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New Explosion In Gaza This Morning; Biden To Give 8:00 P.M. ET Address Tonight On Israel, Ukraine; GOP Rep: Jordan To Back McHenry As Interim Speaker. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired October 19, 2023 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news out of Gaza we're following this hour. Right now, airstrikes in Northern Gaza are picking up again. We're going to show you -- this is what the skyline there looked like just about 15 minutes ago.

We've also been keeping a close watch on Southern Gaza, specifically Khan Yunis where explosions -- new explosions have been reported. I spoke with a doctor last hour who described what they are up against right now in Southern Gaza trying to treat patients. But he said they are -- said it is terrifying and supplies are running out.

And we also have news from Israel. These are the pictures of two lives lost. The Israeli-American -- an Israeli-American and her granddaughter who were thought to be hostages of Hamas, but who are now -- have now been found dead. This is according to their family.

80-year-old Carmela Dan and her 13-year-old granddaughter Noya Dan were kidnapped from their kibbutz by Hamas in the October 7th attack. According to a relative who lives in the United States, the IDF confirmed their death to the family yesterday. John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And we don't know what that does. The overall number of hostages the IDF says might be being held in Gaza right now. But as recently as this morning, they said there could be 203 hostages in Gaza. This would be their 13th day in captivity.

With me now is retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, CNN military analyst. We talk a lot about what might be happening in terms of an Israeli ground invasion of Gaza, which could be coming soon. But I want to ask you directly and you put together this slide here. What do you think we can expect from Hamas in the coming days?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, your team, first of all, the NEWS CENTRAL team helped me put this together. Because what we did is went -- we went through a couple of after-action reviews from the 2014 Operation Protective Edge. And what struck me, John, is everything that think tanks, scholars, both in the U.S. and in Israel said Hamas was going to do, we've seen so far.

I mean, more rockets, we know about that. But expand the tunnel complex. They're doing that. And we've seen that in some of the maps we've talked about.

Incorporate new tactics. Boy, the operation on the seventh of October, a land, air, and sea approach with squads doing assaults on cities with the great intelligence that you all had been reporting about, that's new tactics and technologies. We haven't seen a terror group do that at that level of sophistication yet, in -- at least in my career.

We have good allies, all of these individuals. And by the way, I misspoke this morning. I said PMC. It should be professional military groups --

BERMAN: Yes.

HERTLING: -- coming from some of the other countries like Iran and Iraq. But across the area, Hamas wants to get more support for what they're trying to do.

And then finally, and this is probably the most interesting thing, expand the victim doctrine. That's been the recurring phrase and a lot of these reports that date back to 2014. What's the victim doctrine? Well, it's members of these terror groups and the surrounding area saying everything that happens, that's not good, blame it on Israel. Denigrate their reputation as a nation-state, especially their Israeli Defense Forces and their intelligence community.

We've seen that since they wanted this operation. We saw it within the last few days on a hospital. As soon as it was attacked, there was the message. Hey, this is an Israeli rocket, when now proof seems to indicate that it was not. So, we're seeing all these things come to fruition.

BOLDUAN: So, having in -- these after-action reviews if you will, does that make -- do you -- did -- from your perspective, does it be should it make it easier for Israel to be successful if there is a ground incursion or not?

HERTLING: It should, Kate, but that's what's interesting. It's called an after-action review, not a lessons learned. Because a lesson learned means you've learned it and you've incorporated it. They've just had these things to think about. But what we're seeing is the things they've been thinking about are all coming to fruition.

BERMAN: OK. You know all that stuff. That stuff's there. So, what do you do now if you're Israel?

HERTLING: Well, again, going back to 2014, Operation Protective Edge, the Israelis mobilized 70,000 soldiers. Their main attack came into the North. This is a -- in military when it has two arrows on the top of it, that's your main attack. Another lesson for you too.

And they had supporting attacks in the center and in the South. We're starting to see now a lot of action in Khan Yunis as you just reported, Kate. Even at the rock -- but those are the three main city areas where we saw those underground tunnels.

The thing that we don't know when they put 70,000 mobilized troops in there, the fight was 50 days long. 66 Israeli soldiers lost their lives, 2100 according to the UN, Palestinians lost their lives in that conflict. And it came about -- it came to an end due to the world saying you're killing too many civilians.

[11:35:09]

In the after-action review, the other thing that was said, I didn't have it on the chart. It said the Hamas said we want to make it a longer conflict. With the amount of tunnels they have in there, with the mobilization now instead of -- instead of 30,000 -- instead of 70,000, it's now 300,000, this is going to be a long and deadly conflict if Israel does some of the things people are expected it to do.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

BERMAN: General Mark Hertling, it is always an education. Thank you very much for that.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, General. Coming up still for us. As the conflict in Israel -- the conflict between Israel and Hamas continues to ramp up, antisemitic attacks are also on the rise around the world. We're going to discuss that with Israel's Special Envoy and -- for Antisemitism next.

We're also closely monitoring the breaking news on Capitol Hill. We were just talking about sources telling CNN, no vote today for House Speaker. The House is still a mess and still in paralysis. What Jim Jordan is now reportedly leaning towards or maybe just finding an off- ramp to? That's ahead.

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[11:40:30]

BERMAN: President Biden will address the nation tonight in a rare speech from the Oval Office. The subject will be the situation not just in Israel, but also Ukraine. This is a very good time to talk about how U.S. opinions have perhaps shifted on both of those subjects.

With us now is CNN Senior Data Reporter Harry Enten. Sir, great to see you.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: It's nice to be here.

BERMAN: A big moment for President Biden. He's going to make a direct appeal to the American people, let's start with Israel. What are the current views among voters of Israel?

ENTEN: Yes. So, I like this particular question because it gives us a timeline. Do your sympathies lie more with the Israelis or the Palestinians? Look at the overwhelming majority here who say Israelis, that is up to 61 percent.

That is the highest-level Quinnipiac University has ever measured. Compare that to two years ago where it was just 41 percent who said the Israelis. And the Palestinians were right behind it, 30 percent. What we've seen is a massive jump in support for the Israelis, at least among the American public.

BERMAN: So, inside the Democratic caucus on Capitol Hill, there are some Democrats who have been critical of the U.S.'s support for Israel. But what about Democratic voters as a whole?

ENTEN: Yes. So, let's take a look at the same question we just looked at, but let's break it down among Democratic voters. Do your sympathies lie more with the Israelis or the Palestinians? What we do see is a tighter split here. But still, the plurality clearly says Israelis at 48 percent, Palestinians that just 22 percent.

That is a drastic change from where we were two years ago where in fact the plurality of Democrats sided more with the Palestinians at 46 percent to the Israelis at 23 percent. So, we've seen a massive shift overall. And that is driven in large part by the massive shift we've seen among Democrats, perhaps responding to Joe Biden's such strong message in support of Israel.

BERMAN: Well, what have -- what has happened to opinions of Joe Biden on this subject over the last few weeks?

ENTEN: Yes. So, you know, as we're going into the speech tonight, the thing that I think is so important to note is Joe Biden's Israeli policy. How voters view him on that is what -- some of the most positive stuff they feel about him generally given.

Look at his overall job approval rating -- his net job approval rating. He's 18 points underwater. Look at the U.S.-Mexico border, he's 40 points under.

Look at Israeli policy, he's actually above water, a plus three percentage points, 21 points higher than his overall job approval rating. So, given this, he's doing something clearly right in the minds of the American public when it comes to Israeli policy.

BERMAN: So, it is night and day. All right. Harry Enten, great to have you here. Thank you very much.

ENTEN: Thank you, Sir.

BERMAN: Kate?

BERMAN: The war in Gaza has also led to a spike in antisemitic acts around the world. Here in New York, the latest example is a swastika found graffitied on the building of one of the most iconic Jewish delis in the city. In France, there have been over 3,000 instances of antisemitic behavior in just the last two weeks alone.

We're joined now by Israel's Special Envoy for Antisemitism, Michal Cotler-Wunsh. Thank you so much for coming in. I appreciate the time.

The trend even before October 7, was that -- we -- and we've talked about it on this show a lot is that they -- they're increasing and spiking incidents of hate -- an antisemitic hate specifically, are in the United States and around the world. We're hearing from advocacy groups that there are increases in threats or of violence amongst communities, the Jewish communities, Muslim communities, and then I think Palestinian communities. How do you calm it down now?

MICHAL COTLER-WUNSH, ISRAEL'S SPECIAL ENVOY FOR ANTISEMITISM: Well, first of all, we have to be clear on identifying what it is that's happening. And you're a hundred percent right. This spike in anti- Semitism has been ongoing.

And actually, what October 7 did was pull off all the masks. The understanding that what we are seeing in protests on the streets, on campuses, in Congress, on social media, anybody that cannot unequivocally condemn the atrocities, the barbaric savage acts of October 7 is actually identifying with Hamas a genocidal terror organization that is fueled by the very same antisemitism that enabled it to murder and butcher and maim and rape and abduct. And is empowered by these voices that excuse it, that justify it, that deny it.

And at the core of all of that is antisemitism in its mutated form, the modern mainstream form on university campuses, online, on the streets, the form of anti-Zionism. Anybody that does not accept the existence of the State of Israel, which Hamas in its charter just like Mein Kampf is committed to annihilating to the murder of Jews, just like Nazis were committed to.

[11:45:11]

Anybody that does not support that existence is clearly identified with the antisemitism of today's version. On campuses, as you said. On the streets around the world. In Germany, Jewish homes are marked by the Star of David making them targets. We know right here on our campuses, students are targeted as Jews or as supporters of Israel, and so on and so on.

BERMAN: Before October 7, one of the things that many American Jews like to point out is that I can be supportive of Judaism, but I do not have to be supportive of the policies of the government of Israel. Is there that distinction in your mind, in the other direction? Are people -- do people separate Jews from Israelis?

COTLER-WUNSH: So, first of all, it's a very important question because criticism of the government, any government of any democratic country, is not only acceptable, it's a must in democracies. And we know Israelis more than any, plenty criticize their government. The difference is, and that's where the antisemitism piece and the masks are off is between criticism and de-legitimization.

The questioning of Israel's very right to exist, identifying or holding up signs that say we are Hamas, is like holding up signs after October 7 that say we are al-Qaeda, we are ISIS, we are Nazis. Where we have to be very clear for Jews and non-Jews alike that it is not to do with criticism? The genocidal terror that attacked Jews on October 7 does not see any place for the state of Israel to exist in any borders. It de-legitimizes its very existence. And that is a very important differentiation, including that's in the IHRA, the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of antisemitism that clearly stipulates that there's a difference between criticism and de-legitimization.

BOLDUAN: Michal, we've seen pro-Palestinian demonstrations erupt around the globe since October 7. And I have heard you note in other conversations that the civilians in Gaza are not to blame for the terrorism of Hamas. You have three children who are currently serving in the IDF in the midst of all of this. What do you say to those -- and we've heard from these demonstrators in the Arab -- on the Arab Street, what do you say to them who say the lead up to this, this is the fault of Israel how we got here?

COTLER-WUNSH: Anybody who cares for the Palestinians in Gaza or anywhere else, anybody who cares for peace, anybody who cares for humanity needs to be speaking up unequivocally against one thing only. And it is the genocidal terror organization, Hamas, that holds those Palestinians in Gaza as human shields. Actually, their headquarters are below a much larger hospital than the one that we heard of the other day. They are not only human shields and weapons, there are human sacrifices of an organization that has no value for human life.

There is no ability to conflate between Palestinians and Hamas, the genocidal terror organization, and we have to remember. But one proxy of a genocidal regime in Iran, alongside many other proxies that are fueled by the same genocidal understanding of our civilization, the only place that goes is destruction. And so, I implore anybody who cares about Palestinians to understand that Hamas is holding civilians as human shields, as weapons, making sacrifices, preventing them from being able to arrive at the humanitarian corridors created, stealing the humanitarian aid that is provided to Gaza, launching rockets.

As we speak, more than 6600 rockets have been launched in the 12 days alone since this began from densely populated areas in Gaza without any regard for the civilians it's endangering in a double war crime as they target the children in Israel.

BOLDUAN: Michal, thank you for coming in. So, horrible times we live in. Thank you for coming in.

COTLER-WUNSH: Thank you very much for having me. And just to remind all of our viewers that this is an assault on our shared civilization, not just on Jews, and not just on Israel.

BOLDUAN: Thank you, Michal.

BERMAN: All right. Behind closed doors on Capitol Hill, Republicans are meeting at this moment. There will be no vote for Jim Jordan to be speaker today. We're getting new information though on what the plans are now. Maybe a temporary bandaid in place. Stay with us.

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[11:54:16]

BERMAN: So, the breaking news. There will not be a vote today to try to make Jim Jordan the Speaker of the House. But what will there be? That is where it gets interesting. CNN's Lauren Fox is all over this on Capitol Hill. What's going on?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, we are hearing from our sources both inside and outside of the meeting that Jim Jordan is saying that he will back this resolution to empower Patrick McHenry temporarily. Marjorie Taylor Greene just telling our colleague Melanie Zanona that.

But one thing to keep in mind here is that there are still a number of Jordan allies who believe that they think that Jordan should be the permanent speaker. They don't like this idea of giving McHenry temporary powers. And they are going to be voting against it.

[11:55:03]

That means that Democrats are essential here because they are going to be needed if indeed, this plan were to move forward. If you want to pass this resolution, Democrats are going to have to say yes. Right now, behind me, Democrats are meeting in their own closed-door conference to have a discussion about how they want to proceed here because there are no guarantees that Democrats are going to accept this plan. So, I think that that is the dynamic you have right now. Republicans are divided over whether or not this is a good idea despite the fact that Jordan is signaling that he supports it. John.

BERMAN: Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill, just how these Republicans planned it, a way to give Democrats more power just like they always attended.

BOLDUAN: Exactly. Well, just -- let's hold on five more minutes and see exactly what happens.

BERMAN: Right.

BOLDUAN: But regardless, Lauren, thank you so much. And thank you so much for joining us today. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "INSIDE POLITICS" is up next.

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