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Source: Chesebro Offered Plea Deal, Unclear If He Will Accept; Protests In West Bank Against The War In Gaza; Rep. Victoria Spartz (R-IN), Is Interviewed About House To Hold Third Vote For Speaker. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired October 20, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST OF CNN'S FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: Spending what some estimate is $8 trillion? Have we become more secure because of it?

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: We heard the President with that warning last night again, learn from our mistakes after 9/11. Fareed, thank you. So look forward to the show this weekend. Appreciate it.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Just moments ago, the attorney for Kenneth Chesebro just arrived at an Atlanta area court. Chesebro is accused of being the architect of the fake electoral scheme on -- and was indicted on seven criminal charges. And CNN just learned he was offered a plea deal jury selection. And that trial is expected to begin today. CNN News Central continues right now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan here in New York. John Berman is off today. Our Sara Sidner is in Israel. We have a lot of breaking news happening right now in Israel, in Washington and potentially in Georgia. We're going to get to all of it right now.

Happening right now in Georgia, jury selection is underway at the Fulton County Courthouse there in the racketeering case against former Trump attorney, Kenneth Chesebro. You see his mug shot there. We've also learned that he has been offered a plea deal, and we could learn any moment if he's going to take that deal. Just yesterday we learned on this show, another person charged alongside Trump and Chesebro, Sidney Powell, she pleaded guilty as part of another plea deal and in doing so agreed to testify in future trials which would mean testifying against Donald Trump. We've got a lot going on here and it's playing out in court as we speak.

We've got CNN's Katelyn Polantz here in New York, Nick Valencia is outside court in Atlanta and Elie Honig joining us as well. Nick, let me start with you outside court, you broke the news about the plea deal being on the table, any details of what is in that offer and what is happening in court as we speak?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Kate. This source with knowledge of these discussions didn't give me the details of this plea deal, only to tell me that Ken Chesebro was offered the deal by the Fulton County District Attorney's Office. And those discussions went well into the evening last night. The source familiar with these discussions tells me it was not clear whether or not Ken Chesebro would take the deal.

But the likelihood of him cutting this deal with the district attorney's office did increase. After his codefendant, Sidney Powell, surprised everybody with her about face doing a complete 180 and pleading guilty herself to six misdemeanor counts. Ken Chesebro of course inextricably linked with the former president, a former attorney for the President and an architect of this so called fake electors scheme in 2020, to offer an alternate slate of electors to keep Trump's hope alive of contesting this election.

Now, let's be clear about this. If Ken Chesebro does take this deal, it would be a huge monumental even win for Fani Willis, who would narrow her case against the former president who really is the key here for the district attorney's office. Kate?

BOLDUAN: All right, Nick is going to get us updates from inside court. Katelyn Polantz, as I mentioned, is here with me in New York. The complexity around this, talk to me about what Ken Chesebro, what he's charged with and what we know about him and what this plea deal could mean?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, he's part of a much larger case that Fani Willis has brought against 19 defendants that includes Donald Trump. Donald Trump is at the top of the pyramid of those defendants. Ken Chesebro and Sidney Powell, the codefendant of all of them, Powell and Chesebro was set to go to trial first, outside of the rest of the 17.

And they're at the top of the pyramid as well. They are lawyers that were very close to Donald Trump that were connectors between Trump and others. Chesebro specifically had a lot of insight and was writing memos about the use of fake electors in battleground states. And so that's the area of this conspiracy, where he would have knowledge and a lot of focus.

But it's important to see what happens with these two because it was a trial for just these two people separate from the rest of the 17. But it's all one case. And so --

BOLDUAN: That's significant and worth. We have to talk about the details, because he's in, I was also just told, he is present in court right now as we speak, but it is the 30,000 foot view is also really important here.

POLANTZ: Absolutely. Because if Sidney Powell and Ken Chesebro were to have gone to trial or are going to trial with just Chesebro now as the defendant, that would be the prosecutors putting on their entire case against Donald Trump and all of the other defendants for these two individuals who would be before the jury as criminal defendants.

So Sidney Powell, she's not going to trial now because she's pleading guilty agreeing to cooperate. Ken Chesebro, we're waiting to see what he does as he's considering this plea offer that's on the table, something that happens that every criminal defendant is pretty much offered a plea deal to see if they want to take it before trial, what he does though is very crucial because if he chooses to take it, the trial goes away and it's back to the focus being on Donald Trump.

[09:05:14]

That is the trial that would happen first. And there are implications too for the federal case against Donald Trump. These things are not -- they operate separately in court. The prosecutor teams are separate. But what's being charged in the federal case against Donald Trump and Washington, D.C., there's a lot of the same players, a lot of the same information prosecutors had sought, and a lot of the same facts that would be on display before a jury and there's a trial against Donald Trump alone set for March in that federal case.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Elie, let me bring in Elie Honig right now, Katelyn, stay with me as well. And Elie, this would be -- Chesebro would be and he is in court right now. So we're going to have updates coming out. He would be the third Trump codefendant to take a plea deal if he agrees to it. What's your view on what this could mean?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, OK, first of all, we're watching closely to see whether he takes this plea deal or not. It is not at all uncommon to see people plead guilty on the eve of trial, as we may see here, in a few minutes. There's nothing like having a trial looming right in front of you to focus the mind both ways defendants get nervous, if they get convicted, they could go to prison, prosecutors see a way to avoid the trial and to get a conviction on the books.

And in this case, as Katelyn pointed out, if they get a plea deal with Kenneth Chesebro, we're not going to have this early trial that was supposed to happen next week. It was supposed to be Sidney Powell and Ken Chesebro. Both if Chesebro pleads today, then they're both gone and there will not be an early trial, which is a good thing for the DA because then they don't have to put on their entire case and let Trump's team sit back and watch it.

Of course, the biggest question to watch for if Chesebro does take a guilty plea, will it be a cooperation deal? Because not all guilty pleas require cooperation. There is such a thing as just a straight up guilty plea. You would make your guilt.

BOLDUAN: Yes. What goes into that Elie?

HONIG: Yes. Well, so from the prosecutors point of view, the first question is, how badly do you need and want the testimony from Kenneth Chesebro? There's a situation where sometimes you say, look, it'd be great to just plead them out, not have to try him, not have to worry about it. We don't need his testimony. There's another situation where you say, we really want his testimony. Therefore, we're not going to give him a deal unless he agrees to testify. That's the kind of deal they struck with Sidney Powell yesterday.

BOLDUAN: Katelyn, are these like dominoes that are kind of knocking into each other and forcing them to fall? I mean, first it started with Scott Hall, he took a plea deal. People won't remember much about his deal, kind of a smaller player, if you will, in the grand scheme of this racketeering case. And then you have Sidney Powell. And maybe then you have Ken Chesebro. Is this does have a domino effect?

POLANTZ: It very much can. And it's very possible. We haven't heard from Sidney Powell directly or her lawyers about why she changed her mind. But, you know, they were starting to get evidence. And one of the things in the evidence that they were realizing and seeing is that another person, Scott Hall, he's a bail bondsman in Georgia, he's part of this conspiracy case as well.

He was charged as one of the 19. He was the first defendant to take a plea deal and plead guilty agree to cooperate. And the area that he pled guilty in was about what happened in Coffee County, Georgia, this rural area where there was an attempt to breach voting systems and get voter data there. That also is what Sidney Powell is admitting to as part of her plea deal and the things that she's pleading guilty to, the specific charges.

And so Hall was about Coffee County. I would imagine that would be something that would put pressure on Sidney Powell to think through, does she want to go to trial now that they have this cooperating witness? And then with Powell yesterday, of course, Ken Chesebro would think, do I want to go to trial now that Sidney Powell is cooperating witness, another lawyer that was in the White House that was around Trump in the Trump campaign after the election?

And as Ken Chesebro think, do I want to go to trial by myself? It was going to be both he and Sidney Powell, now just him. And so that's probably something that he's very likely considering weighing on him this morning, as the jury selection is going to beginning. Does he want to be the only person to go to trial on these 2020 election massive conspiracy case against Donald Trump and others first? Or does he want to do something that could potentially reduce the prison time he faces? What choice does he have? There's a lot of factors going into it.

BOLDUAN: And we're seeing a live picture here into the courtroom in Fulton County, Georgia, and we're going to -- we're listening in for updates as well. It looks like the judge left the chair. I thought I saw him there and a second ago. We'll continue to track this. But Elie while we're watching this, if Donald Trump's legal team, if Ken Chesebro takes a plea deal, how does that change what they would potentially know before -- about the case that they would need to be putting on? And what have they been lost if this plea deal would, if he accepts a plea deal, and there's no more early trial?

[09:10:23]

HONIG: So it cuts both ways. I think if you're Donald Trump's lawyers. On the one hand if he cooperates, that's not good news for Donald Trump. You have one more person, one more insider, who will be telling his story to prosecutors and potentially testifying. And again, even if Chesebro had limited or no direct contact with Donald Trump, remember, this is charged as a broad racketeering conspiracy. So Chesebro will be able to give testimony that explains that conspiracy, what the overall goal was here to try to steal the election.

On the other hand, if you're Donald Trump's attorney, and there is a guilty plea here, you're a little disappointed, because now you're not going to get to sit back and watch the early trial. Now you're not going to get to sit back, see all the government's witnesses, take notes and sort of adjust your own strategy accordingly. So Trump's team will have win and half lose if there's a guilty plea that comes through especially if it involves cooperation by Kenneth Chesebro.

BOLDUAN: All right, Ken Chesebro's attorney in the courtroom now. This is going to be happening a few minutes. We're going to keep a close ear to this and eye on this. We'll bring you updates as they come in. Elie, thank you so much. Katelyn, thank you as well. Nick Valencia outside the courthouse, we're going to have updates coming in for him.

Coming up for us, the IDF is saying this morning, that the majority of the hostages captured by Hamas are still alive. What more detailed we're getting about that, we will bring to you.

And also then the developments on Capitol Hill, Jim Jordan is not backing down. The congressman said that he's pushing forward for a third vote on the House floor as he tries again to become the next speaker of the House. It's all about to unfold. We'll take you there.

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[09:16:07]

BOLDUAN: And then we have more breaking news coming out of Israel this morning. The IDF announced this morning that a majority, is how they describe it, of the hostages taken by Hamas terrorists and are -- that are in Gaza now are alive. Now we are talking about men, women, children who were kidnapped during that brutal assault and massacre in that terror attack by Hamas nearly two weeks ago.

It is unclear what the IDF though means by a majority at this moment. And when asked for more information, Israeli officials are not offering them. But we also don't know how they know this. But they did confirm the following, 20 of the hostages are children under the age of 18 and 10 to 20 are older than 60 years old. It's not clear the exact number of hostages being held. But the IDF says as many as 200 people are missing.

Now the update comes just hours after thousands of Israeli troops stay or started staging right now, are just outside of Gaza. They're staged just outside of Gaza. And they have been told that they will soon be seeing Gaza quote, from the inside. We are also and have been seeing and are seeing today, more protests across the Arab world protesting against Israel, protesting for the Palestinians. Sara Sidner was in the West Bank just this morning.

And we want to play for you what happened in the middle of her report. Before we roll this, please know that Sara and her crew, they are fine. But this shows just how tense the situation on the ground is becoming.

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SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Just a few moments ago, we heard gunfire likely from the Israeli military that is posted up. I'm going to try to give you a bit of a shot of it. But let me show you what's happening here. People came after the Friday prayers, they came to march in solidarity with the Palestinians in Gaza who are dealing with both a humanitarian crisis, no food, no water, no fuel, but also with a crisis of just getting the air strikes over and over and over again, which has killed so many civilians who are not part of the government, not part of the government that runs that place, that strip, Hamas.

So you are seeing this sort of solidarity that was called for, by the way by Hamas, all over the Arab world and the world of like. But you are also seeing the journalists gather here because this is kind of where the clashes happens, so all right --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are genocide supporters. You are not welcome here, genocide supporters. -- CNN, -- CNN. Genocide supporters.

SIDNER: All right, you see that people are very angry. They do not like the way in which that CNN has been reporting this story. You hear that. But this is (inaudible). But what you are seeing in the heightened fear, anger, frustration with what's happening in general, whether it is -- the general anger of people feel that Israel is getting more support than the Palestinians and the Palestinians feel they're getting bombed and losing a lot of life.

I mean, we're talking upwards of 3,000 people now killed, 10,000 or plus who have been injured in Gaza. Here in the West Bank by the way, there have been 67 people plus who have been killed. What watch out, there's ambulance coming, in every now and then you have tensions flare. This is what happened to this region but this is different. And that there is a full scale official war that has been declared by Israel.

[09:20:10]

And they may, going forward, go in to Gaza on the ground. And there is a huge fear, huge fear from people here that that is going to turn into an unbelievable massacre much worse than what has already occurred from the airstrikes. That's the situation here in Ramallah. There are very few actually comparatively protesters to compare it to other places. Jordan has a huge number of protesters. We're seeing that in Lebanon as well.

But, you know, this is how people are responding because they feel they can't do anything else. But come out and decry what is happening to Palestinians in Gaza.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Again, that was our Sara Sidner earlier this morning. We're staying in close touch with Sara and her crew throughout the day.

Let's get now to CNN's Matthew Chance, he's in northern Israel where Israelis there are under a voluntary, now we've known from parts as shelling from with Hezbollah and Lebanon kind of is building up and ratcheting up. Matthew, what are you seeing there and hearing?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate. Well, look, tensions are very high up here as well. And you know, a lot of people very anxious, a lot of Israelis very anxious about the fact that they've been told by or advised by the Israeli government now to evacuate their homes. I'm here in the town of Qiryat Shemona. There's just over 20,000 people here. And that order came through this morning.

It's voluntary. They don't have to go if they don't want to. But we are seeing an uptick in the number of rockets being fired across the border from Hezbollah positions in Lebanon, into these areas in northern Israel. And of course, as the Israeli military prepares to go into Gaza, as we anticipate it will over the next couple of days perhaps, then the threat of rocket strike from Lebanon, from Hezbollah, from Syria as well is growing.

And that's why this order to evacuate, this advice to evacuate has been issued buses are being sent people out. Also within the course of the day, there's been an incursion by armed individuals, armed gunman from Lebanese territory into Israel through a border fence. Three of those gunmen were killed, according to the Israeli Defense Forces. But there's another one person, another one gunman who is still at large somewhere in this area in northern Israel.

And so earlier, we saw a big or the edge of a big security operation underway to try and find that person who is said to be armed in this part of northern Israel. And, of course, given the experience of Israelis last week, I mean, there's a particular sensitivity to the damage that could be done by just one gunman who's come in on this occasion from Lebanon. So that's added even more tension to this very volatile situation in northern Israel. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. I mean, just even hearing that we've have incursions coming in from Lebanon, raising the stakes of what a two front war would mean for Israel, if that's what they could be looking at. Matthew, thank you very much. We're going to stay close with Matthew in northern Israel.

[09:23:26]

Coming up still for us, we're also going to head back to Washington. Jim Jordan moving ahead with today's vote to try to find another House speaker, he is trying to win over support. He is trying to convince his fellow Republicans to stick with him. This would be the third vote this week where Jim Jordan hopes. Republican congresswoman joining us live next and how she sees this playing out.

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BOLDUAN: Jim Jordan is taking the fight to the floor once again. This is the 17th day that the House of Representatives has no speaker and facing this really unprecedented turmoil within Congress and within the Republican Party in the House. They're headed to a third vote. If you have whiplash, you're not alone. Yesterday, about this time, Jordan was saying that he would not seek a third vote. But now that vote is back on. Speaking to reporters just this morning, Jim Jordan suggested now that this fight could stretch into the weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): We had a good conversation. And we'll continue to do that. But as I point out, the fastest way to get to work for the American people is to elect a speaker so the House can be open and we can get things done. Our plan this weekend is to get a speaker elected to the House of Representatives as soon as possible so we can help the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining me right now, Republican congresswoman from Indiana, Victoria Spartz. Congresswoman, thank you for coming in. To remind everyone with regard to this speaker votes to this point, you voted against Jim Jordan in the first vote. You voted for Jim Jordan in the second vote. Now going into a third vote, what are you going to do today?

REP. VICTORIA SPARTZ (R-IN): Well, listen, my first vote was an objection that we didn't stay last weekend and figure out differences and then we went to the floor instead of having 217. So I objected that it didn't vote for Jim. I voted in the second one. First of all, Representative Tom Cole did an amazing speech and he said that we'll be dealing with real issues for the American people like border security and that commission but also give Jim another chance.

[09:30:04]

But I still insist and I told him personally that if you cannot get the vote on the floor.