Return to Transcripts main page
CNN News Central
Sidney Powell Pleading Guilty in Georgia Election Case; House Republicans to Meet Ahead of Potential Third Speaker Vote; IDF Says, Airstrikes Targeting Hundreds of Hamas Targets in Gaza. Aired 10- 10:30a ET
Aired October 19, 2023 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your probation or parole may be revoked based on entering this guilty plea.
[10:00:04]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do you understand that if you are placed on probation of any kind, you cannot violate the law in any way or the government or any special conditions of your probation that was subject to your probation to being revoked for the balance that is remain?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do you understand that you're not allowed to possess any firearms while you're on probation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Young, are you confident that that's accurate? Is this being a misdemeanor plea, that it doesn't involve domestic violence or that I'm not aware of a prohibition under Georgia law that would prevent her from possessing a firearm while in misdemeanor probation?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. And, Judge, I will handily say I am not certain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Well, how would we alter that to say that this plea may affect your ability to possess a firearm?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll follow that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you understand that, Ms. Powell, this plea to misdemeanor probation may affect your ability to possess firearms?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm going to just back up a little bit. Mr. Rafferty (ph), have you had an opportunity to go over the accusation with your client? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And have you both signed this accusation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do you waive any defects that may be contained within this accusation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We so waive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And have you advised Ms. Powell of the minimum and maximums for each of the charges within the accusation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, Ms. Powell, you understand that the maximum that you could receive is 12 months to serve on each of the charges and the accusation?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it's my understanding that you're asking the court to sentence you under the First Offender Act?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And have you played guilty or no-low to or ever been convicted of any felonies or misdemeanor in the state of Georgia or any other jurisdiction?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do you understand that if you were sentenced under the First Offender Act, has your attorney gone over what that means and what that entitles?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do you understand that if you violate the terms of your first offender sentence or commit a new offense while on probation, your first offender status could be revoked, you could be adjudicated guilty and you could be re sentenced up to the maximum sentence for each charge in the accusation?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you understand that if you successfully complete your probation, the First Offender Act, and you are discharge, you can honestly say that you have never been convicted of these charges?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you understand that you waive any and all defenses, including mental health defenses by entering this guilty plea?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do you understand that you would have 12 months from today's date in order to file a habeas corpus?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do you understand that unless counsel substituted or committed to withdraw, he will represent you until either the end of the term of court or 30 days from today's date, whichever is later?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's fine, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do you understand that you have until the last day of the current term of court to file a motion to withdraw your guilty plea?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you understand that that term ends on November 5th or 2023?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do you understand that any of the filings you, we just discussed, must be filed by your counsel unless you're representing yourself?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you understand that by pleading guilty, you are giving up the right to a trial by jury?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you understand that by pleading guilty, you're giving up the right to remain silent and not to incriminate yourself?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you understand that by pleading guilty, you're giving up the right to confront witnesses that the state may bring to testify against you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you understand that by pleading guilty, you're giving up the right to assistance of counsel hired by you or --
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Sidney Powell pleading guilty in the Fulton County case, the Fulton County election case against her agreeing to, I believe, 12 months probation to pay a fine and to cooperate as a witness in the investigation as into other people, including presumably former President Donald Trump.
[10:05:01]
I want to get right back to Katelyn Polantz very quickly. Katelyn, just remind us what she is pleading guilty to.
Elie Honig, our senior legal analyst is here as well.
Katelyn, what was Sidney Powell accused of that she just admitted to doing?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, John and Kate, there are two parts to what she is admitting here, as part of this misdemeanor plea deal that comes with quite a lot of stipulations, including her having to testify at future trials against people like Donald Trump. Those parts are essentially that she previously had been accused in this case as taking part of the racketeering conspiracy. So, that's very likely something that she would be testifying to.
But what she's pleading guilty here in this case in Fulton County, Georgia, is related to Coffee County, that rural county outside of Atlanta, where there were voting machines and she was accused of being part of a group of people that were hacking them.
So, this is a misdemeanor deal. It is not her pleading guilty to the specific felony charges that she was charged with, but she is admitting to taking part in that portion of what had happened there in Coffee County.
Very likely we'll be speaking in a way where her words can be used against those other defendants accused of the hacking conspiracy in Coffee County, trying to get access to that voting system there. But also, she is part of a much bigger conspiracy case, the racketeering case against Donald Trump and others, which accuses her of being part of the top echelon of lawyers around Donald Trump that were trying to undermine the election.
And even though the charges in Georgia for her previously and in this case were specifically about Coffee County, she was a person that was with the White House, in the White House, next to Rudy Giuliani, at public appearances, and part of that effort where various lawyers around the country were trying to put allegations of fraud into the court system, of voter fraud, and those allegations ultimately were false.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And, Elie, to get -- I just -- we want to get your reaction to this just, because Sidney Powell, there were few people who pushed the conspiracy theories and election fraud theories and some of the most wild of them, involving Venezuela, Hugo Chavez, few people pushed it further than Sidney Powell.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, that's right, Kate. It's important to remember who Sidney Powell is. She's one of Donald Trump's closest loyalist. She's somebody who Donald Trump has claimed he relied on her advice to proceed in his effort to try to steal the selection.
This is a major breakthrough for prosecutors, potentially a devastating development for Donald Trump, because what's going to happen now is Sidney Powell is going to testify for prosecutors in Georgia and, presumably, she'll also be prepared to testify for Jack Smith in his federal case in Washington D.C. She's not indicted in that case but she's listed as a co-conspirator in that case. She's going to be able to provide insider information that could be really devastating towards Donald Trump.
BERMAN: She was in the room where some things, if not happened, were at least discussed, Elie. She was part of some of these contentious meetings that allegedly took place in the White House before January 6th. How can prosecutors now use her?
HONIG: So, you use her to bring your jury into that very room. She will be the guide. She will be the narrator. She will be able to say, I was in this room with Donald Trump, with Rudy Giuliani. Here's what we discussed. Here's who said what. Here's what we knew.
And, John, really importantly, in order to take this plea and this deal, Sidney Powell is going to have to acknowledge what we did was criminal. It was illegal. It was a crime. And so that's going to lend a lot of credibility, I think, obviously, to prosecutors' assertions, that what Donald Trump did was knowingly a crime, was an intentional crime.
So, now they've sort of got an ultimate insider, somebody who has remained steadfastly loyal to Donald Trump, to the stolen election narrative, now she has flipped, now she has come clean, now she's going to be a prosecution witness.
BOLDUAN: She was on election night. She was at the White House watching the returns come in. That's according to some of her testimony to House investigators, though, she declined to speak about a lot of stuff. So, that's what you're getting at. So, she can speak to basically everything in terms of Donald Trump's involvement.
But is there any limit, Elie, to what, in terms of a plea deal -- and I don't know if the details need to come further out to know this, but is there any limit to what prosecutors, how prosecutors can use her, what they can have her testify to?
HONIG: So, typically, Kate, cooperation has to be all or nothing. Prosecutors do not accept partial cooperation. Well, you can just tell us some details or some facts, or you can just testify about some people, but not others.
[10:10:01]
The standard cooperation plea deal is you have to give up everybody, you have to give up everything, and you have to be willing to testify in this court and any other court where you're needed.
So again, the implications here go to the Fulton County D.A.'s charges down in Georgia. But I think they also are going to go to Jack Smith's charges, the federal case in Washington, D.C. I think she's now going to become a potential witness for him as well.
BERMAN: Katelyn, talk to me about the timing here, because jury selection getting underway within days in Georgia. Sidney Powell asked for the speedy trial. Kenneth Cheseboro has also asked for a speedy trial. Explain the timing here and the potential impact on these other cases.
POLANTZ: Well, the potential impact is potentially quite significant given that she is someone who was in the room at the White House up until mid December, and she was involved in these issues in Georgia that she's admitting to now.
But one of the things about the timing is that this just shows how the system incentivizes people to avoid trial, to cooperate with prosecutors.
So, she's doing this right before the trial is set to begin with jury selection at the end of this week. November 5th is the date, procedurally, where that guilty plea, that's the no-turning back date on this guilty plea, that's whenever the trial will formally kick off against her or previously would have been her and Ken Cheseboro. And so with that set up, it alleviates the need for the prosecutors to try her.
But, John and Kate, just following her case, following her as a person over not just related to the 2020 election, but the whole way through the Trump administration, when she was a lawyer representing Michael Flynn on doing his case, this is quite a surprise to see Sidney Powell become the second person in this 19-person indictment in Georgia to choose to plead guilty here and cooperate.
She, as a person, is incredibly set in her beliefs. It appears -- I remember in court she used to wear a blazer that said Carpe Diem on the lapel. And she is the type of lawyer who is a fighter and has branded herself as such.
And even in recent hearings, in this case in Georgia, her lawyers were very much looking toward specific pieces of evidence they had identified believing they could use that and they could fight this case and they could win. That is clearly not the decision that they're going with at this time, though.
BOLDUAN: Wasn't Sidney Powell the one that everyone called the kraken or they tried to refer to --
BERMAN: Release the kraken. She called for the release of the kraken.
BOLDUAN: Ellie -- sorry, final question, Ellie. If you are an attorney representing any of the other defendants, including Donald Trump right now, what's your conversation with your client?
HONIG: My conversation is, okay, tell me every time you ever spoke with Sidney Powell, everything you ever said to Sidney Powell, every meeting you were ever in with Sidney Powell, because now the prosecutors have all of that. And you have to prepare to cross-examine her. There is a standard line of cross-examination that a defense lawyer will use to cross-examine Sidney Powell. You only cooperate to try to save yourself. You're just trying to tell prosecutors what they want to hear. But prosecutors are used to that. Prosecutors know how to come back to that.
The main thing that you're looking for as a prosecutor is, did this person have access. Clearly, Sidney Powell did have access to those key meetings you've talked about. Do we believe her testimony now? Has she come clean? And can we back her up? Clearly, the Fulton County D.A. has answered yes on all those questions. I think Jack Smith likely will too. And now she's going to be a crucial witness in this trial, or perhaps multiple trials.
BERMAN: The major breaking news, Sidney Powell has pleaded guilty as part of a plea deal in the Fulton County case, election case, and will now serve as a witness in the investigations and prosecutions into others.
BOLDUAN: And it's -- I mean, think of, I guess I would say, probably maybe Rudy Giuliani would be the only other person that this -- it would be so significant that they had agreed to essentially cooperate and testify at trial against --
BERMAN: It is a sprawling case. We will have to see where the tentacles reach here. She wore a pin. Katelyn Polantz says, it says, seized the day on her lapel when she used to appear in the courtroom. Now, she seized a plea deal.
We're to get much more information on this and the potential implications.
We're also getting brand new information about Jim Jordan and his maybe stalled quest to be the next speaker of the House, what House Republicans just decided to do.
Our coverage continues right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:15:00]
BOLDUAN: We're following breaking news right now. House Republicans are headed back behind closed doors. The point, to discuss, quote/unquote, options this -- with regard to the fight over the speaker.
Jim Jordan just spoke to CNN's Lauren Fox. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Can I just ask, at this point, do you think that empowering McHenry for a short period of time might give you more chance to win over some of those skeptical Republicans? REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): We're looking to bring the conference together. We're going to talk about all kinds of options, I think, at the conference.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: All kinds of all kinds of options.
Manu Raju is on the Hill. What is happening now, Manu?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. There's just a lot of confusion that's happening among Republicans who are still in the state of turmoil more than two weeks after the unprecedented ouster of Kevin McCarthy, a speaker leading to the state of paralysis in the House. No legislative action can occur on the floor of the House until there is in a speaker elected.
And when we have seen time and time again, Republicans are just still badly divided over who should lead their conference, Jim Jordan, after failing on the second ballot yesterday to become a speaker of the House, losing 22 Republican votes.
[10:20:11]
The question is whether or not he will go for a third ballot.
I am told from Republican sources that the number could actually grow to potentially up to 30 no votes, assuring that he would not get the speakership.
So, there are a lot of questions here. Will he decide to step aside? Will he decide -- will another candidate emerge who probably will also struggle to get 217 votes, or will the Republicans try to move ahead with a resolution that would empower the interim speaker, Patrick McHenry, allow him the authority to oversee the fore?
All those are going to be hashed out behind closed doors in a critical meeting that will occur at 11:00 A.M., just in a matter of minutes, to try to figure out their way forward.
Now, this all comes as many Republicans are pointing the finger at the eight Republicans who initially voted to oust Kevin McCarthy. I just caught up with one of them, Congressman Bob Good, about everything that has transpired and whether or not he regrets what has happened so far. And he made clear he didn't.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: You know, is it worth all this, given the fact that you don't have a speaker or a paralyzed, you may not get Jim Jordan, and you may get someone even potentially more moderate than Kevin McCarthy? Was it worth you to join the members to paralyze the House like this?
REP. BOB GOOD (R-VA): So, what do you think would have happened over the last couple of weeks for the American people if we hadn't done this? RAJU: I mean, I think they said they would move on appropriations bills.
GOOD: So, what we didn't do under Kevin McCarthy for nine months suddenly would have happened in the last two weeks.
RAJU: You don't think so?
GOOD: Again, we didn't do it for nine months. Why would you think it would happen in the last few weeks?
RAJU: He said that they would, but the House can't even act on anything. So, was it worth it?
GOOD: He said he would do a lot of things that didn't happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: And that is what the feeling is among a lot of the Republicans saying that, in question, what did they ultimately get out of this process, given that many of those hardliners, like Congressman Bob Good, want Jim Jordan to be elected, but the people who are angry at those hardliners don't want to re-award them by electing Jim Jordan. Therein lies the problem of getting behind another candidate like Jordan. But if another candidate emerges, getting 217 votes also will be a very, very challenging task here.
So, this just leaves to more questions, but more chaos, more division as this chamber remains paralyzed, as they debate whether to move forward with giving Patrick McHenry, the interim speaker, more power to just allow the legislative process to work.
But Republicans too, Kate, are badly divided on that question as well. They would need Democratic support to do that. And, interestingly, Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic leader, just walked into the speaker's office potentially to talk about whether the Democrats could get behind it, because at the moment they've been noncommittal and whether they would support that approach of empowering Patrick McHenry.
BOLDUAN: What? I mean, a mess that's getting even messier, fascinating. All right, they're going behind closed doors. Bob Good wants to deal in hypothetical questions, which I thought is fascinating, because that's what should have been the answer, Manu. I don't answer hypothetical questions because that's always the answer we get from politicians.
Great to see you, Manu, we'll check back in with you. John?
BERMAN: All right. Joining me now is Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, a Democrat from Illinois. Congressman, I understand that Patrick McHenry, the speaker pro tempore just walked behind you. Would you support him, support empowering him, giving him more authority if it came to a vote on the House floor?
REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Possibly, yes. I think that it depends on what he worked out with our leader, Hakeem Jeffries. You have to know that Leader Jeffries has reached out many times now to the Republican conference folks, like moderates like Mr. McHenry, and said, look, let's kind of put together a bipartisan unity coalition that could sideline the extremists and make sure the House functions again.
BERMAN: What do you think Democrats should get in return for supporting McHenry empowering him?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: I can only speak for myself. I'm not speaking for the conference but or my caucus. But I think that we should not have a government shutdown. I think that we should have a vote on aid to Ukraine, Israel and funding our security needs. I'm hoping that we could possibly make sure that the motion to vacate based on one person moving to remove the speaker could go away.
Those are some of the things that I would be looking for. I'm sure that my colleagues and others have other thoughts as well but that's what I would be looking for.
BERMAN: Congressman, I shift locations here to put up some of the intelligence provided by Israel, the Israel Defense Forces, on this explosion at a hospital inside Gaza. You're on the Intelligence Committee. What is your assessment of the Israeli position that this was an errant rocket from Islamic Jihad?
[10:25:00]
KRISHNAMOORTHI: I was actually in the SCIF, in a classified briefing yesterday morning, and I was looking at the evidence carefully. I have not seen evidence of Israel being responsible for this particular attack. That being said, I'm just concerned generally about what's to come in the Gaza Strip. We have to spare innocence at all costs.
BERMAN: Do you think that Israel and/or the United States should release more of this intelligence that they say shows that it was a rocket from Islamic Jihad?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: As long as they could protect sources and methods and make sure that we're able to continue to gather and collect evidence because, as you know, we need to continue to do so, I think that would be prudent.
BERMAN: Congressman, the Israel Defense Forces today said that they've contacted the families of some 203 potential hostages who could be being held in Gaza right now, 203. This would be their 13th day in captivity somewhere presumably inside Gaza right now.
In your assessment, how is Israel's reaction so far making it more or less likely that those hostages would be released?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: It's obviously a very complicated question. I think, right now, we, working with the Israelis, working with our friends and partners and allies who can collect intelligence on the whereabouts of those hostages, are trying to locate them and try to do whatever we can to take them out of harm's way before any further operations occur. So, I think this pause right now is really essential for maintaining their safety and collecting vital intelligence on their whereabouts.
BERMAN: All right. Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi from Illinois, if Patrick McHenry walks by again, grab him for us. We would love to speak with him soon, and we do appreciate your help as well, sir.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: I'm happy to be a CNN correspondent for you, no problem.
BERMAN: It's a tough job sir, but thank you very much. Kate?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you.
BERMAN: Coming up still for us, the IDF says it has targeted hundreds of Hamas structures over the past 24 hours. The impact of those airstrikes, that is next.
Plus, in Southern Gaza, we will be talking to a doctor working there, how medical staff are dealing with the growing humanitarian crisis among the civilians.
We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:30:00]
