakers here over the last couple hours that were at that rally just down the National Mall, they put the blame really squarely at the foot of Israel and the IDF.

And now, again, we are watching as Capitol Police are arresting people one by one who are seated in this area who are being told they need to leave now and yet they are willing in this case to be zip-tied and to be led away, guys?

KEILAR: Gabe, can you have your photographer pan up a little just to the - I mean, are they in the upper part of the Rotunda there as well or are they just there on the main floor part?

COHEN: Yes, Brianna. I'll show you - Harlan (ph), if we can show some of the folks up there, they are all the way across the Rotunda, even up on the upper level. And, in fact, right as this got underway we saw people hanging banners up there. Several people were holding banners along that upper level and that were - those were the first folks who police really grabbed. They ripped the banners out of their hands. Some of them were then zip-tied and arrested.

Now we're starting to see that here on the lower level but I can tell you just five, ten minutes ago the crowd was significantly larger. Police are really arresting people quickly and taking them out of this room, presumably to be processed.

KEILAR: And so they just amassed there in this, in this house office building. Police were not expecting this?

COHEN: Well, it's hard to say. But look, police came here quickly. We were here before this really unfolded and the crowd gathered very quickly and then a couple minutes later we saw at first a dozen and now it looks like a few dozen police officers. And we're being told to move a little bit here, Brianna, but police really gathered quickly. They warned the people who were there chanting, singing and they warned that they would be arrested and that's exactly what's happening now.

[15:05:04]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And Gabe, if you've been in touch with the organizers behind the group, do you know if they've had any contact with lawmakers? Have they been able to take their message directly to members of Congress?

COHEN: Yes. There were a couple of congressional leaders, Cori Bush, Rashida Tlaib, who actually spoke just a little while ago at that rally I was referring to on the west side of the Capitol on the National Mall, there were those congressional leaders there. So they have been in touch with them and even Monday during the rally that I was out at outside the White House they had talked about that they were starting to hear from congressional leaders.

So they certainly have some people's attention and they believe that this could make a difference, that this is not going to go unnoticed. It will be seen. The question is what difference will it make, guys?

SANCHEZ: Gabe Cohen, please keep us updated on what you are watching unfold on Capitol Hill right now. Obviously one of many scenes we've seen around the world of anger over what is unfolding in the Middle East.

We want to turn now to CNN's Anderson Cooper, who's live for us in Tel Aviv. Anderson?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes, Boris, thanks very much. Here in Israel people search for survivors in the rubble in Gaza, that devastating hospital explosion in Gaza City. President Biden was in Israel, as you know, for historic wartime visit. It was an unmistakable show of unity between Israel and the United States, a show of support particularly today for Israel at a time of increasing volatility.

Hundreds of civilians were believed to have been killed yesterday - in yesterday's hospital blast. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, Hamas, as you know, blamed Israel - blamed the IDF. Israel says it has extensive evidence and presented that evidence publicly that a failed rocket launched by Islamic Jihad is to blame.

The U.S., the National Security Council currently assesses Israel is not responsible. The National Security Council made a statement earlier saying that they had looked at their own evidence, their own intelligence and came to the same conclusion that Israel did.

We have regional coverage right now. CNN's Clarissa Ward in Ashkelon in Israel, a few miles from the Gaza border. CNN's Ben Wedeman is in southern Lebanon. Let's start with Clarissa.

What have you been seeing, first of all, today where you are, Clarissa?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's been remarkably quiet here in Ashkelon, Anderson. Perhaps that's because President Biden has been here, but the situation in Gaza is still dire. We have been hearing strikes throughout the day. There have been reports from one of our own journalists on the ground of explosions near the Rafah Border Crossing. And that is, of course, where everybody is focused now because President Biden did make some news when he said that he had got the Israeli side to agree to allow for aid to pass through Rafah into the southern part of Gaza.

The Israelis came out afterwards and confirmed that. They said with the proviso that none of that aid is diverted in any way to Hamas. Now, we haven't yet heard any commentary from the Egyptian side. Up until now, the Egyptians have been saying that the issue with opening up that border and allowing some of those dozens of trucks full of desperately needed aid into - through the Rafah Crossing was because of continued strikes in the area and fears about the security situation.

So a growing sense of urgency and also a growing sense that possibly we could see not clear on the timing yet, but at some point the free flow of some of that aid into the Gaza Strip, where it is desperately needed. As we've been talking about, Anderson, for days now, hospitals are really not able to function. No power, no water.

One of our journalists on the ground reports that people are having to boil toilet water and give it to their families to drink because the situation with drinking water has become so desperate and some 600,000 people, according to the U.N. have been displaced from their homes in the north, moved to the south with no real refuge or respite.

So this is clearly a situation where time is of the essence on President Biden, saying that the Israelis have now given assurance that they will allow it to go forward. But still, a lot of questions and a lot of obstacles that need to be clear before we can expect to see those trucks of aid going through the Rafah Crossing and getting to those people who need it so desperately, Anderson?

COOPER: Clarissa, let's also just talk about the intelligence that Israel presented earlier today here in Tel Aviv and also intelligence that seems to be backed up by the National Security Council.

[15:09:54]

The U.S. Intelligence Community essentially Israel putting out - intercept the communication between what they described as two members of Hamas discussing that this was something to do with Islamic Jihad, saying that the rocket fragments were consistent with rocket fragments from Hamas or Islamic Jihad-style rocket, not something from Israel.

Talk about what else Israel put forward that the U.S. seems to be backing up at this stage.

WARD: So the Israelis have also put forward satellite imagery. They've put forward detailed map of where they believe the rocket came from, who fired it, the timing of the firing, the intercepts that you mentioned. And as you said, the National Security Council saying that a preliminary assessment, and it is a preliminary assessment, appears to back up Israel's assertion that this was a rocket that essentially misfired.

There are still many parties calling for sort of independent investigation. The U.N. today said, of course, that they would like to carry out their own investigation. I think more broadly, though, the issue that you have and that we're seeing playing out on the streets across the region, which I'm sure Ben will touch on a more detail, is that for many people, their mind was made up the second that this blast happened the second that they saw the horrors.

This is a highly emotional issue. People have chosen their narratives from the get go, and it is very difficult to see how cooler minds can prevail, how information just presented is capable of changing the minds of so many who feel so emotional, who are often getting this information and snippets from social media and memes and all kinds of inflammatory misinformation that is out there.

So this is an information war as well, Anderson, and we all do our best to walk the line.

COOPER: Yes, facts matter. We're - we cannot independently at this point verify the assessment made by Israel or the NSC. Obviously, we're trying to do our best and working on that.

Ben, the embassy in Beirut just one of the sites of intense protests. What have you seen?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is the second time within 24 hours, Anderson, that we've seen large protests at the bottom of the hill below the U.S. Embassy, which is actually about a mile up the hill behind a barrier set up by the Lebanese security forces. But those protesters twice last night and this afternoon tried to break through the barrier. The Lebanese security forces were firing tear gas and water Cannons in their direction, and eventually the protesters were cleared out of that square at the bottom of the hill by the Lebanese army.

But, of course, that's just one of many protests across the region. In Amman, Jordan, we saw very large protests in Morocco, Yemen, Istanbul and elsewhere. And this has really sort of sent jitters through, for instance, here in the diplomatic community. The United States is now advising Americans not to travel to Lebanon and has told family members of staff at the embassy and also non emergency personnel that they can leave on a case by case basis.

Saudi Arabia put out an advisory to all its nationals in Lebanon to leave immediately. The U.K. and France are telling their nationals don't come to Lebanon at the moment unless it's absolutely necessary. And, of course, we've seen a variety of airlines, Lufthansa and Swiss Air have canceled flights. Even M.E.A., Middle East Airlines, the Lebanese national carrier has sent five of its airplanes to Istanbul as a precautionary measure because, of course, one of the first things that happened at the beginning of the 2006 war between Hezbollah and Israel was that the airport was struck by Israeli aircraft and taken out of action, Anderson?

COOPER: Ben Wedeman in southern Lebanon. Ben, thanks very much.

Joining me now to discuss his former Israeli prime minister, Naftali Bennett. He recently enlisted in the IDF reserves.

Prime Minister, appreciate you being with us.

I'm wondering what you made of President Biden's visit here and the message that he sent.

NAFTALI BENNETT, FORMER ISRAEL PRIME MINISTER: Well, it was very meaningful visit to know that America stands on the right side of history and stands behind Israel in our fight against the - this Nazi- type regime in Gaza that murdered, raped, severed heads of little babies. Because this is going to be a long and protracted and tough war and we're going to need the time to get the job done, so this is very meaningful.

[15:15:00]

One of President Biden's stated goals while coming to Israel was to help deter the conflict from expanding, given the fact of the blast of the hospital, the claims by Hamas about it early on and the canceling of the meeting in Jordan with others in the region, with King Hussein, El-Sisi of Egypt and Mahmoud Abbas.

Do you think more could have been accomplished? How significant would it have been for him to have had that meeting?

BENNETT: I think a lot was accomplished, but I do also want to talk about this floating the narratives or the claims. There are no two sides to this hospital. Either it was bombed by Israel or it was targeted by someone else on the Palestinian side. And if it's - if two people come and say one says it's raining outside and the other said it's dry, you don't bring the quotes of both sides. You just goddamn open the window and look whether it's raining or not.

That's what we did. And this hospital, in fact, it's a parking lot, was hit definitely a hundred percent by Islamic jihad barrage shot fired at 6:59 PM. We have three different videos from different angles showing it. We have the ballistics. We know that an Israeli bomb would have created a crater, which does not exist. We know that the propellant in the rocket, because it was a long-term rocket targeted for Israel, so a lot of that propellant was still in the rocket, which created a lot of fire. We have two Hamas nicks (ph) talking to each other and saying and admitting that it is from Islamic jihad.

So, Anderson, with all due respect, there aren't two sides to this. Not everything is two sides. And I have a feeling that if it wasn't the state of Israel, then I think the global media would have behaved very differently.

COOPER: We're simply saying we have not been able to independently verify the claims that that have being made. We have reported exactly what Israel has put forward and also that the U.S. Intelligence Community has backed up as well. And that certainly seems to be what President Biden has also been basing his assessment on. It's what he said. Information from his own defense department, in addition to Israel's presenting of evidence that takes the (inaudible) ...

BENNETT: Anderson, I have to barge in here. I have to say something. I was in 9/11. I was in Manhattan when it happened. And if a day later, al-Qaeda would have said that it's America who perpetrated it. No one would have quoted it al-Qaeda. No one would - and you didn't have validation back then that it was al-Qaeda, but you knew it's not America.

And somehow there's a double standard here. You had 30 hours to validate. We have all the information. Everything is transparent. For heaven's sakes, to see the headline of The New York Times saying the Palestinians claim that Israel bombarded a hospital, we don't do that. It's the Palestinian who rape young girls. It's the Palestinians who tear apart limbs. It's the Palestinians who burn whole families and shoot five month old babies. It's the Palestinians, for heaven's sake, who kidnapped 84-year-old Holocaust survivors. It's not the Israelis. This is not what Israel does.

And you've had ample time, do your job and show the truth. There is moral clarity in the world. Not everything has two sides to it.

COOPER: Naftali Bennett, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much for being with us.

BENNETT: Thank you very much.

COOPER: It is still unclear - yes.

Up next, we're going to have a detailed military analysis of the video that was presented - video and also images from the side of the attack, analysis of that ahead.

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[15:23:27]

SANCHEZ: The fallout is growing from a deadly blast at a Gaza hospital. A U.N. official is refusing to acknowledge an Israeli demand that the U.N. Secretary General publicly declare Palestinian terrorist organizations responsible for that blast. We were able to geo locate this video showing the moment of the explosion. Watch this.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Foreign language).

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SANCHEZ: Let's discuss the incident with CNN Military Analyst and retired four-star Army Gen. Wesley Clark.

General, thank you so much for being with us.

So, on the question of the U.S. currently assessing that Israel was not responsible for the explosion, walk us through the steps that U.S. Intelligence takes to come to that assessment when there's an incident like this.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: So you would assemble various data. You would look for communications intercepts. You'd look for imagery from overhead. You would look for the bomb crater analysis. You would look for fragments on the ground and you'd look for any indication that there was anything other than an accidental hit on this location.

So we'll start at the back. Israel is following the laws of land warfare, so they're not going to target a hospital unless that hospital is somehow disguised, and it's a real imminent threat. They're not going to target the hospital.

[15:25:00]

Secondly, we know from the communications intercepts that two Hamas individuals were saying, oh, god, look what happened. We didn't do it. And then we know that people have looked at it. They found residue of the fuel. They found the fragments that are symptomatic of a Islamic Jihad rocket that misfired, that didn't stay on course, large warhead fuel there. There's no crater that would be symptomatic of a bomb falling from the sky. No big crater, even a 500-pound bomb crater hitting in a parking lot, talking about 10-, 12-foot wide crater, 3-, 4 feet deep. None of that there. This was not an Israeli bomb by all the evidence that's been available.

Now what we would do is if we had access to it, we put our own forensics experts in on the ground. We'd be collecting everything ourselves, but we're not going to get in there. And by the time we do get in there or the Israelis get in there on the ground, it's been altered and not legally, say, protected.

So we've gone about as far as we can go at this point. It's clear that the information that was propagated around the world, it was convenient to blame Israel. I can't imagine that that Israel would do it. We can't, but others would imagine that they'd like to believe that.

I don't think the evidence supports it. I'm sure the Israelis wouldn't have done it because it would be so incredibly counterproductive to everything that Israel is trying to accomplish right now. There's just no motive for it.

On the other hand, it does feed the Hamas Islamic Jihad narrative that this is about civilian casualties and how barbaric the - barbarous the Israelis are and how could they attack innocent people and so forth.

So from the technical side, the photographic side, the analysis who benefits from it from looking at it just doesn't. It doesn't seem to be an Israeli accident and certainly not something on purpose, but not an accident either. All the evidence points to something wrong with a rocket that was fired by apparently Islamic jihad.

SANCHEZ: So, General, would you think that President Biden might then share some of that data, some of that intelligence with the world to make it public the way he has, on multiple occasions, with intelligence, the U.S. gathered during the Russian invasion of Ukraine?

CLARK: I think it might happen, but I imagine it - I don't know if it was our communications intercepts or the Israelis that picked up the statements by Hamas. And these communications intercepts are classified. And when you release them, you also give away the methods you might have used to collect them and you make it more difficult to get future information collection.

So I would think that they would not be just broadcast willy-nilly. You've got the President of the United States saying, you've got the former prime minister, current government of Israel saying what it is. You've got a number of military people who have looked at it and given you our opinions.

And to be honest, it's going to take a long time for this to sink in around the world and may never get the kind of correction that we want in the minds of some who're watching Al Jazeera or Al Arabiya or other networks. They just - it - they just won't accept the evidence.

So that evidence is going to be presented, needs to be presented at something like a war crimes hearing by the united - at the United Nations, and it possibly could be there. But again, we're in a current information warfare environment and so this strike on the hospital was a big a big strike in favor of Hamas, however it happened.

It doesn't help Israel and it's going to be very tough to correct that impression out there.

SANCHEZ: Gen. Wesley Clark, thank you so much for the perspective. We appreciate it.

CLARK: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Stay with CNN. We're back in just a few minutes.