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Israel at War; Release Of Several Hostages, The Subject Of Active Negotiations, Sources Say; Released Israeli Hostage By Hamas Recounted Moments Of Being Kidnapped And Held Captive; Release Of 4 Hamas Hostages, More Than 200 Remain Captive; Food, Water, And Fuel Shortages In Gaza Making Humanitarian Crisis Worse; As Israel Readies For Military Assault, Hamas Releases 2 More Hostages; Interview With Former CIA Director And U.S. CENTCOM Former Commander Gen. David Petraeus (Ret.); Now Just 6 Candidates In House Speaker Race; After First Secret Ballot Vote, Rep. Sessions No Longer Candidate For Speaker; First Secret Speaker Ballot, Emmer Leads While Sessions Out; Police Close To Naming Suspect In Murder Of Synagogue Leader. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired October 24, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:30:40]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: All right. Happening now, we are just getting word that intense talks are going on at this moment to free a large number of the more than 200 people that could be hostage right now by Hamas in Gaza, but we are told the negotiations are, of course, complicated. So far, four of these hostages have been freed total. including two just yesterday. One of them an elderly Israeli woman spoke out this morning, she said, her ordeal, I should say, was hell.

Let's get right to Sara Sidner who's in Jerusalem for the latest on all of this. Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: Yes. I mean, the stories of one of those released hostages that she is telling are riveting and terrifying at the same time that also shows her humanity in what some might see as a surprising way. The two ladies who were released were taken from the Nir Oz kibbutz, 79-year-old Nurit Cooper and 85-year-old Yocheved Lifshitz were released overnight and are back in Israel finally today.

Lifshitz is talking about her ordeal. She says her experience was hellish. She was kidnapped on a motorbike, riding on her side, all bruised up as she was taken into Gaza. She is a grandmother, and one of the founders of that kibbutz, and a long-time peace activist. She spoke not just about the terror that she experienced along with her husband and others, but how her captors treated her as they held her and dozens of others in the maze of tunnels Hamas has built under the Gaza Strip. She also criticized the Israeli security apparatus, saying, they missed the signs, something big may have been coming. Here's some of what she said after being released.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) YOCHEVED LIFSHITZ, HOSTAGE RELEASED BY HAMAS (through translator): The lack of awareness by Shin Bet and the IDF hurt us a lot. They warned us three weeks beforehand. They burned fields. They sent fire balloons. And the IDF did not treat it seriously. All of the sudden, on a Saturday morning, everything was very quiet. There was a hard pounding on the settlement, hoards broke into the homes, part were taken hostages. It was a painful act. They brought us into a gate, I was lying on the side on a motorbike. I got bruises which because of the drive it made breathing hard.

SHARONE LIFSCHITZ, DAUGHTER OF HOSTAGE RELEASED BY HAMAS: My mom is very much hoping that all the people that were with her will come back. And the story is not over until everybody comes back and we can start building again something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: She also talked about the treatment she received from her captors, saying that they were treated well for what it is worth. But of course, her terror began when she was kidnapped in the first place. And so many people were killed at her kibbutz and others. Her heart, by the way, is still in Gaza because her husband is still a hostage, and so is Nurit Cooper's husband. Their ordeal, not over by any stretch of the imagination. The Israeli military is estimating that there still 218 hostages that are in Gaza, likely in that labyrinth of tunnels under the Gaza Strip that Hamas has built.

I do want to mention also what is happening in Gaza. It is truly terrifying. The Palestinian population there is in dire shape there, a humanitarian catastrophe has unfolded because of airstrikes and the lack of food, water and medical supplies due to the Israeli blockade. Medical care has now completely collapsed, according to the Palestinian health ministry run by Hamas in Gaza. Doctors have told us that they are completely overwhelmed, and the hospitals can't maintain services to all of the people who need it.

And now we're hearing this from Save the Children. They said on Monday that over 1 million children are now trapped in Gaza with no safe place to go, and warned of the devastating impacts of the lack of medication and electricity to power vital health infrastructure in the enclave.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Sara, thank you so much. Let's talk about all of this now with the Retired General David Petraeus, of course, also a former director of the CIA, and also the author of the new book, "Conflict: The Evolution of Warfare from 1945 to Ukraine."

[10:35:00]

General, thank you so much. Sara laid out, kind of, the scope of everything, how challenging and horrible all of this is that is playing out right now. I've heard you describe this war as maybe more challenging than any of the conflicts since 1945 that you have studied. I mean, people are comparing the fight to come ahead in Gaza to battle for Fallujah or Mosul. What do you think of that comparison?

GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS (RET.), FORMER CIA DIRECTOR, FORMER COMMANDER, U.S. CENTCOM: They are inadequate. This is vastly more challenging. The enemy has had many months to prepare here. They'll face snipers, suicide bombers, again, 300 miles of tunnels. They'll use the hostages as human shields, use civilians as human shields as well. They don't wear uniforms. The high-rises are substantial. If the mission is, and I believe it is and should be, to destroy Hamas.

And by the way, they're also intending to dismantle the political wing, that requires entering every building and clearing every floor, room, cellar, tunnel, and then leaving substantial forces behind so that the enemy cannot reinfiltrate behind you, and then doing this progressively. It takes an enormous amount of infantry to do this. You can do the math on this and there will be very tough casualties because at a certain point, you do have to enter those rooms, and again, some will be explosives laid in it and so on.

So, a very, very challenging situation. The Israelis, clearly, are trying to set conditions that will be more advantageous than otherwise by going after specific targets. They're announcing the individuals that they're taking out on the Hamas side as well, including again some of these political wing leaders. And that's important because it means that the Hamas government, if you will, will not be there when this is done, and that of course poses the challenge of the day after the post conflict phase which could be even more challenging in a variety of ways than even the very, very tough combat lies ahead.

BOLDUAN: And that's what I wanted to ask you about, the day after. The question of once they succeed in taking out Hamas, then what? Have you heard a good answer for that yet? And should we all, should Israel be -- have that out publicly yet?

PETRAEUS: Well, first, I think, what Israel should do is to paint a vision of the future for the Palestinian people in Gaza, distinguishing them that war is not on them, it is on this terrorist group Hamas and its allies, the Islamist jihad. But they should lay out a vision. Life will be better.

You know, when we did the surge in Iraq and we sought to separate the Sunni Arab Community from Al-Qaeda, we said if you support us against Al-Qaeda, life is going to be better for you. And we laid out concretely how that would be. They need to do the same, frankly, I think for the West Bank. But the real challenge, of course, is who will administer this territory? Ideally, it should be Palestinians. They don't want to ride in on the backs of Israeli tanks, needless those optics would be horrible.

So, it seems to me inevitable that Israel has to do this for a period of time while working feverishly together with support from the United States to figure out how they can get in a -- an interim international authority. Noting, by the way, Kate, that this authority is not just going to do humanitarian assistance and restoration and basic services and reconstruction. It's going to have a hard edge to it because it's going to have to conduct a counter insurgency campaign to ensure that these terrorist groups -- there will be remnants of them cannot reconstitute. That is crucial.

We know that extremist groups. We destroyed the Islamic state during the surge in Iraq, cut them down for three and a half years, and then when the Iraqi government took their eye off of them, they were able to reconstitute and a couple of years later they had the first ever caliphate that then had to be painstakingly taken apart.

By the way, one of those huge panels was Mosul, a city similar to the size of Gaza that without the tunnel structure that without an enemy that understood it as well, it took nine months for the Iraqi Security Forces to clear it with our assistance. Nowhere near the capabilities of the Israelis to be sure, but again it gives you some sense of how tough this fighting would be.

BOLDUAN: Nine months. And if anyone knows about counterinsurgency campaigns, General, it would be you. But there is also something, another thing that is different today. This time than really any other time that we have or already are starting to see, and I wanted to ask you about it. Other wars -- different from other wars, what it seems that we're seeing play out already is this is a war that's being essentially livestreamed, because -- just of the capabilities --

PETRAEUS: Yes.

BOLDUAN: -- of technologies today.

[10:40:00]

What is the impact, do you think, going to be of that? What new challenge does it pose? And what do people need to be prepared for?

PETRAEUS: Yes, we're seen this in Ukraine to a considerable degree where you have an unprecedented level of transparency. Everyone in the battlefield has a smart phone, access to the internet and social media platforms under which they can load video, photos, statements and so forth. And the optics here are going to be very, very challenging. There is already considerable destruction and damage despite Israel trying to do this precisely. They're going after specific targets, specific terrorist leaders, and also specific infrastructure elements of Hamas, but still the destruction is very substantial.

The same was true in Mosul. And those optics are going to be, look, very difficult, and they will be very difficult. The reality will be excruciating. We see this also with the humanitarian situation. And in fact, Hamas is trying to play on that. They're dribbling out the hostages, trying to show that they have a kinder and gentler side when it's they who, of course, who have brought this existential moment in this tragedy for the Palestinian people in Hamas on -- in Gaza on themselves.

But that level of the transparency is going to be something that is going to create the challenges for Israel, and I would contend that it already is. That's just a reality and it will create challenges for those who are seeking to stand by Israel as we are, rightly, and is something that will have to be dealt with. So, media monitoring, as we did during the surges in Iraq, isn't just going to be TV stations, radio stations, and print media. It's going to be innumerable social media platforms and posts on Twitter, Facebook, and so forth, and that is a major challenge.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And all of it moving at light speed even more, far more than what we're talking 10, 15 years ago. General, thank you for your time. Please come back.

PETRAEUS: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much.

We're going to continue to follow the very latest developments out of Israel. We're also getting some more news out of Capitol Hill on the first round of voting for House Republicans behind closed doors and their quest still to find a speaker. What the results of that first round of voting, and why they are already now down to six candidates. We will be right back.

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[10:47:00]

BERMAN: All right. Just in, movement now in the Republican quest to find a new speaker of the House. Representative Gary Meuser and Gary Palmer, they dropped out before the voting started. And now, Congressman Pete Sessions is out. He was the low vote getter in the first round of voting.

Let's find out more about where things seemed to be headed. Our Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. OK. Manu, what is happening?

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, high drama here. Now, there are six candidates to be speaker of the House after Pete Sessions was forced out of this race, being the lowest vote getter. Now, we have the vote totals that happened in the secret ballot election. Tom Emmer at 78 votes, he's the House Republican with the leading candidate here. Mike Johnson of Louisiana has 34 votes. Byron Donalds 29. Kevin Hern 27. The rest were in the teens.

So, they'll go out now on the second round of balloting. The ultimate goal is for someone to get a majority vote, to be the nominee for the GOP to be speaker of the house. But there are some warning signs for the leading vote getter Tom Emmer. You know, if he gets the nomination, he will need to get 217 votes on the House floor to be elected, meaning he cannot lose more than four Republicans.

But some of them are concerned about some of his votes, including to codify same-sex marriage in the last Congress. I just asked one congressman about that issue, and me made clear that he would oppose Tom Emmer on the floor over that vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: How concerned are you about his vote on same-sex marriage?

REP. RICK ALLEN (R-GA): Very concerned.

RAJU: Could you vote against him?

ALLEN: Yes.

RAJU: Would you -- are you going to -- is there any way you would vote for him?

ALLEN: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, that is the same warning sign that Emmer has and other candidates before him have, winning the Republican nomination but unable to get the votes on the House floor. We'll see if it comes to that of whether Emmer is able to get 217 votes or any of these candidates. But at the moment, the goal is to get a majority of the conference, to get the nomination, get elected speaker, and try to move forward that made this leadership crisis that has paralyzed House. Guys.

BERMAN: Manu, OK. Big information there. Pete Sessions is out, he was the low vote getter -- forgive my handwriting here. Tom Emmer, 78 votes in the first round. He would need to get to around 110 there. You can see the distance he will have to cover in each round as they continue voting. So, when we get the results back from the second vote, which I imagine, Manu, is happening right now, the key will be to see how much Tom Emmer gains. How close does he get in this case to the 110 votes he needs there.

All right. Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, keep us posted. This is all developing at this moment.

In the meantime, police in Detroit say they are closer to naming a suspect in the murder of a prominent synagogue leader.

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[10:54:12]

BOLDUAN: So, police in Detroit say they are getting close to naming a suspect in the stabbing death of a prominent synagogue leader from over the weekend. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JAMES WHITE, DETROIT POLICE: We have a number of people that give us interest. We are just short of calling one of the people a suspect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: The city's police chief also, is again saying so far they do not see evidence linking the attack to antisemitism.

Let's get over to CNN's Omar Jimenez, he's in Detroit for us. Omar, what more are you hearing?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, right now, at this point, the community and others are waiting to see when a suspect will actually officially be named. As you just heard from the police chief, they do have a number of people of interest, and at least one of them, they believe, is close to being a suspect but not quite there yet.

[10:55:00]

We also heard the police chief doubled down that as of right now, they do not believe, based on the information they have, that this killing was motivated by antisemitism. But they also said they are not ruling out anything, they are going to go where the investigation takes them.

Another thing we learned that was new is more specifically about the timeline. Samantha Woll, the 40-year-old Jewish synagogue leader who was found dead, she was at a wedding Friday night, got home around 12:30 in the morning, early Saturday morning, and it was about six hours later, around 6:30 in the morning that her body was found.

So, obviously a lot of police attention on those six hours, but it's also a time period that robbed this community of a friend, for the people who knew her, a light in their lives. We spoke to one senator who was with Woll at that wedding Friday night but had also known her for years. Take a listen to a little of how she's processing this loss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE SEN. STEPHANIE CHANG (D-MI): It was amazing at the funeral just to see how many people's lives she touched. And many people having no idea how much she has changed other people's lives in addition to their own. So, I hope that Sam will always be remembered for being, you know, a changemaker and someone who was such a kind person. Someone who really inspired all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: Samantha Woll was 40 years old. She was the leader of the synagogue behind me. Many still in shock over how this happened. Now, they just want to know why.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Omar, thank you so much.

John.

BERMAN: All right. We do have breaking news. A second round of voting now amid Republicans for the next house speaker. Congressman Jack Bergman, he is out. So, then there were five. We are also hearing that Tom Emmer is the leading vote getter. He got 90, we are told, in this latest round. Bringing him closer, perhaps, to a majority in the Republican conference. We will get the very latest in just moments on that race.

Meanwhile, the other major news this morning, Jenna Ellis, former Trump campaign attorney, she has now pleaded guilty in the Georgia case, the Georgia election subversion case. There are now four people to enter guilty pleas there. Hers, hugely significant. Who among the remaining defendants should be the most nervous?

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