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Ex-Trump Attorney Jenna Ellis Pleads Guilty in Georgia Election Case; House GOP Voting by Secret Ballot for New Speaker Nominee. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 24, 2023 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: She says she failed to do due diligence. The implication there perhaps is that she was told things by maybe Rudy Giuliani that were not true and now she regrets that she listened.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk about this. Let's bring in Norma Eisen. He's, of course, the former counsel for House Democrats during Donald Trump's first impeachment trial. Norm, what's your reaction to this?

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's another significant milestone in the path to accountability for the events that culminated in January 6th.

You now have three lawyers who are participating. A federal judge has called the assault on the 2020 election a coup in search of a legal theory. And Jenna Ellis today, last week, Ken Cheseboro and Sidney Powell, all three of them pleading, they were three of those who provided that defective legal theory.

Today's plea is important because Ms. Ellis really spoke to the false facts that underlie the assault. So, I think it's a significant milestone as we continue to seek accountability for the events of the 2020 election.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

BERMAN: Norm, stand by for one second. I want to bring back in Nick Valencia, who was the only journalist inside the courtroom for this moment that included this emotional statement from Jenna Ellis. Nick?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I just got out of the courtroom where we saw Jenna Ellis take that guilty plea. The dominoes are starting to fall against the former president, another major blow to his defense, as yet another one of his attorneys takes the guilty plea in this sprawling investigation from the Fulton County District Attorney's Office.

We were the only outlet in court to see this impromptu hearing. It was not scheduled by Judge McAfee. And I sat directly behind Jenna Ellis, and she had some really range of emotions. It was interesting because as she was being read, you know, the accusations against her which she was pleading guilty, it seemed as though she had a smirk with every -- it seemed as though she had a smirk while she was hearing those charges against her.

And then in a very striking moment, in an unprecedented moment so far in this trial, she stood up and addressed the court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNA ELLIS, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: In the wake of the 2020 presidential election, I believed that challenging the results on behalf of President Trump should be pursued in a just and legal way. I endeavored to represent my client to the best of my ability. I relied on others, including lawyers with many more years of experience than I, to provide me with true and reliable information, especially since my role involved speaking to the media and to legislators in various states.

What I did not do, but should have done, your Honor, was to make sure that the facts the other lawyers alleged to be true were in fact true. In the frenetic pace of attempting to raise challenges to the election in several states, including Georgia, I failed to do my due diligence.

I believe in and I value election integrity. If I knew then what I know now, I would have declined to represent Donald Trump in these post-election challenges. I look back on this whole experience with deep remorse.

For those failures of mine, your Honor, I have taken responsibility already before the Colorado bar who censured me, and I now take responsibility before this court and apologize to the people of Georgia. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Those words the first time that we've heard from a co- defendant in this case in open court make public comments. It was such a moment in court that Judge Scott McAfee who's presiding over this trial made a, you know, made it a point to thank Jenna Ellis for hearing her words or hearing from her in real time.

As part of this plea deal, she is being forced now to write an apology letter, as other co-defendants have who have taken plea deals. She's going to do 100 hours of community service and $5,000 fine, but perhaps most importantly, as with the case in other plea deals, she's going to have to testify against the remaining co-defendants in other future proceedings and trials related to this case. John.

BOLDUAN: All right. Nick, thank you so much, great reporting and getting there and bringing that to all of us.

Let's get over -- let's bring in Jessica Schneider as well on this. And, Jess, I know you'll remember that Jenna Ellis has been outspoken, maybe more than most kind of leading up to this moment. And hearing her then be outspoken in court saying, if I knew now -- knew then what I knew now, I would not have represented Donald Trump in those legal challenges against the 2020 election. JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and she has been very outspoken. We saw it today in court and we've seen it actually repeatedly over social media. Presumably, she won't be able to tweet like she has been tweeting because of the restrictions put on her by the judge here. But she's probably of the four people so far that we've seen plead guilty, including Kenneth Cheseboro, Sidney Powell, and then that bail bondsman.

[10:05:06]

Jenna Ellis, in the weeks leading up to this, has been the most outspoken against Trump. She has criticized him about not coming to the defense of the other 18 co-defendants in this criminal racketeering case in Georgia. She has talked about the mounting legal costs that she's been facing. She's also talked about, you know, why didn't Trump issue some sort of blanket pardon before he left office.

So, she has been very critical against the former president. And presumably now that she has to testify and speak truthfully in this case against other defendants, other co-defendants, including the former president, she potentially could be one of the more dangerous for Trump.

You know, she was in the room with Rudy Giuliani. She was -- as was mentioned by the state's attorney here, she was present and very active in those legislative hearings that they had in Georgia, in Michigan, Arizona, Pennsylvania, with Rudy Giuliani, side by side with him, trying to convince legislators to appoint those fake electors.

So, Jenna Ellis, really, she's shown it that she has an axe to grind here. She's very angry, or at least she's shown that anger in her tweets. She was a bit more subdued and very remorseful in her speech before the court today.

But, you know, Jenna Ellis seems to have a lot of anger toward Donald Trump. And the question is, how will that anger that she's shown over social media transpire when she's asked to give testimony and work with the prosecutors here in this ongoing case against the former president and all of those other defendants who are still facing those charges here, guys.

BERMAN: Yes. You would think it does increase the legal jeopardy, for sure, now the fourth of the co-defendants in the Fulton County case to enter into a plea agreement.

Jess, stand by for one minute. I want to bring back Ambassador Norm Eisen here.

Norm, as we said, four co-defendants have now entered into plea deals. She, Jenna Ellis, agreed to plead guilty to one count of aiding and abetting false statements in writing, again, this has to do with statements she made, alongside Rudy Giuliani in a Georgia hearing in December of 2020. None of the co-defendants has pleaded guilty to the RICO or racketeering charge yet, though. So, how do any, or do they, any of these guilty pleas, perhaps impact that, which is maybe the bigger of all the charges here? EISEN: John, they enable prosecutors -- the guilty pleas do -- they enable prosecutors to prove up the Rico charges against the most senior individuals who have been charged, of course, Mr. Giuliani and above all, the former president.

And that works in a variety of ways. You need to prove two predicate acts, two of the enumerated criminal acts under that RICO statute as one of the elements of proof, for example. Well, now you're going have Mr. Cheseboro, Ms. Powell, Jenna Ellis come in, and that streamlines the proof. Five months had been set aside for the Cheseboro trial, Cheseboro and Powell trial, because of that painstaking process. Now, it can move much more quickly.

And when you look at Ms. Ellis' tearful presentation, admitting that these falsehoods that Donald Trump still continues to push on the campaign trail were lies that she was misled, that's going to be very powerful for a jury, to his defense stands on two legs in Georgia and federally, John. One is that he actually won the election and the other is that's the factual predicate and the other is the legal argument. Therefore, I had the right to challenge it in the way that I did.

Well, Ms. Ellis, Ms. Powell, they were purveyors of those falsehoods about him winning. They've backed down, they've pled guilty. Mr. Cheseboro was a main architect of the legal theory. He's backed down. So, it pulls the rug out from under Donald Trump's defense. This is very, very ominous for him as a state and federal criminal defendant, same for Giuliani.

BOLDUAN: Norm Eisen, thank you so much for jumping on. Norm, we really appreciate it, Jessica Schneider, Nick Valencia for the great reporting. Thank you all so much. We're going to have much more on this and what it means and where this goes, but it looks like dominoes for sure.

Let's now turn to Capitol Hill, where we have some more breaking news coming in. We are now down to seven people, seven candidates in the speaker's race. House Republicans are voting behind closed doors right now as they try to pick a new speaker.

[10:10:01]

John is at the walls showing exactly where we stand. The latest to drop out, Alabama's Gary Palmer, withdrawing his name from consideration just moments ago.

Manu Raju spoke with Kevin McCarthy right before the meeting. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How does this reflect on the GOP, this whole episode of reflect on the House GOP at this moment?

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Oh, very poorly, very, very poorly from every aspect. And it's frustrating because it's just a few, these eight working with all the Democrats, to ruin the reputation of the Republicans.

But we'll earn it back. There has to be consequences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, that was before going in. There's a lot already coming out, Manu. What are you hearing now?

RAJU: Yes. They're actually voting on the first ballot in the secret ballot election. This is to nominate their candidate for speaker of the House after three weeks to the day when Kevin McCarthy was ousted in that historic and unprecedented vote, unable to get behind a candidate to replace them so far.

Republicans are furious about everything that has gone down there, have been at loggerheads with one another amid this Republican infighting that has left the House completely paralyzed. Nothing can be acted upon until the speaker of the House is elected.

And today, they're trying to nominate someone who would need to get a majority of the vote in the conference to get nominated. Then a majority of the House vote, a much higher threshold, 217, to be elected speaker. Unclear if that can happen.

But in talking to a number of the Republicans over the last day, it is very clear, they are getting an earful from their constituents back home and they are concerned that this fallout could cost them the Republican majority.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: What did you hear from a bunch constituents? What did you hear from the constituents this weekend about the dysfunction up here?

REP. DUSTY JOHNSON (R-SD): They just can't believe that we're this bad.

REP. MICHAEL GARCIA (R-CA): It's not positive. It's dilutive to our efforts, obviously, in keeping the majority.

REP. NICHOLAS LALOTA (R-NY): My constituents, my long-term constituents are pretty darn frustrated with this process. They want us to get on with business.

REP. ANTHONY D'ESPOSITO (R-NY): To quote another famous Long Islander, Billy Joel, you know, we didn't start this fire but we are going to do our best over the next 24 hours to come together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: But that is the big question or can they come together, even if a candidate is elected, nominated today by the House Republican Conference, getting to 217 votes is a different question all together. Steve Scalise, the House majority leader, and Jim Jordan, the House Judiciary Committee chairman, experienced themselves when being nominated over the last three weeks to be the next speaker but unable to get the votes in the House amid a rebellion in the ranks.

Right now, there's going to be a lot of focus in this vote that's happening on Tom Emmer the House Republican whip. Emmer is considered the front runner for the Republican nomination. How close does he get the 217 votes on this first ballot? And if he does not, what happens next? If nobody gets a majority on this vote with the seven candidates, they will keep voting until somebody gets the majority, the lowest candidate will drop off until they get to that point.

So, it could be several hours until we know who the Republican nominee is. And the question is, how close they are to that 217 number threshold. And I can tell you, Kate, in talking to some conservative members, some hardliners, part of that House Freedom Caucus, some of them are concerned about Emmer's voting record on spending issues.

So, that could be an issue for him in the days ahead if he does get the nomination. But any of these other candidates also have their own issues within the ranks. So, so many questions here about whether the House can actually move out of this state of paralysis, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, I mean, it feels like two steps forward, three steps back, two. I don't know where we are in the steps, but we clearly didn't start this fire.

Manu, thank you so much. We're going to get back to Manu as this continues throughout the morning, clearly a ton of developing stories that we're tracking for you right now.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

BERMAN: All right. We have breaking news on two fronts. Former Trump Campaign Attorney Jenna Ellis has entered into a plea deal with Fulton County prosecutors. She pleaded guilty to the aiding and abetting of making false statements in writing. She is now the fourth person in this wide-ranging Fulton County case to enter into a plea deal with prosecutors.

While that's going on, in Washington, D.C., there is currently behind closed doors. Republicans are meeting once again to try to nominate a House speaker. Two people have now dropped out of the race, Congressman Dan Meuser and Congressman Gary Palmer. That leaves seven remaining candidates. One of these people hopes to emerge in the next several hours to be the Republican choice to be speaker, whether they can win on the House floor, that's a whole other thing.

With us now, CNN Senior Political Commentator and former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger and CNN Political Commentator S.E. Cupp.

And, Congressman, I do want to start with you very quickly on Jenna Ellis. This is another plea deal. In this case, Jenna Ellis pleaded guilty to the aiding and abetting of making false statements in a hearing alongside Rudy Giuliani. You were so central in the House January 6th subcommittee, investigation there. I just want your reaction now that four people have pleaded guilty before our eyes in this case.

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's vindicating, of course, for the January 6th committee. It's vindicating for the country. I'm obviously glad that this case seems to be falling in line and I think I'd be worried if I was Donald Trump.

But I think you contrast as to what's going on in D.C today and you see people running for speaker that won't even say that the election was legitimate.

[10:20:06]

It goes to show how much lack of courage or how they don't care about the truth in some of those circles of the GOP.

So, with the exception of a few running, I think it's just an incredible dichotomy. I'm glad Jenna Ellis is facing justice. I think Donald Trump will face justice as a result of this, but it's amazing that dichotomy we're watching is, even what Jim Jordan just last week would refuse to say the election was legitimate.

BERMAN: You know, actually, and the Congressman right, S.E., there is a tie between what we're seeing these plea deals here and what's going on in Congress. You've had these two people drop out, but of the remaining, only Tom Emmer right here and also Austin Scott voted to certify the election in 2020. So, these are the only two people who said the election was legit and it's seen in Republican circles, S.E., as a knock against them.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. And I think most people at home are hearing Tom Emmer and Austin Scott and thinking who and who? You know, these are not well-known public-facing members of Congress and that's probably because they've kept their heads down and were not among the more vocal election deniers that we're parading around in the Republican Party.

So, whether they have a shot, I mean, this is a huge question and there's multiple layers here that are going into it. Yes, there's the policies that these guys represent. Can that get enough votes? Then there's the consensus. Will they be able to form a consensus not just inside the Republican Party, but across the aisle if that's still important?

And, finally, this doesn't get mentioned a lot, but it's important that the Republican speaker of the House would be able to fundraise, and for two people you've probably never heard of, that's going to be a heavy lift. You know, Republicans still want a speaker that can help raise money for Republicans. I'm not sure Tom Emmer and Austin Scott, you know, have the name I.D. to really do that in the way that Kevin McCarthy definitely did. BERMAN: Congressman, I am curious. Were you in that conference room right now, and not so long ago, I mean, we're talking months at this point, you would have been, would Tom Emmer be someone you could get behind?

KINZINGER: Well, it's a good question. Yes, to an extent, like knowing what I know now and if I was in a position where I had to pick one of the candidates running for speaker, one of the things I'd want to guarantee is that he was going to put Ukraine aid on the floor for a vote. That's important. He did vote to certify the election. But, you know, I'm just even seeing a tweet today from Matt Gaetz that said, all the speaker candidates have committed to releasing all the January 6th footage.

Well, okay, so two things. First off, you it's been released to a guy named Tucker Carlson, who basically went really quiet after he got it, which means it doesn't prove his point. But it's going to show again that the demands of these people, like Matt Gaetz, first off, are being met, which is frightening. But, secondly, their demands are still this obsession around January 6th. I mean, the number of them that told us, you know, Liz and I, to move on from January 6, but yet they're still talking about it, it's amazing to me.

So, yes, I guess if I was there knowing what I know now, I would probably vote for Tom Emmer or somebody like an Austin Scott. I think if they failed to reach the level, I would see myself being one of the crazy eight that just would refuse to vote for anybody else because I couldn't imagine voting for somebody that is running for the third, you know, second in line to be to be president of the United States, still refusing to tell the American people the truth, which is Donald Trump lost. He may have gotten a lot of votes, but Joe Biden got a whole lot more.

BERMAN: And, again, there is a connection to what's happening in Washington right now and what's happening in a Fulton County courtroom going on right now where Jenna Ellis, again, I'm going to circle her, she just entered into a plea deal.

And one of the things she said during her allocution, S.E., was if she knew then what she knows now, she would not have represented Donald Trump. I just wonder what your reaction is to hear from someone who was really one of his most vocal supporters, and that's an understatement, to hear someone like Jenna Ellis say that now.

CUPP: Well, this was probably on advice of counsel. She also says she trusted much older, more seasoned lawyers. She made a point of saying she was surrounded by other lawyers at that time. I don't know. It's hard because we all saw the bravado of people like Jenna Ellis for so long, standing up and sticking by the story and defending Donald Trump. And in recent months, she's turned the other direction.

[10:25:01]

But that is such a stark contrast to what we saw today, that emotional allocution, basically saying I shouldn't have done this and I wish I had known better. It's really hard to square that with, again, the bravado that we've seen from her and others for so long and the bravado that Giuliani still has, right? He's still insisting he's innocent and everyone else is corrupt, everyone but him.

So, you know, I don't know. I don't trust a lot of these folks because I think there was so much willingness on their part to defend Donald Trump and lie to the American people. It's really hard to imagine their sudden regret.

BERMAN: S.E. Cupp, Adam Kinzinger, a remarkable morning here. Thank you so much for helping us understand it all.

We've also got new developments out of Israel. We're going to have much more right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]