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WH Briefing As U.S. Asks Israel To Delay Gaza Ground War; Reports: Trump Told Mar-A-Lago Member About His Calls With Foreign Leaders While President. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 23, 2023 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

ADM. JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: And it's not exactly clear to us where those 10 people are. So, I would still categorize it as about a handful.

And I know that's not the specificity you want. But that's really as detailed as I think I should get today.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: One last issue. There's a dual national from Maryland, a young man who went to serve the IDF, who was killed in action. Can you speak to that situation? If the president has reached the family or had any intention to do that, any particulars?

KIRBY: Well, we certainly offer our deepest condolences to the family. That's news no mom or dad ever want to get.

I don't have any communications to speak to it one way or the other. But again, our thoughts and prayers go to the family, sure.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: John, on a post-Hamas Gaza, if that were to happen, is there anything you could share on what conversation the U.S. is having as what that post-Hamas Gaza would look like?

KIRBY: Really, that's going to be a conversation that Israeli officials, you know, need to start having amongst themselves.

And I think, again, without speaking to them, I don't think I'm going too far to say that the focus right now is ongoing after Hamas, where they are in Gaza. Getting humanitarian assistance in. Getting people out. That's where our focus is.

And I know the focus of the Israeli counterparts is certainly on prosecuting the operations against Hamas.

I think the issue of governance in Gaza certainly is not unimportant. But I wouldn't speak for the Israelis in terms of how deeply they're diving down into what that could look like.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) -- conversation?

(CROSSTALK)

KIRBY: We have talked to the Israelis about their aims and strategies, that includes the long-term issues that are out ahead of them. But I think you can understand appropriately right now, the focus is on the operational picture.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: With the normalization process, you can say if Saudi Arabia has provided a list of requests for what they'd like to see with the talks to start again between Saudi Arabia and Israel?

KIRBY: I'm not tracking or aware of a specific threat now. You're talking post-October 7th. I'm not aware of some sort of new list or homework assignment that they've submitted.

We still believe that those talks are important. We still want to pursue normalization.

We understand that both, in Israel and, of course, in Riyadh, there's a different focus. We get that. But we do think there's still a pursuing normalization, and we have every intention of keeping that going.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you, Admiral.

What kind of humanitarian aid would the U.S. like to see reaching the Palestinians before Israel launches a ground invasion?

KIRBY: Let's try to bifurcate that question because I don't -- I'm not going to sit here and assume there's going to be some sort of a ground invasion. I'm certainly not going to speak to hypothetical timing if there's going to be.

Let's just talk about humanitarian assistance, writ large. And you heard Kareen. We are getting food, water, medicine into Gaza. And not enough.

There's been, I think, what, three convoys, a little less than 60 trucks. That's a good start. But it is just a start. We want to see it keep going.

And I think, over coming days, you're going to continue to see convoys of trucks getting in.

But it's also -- you know, fuel is also an issue. We know you need fuel to run the power generators in hospitals. You need fuel to run the pumps in the desalination facilities so people can drink fresh, healthy water. So fuel is another thing that we're working on.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Whether or not there is a ground invasion, do you view humanitarian aid getting there first as important?

KIRBY: Whether or not there's a ground invasion, we believe that humanitarian assistance flowing to the people of Gaza is critically important. And it needs to go as soon as possible and as much as possible.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Where does the president stand on this? Because there was some confusion over the weekend about whether or not he had said that, yes, he does want Israel to wait until humanitarian assistance can get to the Palestinians before any invasion?

KIRBY: We have been -- we have been crystal clear with our parties in the region, including Israel, that we want to see humanitarian assistance flow. There's been no change on our posture at all.

But as I said, I think, to Steve's question, we're not dictating military terms to the Israeli Defense Forces. They have a right and responsibility to go after these terrorists. And they certainly are going to do it in the way that they choose -- that they believe is appropriate to the threat.

We're definitely going to support them in terms of providing the capabilities for them to continue to prosecute Hamas terrorists.

In fact, security assistance has continued to flow over the course of the weekend, and it will. But we're not dictating terms here.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you.

(INAUDIBLE) -- international leaders are calling for humanitarian ceasefire. Will we see the United States calling for a humanitarian pause?

[13:35:06]

KIRBY: What we want right now is to make sure Israel has the tools it needs to defend itself and to go after Hamas, and that humanitarian assistance keeps flowing.

Now, it's started. It's a good thing. We want to keep it going and sustainable. That's what we're focused on.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You mentioned when giving a statement yesterday where President Biden asked Israel -- asked Israel -- (INAUDIBLE) -- under international law. Are they listening to your advice?

KIRBY: We're not going to parse out each and every event that happens on the battlefield, especially since we're not there.

I can just tell you that there hasn't been a conversation that we've had with Israeli counterparts -- and we've had a lot of others where we're talking about not just what they want to do, but how they want to do it.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: John, two Fridays ago, I reported that the U.S. was urging Israel to delay ground invasion, the day after officials here issued statements, other outlets, denying that was the case in the days.

Other outlets have reported the same information I had. But today, you're not confirming any of those reports.

My question is, are you at all concerned that if the U.S. got to the public that what we're asking or suggesting to Israel that they do here that's going to complicate in this aid package through Congress.

And they're asking more than $145 billion, which a portion of this goes towards Israel?

Are you concerned that not being clear with folks about what the U.S. has advised Israel to do will hamper support in Congress for this aid?

KIRBY: We've been very clear and consistent about our support for Israel and their ability to defend themselves.

Jackie, we've been very clear and consistent about the fact that we're going to keep providing security assistance so they can do that.

We've been consistent about the humanitarian need to flow. And clear and consistent about our desire to get people out of Gaza, as well as get our hostages home.

I think we've been clear and consistent throughout. And that includes members of Congress.

Yes, we're going to need congressional support to support Israel. We've got appropriations available to us for a while longer. How long is that "while" is going to depend on the expenditure rate and the kind of operations that they're conducting.

So we desperately need Congress to act on this supplemental quickly.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) -- asking the questions of the Israelis about their strategy there, are you liking the answers they're giving you?

KIRBY: I'm not going to talk about the details of the conversations we're having. Again, these have been clear and consistent conversations.

Again, making sure they have what they need. And that they are thinking through -- again, we are asking them what their answers are to the kinds of questions that any military ought to be asking itself as it conducts operations.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: On the aid question, how are you going to convince people that this is not going to get into Hamas' hands.

KIRBY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When, for instance, you know, we saw something like Covid relief money in the U.S. And we're now talking about securing and an understanding with Hamas.

KIRBY: Sure.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And about how this humanitarian aid should be used and how can we convince people that is going to be a worthwhile, necessary and secure endeavor?

KIRBY: We certainly share concerns about any diversion of humanitarian assistance for Hamas, purposely. For example, fuel is a good example. We know they need fuel to be able to electrify and power up their tunnels, for instance, keep the lights on. We understand that. We're not blind to potential concerns here over

diversion. Which is why Master Satterfield is on the ground. His whole purpose is to make sure that humanitarian assistance can get to the Palestinian people.

We've seen no indication as of today that any of the trucks that we talked about, any of the trucks have been diverted to Hamas or been absconded to Hamas.

In fact, every indication that we have is it has, in fact, gone to the Palestinian people who are -- who are in desperate need for it.

I would remind, folks, that we have trusted partners on the ground, humanitarian organizations.

And of course, the U.N. Relief Agency is on the ground. And they very much are taking a personal stake, a professional, personal stake in making sure that that aid is getting where it's needed.

And we're going to watch -- obviously, we're going to watch this closely. We don't want to see Hamas benefit any more than anybody else.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Following on that, how does the U.S. go about knowing if it's getting to who it's supposed to and not -- Hamas is not taking a bit off the top?

And secondly, can you confirm that the president has sent Lieutenant General James Quinn and some other folks to advise the Israelis?

[13:40:08]

KIRBY: So, on your first question -- (INAUDIBLE). But on your first question, as I said, we're working with trusted partners on the ground, including the U.N.

And that's the way we -- we do it in so many countries around the world, where we don't have a footprint, or any regions of the world where we don't have a footprint.

We're not on the ground to personally inspect these things. But we do have trusted partners on the ground, including the U.N. And some of these aid organizations who will report what they're seeing and where they're taking this material and who's getting it. So, we'll stay in close touch with them.

And we all share the same desire that Hamas not be able to divert any of this stuff for their own purposes. We all share that.

And it's not just the United States. You say, how is the United States going to monitor. The whole international community has a stake here, making sure that the people of Gaza get the food, water, medicine and other vital needs met.

On your second question, what I can tell you is that there are a few relevant military officers with experience, the kind of experience that we believe is appropriate to the sorts of operations that Israel is conducting and may conduct in the future.

And to go over there to share perspectives from their own experiences and to ask the hard questions, the same hard questions that we've been asking of our Israeli counterparts since the beginning.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you, Admiral.

Israel has repeat saying the top priority is destroying Hamas. So what is America's top priority? And are the two countries on the same page here?

KIRBY: America's top priority? I think President Biden made that clear while we were over there, to make sure Israel has the tools and the capacity and the capabilities to go against Hamas terrorists.

And to make sure humanitarian assistance rolls in. And to make sure we can get innocent civilians who want to leave Gaza out, including American citizens.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)

Can you just outline how this would complicate getting the remaining hostages out and how it impact American strategy?

KIRBY: Again, I don't think it's wise for me to get up here and do a bunch of speculating and hypothesizing about operations that haven't happened yet. We'll let the Israelis speak for themselves and for what operations they're going to conduct.

All I can tell you is we're going to make sure they have what they need to do it and that humanitarian assistance keeps flowing.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) -- you outlined three top priorities for America. And Israel has said the top priority is destroying Hamas. So how can you achieve all the priorities for America at the same time Israel has separate top priorities?

KIRBY: We agree that the top priority has got to be going after Hamas. There's no daylight here.

We also think it's important for humanitarian assistance to flow and for our hostages to get home with their families. And we're working all three of those things.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Way in the back.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you been tracking new reporting coming out that Hamas and the Red Cross are working together to exchange another 50 Israeli and dual citizenship hostages? Is there anything you can say about that?

KIRBY: No, I can't.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And the another question on Iran. Some officials have expressed concern over escalation, particularly with Iran. And the Iranian foreign minister warned, quote, "Anything will be possible at any moment and the region will get out of control."

So have you seen any indication that Iran is preparing to further expand this conflict more so than what we've already seen?

KIRBY: I touched on that a little bit in my opening state. We know they supported these groups. We know they supported Hamas and Hezbollah. We know they're monitoring these events very, very closely and, in some cases, urging on some of these groups.

And that's why I made it clear, the president does not want to see this conflict rising. We have added additional military capability into the region to deter any such action.

And we will act appropriately to protect and defend our national security interests in the region. We saw that just last week, when the guided missiles were shot down, missiles and drones that were potentially on their way into Israel.

We take those responsibilities seriously. And anybody else in the region ought to be paying attention to that.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you, John.

Do you have an update on whether Iran was directly involved in the -- (INAUDIBLE)? An Israeli official says that they have evidence but they have not presented any yet.

KIRBY: I would say we're in the same place as we were. We know there's complicity by Iran. As I just said, they've been supporting Hamas for years. But -- decades, a couple of decades. And Hamas wouldn't be able to function or exist without Iran.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: John Kirby there at the White House. Opening his remarks at the briefing there with a message to what he described as hostile actors seeking to escalate or widen this conflict. He said, don't do it.

[13:45:00]

And amid reports that the U.S. is asking Israel to delay its ground incursion, its ground invasion into Gaza, he said that the IDF, the Israeli forces, are capable of making this decision themselves.

Obviously, sensitive, as is Israel, and the U.S. here, sensitive to the appearance that the U.S. is pushing Israel around.

Especially after we heard President Biden, when he was asked about whether they should delay the ground invasion until more hostages can get out, he said yes on Friday.

And then also blaming Iran for the increase in attacks that we have seen on U.S. targets., U.S. personnel included in Iraq and Syria. Saying that they're trying to have some air of deniability, but the U.S. isn't going to allow them to do that. He said humanitarian aid into Gaza needs to be flowing in soon, he

said, and as soon as possible. But then also the caveat saying the Egyptians have legitimate security concerns.

And he also said that there are still 10 unaccounted for Americans in this Israel-Gaza conflict. That, at this point in time, American officials do not know where they are. Ten Americans unaccounted for.

We'll continue to monitor this. If there is any more news made, we'll bring that to you.

Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:51:00]

KEILAR: New reports today about Donald Trump's handling of potentially sensitive national security information while he was president.

According to "The New York Times" and "60 Minutes, Australia," Trump allegedly shared information about his calls with the leaders of Ukraine and Iraq with Australian billionaire, Anthony Pratt, who is a member at Mar-a-Lago.

Pratt is also a key prosecution witness in Trump's classified documents case and gave an interview to Special Counsel Jack Smith.

CNN's affiliate in Australia, 9 News, obtained what they say are secret recordings of Pratt talking about Donald Trump.

Here's what he said about a conversation that Trump had with Iraq's president.

(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)

ANTHONY PRATT, AUSTRALIAN BILLIONAIRE: I hadn't even heard it, it hadn't even been on the news yet. And he said, "I just bombed Iraq today. And the president of Iraq called me up and said, 'You just leveled my city.' And I said to him, 'OK, what are you going to do about it?'"

(END AUDIO FEED)

KEILAR: Bradley Moss is with us now. He's a national security attorney.

All right. Bradley, what is your reaction to hearing this? I mean, how much of this is hyperbole, how much of this could Trump be in legal jeopardy because of it?

BRADLEY MOSS, NATIONAL SECURITY ATTORNEY: Sure, Brianna. Most of it, he's not actually in legal jeopardy in terms of what he did while president. He had pretty much unfettered legal discretion to share classified information with anyone he wanted while he was president. But what has come out of this reporting that CNN and other outlets is

what told to this gentleman from Down Under after he left the presidency. Discussing information he had learned about our U.S. nuclear submarines. That could put him in some trouble.

I don't expect a superseding indictment or anything along the lines. It's too vague, it's too many, you know, areas of wiggle room for him and could eventually get out of it.

But I do expect it to be part of the factual representation that Jack Smith will show how Donald Trump continues to be reckless with respect to classified information after leaving office. And that will speak to the larger picture.

KEILAR: He also recalled Trump sharing information about his infamous call with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenskyy where, of course, Trump was heard pressuring Zelenskyy to launch unfounded corruption probes into Joe Biden.

Let's listen to what was said there.

(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)

PRATT: Trump said, "You know, that Ukraine phone call, that was nothing compared to what I usually do." And he said, "That Ukraine phone call, that's nothing compared to what we usually talk about."

(END AUDIO FEED)

KEILAR: What is your reaction to that, particularly, this idea of, you know, by then, Trump obviously knew there was a problem. That that was not a perfect phone call, and clearly there was no learning curve on that.

MOSS: Yes, that's just vindication for the original whistleblower who came forward to report the concerns about this to the intelligence committees and the Congress and the OIG.

It's a vindication of those who sought to hold President Trump -- former President Trump accountable for that first impeachment process, including former Senator Romney, who voted to convict in the Senate.

It shows just how much Trump knew what he was doing was not permissible, how much he abused the political process for his own political, personal political gain in violation of what other would have been U.S. criminal provisions.

KEILAR: As I mentioned, Pratt is a key prosecution witness in Trump's classified documents case. You mentioned, obviously, the stuff that is really putting Trump in jeopardy has to do with after his presidency.

When you look at this case right now, just the documents case, the federal case, how much hot water is Trump in at this point?

MOSS: If the Mar-a-Lago case down in Florida gets to trial, it is almost certain Donald Trump will get convicted. I don't care where that jury's from, I don't care if it's Fort Pierce,

Florida, I don't care how conservative, he'll be most likely convicted.

The key for him is these pre-trial motions and the delays that he's trying to push on the judge out there, trying to delay this thing, make sure it doesn't get to trial before the election. Because if he wins reelection, he can get the case thrown out.

[13:55:01]

But if this makes it to trial before the election, my money is very much on Jack Smith getting a conviction.

KEILAR: All right, Bradley Moss, really appreciate your insights. Thank you.

MOSS: Absolutely.

KEILAR: Still ahead, the White House says that Iran is actively facilitating attacks against military bases that house U.S. personnel in Iraq and Syria. We'll have much more on this during our special live coverage.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Hello. I'm Brianna Keilar in Washington with Anderson Cooper in Tel Aviv.

[13:59:56]

And this just in. Israel's defense minister says it's preparing for a, quote, "multilateral operation on Hamas from the sea, ground and air."

And this comes as Israel ramped up its attack on Gaza overnight, launching a barrage of strikes.