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No Evidence Of Anti-Semitic Motive In Synagogue Leader's Samantha Moll's Murder; Speaker Of The House Vote Delayed Again; Record 20 Days Without Speaker; Israel Prepares For Multilateral Operation On Hamas; Gaza Death Toll Rises; U.S. Urges Israel To Delay Ground Invasion For Hostage Rescue And Aid; Rising Tensions With Iran As U.S. Military Assets Move To The Middle East. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 23, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And this comes as Israel ramped up its attacks on Gaza overnight, launching a barrage of airstrikes. You're looking now at some of the aftermath here, the Israeli military saying it hit hundreds of terror targets. According to the Palestinian Health Ministry, 436 people were killed in the strikes overnight, including nearly 200 children. Anderson.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: This all comes as we are learning the U.S. is pushing Israel to delay its ground invasion of Gaza in hopes of getting hostages out and much-needed humanitarian aid into the south, although an Israeli official has denied this. Today, a third group of trucks carrying supplies entered a key border crossing linking Egypt and Gaza, but relief groups are warning much more is needed as the crisis there deepens for the many Palestinians who are running out of food and water. CNN's chief national security correspondent, Alex Marquardt, live for us in Washington. Right now, also CNN's correspondent, Jeremy Diamond, is in Ashkelon, Israel, right along the border. Jeremy, let's start with you. What are you hearing, seeing about possible incursion on the ground in Gaza?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, it really is about the combination between what we are seeing on the ground, what we are hearing from officials, and also, frankly, hearing this evening. As we listen to the Gaza Strip behind us, we have been hearing the steady thud of Israeli artillery and airstrikes all throughout the evening. But last night was certainly one of the most significant strikes that the Israeli military carried out on the Gaza Strip, hitting more than 320 targets, targeting Hamas tunnels, operational command centers, as well as missile and mortar launch points.

But this evening, the Israeli Defense Minister, Gallant, is making very clear that this operation, even though it has not begun yet, despite some anticipation in a sense that it is certainly an imminent operation, making clear that it will begin. And he is describing it as a multilateral operation that he says will be carried out from the air, ground, and sea. As he was visiting the Ashdod Navy Base, Galant said, told the soldiers there to keep preparing, and he said that the operation, quote, will come soon. As we drove around the Gaza Strip today, Anderson, it's very clear that the troops that are here and the tanks, the armored personnel carriers, of which we saw hundreds, frankly, in just an area that was about a square mile, these troops are all very clearly ready to move in. We saw them milling about, but they have everything that they need to move forward. The question now is exactly when that command will come through.

COOPER: And Alex, the White House says that Iran is, in their words, actively facilitating attacks against military bases, which house U.S. personnel in Iraq as well as Syria. What are you hearing?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Anderson, obviously there's widespread concern that Iran could direct its proxies to significantly escalate their attacks against not just Israel, but American assets that would include Hezbollah, for example, to the north of Israel in Lebanon. But we also have seen a fairly serious uptick in the number of these types of attacks. Just today, Anderson, there was a drone attack against a U.S. base in Syria. There were two drones that were sent to that base. They were taken down.

On Friday, we saw a missile attack directed at a U.S. diplomatic facility in Baghdad. A U.S. destroyer in the Red Sea had to take down missiles and drones that were fired by Iran-backed Houthi rebels off the coast of Yemen last week. So, there is major concern and evidence that these attacks are growing. And there -- is the potential, according to the White House's John Kirby, of serious escalation. Here's a little bit more of what he had to say just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, NATL. SECURITY COUNCIL COODINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: Now, we know these groups are supported by the IRGC and the regime. We know Iran continues to support Hamas and Hezbollah. And we know that Iran is closely monitoring these events and, in some cases, actively facilitating these attacks and spurring on others who may want to exploit the conflict for their own good or for that of Iran. We know Iran's goal is to maintain some level of deniability here, but we're not going to allow them to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Anderson, to that point about deniability, there still hasn't been any direct link established between Iran and the attack that we saw by Hamas on October 7th, though there's no question that, as many officials have said, Hamas could not have carried out that attack without the years and years and millions of dollars of Iran's backing. Anderson.

COOPER: And, Alex, what is the Pentagon said about possibly sending more assets to this region?

MARQUARDT: Yeah, they're not just issuing warnings. They're actually moving military assets. We had already seen those two carrier strike groups move into the Eastern Mediterranean, the Ford and the Eisenhower. We're told by the Pentagon over the weekend that a number of troops are being put on a higher state of readiness in case they need to be sent. And then, perhaps most dramatically, Anderson, because of all the potential for attacks against U.S. troops around the region, Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin says that air defense systems, including Patriot missile batteries are going to also be moving into the Middle East. So they are certainly preparing for the worst, Anderson.

[14:05:19]

COOPER: All right, Alex Marquardt, Jeremy Dimond, thank you. Joining me now to talk more about what we may see on the ground in Gaza once Israeli forces move in is retired Army Colonel Peter Mansoor. He served as Executive Officer to General David Perez during the Iraq War. He's now a professor of military history at Ohio State University. Colonel, thank you so much for being with us. We have seen, there have been people talking about an imminent ground operation for more than two weeks now. Sources say the Biden administration is seeking a hold off of that. For Israel's military, what is the calculus? What are they waiting for if it's not a political decision?

COL. PETER MANSOOR, U.S. ARMY (RET): Well, think back to the Gulf War of 1991 when the United States had several weeks of air preparation of the battlefield to whittle down the Republican Guard before it went in with ground troops. And once it did, it was a 100-hour war. What the Israelis are doing now are shaping the battlefield. They're trying to reduce Hamas's military capabilities, strike their rocket facilities, strike their tunnels and shape the battlefield so that when the ground troops do go in, they don't take as many casualties and the ground is prepared for their invasion. I don't think this is gonna last very long because Israel is under international pressure to reduce the deaths of non-combatants. So, I think the ground invasion will begin in a matter of days, but not until the Israelis are convinced that their air power has done the job and prepared the way for the ground troops.

COOPER: When you say you don't think this is gonna last very long, do you mean this pause of going in or that the actual operation on the ground? Because obviously it's hard to tell how long it may, do you think it was gonna be short or are you talking weeks and months for a ground operation?

MANSOOR: Yeah, I was referring to the airstrikes. So, there's gonna be not many more days, I think, of these airstrikes before we see a ground invasion. Now, the ground invasion itself is gonna be lengthy. If they're gonna try to destroy Hamas, that's a tall order. They're gonna have to go through all of Gaza, destroy the tunnels, get rid of their military capabilities building by building and that's gonna take weeks, if not months.

COOPER: Let's talk about that. Given experiences the U.S. has had in Fallujah, in Mosul, the operations to finally get rid of ISIS in Mosul, how difficult is this gonna be and what are the rules of engagement? I've talked to some Israeli officers about this because there's a lot of people who have gone south, as Israel urged, but there's an awful lot of people who have stayed in Gaza City. What happens to them?

MANSOOR: This is gonna be more difficult than either Fallujah or Mosul. In those instances, the United States had pretty much control of the skies and they could bomb to their heart's content because the civilians had fled Fallujah and in Mosul, the ISIS was confined to the inner city and so we could bomb the buildings and destroy them.

Here in Gaza, as you noted, the civilians have not all fled and the Israelis will be expected to abide by the laws of land warfare, which admittedly allow for civilian casualties, but the number of civilian casualties have to be commensurate with the military advantage gained by their destruction. And this is gonna be a battle in the court of world opinion as Israel goes in with these ground forces and Israeli, or I'm sorry, Palestinian civilians start taking the brunt of the military operations.

COOPER: That's interesting that that's sort of the calculation, if that's the awful right word to use, which is shooting, killing a certain civilian if -- if they are in the line of fire of somebody else who has a military value in killing them. I mean, who makes, these are calculations being made by soldiers in the field in the heat of battle, correct?

MANSOOR: No, they have to be made really at the very top to begin with. I'm reminded of the Allied airstrikes against French cities to reduce the rail network prior to the battle for Normandy killed over 30,000 French civilians. And they asked de Gaulle, you know, can we do this? And he said, if that's what it takes to liberate France, the French people will pay the price. And this is sort of the calculation that's being made now at the highest levels of the Israeli government. How many people do we have to kill in our quest to destroy Hamas? And, you know, it's a bloody calculation, but that's war.

[14:10:29]

COOPER: It is remarkable to think, I mean, you're a historian of military history and which is why it's so great to talk to you. But those sorts of calculations could be made, or those sorts of decisions could be made by de Gaulle in the 40s. There wasn't social media. There wasn't people with cameras on the ground documenting what that actually looked like. It would be very interesting to see how history might be different if there had been.

MANSOOR: And you -- exactly. So, every decision is going to be scrutinized more today, which is why you need to make sure that your cause is just and that your goal is achievable, which in this case, I'm not sure it is. It's going to be very difficult to weed out the Hamas militants from the civilian population. It's going to be a very messy battlefield. And I think Israel needs to think hard about the long-term political settlement here and not just try to exact revenge for the horrific terror attacks that they suffered a couple weeks ago.

COOPER: Well, just finally, I talked to, I guess, your old boss, David Petraeus, a couple of days ago, and that's one of the things he was really stressing, which is what is the plan for victory? I mean, it's one thing, you know, you understand the military assault, whether you agree with it or not. But what do you do if you actually succeed in eliminating Hamas or whatever that means and not have a situation like we saw in Iraq where you had a de-bathification campaign and then you had all these former members of the Ba'ath Party who had military training who then took part in the insurgency?

MANSOOR: Well, exactly. I'm reminded of a -- George W. Bush cabinet meeting before the invasion of Afghanistan. And he was briefed on the war plan. And then after the meeting was concluded, he said, so who's going to govern Afghanistan when we win? And he got a lot of blank stares across from him from the table. And this is the kind of question that the Israeli government needs to be dealing with now. How is Gaza governed going forward, even if you succeed? Because that question cannot wait for the day of victory.

COOPER: Colonel Peter Mansoor, good to talk to you. Thank you.

MANSOOR: Thank you.

COOPER: Back in the U.S., chaos continues on Capitol Hill. The House remains frozen with no speaker, paralyzing the president's emergency aid requests for Israel as well as Ukraine. We'll have a live report from the Hill next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:29]

KEILAR: Just hours from now, House Republicans will try to pick a new speaker yet again. These 9 GOP lawmakers are in the running after 20 days with no speaker of the House and failed bids from GOP Congressman Steve Scalise and Jim Jordan. We are covering the chaos from all angles. We have CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill with what to expect today. And we have CNN senior data reporter Harry Enten here with details on the political fallout. First to Manu, tell us what you're hearing from lawmakers.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDEN: Well, we are expecting a contested race for the speakership. There are 9 candidates who are running for this, trying to get a majority of the conference vote tomorrow to be nominated as speaker. The challenge will be which one of them gets nominated, can get the 217 votes they need on the House floor to be elected. Something that has not happened yet in the almost three weeks since Kevin McCarthy's ouster.

I am here with one of those candidates, Kevin Hern of Oklahoma, who's the chairman of the Republican Study Committee. Congressman, thank you for taking the time to speak with me. You've been on the phone all weekend long trying to get the votes from your colleagues. What specifically is the pitch you're making and how do you distinguish yourself from some of the members here in this race?

REP. KEVIN HERN, RUNNING FOR HOUSE SPEAKER (R): Well, certainly everybody is going to tell all the members that they believe they're the candidate can reunite the party and bring us together. The question will be is how each of us present our experiences to make that happen. I chair the Republican Study Committee and it's made up of the House Freedom Caucus, the Problem Solvers, Main Street and Republican Governance. And what that is, that's all the caucuses of the Republican Party. And so, we already work on a weekly basis with 80 percent of the entire conference, which makes it a natural that we are already reuniting, working on policy that matters to everybody in the entire conference.

RAJU: But this is a badly divided Republican conference. We've been hearing this for some time and there's so much anger and ill will towards the people who started this, including those 8 Republicans who voted to oust Kevin McCarthy. Should anything happen to those 8 members?

HERN: Well, again, I'm not going to look backwards. I'm a look forward. So we spent all of our time working. What happened in the past, we're never going to be able to move forward. American people right now know that we have a real problem in the world in Israel. What's going on with there is an atrocity. It's sad. It's really scary, quite frankly, what could happen to the rest of the world if we don't get ahead of this. We need to get back in power, get the resolution passed for Israel, condemn Hamas as terrorists, what they're doing right now. Shore up our defense so the rest of the world knows that we're serious about protecting the sovereignty of our allies and our friends and our own nation.

And that's what we're going to do. And when you look at what's broken right now, it's the trust in each other. And we have restored that. And the way you do that, you listen and you listen and you listen and you put policy together to reunite the party.

RAJU: You mentioned Israel. But one of the big things you have to deal with is deciding how to move on Israel aid and Ukraine aid. If you're a speaker of the House. Will you listen to what the president is calling for with Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell calling for to tie Israel aid to Ukraine aid and pass it together?

HERN: We certainly know in the House and I would argue in the entire Congress, Ukraine aid is controversial at times and really would just want to know where the money is going to be spent and what the strategy is, the mission is with the money. We do not need to bog down Israel aid in that debate right now. There's still nine billion dollars in aid for Ukraine sitting out there. We need to get Israel passed now. The Israel funding passed right now. As soon as we get the speaker back in the House, hopefully tomorrow night, we get that done and that will be send the message.

We can have the debate on Ukraine. We can invite the president, State Department and others to come and talk to us about the mission. And I think that will solve -- and cool a lot of the negative aspects of the Ukraine funding so we can get moved down the road.

[14:20:28]

RAJU: You also voted against a short-term spending bill to keep the government open just a few weeks ago. Would you be open to passing a short-term spending bill to avoid a shutdown in mid-November?

HERN: If we do our work, which is the day before I supported the CR that cut spending and also funded the southern border. I thought we gave away too much to the Senate, to Chuck Schumer and the Senate. We just did that in a kind of carte blanche. I think what we've got to do is we've got to work. We've got to take back days that have been off. We've got to schedule enough days here to get our work done. Put the DOD bill on the floor, get it passed, as I said, the other 3 that we passed. Get those done, get them passed. Get them signed into law. Work our tails off to get to the end of the November session.

RAJU: So not a -- But not a short-term bill? Because that's where you're going to end up having to meet here, right?

HERN: But we'll have about 25% of the funding left to do it. If we do it, take Speaker McCarthy's plan, actually, and put that in place, we will be where we need it at November 17th to have 25% of the funding that we will CR to get to where we need to be.

RAJU: So, as from what I understand, former President Trump has spoken to some of the candidates who are running. Have you spoken to him since you announced?

HERN: I have.

RAJU: What was that conversation like?

HERN: Well, he just wanted to know what was going on in the race. Obviously, nine people get in the race. He knew some of us at different degrees and levels. I've worked with the President for years, since I've been in Congress, because he's been to Oklahoma. And Oklahoma is a state that voted all 77 counties for him twice. And so, obviously, we're very rich. We're the only state that did that, by the way. And so, he's very familiar with Oklahoma and the members of the delegation there.

RAJU: Did you ask for his support?

HERN: I did not. I left the President. I think he's going to set this one out.

RAJU: You don't think he's going to endorse anybody?

HERN: I don't, because all of us are friends of his. He supported Jim because Jim was a longtime friend, a fighter for him early on, what he's been doing in the judiciary. But if you notice that support of Jim, he said, I also like Steve Scalise and I like Kevin Hern. So, I think when you look at this now, he's going to let this play out. It's going to happen pretty quickly tomorrow. So, we'll see where it goes.

RAJU: And you voted against certifying the 2020 election. Do you regret that vote?

HERN: I don't. When you look at what I did, I said that Arizona and Pennsylvania should not have changed their voting laws without their state legislators being involved. If you look at since then, Pennsylvania has gone and changed a lot of those problems.

RAJU: But did you talk to the President about, -- the former President about that when you guys talked yesterday?

HERN: I did not. He's looking forward as well. He knows he's in a great spot for this upcoming election and he wants to talk about that.

RAJU: Okay. One last thing. If you get the nomination, will you try to get the 217 votes you need before forcing a vote on the floor? Or will you go to the floor like what Jim Jordan did?

HERN: I think the consensus is, and I've talked to some of the other people that are running and others that are actually going to be the voting members, and we'd like to see a roll call vote in the basement so that we know this. And because the American people don't want to see another thing that happened like last week with Jim Jordan.

RAJU: Yeah. Well, thank you for taking the time, Congressman Hern. All right, Brianna, back to you. Congressman Hern, one of the 9 members who are running, will he get the Republican nomination? A majority of the conference will vote behind closed doors on Tuesday. Floor vote. We'll see when that happens. And if whether or not Mr. Hern or anybody else can get the 217 votes they need. Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, we will be watching. Manu Raju, live on the Hill. Thank you so much. And thank you to the Congressman as well. All right. Let's turn to Harry Enten because he's going to break this down for us. We really are at an extraordinary moment. Tell us just how extraordinary it is.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SERIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes. So, we're mid-session right now. Right. And we've had 20 days since we've had a speaker. The old record mid-session was 2 back in 1820. So, we are now 10 times the old record. This is pathetic. The fact that we cannot get a speaker. It's historically pathetic and it's historically pathetic times 10.

KEILAR: We basically heard something. The congressman saying, he doesn't want to go to the floor. So, I think there's even this sort of admission in a way that what we see playing out on the floor is a little bit pathetic here. This is part of a larger trend of just Congress not getting work done.

ENTEN: That's exactly right. I mean, how many laws have been passed by this Congress and signed into law? We're talking less than 20. Less than 20. And if we go back over the last 50 years and we look at Congresses where you had, you know, divided government, maybe the president was one party. Congress was at least partially run by another. The average to this point is nearly 100. So, we're looking at about one fifth the productivity of what the average Congress would be even in divided government. So, it's not necessarily too surprising that we haven't gotten a speaker because this has been historically unproductive Congress.

KEILAR: How are Americans looking at this?

ENTEN: Yeah, I mean, how are Americans looking at this? You know, there was a great question asked by Quinnipiac University

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Harry, I'm so sorry. We're going to Detroit where there is an update on the murder of this synagogue leader. Let's listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JAMES WHITE, DETROIT POLICE: -- At her residence. We believe that there are no other groups or anyone else at risk in regards to this particular incident. We believe that this incident was not motivated by anti-Semitism and that this suspect acted alone. Again, that is what we know at this time. There are several factors that has led us to this conclusion. We are not in a position to discuss all of them at this point. Obviously, there are parts of the investigation that we cannot get into again. It is germane to the closing of this case. There are certain factors that are only shared by the suspect and our investigators. There are certain key points that we will not be able to discuss. At this time, I will bring up Deputy Chief Sloan to get into some of the areas that we can discuss with you. Deputy Chief Sloan.

[14:25:38]

DEPUTY CHIEF KARI SLOAN: Yes, sir. Thank you, Chief. Good afternoon, everybody. Sadly, Ms. Samantha Woll was found deceased in front of the 1300 block of Joliet Street on Saturday around 6.30 a.m. She was suffering from apparent stab wounds to her body. We are currently working with our partners, as the Chief mentioned, from the FBI and Michigan State Police to establish exactly what occurred in the hours and days prior to Ms. Woll's death.

At this point in the investigation, we are examining every piece of evidence we have uncovered to determine what exactly led to this incident, as well as following up on the extensive amounts of information that we have gained during our investigation. We have and are in the process of conducting countless interviews to learn everything about Ms. Woll's life, including any possible motive or opportunity to harm her.

What we do know, again, from what the Chief mentioned, is that Ms. Woll did attend an event on Friday evening, which we know was a wedding. She did return home around 12.30 a.m. on Saturday morning, and we did discover no signs of forced entry to her residence. At some point between returning home from this event and in the early morning hours when she was discovered, Ms. Woll was unfortunately fatally assaulted.

By all accounts, Ms. Wall was very well liked in the community, so it is clearly very shocking to her family and to her friends that this incident has occurred. I'd like to extend our gratitude to the men and women of the Homicide Section, our partner agencies, for the endless hours that they have dedicated to this investigation. We are committed to -- our continued work with our partners to identify the person responsible in this incident. Again, the investigation is ongoing, and we continue to ask for the community's assistance in solving this crime, either through 1-800-SPEAK-UP or Rewards TV. Thank you.

CHEYVORYEA GIBSON, SPECIAL AGENT FOR THE DETROIT FBI OFFICER: FBI. Sir. Good afternoon. My name is Cheyvoryea Gibson. That's spelled C-H- E-Y. V as in Victor, O-R-Y-E-A. Last name Gibson with a B. I'm the special agent in charge here in Detroit for the FBI, which covers the entire state of Michigan. I want to thank all of you for being here today, and thank you, Chief, for this opportunity. I want to express my sincerest condolences to Mrs. Woll's family, her friends, and the community during this tragic loss.

As stated by Chief White, we are providing technical, forensic, and investigative support during this DPD investigation. And I will say, if you have any questions with regard to the investigation or any facts thereof, I'm going to defer to Chief White at this time. And again, thank you guys for being here, and thank you, Chief White.

WHITE: Again, I just want to assure the community that everything possible is being done to bring this case to a close. I ask for patience. There's a lot of evidence and information that has to be analyzed. Again, we're very thankful to our partnerships with both the FBI and the Michigan State Police. Access to crime lab activity and things such as that helps move this case along quite quickly. But we want to make sure that we don't rush and that we do everything to make sure that evidence is analyzed, search warrants are got up, and we bring this matter to a close with the appropriate person being held accountable for these horrendous actions. With that, I'll take any questions.

RYAN MARSHALL, WWJ News Radio 950: Hi, Chief. Ryan Marshall, representing WWJ News Radio 950 here locally, CBS News New York nationally. Even though you did say that there isn't any anti-Semitic motive here, how -- how, -- I would say, how concerned are you that having this happen on Saturday and now you guys coming on Monday that maybe some of these people are going to be arrested?