Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Sidney Powell Pleads Guilty in Georgia Election Case; Jim Jordan Delays House Speaker Vote; President Biden to Press for Israel and Ukraine Aid. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 19, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:43]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: You're just hours from now a major prime- time address, President Biden delivering his message to the nation from the Oval Office, calling for additional aid to Israel and also to Ukraine.

I'm Brianna Keilar with Boris Sanchez here in Washington. Kaitlan Collins is live from Tel Aviv.

And, at the same time, the State Department is warning all Americans overseas.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Yes, this is a rare warning. And it says to -- quote -- "exercise increased caution," citing rising tensions all over the world.

It comes as the humanitarian crisis in Gaza grows more dire. Egyptian security officials told the CNN journalists on site that the Rafah Crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip will be open on Friday to deliver very critical aid. Workers were also seen making preparations.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Yes, that would be critical aid.

And, today, an Israeli strike on a neighborhood about 10 miles from where that crossing is, Boris and Brianna, killed a number of people and also injured dozens more. That's according to the Interior Ministry in Gaza. A spokesperson for the Israeli Defense Forces said he did not have information, but he said the military was looking into it.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Ashkelon, has been tracking all of this.

We're going to begin with CNN's Nic Robertson, who is in Sderot, Israel, which is near the Gaza border.

Nic, what have you been seeing since you have been on the ground there today?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, more incoming rocket strikes from Gaza. We have seen some headed north to where Jeremy is, the Ashkelon, Ashdod direction. They were intercepted by Iron Dome. Rockets aimed at Sderot, they came

in, at least one impact that we're aware of here, no casualties associated with that. There has been -- it has been this northern end of Gaza, relatively quiet. I say relatively because we have heard amounts of small-arms fire, heavy machine gunfire.

And we're hearing a helicopter. We have heard jets and the occasional missile strike into Gaza. But, in those terms, it has been relatively quiet. That strike on Khan Yunis further south from here, as you say, the Hamas-controlled Interior Ministry saying a number of people injured, number of people killed, dozens of people there injured.

It is kind of symptomatic of the many, many Israeli missile strikes that have gone into Gaza targeting Hamas, targeting their infrastructure, targeting their tunnels. I have been speaking with at least -- I have been speaking with two government ministers today.

Both of them say Israel is not targeting civilians, both of them rejecting the pressure that's coming from the international community for a humanitarian pause to alleviate -- to alleviate the civilian suffering at this time. Both of them, though, expecting that humanitarian aid that right now is that the Rafah Crossing on the Egyptian side, expecting that to come in to Gaza in the coming days.

SANCHEZ: So, Nic, walk us through what's actually going to be allowed to enter from Egypt. What is the operating procedure here? What are we supposed to watch happen tomorrow?

ROBERTSON: It's expected that 20 trucks will cross.

That is, as you say, the road was being prepared by workers. We know that, on the Gaza side, there have been some impacts of missiles or shells, Israeli missiles or shells, on the road connecting the Egyptian side into the Palestinian side.

Those, if they're repaired completely, and if there are no security incidents around the border overnight, and if any number of other things don't go wrong, then these 20 trucks should be allowed in, on the proviso that none of the humanitarian goods that they're carrying falls under the control of Hamas.

That is a red line for Israeli authorities, who still say, as far as getting any humanitarian support and relief for Gaza is concerned, none of it will enter from Israeli border crossing points, because they believe the absence of humanitarian aid is leverage to get the 203 hostages that Hamas controls released.

[13:05:04]

The 20 trucks is essentially a drop in the ocean compared to what the 2.2 million people in Gaza need, but it is coming at huge pressure from the international community on Israel, a pressure that actually -- we have heard from Egypt today, we have heard from Jordan today both saying in a joint statement they actually want a humanitarian pause completely, a stop to Israeli missile strikes and artillery strikes, so that there can be a bigger humanitarian effort. COLLINS: Yes, I heard from someone who has family in Gaza yesterday,

saying those 20 trucks of humanitarian assistance, it's what they could go through in two hours in Gaza.

Nic Robertson, we will continue to check back in with you.

Jeremy Diamond is over in Ashkelon, as I mentioned.

Jeremy, what have you been seeing on the ground today?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kaitlan, this is -- we're here in Ashkelon, which is the most fired-upon city in Israel. About 25 percent of all the rockets that have been fired from Gaza have targeted this very city.

That amounts to about 1,200 rockets. And while the Iron Dome does intercept the overwhelming majority of those rockets, about 200 of them have made direct hits here in the city, displacing families, causing casualties, even some fatalities.

And what we visited today was the command center, where city officials coordinate the emergency response to these rockets, sometimes tracking the trajectory of these rockets before they even make impact, figuring out where they are going to land, if, indeed, they get through that Iron Dome missile defense system.

Now, what we saw today was a city that is really calm, a city that has really come to a standstill in many ways. About 25 percent of the city's population has already left. The population that remains, though, many of them are resilient and determined to stay, despite the barrage.

We were in a supermarket today when an air raid siren went off. And what you saw was some people in fear running inside the store, while others really just continued to go about their day, continuing to do their shopping, as they saw it. But 90 percent of businesses in this city are indeed closed.

What is open, though, grocery stores, pharmacies, et cetera. But everything else is pretty much shuttered.

COLLINS: Yes, daily life here has just been changed so dramatically everywhere.

And, Jeremy, of course, what everyone is kind of waiting on, what seems to be looming over the entire, all over, over all of Israel, is whether or not they are going to go into Gaza, when they will, and what that looks like.

And we heard from the defense minister, saying that troops, Israeli forces, will soon see Gaza, the quote was, from the inside. I think the question is, once that does happen, once those forces are inside Gaza, how long they're there and what that looks like and what it means for the civilians who are still in Northern Gaza.

DIAMOND: Yes, not only does the timing, the exact timing of that ground invasion still remain unclear to us, although it does seem to be approaching, as you listen to not only the defense minister making those comments to troops about seeing the inside of Gaza, but also the Israeli prime minister today making very bellicose comments, indicating that the command to go inside of Gaza is very much approaching.

But what we know is that that command is going to come. That is something the defense minister said very clearly today. Whenever it does happen, though, there is, as you said, still significant uncertainty about how long that mission actually lasts.

Israeli officials have made very clear that this will be a different kind of ground operation than anything that has happened before. The last time that they went in, in any significant numbers was in 2014. This will be a much wider-scale campaign.

The question is, will they be able to achieve the objective of eliminating Hamas, as Israeli officials, including the Israeli prime minister, have made clear that that is the objective. And, also, what happens next? I mean, who -- if not the Israeli military, who takes control of Gaza?

And will Hamas indeed be able to actually be eliminated, when it is a militant force that can embed with the population, that can blend in with the civilian population? Is that actually an achievable goal? And what happens after?

COLLINS: Yes. And Israeli officials have warned it will take quite some time.

Jeremy Diamond in Ashkelon, thank you.

Now I want to go to CNN's Kayla Tausche, who is at the White House, where, of course, President Biden is set just hours from now to deliver only his second Oval Office address since taking office.

Kayla, we know that, obviously, Biden, he previewed here that he is going to be asking for a massive aid package from the U.S. Congress. What are we expecting to hear from him tonight, in terms of not just selling it to lawmakers, but also to the public who will be listening?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Kaitlan, this is going to be a direct appeal to the American people for why the U.S. has a national security interest to sustain the fighting in Ukraine and to come to Israel's defenses in an even bigger way.

[13:10:11]

Senior officials tell CNN that the president is going to make the argument that the cost of inaction is far higher than the cost of authorizing the funds that we have now learned the White House is going to request.

It's going to be a strikingly large package, about $100 billion through next September. About $60 billion of that is going to be earmarked for Ukraine, and the rest of it would go toward Israel, Taiwan readiness, and security measures on the U.S. border with Mexico.

But, Kaitlan, the president is facing a very skeptical public when he's making this argument. Recent CNN polling found that, on Israel, while the vast and overwhelming majority of respondents are sympathetic to the civilian plight in Israel and Gaza, they are unsure about exactly how to come to Israel's defenses and whether Congress should authorize more funding there.

On Ukraine, public support has been waning in recent months. And there's become a very clear partisan divide, with the majority of Democrats supporting sustaining that funding and the majority of Republicans arguing that perhaps it's time to let some of that funding run out.

The administration has argued that there's just a couple months left of supplies that the U.S. has provided to Ukraine that remain left. NSC spokesman John Kirby has said Ukraine can afford zero days to let that funding and that weaponry lapse before it would have issues being able to sustain the fight on the battlefield.

So the president has a very tall order. But, of course, he's going to be infusing some of his personal imagery from his time on the ground in Israel and his time visiting with President Zelenskyy last month as he tries to make that case directly to the public -- Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes, he's been to both war zones.

Kayla Tausche, thank you.

And, Boris and Brianna, obviously, President Biden is going to be speaking to Congress tonight. That's who he's making this ask to. And I just want to let you know what I have been hearing from sources here on the ground about -- President Biden was not here for very long. It was just really a matter of hours that he was here in Tel Aviv yesterday.

But even during those conversations that he was having with this newly formed wartime cabinet, what they're dealing with, of course, is, as Jeremy was noting, with when this ground invasion is going to happen, how long it's going to last, the drama that is happening on Capitol Hill came up during those conversations, I'm told, where President Biden was telling these Israeli senior government officials that he was going to be making this big ask of Congress, about $10 billion we're expecting for Israel itself.

But during those conversations, he was lamenting what was happening almost at the same time. Jim Jordan was failing again to secure enough votes to become the Republican House speaker, because, of course, officials here are fully aware of how that affects them, the fact that no matter what President Biden asked Congress for, there is no Congress that can actually act if there's not a House speaker to allow that legislation to pass through the House.

And so this is something that it certainly is of a concern here. They don't seem to be deeply worried, because the president offered them assurances that they did believe it would be taken care of. But it is remarkable that that drama that is playing out in the

Republican Conference is something that was being discussed in the basement of a hotel here in Tel Aviv, as the president was meeting with the Israeli prime minister and other officials who are dealing with a war on their hands.

KEILAR: Yes, the world is watching.

SANCHEZ: Right.

KEILAR: It is chaotic, it is messy, and it is something that is in full view of allies and enemies alike.

Kaitlan, thank you so much.

If we can, go now to Capitol Hill, because Republican Congressman Jim Jordan is pushing the pause button his bid to be the next speaker of the House. Sources tell CNN Jordan will not hold a third vote today on the speakership. But he's not dropping out.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Yes, an interesting wrinkle in all of this.

House Republicans obviously have been bitterly divided over the issue of speaker. Moderates have refused to back the ultraconservative Jordan. And now sources tell CNN he's leaning toward backing the interim speaker, Patrick McHenry, as a temporary fix until potentially as late as January.

Meantime, he will keep in the race for speaker.

Melanie Zanona joins us now live from Capitol Hill.

And, Melanie, why is Jordan staying in the race if he's losing support? And what are the holdouts saying about this plan?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, Jim Jordan thinks he has a new strategy that could eventually get him to the speakership.

The new idea right now, I'm told is that Jim Jordan is going to get behind this resolution to temporarily empower interim Speaker Patrick McHenry until January. Right now, he can only oversee floor votes related to the speaker's race. He can not move legislation.

And Jordan thinks that this will give him more time to really build support for his speakership bid. But there are a lot of risks to this plan. First of all, it is very unclear that that's going to win over any holdouts. I talked to one of them, Mario Diaz-Balart. He said this does nothing to change his mind about a Jim Jordan speakership.

[13:15:00]

And then the other risk for Jordan is that this is already sparking fierce pushback from members of his own party, conservative members who had been backing him for speaker. They say they do not like the plan of empowering Speaker McHenry.

I caught up with some of them earlier today. Let's take a listen to what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM BANKS (R-IN): It's absurd. It's the biggest F.U. to Republican voters I have ever since. It's a big mistake. It's a big mistake.

QUESTION: How many Republicans...

(CROSSTALK)

BANKS: And over half the Republicans in that room are against it.

REP. RALPH NORMAN (R-SC): I don't think it's the right way. The speaker drama is not going to go away with extra time.

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I don't know why this is happening. So I'm very disappointed.

REP. PAT FALLON (R-TX): Oh, hell no. No, no, no. Hades no.

We're elected to lead, not kick the can down the road.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: Now, I'm told Republicans are still meeting behind closed doors. But this meeting got very heated, according to sources in the room.

At one point, there was a confrontation involving Matt Gaetz and another member, who started swearing at him, saying, this is all your fault. There was also members, including Jordan supporters, who got up and said, this is a self-serving move for Jordan, that he should get out of the race.

So things are very heated right now, very emotional. And so it's unclear whether there is a path forward for this resolution, whether Jordan is going to stick by it. The other wrinkle here is that it's going to take some Democratic votes to put up this resolution. They had their own meeting this morning, still weighing their options.

But, at this point, it looks like this might be the only potential viable option to end the chaos and reopen the House. And even that is looking like it's on thin ice at this point, guys.

SANCHEZ: The rifts, plural, rifts, are growing deeper. And we should know the government is supposed to shut down in less than a month.

KEILAR: That's right.

And we just heard former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi say...

SANCHEZ: Yes. KEILAR: ... that Democrats aren't going to go along with that. They

aren't going to provide their support. So perhaps Republicans should not be banking on it.

SANCHEZ: Melanie Zanona, thanks so much for the reporting.

Still ahead: Just one day before her trial was set to begin, Sidney Powell, that former Trump attorney and fierce defender of conspiracy theories, she just flipped, pleading guilty in the Georgia election subversion case.

What this could mean for former President Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:21:03]

SANCHEZ: We're back with some new developments out of Fulton County, Georgia. That's where one of former President Donald Trump's 18 co- defendants in the state's election interference case just flipped.

Sidney Powell, who was one of Donald Trump's fiercest defenders, going back to spinning conspiracy theories after the 2020 election, she has now pleaded guilty to six charges related to election subversion.

KEILAR: This is a deal that comes just one day before her trial was due to start.

And as part of this plea deal, she has agreed that she will testify in any future trials, which raises the possibility that she could testify against Trump in the future, which obviously is a huge deal.

Joining us now, we have CNN national security reporter Zach Cohen, also CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams.

OK, Zach, take us through the reporting on this. What else do we know about this agreement?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Brianna, this was a surprise from Sidney Powell, for, by all means, and every indication was that she was preparing to go to trial, she was not into a plea deal, or whatever the DA was offering her before.

But in the last 24 hours, prosecutors and her defense attorneys have been able to get together and hash out the terms of something they can both live with. And, for Sidney Powell, that means pleading guilty to misdemeanor. She was facing a felony, including a major RICO conspiracy felony that carried prison time if convicted.

Now she doesn't have to face a recommendation or recommendations about prison time. She's pleading to much less serious charges. And one of the cool things about this trial, one of the unique things is that there's cameras in the courtroom, right? So, even in terms of a surprise hearing today...

KEILAR: Cool for us as journalists, for sure. COHEN: Right.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: And everyone gets to see it.

So let's take a look at what -- when the judge walked through the terms of Sidney Powell's plea deal today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You understand that the recommendation being made to the court as to this accusation on counts one through six, that you would be sentenced to 12 months of probation to run consecutive with one another year?

SIDNEY POWELL, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: I do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You understand that state is asking that a $6,000 fine be imposed and restitution of two $2,700 be paid to the state of Georgia, an apology letter be written to the citizens of the state of Georgia, that you truthfully testify at all hearings and proceedings and trials involving the co-defendants in this matter, and that you have no communication with co-defendants, media or witnesses until this case has been completely closed against all defendants?

POWELL: I do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do you understand, as a special condition of this sentence, that you are to provide what you have already done, a proffer, a recorded proffer to the state and provide any documents and evidence subject to any lawful privileges asserted in a good-faith prior -- prior to entering this plea?

POWELL: I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So, in exchange, Sidney Powell agreeing to testify in all future hearings, and also hand over documents and evidence related to this case.

Obviously, given her proximity to Donald Trump during the -- or after the 2020 election, that could be pivotal in this case.

SANCHEZ: Yes. And part of her agreement also involves writing a letter of apology to the people of Georgia for trying to interfere in the election.

Elliot, how significant a development is this? I think part of the reason this was brought as a RICO case is precisely for this purpose, right?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So, in many respects, this is basic, and there's nothing to it. In many respects, this is quite profound. Now -- profound.

Now, it's basic in that, Boris, the overwhelming majority of criminal defendants end up pleading guilty. And this is no different. This is a case with 17 defendants in it, and a lot of them are going to plead guilty. Now, where it's something profound is that you have the attorney to one of the defendants, or at least someone who has worked with another defendant as an attorney, pleading guilty to a criminal offense.

This here, in this case, you are seeing a lot of attorneys getting implicated, from John Eastman, former attorney to President Trump, and Rudy Giuliani, all of these individuals. That's quite significant. They can provide firsthand testimony about things they saw, things they overheard.

And if prosecutors aren't satisfied with the evidence that's provided, they can yank this plea deal and put these folks to trial.

KEILAR: And what does it mean for Donald Trump? Because she was in this all-important meeting.

SANCHEZ: Right.

KEILAR: And intent is such an important part of this.

WILLIAMS: Right.

KEILAR: But that meeting could really speak to where Donald Trump's mind-set was on all of this.

WILLIAMS: Absolutely, it can.

And remember what's the nature of the attorney-client relationship. They were probably communicating with each other freely, under the assumption that they were speaking truthfully and the things that they said to each other wouldn't come out.

[13:25:06]

Now, because they were potentially engaging in the acts of a crime, all that now is available to the public. And so I think it could be firsthand -- assuming it's accurate and truthful and prosecutors are satisfied with what they hear, it could be incredibly valuable evidence about the state of mind of the president and what he sort of was privy to.

COHEN: And, also, the other Trump lawyers that are indicted in this case as well, Rudy Giuliani is a big name that Sidney Powell was interacting with in her auspice as a lawyer for Donald Trump.

They have a lot of direct conversations that she can shed light on as well.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

So, Elliot, what does this mean for Kenneth Chesebro? WILLIAMS: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Because he and Powell decided to separate their...

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Or got their cases separated from the other co-defendants, in part to have speedy trials. Does this make it more likely that he might flip?

WILLIAMS: I think it does, only insofar as he's now facing trial by himself. He's going to go to trial next week with or without her.

Again, I can't echo the point enough that most people do plead guilty, because you have a tremendous incentive to do so. You get a lower sentence if you do.

SANCHEZ: You don't go to prison.

WILLIAMS: You don't go to prison.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And Sidney Powell here is looking at six months of probation, rather than however long she might have spent in jail.

Even -- I can assure you, even in a white-collar prison, it's not a pleasant place. And a defendant such as Powell certainly had a huge incentive to do so. So he's still going to go to trial. He's scheduled to go to trial. Stay tuned. And who knows what happens between today and Monday.

KEILAR: This is just one of her legal woes, though, that she has kind of dispensed with or maybe minimized, I guess we could say.

She's an unindicted co-conspirator in the federal case. And then there are these defamation cases...

SANCHEZ: Right.

KEILAR: ... that have proved to be so expensive, and really maybe not advantageous to her in the outcome.

COHEN: Absolutely. We have identified her as one of the unidentified co-conspirators in Jack Smith's federal case, which also deals with efforts to overturn the 2020 election, so her legal future very uncertain in that regard, and then, like you mentioned, the civil matters, the defamation cases.

A lot of legal bills mounting up for Sidney Powell.

WILLIAMS: Just a quick point.

The thing that we showed there from inside the courtroom, it's pretty basic, and boilerplate. Judges read that to just about everybody. She has to testify truthfully, and because of the potential risk of what could come to her if she doesn't.

People see these plea agreements as prosecutors sort of locking themselves in, but they can yank this at any moment if -- and so she is not out of the woods yet. And...

SANCHEZ: So she can't plead the Fifth?

WILLIAMS: I mean, she can, but prosecutors could then revoke her plea agreement.

KEILAR: Yes, that's a very good thing to keep in mind.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KEILAR: Elliot, thank you. Zach, thank you so much for the great reporting.

The fight heating up between Israel and Hezbollah fighters in Southern Lebanon. Why the IDF says it is in the middle of a significant escalation and how Israel is responding. We will have that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)