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Freed Hostage Speaks Out; Or Sella is Interviewed about his Freed Cousins; Hamas Frees Two More Hostages; House Voting for Speaker Nominee; Rep. Mark Alford (R-MO) is Interviewed about the Speaker Race. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired October 24, 2023 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:34]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Baldwin, with John Berman here in New York. Sara Sidner is in Jerusalem.

And as we speak, House Republicans are headed back behind closed doors. Again, trying to fix their mess and come together to elect a House speaker after three weeks. We are entering day 21 to be exact without a speaker of the House.

Now, there are eight Republicans left, if you will, or still vying for the job, but there really is no clear path at this moment for any of them to get to what they need. It is -- what is clear is that Republican lawmakers, at least some of them, are exhausted by the chaos and getting an earful from their constituents back home.

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REP. DON BACON (R-NE): I think people are so discouraged by what's happened the last three weeks that they want to come together.

REP. MARCUS MOLINARO (R-NY): We have to act like mature adults and come to a conclusion. And I think that with can.

REP. DUSTY JOHNSON (R-SD): At least half of them could get there. The other half might struggle a little bit. But we're going to have to figure out how to get our act together. I mean big boys and big girls have got to quit making excuses and we've just got to go get it done.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We also have new developments out of Israel. We learned that a top U.S. Marine general is now on the ground advising the IDF. You can see Lieutenant General James Glynn right there.

This as new reports just emerged that Israel might be willing to delay a ground invasion. They've had troops waiting to cross the border at a moment's notice. But they might be willing to delay a ground invasion to allow for more time for hostage negotiations. Israel says that more than 200 individuals at this point could be being held captive. Still, this would be day 18 in captivity.

And we're getting new information from one of the elderly hostages just released, including the extensive tunnel complex she believes she was held in, how many people she was with and her treatment at the hands of her terrorist captors.

Let's get right to Jerusalem. That's where our friend Sara Sidner is standing by for the very latest on all of that.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, John and Kate. Good morning.

The stories of the Israeli hostages that have been released is truly terrifying. But the two ladies were taken from the Nir Oz kibbutz. Seventy-nine-year-old Nurit Cooper and 85-year-old Yocheved Lifshitz were released overnight and are finally back in Israel today. Lifshitz, is talking about her ordeal that you mentioned. She says she was kidnapped on a motorbike, riding on her side. She was all bruised up as she was taken into Gaza from that ride. She is a grandmother and one of the founders of the Nir Oz kibbutz and a long-time peace activist as well.

Here is some of what she said after being a hostage by Hamas for 16 days deep in those tunnels.

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YOCHEVED LIFSHITZ, HOSTAGE RELEASED BY HAMAS (through translator): I went through hell that I could not have known. I was kidnapped on a motorbike on my side while they were driver towards Gaza. As we got there, the people told us that they are people who believe in the Koran and that they will not harm us and that we will get the same conditions they get in the tunnels. We began walking inside the tunnels with the wet ground. There were guards and a paramedic and a doctor who took care of the fact that we would have the same medicine that we need. There, we lied on mattresses. They took care of the sanitary side so we won't get sick. And we had a doctor who came to see us every two to three days.

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SIDNER: It is remarkable to hear that. And as a peace activist, you can hear her trying to find humanity among her captors.

But her heart, by the way, is still in Gaza because her husband is still a hostage, and so is Nurit Cooper's husband. Their ordeal is not over by any stretch of the imagination.

Now, we also should talk about what is happening inside of Gaza. The Israeli military estimates there are 200 hostages that are still there, likely in the labyrinth of tunnels under the Gaza Strip.

But what is happening now to the Palestinian population in Gaza is a catastrophe according to everyone who is on the ground there. Medical care has now completely collapsed. Doctors are saying they're completely overwhelmed and the hospitals can simply not maintain service to all of the people who need it.

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And now this. Save the Children is saying that over 1 million children are trapped in Gaza with no safe place to go. And they have warned of the devastating impacts of lacking medication and electricity to power vital health infrastructure in the enclave. Israel, for its part, has intensified its bombing campaign in the besieged strip as its defense minister, Yoav Gallant, has said Monday that the country's preparing for what he called a multilateral operation on the militant group Hamas that controls Gaza. He says it's going to come from the air, the ground and the sea.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Sara, thank you so much. We'll get back to you very soon.

But on this, joining me right now is Or Sella. His cousins, Judith and Natalie Raanan, they were the first hostages to be released. You'll remember this image. They were freed on Friday after being kidnapped by Hamas from their kibbutz during the October 7th attack.

There are still ten of their family members being held by Hamas today.

Or, thank you very much for coming on.

First and foremost, how are Judith and Natalie doing right now?

OR SELLA, COUSINS RELEASED AFTER BEING KIDNAPPED BY HAMAS: They are physically well. They were relieved about that. They do need their peace and quiet to somehow maintain some kind of normal life and try to reconcile all they've been through. So, they are surrounded by family and trying to get as much normal as they can after this.

BOLDUAN: Yes, whatever normal can look like right now, especially with family still stuck - still being held captive over there.

You've said, Or, that you want to be careful sharing details of what they endured and when they were being held hostage given that you have so many other family members still being held by Hamas. While we completely understand your hesitancy given the circumstances, have they opened up to all of you about their experience?

SELLA: We did speak about what they've been through. But again, it's not my story to tell. And I don't want to say anything that could jeopardize the other hostages. There are over 200 families that want their family members back home. And we need to do everything we can to bring everybody back home. This is the main focus of us right now.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

You know, we just heard and we just played just some of what we've heard this morning from another hostage who was released, Yocheved Lifshitz. And we've played some of what she said at a press conference. She spoke for quite some time. What's your reaction, Or, to what you hear her saying? SELLA: Well, it's hard to -- we have really, like, mixed emotions

because yesterday we were with the family and with Natalie and Judith and put our phones aside for a couple of hours to really just be together. And after these hours that we even allowed ourselves to be even a little bit happy for these horrible moments since this Saturday, when the attack happened, after that we got the notice that another cousin has been murdered and identified.

And, you know, we can't even mourn our dead family. And these little moments of happiness that some are back are filled with guilt. Why - why they -- why did they come first -- go back first -- or released first a not someone else? And even though we try to stay optimistic at all times because it's the only way we can - we can function to do what we can to help return everyone else home.

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We can't sleep. We eat without appetite. We are happy about anyone coming back. But this is not the end. It's just the beginning. And we won't stop until each and every one of the hostages are back.

BOLDUAN: Yes, you're in the middle of a nightmare still, with families still being held hostage. One is - one is three years old is what you said, but that just breaks my heart to hear that there's any guilty feeling that comes up for being the first to be released. That's just heartbreaking to hear. Just the compounding tragedy of what they're going through, even after getting to physical safety.

Or, thank you so much for coming on. And please give a hug to Natalie and Judith from all of us.

SELLA: Thank you for having me and hearing our family's voice.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now, retired General Wesley Clark, CNN military analyst and former NATO supreme allied commander.

General, thank you for being here.

I want to talk about some of the things we learned from this hostage who was just released. She talked about the tunnel complex that she was held in. She mentioned there were other hostage there's. Multiple hostages with her. She also mentioned there was about one terrorist per hostage underground there. How can the Israelis use that information as they now plan this offensive?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I'm not sure it is usable. I mean it's what you would expect. They're going to take good care of the hostages because the hostages are valuable. You're going to put guards on each hostage and, in addition to guarding them, you're supposed to look after their medical condition and so forth.

So, that - that's -- what we don't know is where they were in this tunnel complex. And you've got these (INAUDIBLE) tunnels up there, but we don't know really what's there. I mean -

BERMAN: No, that's a good point. This was from 2021.

CLARK: Yes.

BERMAN: And you can be sure that they've been moved, changed, expanded.

CLARK: Multiple levels, blind alleys, lots of different things going on underground. They're producing weapons. They've got stores in there. You just don't know until you get into that tunnel complex.

So, I think it's a good thing that the hostages are released. I'm not sure what intelligence value it's really going to have. It just confirms what we suspected.

BERMAN: I want to ask about this American Marine general, James Glynn, who we now learned overnight is on the ground advising the IDF. What do you think is the nature of those conversations?

CLARK: Well, I think this is a really important set of conversations because we had some urban operations experience in Mosul in 2014, nine months working with the Iraqi forces to get rid of ISIS. And we learned a lot. And I think the exchange of information at the highest, professional level could be very useful.

What's the right of a military objective to go into in Gaza? We're going to try to secure the desalization (ph) plants, the unities. Is it a mosque? Where are we going and why? And then, what's the next step? And then, how do we support ourselves and secure the lines of communication we've gone into. Lots of military issues here.

BERMAN: Well, let's talk about the possibility of this offensive. First, though, with this other new piece of information, even as, you know, Israeli troops are aligned all around Gaza, infantry, you know, you've got - you've got armored. And as you note, I think as everyone knows, there's also sea power that the Israelis have here, too.

"Axios" is reporting that Israel may be considering a pause on a ground operations to allow more time for these hostage discussions. What does a pause do to all these troops who were, at this point, waiting day by day.

CLARK: Well, you may get more information and so you may be able to refine your objectives for the troops. You may be able to go over the maintenance status of the armored equipment. You may do some more sharp shooting practice for the infantry. You may get some additional night vision goggles or other things. You may be able to preplan some logistics supports and move your logistics forward into better areas. So, you're going to use the time as best you can.

But, you know, there's also a strategic issue here. For 300,000 people mobilized in a country like Israel, there's a big economic impact. So the longer you hold this off, the more the impact on the economy and for Israelis and the politics of it. It's just like, let's get going, let's get going. But, you know, John, in my military experience, that waiting time is

extremely valuable. And it has to be used. There should be no great rush to cross the line of departure before every single detail has been thought about and worked. And as you keep -- get the troops there and they're thinking about these things, they're asking more questions, they're working through the details. You don't want to go into something like this with ready, fire, aim.

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You want the details, the planning to be done. So, you can use this time.

BERMAN: And, meanwhile, the operations - I'm sorry, the operations from the air absolutely continue. And we got word overnight that there are targets - some 300 targets overnight according to the Israelis. But one of them includes sites near Rafah in the south here. That, of course, is the crossing that aid has been coming into from Egypt. And it's below this line, (INAUDIBLE) Gaza, these lands where the Israelis have told people to move south of. What would the nature of the targets be south of this line where they've told civilians to go?

CLARK: Command centers, logistics, factories, underground, entrances to underground areas. We don't know.

And one of the things that's kind of interesting about this is the Israelis really aren't telling us much about this. Now, I ran an air campaign in Kosovo some 20 odd years ago. And one of the things about running an air campaign is, you run out of targets. I mean how do you get -- for each target you have to know why you're striking it, how you're going to approach it, what the right weapon is, the pilot has to be briefed. It's a real process. So, if you're striking 300 targets a day and you're generating those targets, you must have a lot of intelligence built up on it.

So, I think as this -- if this -- there is a pause and if the Israelis continue these air strikes, I hope they will share with the international community some of the thinking about the targets and why they're hitting these targets because, remember, they're not only in a kinetic war, they're in an information war. And when the Palestinians report another 500 people killed overnight, there needs to be an explanation for why those targets were hit. We don't have that yet.

BERMAN: And that information war can be more explosive at times too. And we've seen that already.

General Wesley Clark, thank you so much for being with us this morning.

CLARK: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, the secret ballots. Republican lawmakers meeting right now to try to whittle down the field and finally choose a speaker of the House. One of the Republicans behind those closed doors joins us, coming up next.

And for the first time in five years, Donald Trump will be face-to- face with his former attorney, Michael Cohen, this time inside a Manhattan courtroom.

And new details from passengers on that flight where an off-duty pilot has now been arrested for trying to shut off the planes' engines mid- flight.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The flight attendant came on the loudspeaker and said that we had a situation and we needed to land the plane immediately. We didn't know where we were landing, and we didn't know what was wrong.

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MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Because five of them could stop his effort to become speaker here.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Look, you know, for those who do - if they do that, they're going against the conference rule. And there should be consequences for people because in the conference rules it says you need 50 percent. And you look, those crazy eight work with all the Democrats. I mean no one thought they'd have -- I think it sees that it's such a failure here, it's hard for them to do it again. I don't see how they possibly -

RAJU: What kind of -- what kind of compromise?

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BERMAN: So that was former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy just moments ago as he was heading into this room, where happening now, at this very moment, House Republicans are voting on a new nominee for speaker. This three-week circus that began with McCarthy getting booted enters this new phase. It might even be the most chaotic phase. This time they are choosing from eight declared candidates. Why eight? Well, because Congressman Dan Meuser, he dropped out last night. So, then there were eight.

They will keep voting behind closed doors on these eight candidates until one of these people gets a majority of the conference. So, it's on.

Let's get right to CNN's Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill.

Where are they now, Lauren? LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they are just

heading in, beginning this meeting behind closed doors. And like you noted, John, it could take a significant amount of time to get through the secret balloting process today. That is because every round of voting takes roughly about an hour to complete. They have to hand count the votes. And after each round, the lowest vote getting candidate will be dropped from the race. But because there are eight candidates, that could take a significant amount of time.

Now, the big question is whoever gets the majority of support in that conference meeting today, that does not necessarily guarantee that they are going to be able to get the votes they need on the House floor. That is the issue that has bedeviled Steve Scalise. It's the issue that bedeviled Jim Jordan last week. And you can expect that it is going to be a tough climb for any one of these candidates to actually get the votes they need to become the next speaker.

Now, I did talk to Representative Tom Cole. He's sort of someone who has a lot of respect within the conference. He's also someone who has a good pulse on where Republicans are in this moment. And he told me that he thinks a lot of the bloodletting, a lot of the emotion has really started to dissipate within this Republican conference after three weeks of a search for a new House speaker. He said that he believes that by the end of the week they are going to be able to unite. But again, it's just a really huge, looming question right now because if Tom Emmer, the Republican whip who is seen as the frontrunner in this race right now, if he gets the nomination, I think there are still some questions about whether or not hardliners in the House Freedom Caucus are going to back him.

John.

BERMAN: That is the big question. The first answer we'll get, which one of these remaining eight gets the lowest vote totals. Who earns the red x.

We're also looking at the vote total of the highest earner in this first round. If it is Tom Emmer, how close is Emmer to getting a majority in the conference. We could get answers to these really within the next 45 minutes or so.

Lauren Fox, on Capitol Hill, keep us posted.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Joining us now for more on this, Republican congressman from Missouri, Mark Alford.

Congressman, thanks for jumping on. I know you are also going to have to jump back behind closed doors. So, thanks for this.

REP. MARK ALFORD (R-MO): Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Is this week, in your view, showing more progress than last week or the week before that?

[09:25:03]

ALFORD: Kate, it really is. Look, we've been three weeks now, a ship without a rudder. Three weeks since Kevin McCarthy was fired. We desperately need to move on with the business of America, getting our appropriation bills passed, securing our border, providing aid to Israel.

But, look, last night something happened in the conference behind closed doors that I'm very excited about. Number one, everyone on the panel, the eight remaining finalists, if you will, said that they would support whoever got the majority of the vote coming out of the conference. Now, others have done that before. This time it's a little bit different though because they also said that they are willing to have a roll call vote if they do not get the majority or if - they're going to get the majority of votes. But if there is some - some time before we go to the floor, they will have a roll call vote where they can make sure that they have the 217 votes before we go out there once again.

BOLDUAN: You know, Florida Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz, he said last night he believes the House Republicans might have a speaker come tonight. That seems a little optimistic. But Kevin McCarthy also just told reporters that he - he said, it will - it will get done this week.

Are you sure it will get done this week?

ALFORD: Well, I'm certainly hoping and praying that it gets done this week.

Look, we've ended up with eight great men of integrity who I don't think have ticked anybody off in our conference, who don't really owe anything to anyone. Men who have different backgrounds. Kevin Hern, for example, owned 24 McDonald's restaurants. He is a great leader. I think a servant leader is what we're looking for. We don't just need a speaker of the House, we need a listener of the House. I think that person is Kevin Hern.

BOLDUAN: Haven't ticked anybody off in the conference is a good platform to run on at this point, I think, if you want to be speaker of the House.

But - but talk about the flipside. Optimism is important, especially after - but we have - we are now day 21 with no speaker. Do you think there is still a chance, from the conversations you're hearing and having behind closed doors, that no one is able to emerge with 217?

ALFORD: Well, look, it's been kicked around before, even three weeks ago, that we doubt that even Jesus Christ could get 217 votes if it came down to it. I don't think we're at that level of pessimism today. Because of the agreements that have been made within our conference, we are now whittled down to men who can meet people in the middle. People like Kevin Hern, Mike Johnson, who can - who can bring in the Freedom Caucus, who can bring in some of the more liberal, if you will, or moderate Republicans who are here because they won in Biden districts. And so if we can get that unity in our party, we can move forward with the 217 votes on the floor.

The key is going to be getting the majority today and then calling for that roll call vote so everyone will have to get up and tell where they're -- they stand. And then that person can go to those holdouts, if you want to call them that, and try to win them over.

BOLDUAN: But I will say, people have not been afraid to stand up on the House floor and vote against folks. It doesn't seem that it's - that it's the secret ballot or the having to be public about their opposition that's holding this thing up. I mean you've got - I mean Kevin McCarthy calls them - what does he call them, the crazy eight at this point. I mean you've got - you know who they are.

ALFORD: Well, I'm not into name calling but I am into getting things done. And I think that --

BOLDUAN: That's not me. That's Kevin McCarthy, to be clear.

ALFORD: No, I know. I know. I think the way to get things done is in our family conference. Look, there are - you know, I'm a freshman. And there are a lot of personal grievances and hurt feelings within our conference right now. Those have been coming out during our conference meeting. Last week we had one that lasted three hours. And there was a lot of emotion being shared. I think that's healthy to some degree. People are getting to have conversations even after that, one-on-one. If we can reach common understanding, listen, respond and reflect to one another, I think we're going to be a lot better off as a conference and we're - a leader will emerge who can rally everyone around him to lead America.

BOLDUAN: Nice. No matter how much therapy you guys are getting inside that conference room, I still don't think that job's going to be any easier when you guys do -- do reach a conclusion.

Congressman, thank you so much for coming in. You can head back into that closed door meeting now. Thank you, sir.

John.

ALFORD: All right. Thank you, Kate.

BERMAN: Kate is not into name-calling.

New CNN reporting that Iranian-backed militia groups in many different countries surround Israel are planning to amp up attacks on U.S. forces in that region.

Also, face-to-face for the first time in five years, minutes from now, Donald Trump and his one-time fixer, Michael Cohen, will be in the same Manhattan courtroom.

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