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Israel At War; Chesebro Takes A Plea Deal In Georgia; 2 American Hostage Released; Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 20, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:40]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Good afternoon. I'm Brianna Keilar with Boris Sanchez here in Washington and we're following breaking developments in the Middle East.

Today, the Israel Defense Forces say that the majority of hostages captured by Hamas are still alive. The terror group claims that it will free them if there is a pause in fighting. The Red Cross has been in touch with Hamas seeking access to those captives. And Russia says Kremlin officials have communicated with Hamas about hostage releases.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: On the military front, the IDF says it is now prepared for a broader conflict. And as the world braces for the next phase of its operations, potentially a move into Gaza, the carnage continues there. The latest, a Greek Orthodox Church compound leveled by an IDF airstrike. We're looking at video of it now. CNN can't independently confirm the number of casualties but the Health Ministry in Gaza says that 17 people were killed.

KEILAR: In the meantime, trucks with food, water and medicine are still idling at the Rafah Border Crossing, which is between Egypt and Gaza in the south, days after Gazans were first promised that aid would arrive. The UN Secretary General was there pleading for movement as protests broke out across the Arab world.

Let's start now with CNN's Nic Robertson. He is in Sderot, Israel. So, Nic, the IDF is still staging for what looks like a ground invasion, as several entities are now in contact with Hamas. Actually, tell us what's going on where you are. It appears that there may be some missiles incoming.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: There were missiles fired out of Gaza. I saw a salvo about seven or eight missiles fired out. What we were showing you just there with the intercepts from the Iron Dome that was fired to intercept these missiles that appeared to be sort of heading north east out of Gaza. And I'm hearing a heavy detonation of fighter jet came on station right after we heard those -- saw those rockets coming out of Gaza.

It was very, very clear. Sometimes you just see the tail afterglow of the rockets coming out of Gaza. But you could see these very clear streaks of amber light flashing through the sky, disappearing as they are at top. And then, they're intercepts with the Iron Dome. It's been a relatively quiet day, in fact a very quiet day until this moment. This is the first outgoing that we've seen perhaps in six or seven hours. There were a few salvos earlier in the day, but there have been really almost no artillery and no Israeli missile strikes going into Gaza today. Very, very quiet. Which really gave the impression that behind the scenes, talks about humanitarian aid going into Gaza, talks about possible hostage release, it all seemed to create an atmosphere that there were talks of some nature going on because that was the only thing, or perhaps unlikely thing that might have contributed to why the situation felt a little quiet. Anyway, that quiet was broken there with that salvo of missiles fired out of Gaza that have now been intercepted.

SANCHEZ: Nic, back to the question of hostages. Several entities are now in contact with Hamas, about getting them released. Bring us up to speed on where that stands now.

ROBERTSON: Yes. It's been an effort by many different interlocutors or many different countries to try to find interlocutors because Hamas is holding so many different nationals. Hamas doesn't have all the hostages. Palestinian Islamic Jihad also has some decent fighters across in that attack almost two weeks ago now. So, Israeli officials, the IDF, government officials know that the majority of the hostages are alive.

One of the principal interlocutors to get the hostages released has been Qatar that works very closely with the United States, because it has a political office in Doha for Hamas. So it has a political, a direct political face to face connection with Hamas' political leaders who are not inside of Gaza. So it has a mechanism and that is believed that the Qataris had been one of the principal interlocutors.

[13:05:08]

But part of the difficulty is establishing what Hamas will settle for in terms of the hostage release, what conditions they want impose, first, what they want in exchange, what Israel is willing to accept as well. It has appeared the UN secretary general yesterday, when he was speaking about this, spoke about it in these terms, that if there was a humanitarian pause and humanitarian aid going into Gaza, he seemed to imply in an unrestricted way, that that would satisfy a part of a negotiation that would trigger Hamas potentially releasing hostages.

But it's not easy. We know that the International Committee for the Red Cross, which is the global international body, that deals with prisoners in different countries, hostages that negotiates with governments, the ICRC, the International Committee for the Red Cross is a sort of committee that can deal with groups like the Taliban in Afghanistan. They have said that they have not been able to see or be in touch with the hostages so far, because Hamas has not allowed them to do that.

So I think there's a huge amount of the -- about the hostages we don't know. But I think the world turns to Qatar at this moment in time to see what they can do.

KEILAR: Right. We'll be looking for that. Nic Robertson, thank you so much. Please stay safe where you are.

And across the Middle East, and also North Africa, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Yemen, Iran, Turkey, Morocco, Egypt to so many locations, we're seeing these mass demonstrations in support of Palestinians that are just packing public squares.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: We want to take you now to Amman, Jordan where CNN's Nada Bashir has been speaking to protesters. Nada, what is it like there? What are you hearing from them?

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Well, you can see behind me, this crowd is enormous. They've been shouting and chanting that they want free Palestinian people. They are expressing their solidarity with the Palestinian people. It is very loud, very crowded here so I'm going to keep this microphone quite close to my mouth so you can hear me.

But just take a look. I mean, the scale of this protest is huge. And this is something that we have been seeing pretty much every night here in Amman, Jordan. As you mentioned, this is taking place across the Middle East and even further afield. You've seen protests in London, Washington, DC, New York, across Europe, but it was in the Middle East, and particularly here in Jordan.

This is a cause, an issue that is deeply close to many people across the country where more than half of the population are either Palestinian or a Palestinian descent. And what we've seen is an outpouring of solidarity for the Palestinian people, for Palestinians, in particular, in the Gaza Strip. But also outrage, deep-seated anger being directed towards Israel for continued airstrikes and the siege on the Gaza Strip, but also anger towards Western allies and the United States.

Now, we were at a March earlier this morning, which took place after Friday prayers. Thousands of people taking part in that marched through downtown Amman, including families, young children, all wearing the traditional Palestinian scarf, waving Palestinian flags. This is a huge cause in this country.

And as we continue to see these airstrikes ramping up, as the siege continues, these protests are only getting stronger. They are not letting up. And where we are right now is where a lot of the focus has been towards. We're quite close to the Israeli embassy, and that is where many of these demonstrators have focused their attention. But you can hear, they are deeply passionate about this issue and not as the same --

SANCHEZ: Looks like we're having some issues there with Nada, issues of signal. Obviously we're going to stay on top of every angle of that story. But there is breaking news back here.

KEILAR: That's right. Let's go straight to Katelyn Polantz. As we understand the attorney for Ken Chesebro, a Trump attorney who just took a plea deal in Georgia was just speaking. What can you tell us, Katelyn? KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN REPORTER: Well, Brianna and Boris, there's not going to be a trial until Donald Trump is set to go in trial, as far as we know now, in Georgia. There was supposed to be the trial of Ken Chesebro and Sidney Powell. Starting today, in Fulton County, that is cancelled because both of those codefendants of Donald Trump who wanted to go first, and we're daring the prosecutors to try their case. They both are pleading guilty to various crimes that they are charged with in Georgia related to the 2020 election.

In Chesebro, in court this morning or this afternoon, just after noon, taking this guilty plea deal agreeing to cooperate and also as part of this deal implicating Donald Trump. Essentially he's admitting that he was coordinating with the Trump campaign to organize fake electors in the state of Georgia and elsewhere, get them together so that there could be an effort to overturn the election or stall the certification, the transfer of power of the presidency in Washington DC in January of 2021.

[13:10:17]

Here is what a prosecutor outline today as all of the things that Ken Chesebro is agreeing that he did after the 2020 election as part of a felony plea deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The defendant created and distributed false Electoral College documents to individuals in Georgia and other states in coordination with Donald John Trump for President Inc, also known as the Trump campaign. The defendant provided detailed instructions to coconspirators in Georgia and other states for creating and distributing these false documents. Three coconspirator, Donald John Trump and John Charles Eastman solicited the director of the Republican National Committee to assist in recruiting persons to serve as fake electors in Georgia as well as in other states. Coconspirators Rudolph William Louis Giuliani solicited persons to serve as false electors and provide strategic instructions to several coconspirators concerning the execution of the conspiracy in multiple states.

Five coconspirator, David James Shafer, Shawn Mica (ph), Tysher Steel (ph) and Kathleen Austin Latham (ph) and others met at the Georgia State Capitol in Fulton County, Georgia on December the 14th 2020 created false Electoral College documents that falsely stated that the coconspirator Donald John Trump had received all of Georgia's Electoral College votes and delivered those false Electoral College documents to Congress and other governmental entities. The coconspirators also attempted to deliver a copy of the false Electoral College documents to the Northern District of Georgia for the purposes of filing, entering and recording those documents in that court, having reason to know that those documents contain materially false statements that the coconspirators were the duly-elected and qualified presidential electors of the state of Georgia.

The defendant was personally also personally present on the grounds of the United States Capitol during the disruption and delay of the joint session of Congress on January the 6th. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So, Boris and Brianna, the headline there is that what Scott Grubman, the attorney for Ken Chesebro, has agreed to as part of this plea deal that Ken Chesebro is admitting to, is that he's pleading to one charge, a conspiracy to file false documents in the state of Georgia. Those fake electors certificates. And that conspiracy part of this charge, that's very important because that means that Ken Chesebro, the attorney who was working with Donald Trump and the campaign, Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman and others, the other people charged in this case. He's admitting to being part of that group taking the efforts together.

That's quite a significant step forward for not just the district attorney, Fani Willis, but the entire shape of this case. While Chesebro was expected to go to trial today by himself, after his codefendant Sidney Powell pleaded guilty yesterday. That trial is not happening. And now this case is left with Donald Trump and several others, including Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, Mark Meadows, many boldface names, other lawyers that were working at that same level as Ken Chesebro, Sidney Powell and others, they all will now be going to trial at a later date together. So there wasn't going to be now a trial where Ken Chesebro would be trying his case as the only defendant that the jury would be looking at and maybe pointing to Donald Trump or prosecutors having to speak about Donald Trump with Donald Trump not in the room.

SANCHEZ: Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much for the update. Let's get some legal perspective now from former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti. Renato, thanks for joining us.

So here, Kenneth Chesebro essentially acknowledges that he conspired with Donald Trump, Johnny Smith, Rudy Giuliani and others. What does that mean for the Fulton County DA's case going forward?

RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It certainly helps. Look, the way that this was set up. These attorneys were going to have their trial first. I think they went out in front and tried to do that because they recognized at a joint trial with Donald Trump and John Eastman and others. Ultimately what was going to happen is Donald Trump and others were going to be pointing fingers at the attorneys and saying the attorneys put them up to it. The attorneys blessed this and said it was OK.

Now instead of having that dynamic where the defendants are pointing fingers at each other, now the attorneys are going to say we committed crimes, and these people were part of it. And I think that makes the DHS case stronger, and I also think it creates problems for some of the other defendants including some of the other attorneys like Jenna Ellis.

KEILAR: Is he a stronger witness than Sidney Powell?

[13:15:00]

MARIOTTI: It's not possible to be a weaker witness than Sidney Powell. I suppose Rudy Giuliani is up there on the weak witness category as well but Sidney Powell has told so many untruths that I think it's hard to take her seriously. Kenneth Chesebro is a more serious person, although he has some problems himself after all. He was the one and emails talking about this as a fake electors scheme.

And, look, anybody who's a convicted felon, anyone who is part of deal with the government is subject to criticism. But now the DA has two witnesses and one advantage of a, I would say, a shotgun approach where you're charging a lot of different people with a lot of different crimes, is if you fire a shotgun into a crowd, you're going to hit somebody. And, you know, she's gotten a -- she's back a couple of targets and potentially, potentially more.

SANCHEZ: And notably, Powell and Chesebro in their agreements, they have also agreed to testify and future trials, including Jack Smith's federal election subversion case. If you're part of Donald Trump's defense team, none of this is good.

MARIOTTI: Absolutely not, absolutely not. I mean, there's certainly a wall that is breaking down for Donald Trump here. And part of that is an advantage that the DA had in charging attorneys. Attorneys have a lot of downside, it is very challenging. And I think for people in their position, the idea of spending time in a State Penitentiary in Georgia is not a particularly appealing proposition.

So, you know, they tried an aggressive move by seeking an early trial. I do think it had some value for them, because I think it encouraged the DA to offer them a deal, because she didn't want to preview all of her evidence before, you know, she was going to be going up against Trump at a subsequent trial. But ultimately, at the end of the day, they had to plead guilty to crimes.

Ken Chesebro, the more serious, you know, plea, obviously, he pled guilty to, you know, play a felony. But, you know, ultimately, at the end of the day, you know, they were, you know, they've ultimately turned to the government team, the prosecution team.

KEILAR: All right. Renato, thank you so much. We do appreciate your insights on a very big news story today, Kenneth Chesebro also taking a plea deal here in the Georgia case.

SANCHEZ: Now, we do want to bring you some breaking news, though. Right now CNN's Alex Marquardt has that for us. Alex, this has to do with the hostages that were being held in Gaza by Hamas?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris and Brandi. We understand that two of the American hostages who had been held by Hamas are on their way out of the Gaza Strip. We've just learned this from a person who is familiar with the discussions as well as a diplomatic source. We've spoken to my colleague Kaitlan Collins.

As we know from the Israelis, there had been around 200 hostages who have been held by that militant group, by Hamas since the horrific attacks inside Israel on October 7. What we understand from these two sources is that the two Americans are a mother and a daughter. They are currently we're told with the Red Cross and heading south in the Gaza Strip.

There are two crossings in southern Gaza, one that goes into Egypt, the other that goes into Israel. So right now we're not sure about which country they will be going into. We're also unclear on the identities of this mother and child but we are told that they are being released on humanitarian grounds. That's according to a source that I spoke with because the mother is not in good health.

Now at Boris and Brianna, this has also been announced by Hamas. A spokesman for the militant group said that the mother and daughter are also being released, they say, on humanitarian grounds, but also because they want to contest the claims being made by Biden and what they call his fascist administration, because there are false and baseless.

So we have this mother and daughter, American citizens who have been held by Hamas for much of the past two weeks. Now, we understand with the Red Cross on their way out of Gaza. Guys?

SANCHEZ: And, Alex, to clarify quickly that the next steps, is it clear exactly where they're headed next? Is it going to be Egypt or Israel? What do we know?

MARQUARDT: No. There are two crossings, two gates in the southern part of Gaza. One called Kerem Shalom, which is between Gaza and Israel, the other one Rafah, which we've been talking about so much because of the question about aid, and that is where the aid would go from Egypt into Gaza. So right now, it is not clear, Boris.

Certainly they were abducted in Israel, we know that. So there is of course, a good chance that that could be then taken back into Israel. But at the same time, it may just be easier for whatever reason logistics operationally security to have them go into Egypt.

[13:20:02]

But I think one of the important points is now they're with an independent party. They're with the Red Cross. And so, that is the best news. They are no longer, we understand, in Hamas custody, although, of course, Hamas does control the entire Gaza Strip.

So this is not a done deal. Things are still obviously extremely fluid. But here we have both our sources outside of Gaza, as well as Hamas themselves saying that these two Americans are being released.

KEILAR: All right. Alex, I want to bring in Kaitlan Collins who is in Tel Aviv, the two of you reported this story out. Kaitlan, is there anything, and I don't even know if there's an answer to this at this point. But can we read into anything at this point if the -- they're being released because the mother is in poor health, could this be an acknowledgement on the part of Hamas that they need to perhaps release people who are not doing well, that they want people who maybe are in good health if they are going to be using them as pawns, as they perhaps later try to utilize them in some kind of prisoner exchange? Can we read into anything at this point? KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: I think a lot of that remains to be seen. I mean, this was a big question when Hamas had captured so many of these hostages and taken them out into Gaza after that October 7 attack. That was a question, was if they are going to try to use them, as we had seen in the past, when Hamas had kidnapped an IDF officer that there was a lot of negotiation over that, it took years. And in the end, Israel released I believe there's about 1,000 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for that Israeli officer.

And so, that was the kind of the basis that people were looking at these hostages and the questions over what would happen here. And we've heard Israeli officials say they were not negotiating with Hamas for an exchange for the hostages.

But this news is incredibly significant. I mean, these hostages, of course, there has been an open question of what their fate would be what would happen, especially as we are waiting to see that ground incursion potentially happen. And I can just tell you, we have not heard anything from the Prime Minister's office here in Tel Aviv tonight on the release of these two American hostages that Alex and I have reporting on. They have not confirmed it. We are waiting to see what they say about this. We also have not heard from the White House on this front either.

But I just want to tell you, this is something that is still every single day here in Tel Aviv everywhere in Israel. This is something that everyone's talking about. Of course, Shabbat happens on Friday evenings, this is when everyone their family, their friends, get together and have a dinner in the Jewish faith. And earlier, we went to this ceremony for all of these families of these hostages. And they had this incredibly long dining table setup with a seat for every person who is believed to have been taken hostage by Hamas, and therefore will not be with their families for Shabbat dinner. And it was an incredibly emotional moment.

And so just this news in and of itself, that two of them have been released, that they are alive, it is something that is going to be hopeful to these families who are waiting for any peace, any scrap of information about their loved ones. And so, of course, the question remains, what happens to the other hostages, what does that look like going forward? I think there are still so many questions for these two American hostages that are being released, including where they are going to be released into, whether that's Egypt, whether that's here into Israel, those are still big questions, and we're still waiting for details of what that looks like. And also, Brianna, as you mentioned, what it could mean for the others and how Hamas plans to use them.

One other thing I will say that we talked about last night, and this was in an interview with the New York Times. Hamas leader said that they are not even in control over all the hostages, but there are other terrorist groups, obviously in Gaza, and they did not have full control over them. Obviously something that would complicate getting the release of these other hostages.

SANCHEZ: Kaitlan, please standby. We want to bring in Jim Sciutto now. Because, Jim, you just spoke to a longtime hostage representative.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. I spoke to Jonathan Franks who, I'm sure you've spoken with him before. He's been involved, for instance, in the release of the American Trevor Reed from Russia, also worked on the trafficking case in North Korea. And I asked him what, in his experience, a release like this might indicate.

He said, given the number of hostages that Hamas is holding, to release two could be an attempt just to relieve the pressure somewhat. I mean, you're in the midst of a quite aggressive, devastating Israeli air campaign threat of a ground offensive demands for humanitarian supplies, to relieve the pressure does not necessarily portend that all the hostages are going to be free quickly. He makes the point and Kaitlan made this point as well, that in previous hostage exchanges with Hamas, they've demanded a great deal in return particularly when it involves a soldier, for instance, Gilad Shalit, a thousand Palestinian prisoners were released.

So it may be, as you look at this, that you have different kinds of hostages. Here's a mother and daughter apparently that the mother in ill health. They can make the case that this is more of a humanitarian case. For soldiers they might feel differently for men of military age, they might deal differently as well.

[13:25:11]

But again, Hamas is a group that takes hostages. Hamas is a group that kills civilians. We don't need more evidence of that. A decision like this does not mean Hamas has changed, it means that it sees something -- it wants something in return or it sees this as being in their advantage. And perhaps there was some pressure applied from outside as well.

KEILAR: Yes. And, Alex, I understand you have some information about how this negotiation went down?

MARQUARDT: Well, Jim is absolutely right in terms of the pressure being applied from outside. Hamas is considered a terrorist organization, of course, by not just Israel but the United States as well. And that means that those two countries don't have direct dialogue with Hamas. So in this situation, and this has been the case for much of the past two weeks since these 200 or so people were taken, is that it was primarily Qatar that was engaging with Hamas. They are the main conduit for Israel and US to talk to that militant group.

Qatar has several Hamas leaders who live in their capital in Doha. So this really has been the portfolio that the US has asked Qatar to undertake.

When Secretary Antony Blinken was crisscrossing the region going to all these different Middle Eastern countries, he very quickly went to Qatar. And that was because they have this direct line into Hamas. And so, here this is, both according to the sources that we have spoken with, but also Hamas themselves, the results of this negotiation between Hamas and Qatar. But no doubt the presence of these still around 200 hostages who will still be, you know, in the custody of Hamas and other groups who understand, or subgroups, all across the Gaza Strip that is going to wildly complicate the efforts of the Israeli military, who of course, we believe are going to go into Gaza on the ground any day now.

We've been talking about this sprawling network of tunnels throughout the Gaza Strip. We understand that the hostages may be in those tunnels, maybe in the bunkers. And so as Israel goes into try to decapitate the Hamas, military and political leadership, not only are they trying to minimize the civilian death toll on the Palestinian side, but they're obviously trying to make sure that that nothing happens to these hostages and try to get them out.

So while Israel is saying that they're not going to be negotiating with Hamas over these hostages, this effort by Qatar will be ongoing to try to get more than just these two Americans out.

SANCHEZ: Alex, I wanted to pick up off a point that Kaitlan Collins just made, a Hamas spokesperson saying that these hostages were being held by different groups. It's also difficult to get a read on just how many hostages there are, not only because of that but according to this spokesperson, because of continued bombing in Gaza.

So, does Israeli intelligence, does US intelligence have an actual number? Do they know how many hostages there are still being held captive, and how many Americans specifically?

MARQUARDT: Well, unlike with the death toll that we have sadly seen grow over the course of the past two weeks, the number of hostages has fluctuated. That too has grown. And essentially, Boris and Brianna, this is a process of deduction. The Israelis and other countries who have citizens who have been missing, they have been able to figure out who has been killed, who has surfaced, thankfully, and then who are still missing. And so, they have been able to narrow that number down but haven't put a specific point on it. It is hovering, we understand, around 200.

We should also make the point that not only are these hostages, we believe, spread out between Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, which is another Iranian-backed allied group, but different groups within Hamas is the belief. So that thing makes things extremely complicated.

On the humanitarian front, in this humanitarian excuse or reason that Hamas is giving for releasing these to Americans. Keep in mind, guys, that it is extremely difficult for militant groups, for anyone really to have 200 prisoners. You have to keep them safe if you plan to use them as leverage. You need to keep them fed. It is a big lift. So if indeed this American mother is not doing well, it is certainly a burden for Hamas and perhaps in their interest to allow these two Americans to leave and to hand them back over.

But to Kaitlan's earlier point, no doubt that Hamas is going to try to use these prisoners as leverage. Whether it's to release the hundreds of Palestinians who are in Israeli prisons, whether it's to get more aid into the country, whether it's to call for a ceasefire, these are all things that we've that we've heard considered. Certainly Hamas is going to try to use them to their benefit.

KEILAR: And, Jim, I mean, the mother is reportedly here and in poor health, let's just consider the state of hospitals right now in Gaza, the state of medical care is awful.