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Michael Cohen Testifies in Trump's Civil Fraud Trial; Ex-Trump Attorney Jenna Ellis Pleads Guilty in Georgia Case; Talks Ongoing to Free Large Numbers of Hamas Hostages. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired October 24, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: I'm Boris Sanchez alongside Brianna Keilar in Washington. Jake Tapper is live for us in Tel Aviv.

And we're following the latest developments out of Israel, where, right now, talks are continuing to free a large number of the more than 200 people being held hostage by Hamas, this as one of two Israeli hostages released yesterday is now speaking out about her harrowing experience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YOCHEVED LIFSHITZ, HOSTAGE RELEASED BY HAMAS (through translator): I went through hell that I could not have known. I was kidnapped on a motorbike on my side while they were driving towards Gaza.

As we got there, the people told us that they are people who believe in the Koran and that they will not harm us and that we will get the same conditions they get in the tunnels. We began walking inside the tunnels with the wet ground.

There were guards and a paramedic and a doctor who took care of the fact that we would have the same medicine that we need. There, we lied on mattresses. They took care of the sanitary side, so we won't get sick. And we had a doctor who came to see us every two to three days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: As Israeli troops gear up to launch a possible ground assault on Gaza, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warned today that it could be a long war.

In just the past 24 hours, the Israeli military says it bombed more than 400 terror targets in Gaza, killing several Hamas commanders -- Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Right now, the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is dire.

Residents are running out of food, water, and fuel. Today, the Israeli Defense Forces' chief of staff said efforts are being made to provide access to fuel in Gaza, but made it clear that Israel will not allow that fuel to reach Hamas. For more, let's bring in CNN's Jeremy Diamond right now live in

Ashkelon, Israel.

And, Jeremy, the ongoing hostage negotiations are, of course, being complicated by a number of factors. Where do things stand right now?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, these are extremely complex negotiations, for the first part because they involve so many different countries. The United States does not speak directly to Hamas because it has designated it a terrorist organization, nor does Israel, of course.

But Qatar and Egypt have been playing key roles as mediators in these ongoing negotiations. And the goal now, for the United States, at least, is to try and get a big batch of hostages released all at once. We have seen over the last several days as two Americans were initially released and then last night these two elderly Israeli women who were also released on what Hamas is calling humanitarian grounds.

Now the goal is to try and get a larger group of hostages to be released all at once. But there are a number of complicating factors, not only the number of countries that are involved, but also simply the conditions for what -- for the release of these hostages.

Hamas, for example, has been calling for a cease-fire in order to release hostages. Israel has said that that is out of the question. Israel had also previously said that releasing fuel to Gaza was also out of the question.

But, today, the IDF chief of staff, the top general, saying that Israel will begin to allow fuel into Gaza for civilian purposes, but that they will ensure that no fuel reaches Hamas. Amid all of these ongoing negotiations, we know that President Biden and the Israeli prime minister, Bibi Netanyahu, have remained in very, very close touch, close touch, of course, to talk about the coming ground invasion and when that might begin, but also, of course, to talk about these ongoing hostage negotiations.

TAPPER: Yes, I'm not sure how you prevent the fuel from reaching Hamas, given that they control Gaza.

But, Jeremy, how could the hostage negotiations impact the potentially imminent ground incursion?

DIAMOND: Well, Jake, for now, it appears that Israel has delayed its ground invasion to allow for more time for these hostage negotiations.

I spoke with two people familiar with these negotiations who told me that Israel appeared willing to delay this invasion for at least a few days to allow for some time for these negotiations to continue to take place. But these people also said that it's very clear that Israel is prepared, they are ready to begin that ground operation, and that they simply won't delay it for more than a few days if no progress is made on the hostage negotiation front.

Once again today, Jake, we were driving along the border with Gaza and, in fact, the perimeter of -- for where we are actually allowed in near where these hundreds of tanks and armored personnel carriers and bulldozers are all stationed and prepared to go in, that perimeter has been extended.

[13:05:14]

So there has been movement of troops. And journalists and other members of the public are allowed -- are not allowed to go as close as we were even just yesterday -- Jake.

TAPPER: Interesting. Jeremy Diamond in Ashkelon, thank you so much.

My next guest hopes that he too can soon reunite with his loved one who was also taken hostage by Hamas. This is al Elkana Bohbot. Elkana stayed behind at the music festival, the Nova music festival, where we now know several hundred, 260, at least, were massacred.

Elkana stayed back to make sure his friends were OK, according to his brother, who says he learned Elkana was captive, was kidnapped when he saw Elkana restrained and bruised in a Hamas video that had posted online.

Uriel Bohbot joins me now from Jerusalem.

Uriel, thank you for being here. I cannot imagine what you're going through. I have a brother who I love so much.

What goes through your mind when you hear stories from the freed hostages talking about their time captive, talking about not being treated as poorly as the 1,300 Israelis who they massacred brutally?

URIEL BOHBOT, BROTHER OF ELKANA BOHBOT: Yes, I'm very -- to be honest with you, I'm happy to hear that, but I need to see proof, right, because I don't have any more information, except of that video that I found out online that my brother get kidnapped.

So I don't know if to believe it or no. You never know what they told her to say. And I don't know if to trust them after this attack.

TAPPER: You're now helping to care for Elkana's 3-year-old child. What do you tell the child about his dad? What is he capable of understanding at this point?

BOHBOT: So, he -- what we told the -- his son, that he is in work, he's working right now, he's far away, and because there's many, many people that come to visit us.

And he don't see his father, and he see a lot of his friends. So, we explained to him that his father in -- is working right now, and everybody here come to help us on his job, something like that. He try -- he start to ask, where is my father, where he is, where he is? He always want to be with his mom. He don't want to leave her for a second.

You can see his situation...

TAPPER: Yes.

BOHBOT: ... it's now -- it's changed, yes.

TAPPER: CNN spoke with you the day after Hamas terrorists abducted Elkana at the Nova music festival.

Have you learned anything more about his condition? Do you know if he's still being held by Hamas? Or has he been given to Islamic Jihad or another group?

BOHBOT: So, it's externally disappointing, but we don't know nothing more than that video.

All what we can do is just to getting my brother out with his picture, with his story to the world to share and to make sure everybody know about him. I really worry about his safety, about his health. And that's all I can do.

We have talked with the government. They are visiting us every two days, but there is no new information, nothing.

TAPPER: So far, the Israeli military, the IDF, has held off on its ground incursion into Gaza, but they obviously continue to prepare for it.

There are obviously a lot of concerns that any incursion into Gaza might have a bad effect on the hostages. If you could talk to Netanyahu or to the head of the IDF, what would you say to him, as someone whose brother is believed to be held in Gaza right now?

BOHBOT: So, that, hopefully, they're doing something underground that nobody know to get out all the hostages before they go inside or before they do anything that can make this opportunity to get them out, more far away.

We don't want to wait. My opinion, my winning is to bring my brother home as soon as possible, to bring them now. And I don't care about nothing else, to be honest with you, nothing...

TAPPER: Yes.

BOHBOT: ... just my brother alone.

TAPPER: Yes. That's what I would be thinking too, if it were my brother.

[13:10:02]

I hope that Elkana gets brought back to his son and back to you, back to his wife soon.

Uriel, thank you so much -- Boris and Brianna, back to you.

SANCHEZ: We are tracking breaking news from Capitol Hill.

What started this morning as nine Republicans running for House speaker is now down to one.

KEILAR: Yes, a short time ago, House Republicans emerged from behind this closed-door meeting, and they revealed that Majority Whip Tom Emmer of Minnesota is their pick for speaker.

But let's be clear. This is their latest nominee. And we know what that means. That doesn't mean necessarily he's going to be speaker.

So let's get right to CNN's Melanie Zanona, who's on Capitol Hill.

He wins the nomination, but he has some hurdles ahead of him, as we have seen.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, that's exactly right.

It's a two-part battle for the gavel. Tom Emmer did win the GOP nomination behind closed doors. It took him five rounds of secret ballot voting, but now the question is whether he can get 217 votes on the House floor, which has so far been an impossible task in this badly divided GOP.

Now, Emmer is taking a slightly different strategy than some of the past GOP nominees. He is currently having roll call votes behind closed doors on his nomination to see if he can get to 217 before he leaves that room. I'm told that he does not want to exit that room and go to the floor until he knows for certain that he has 217 votes.

It's really a strategy trying to avoid the same public displays of embarrassment and dysfunction that we have seen in the past. But, as of right now, guys, we are hearing that he does not have the votes. His opposition is over 20 at this point. Emmer is in the room fielding questions and concerns from members.

But we talked to some of those members even before the vote about some of their concerns. They're concerned about his voting record on spending, his support for gay marriage. There's also some concern that he is not closely aligned enough with former President Donald Trump.

Let's listen to what those members had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Mr. Perry, would you be comfortable with Tom Emmer if he's the nominee, given his votes on spending?

REP. SCOTT PERRY (R-PA): I'm concerned about that.

RAJU: How concerned are you about his vote on same-sex marriage?

REP. RICK ALLEN (R-GA): Very concerned.

RAJU: Could you vote against him?

ALLEN: Yes.

RAJU: Are you going to -- is there any way you would vote for him?

ALLEN: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: So, of course, the question is if and when Tom Emmer can get to 217. And if he doesn't, what do Republicans do next? Do they try to have yet another candidate forum, elect another speaker candidate, or do they start looking at alternative options?

I caught up with David Joyce. He's a congressman from Ohio. He's pushing a resolution to temporarily empower the interim speaker, Patrick McHenry, so that the interim speaker can do more than just reside over floor votes for nominations for speaker, that he can actually pass legislation.

So he said, if Emmer can't get there, that he is willing to potentially bring that up. But, at this point guys, Emmer's still trying to lock down those votes for the speakership -- Brianna and Boris.

KEILAR: All right, we will see how this shakes out.

I feel like we have been here before. I say that every time.

SANCHEZ: We've seen this movie once or twice.

KEILAR: Melanie Zanona, always great to see you, though, even under the circumstances.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Thank you so much.

So, another former Trump attorney flipping in the Georgia election subversion case. What this signals for the former president.

SANCHEZ: And the former president in court today in New York face to face for the first time in five years with this man, his former fixer Michael Cohen taking the stand against his old boss.

We're live outside the courthouse next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:27]

KEILAR: And then there were three.

Jenna Ellis is now the latest Trump attorney or former Trump attorney to flip in the Georgia election subversion case. She pleaded guilty to one count of aiding and abetting false statements.

SANCHEZ: She's also going to cooperate with prosecutors who are recommending five years of probation and for her to pay $5,000 in restitution. The former Trump attorney delivered a tearful statement to the judge

while pleading guilty, disavowing her participation in the former president's effort to overturn the 2020 election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNA ELLIS, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR LEGAL ADVISER: I endeavored to represent my client to the best of my ability. I relied on others, including lawyers with many more years of experience than I, to provide me with true and reliable information.

What I did not do, but should have done, Your Honor, was to make sure that the facts the other lawyers alleged to be true were in fact true. In the frenetic pace of attempting to raise challenges to the election in several states, including Georgia, I failed to do my due diligence.

I believe in and I value election integrity. If I knew then what I know now, I would have declined to represent Donald Trump in these post-election challenges. I look back on this whole experience with deep remorse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: That tearful admission comes after last week's guilty pleas from former Trump campaign lawyers Sidney Powell and Kenneth Chesebro.

Let's get some legal perspective now with CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams.

Elliot, if you're on Donald Trump's legal team, they continue to claim that this is a political hit job. It's hard to do that when your own former attorneys are pleading guilty.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: That's exactly it, Boris.

In order for someone to plead guilty, they have to admit that they committed a criminal offense, and not only that. A judge has to accept the plea. If the judge thinks that either something is political or a person is just pleading guilty to make a case go away, they won't accept the guilty plea.

So the whole idea that this is a hit job keeps getting undermined every time one of these people pleads guilty.

KEILAR: This "If I knew then what I knew now," I mean, we all knew then what she knows now or should have then. It was widely available to her.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KEILAR: She was doing interviews where the -- she wasn't in a silo. She was confronted with the information...

WILLIAMS: Right.

KEILAR: ... right in that moment over and over and over again, including by Bill Barr.

Is she a witness that is really going to work for the prosecution?

WILLIAMS: Well, yes, insofar as she's an attorney who would have had private conversations with the defendant and Rudy Giuliani and others.

The thing that's really hard to stomach, which is what you're getting at in the question too, Brianna, is this idea of, well, I didn't exercise due diligence.

[13:20:00]

If you're an attorney, you have one job. And that is to exercise due diligence on behalf of your client. And when people are coming to you with claims, you have a duty to check them out and vet them. And now, all of a sudden, once you have been charged with a crime, you're starting to come to Jesus about it, is nonsense.

And I think it's fair to say that many of these folks knew exactly what they were doing at the time they did it.

SANCHEZ: You made a point to emphasize Rudy Giuliani there.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SANCHEZ: How much trouble does this mean for the former New York mayor?

WILLIAMS: I think far -- certainly trouble, maybe even more so than the former president, only insofar as she interacted with Rudy Giuliani directly and would have been engaged with him on any number of things. It's always hard in these big RICO conspiracies to tie it to the person all the way up at the top, but when one person's testifying, they can testify against other co-defendants.

And I think Rudy Giuliani is probably the person here that she's most tied to. Now, look, this is not great for Donald Trump. Any time you're charged with other defendants in a criminal proceeding, and they start pleading guilty. It just gets more likely that they're going to have evidence against you.

KEILAR: And we're looking at maybe -- I mean, you would think there would be others who might plead guilty in this Georgia case, but even so, just now with three former attorneys...

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KEILAR: ... what does this mean in the federal election subversion case?

WILLIAMS: Because of the fact that this is all election subversion and the facts as alleged in Georgia also are relevant to the federal election case, these folks may have testimony to provide there.

And, who knows, perhaps they're having conversations with Jack Smith and the prosecutors who are bringing the federal election case. It's just not -- I mean, I know it sounds a little cute and coy that it's just not great, but it's really not good when your folks start pleading guilty, and it can play in the other case as well.

SANCHEZ: Elliot Williams, thanks so much for the expertise.

WILLIAMS: Thanks, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Appreciate it.

So he was once Donald Trump's loyal fixer, but now Michael Cohen is testifying as the star witness in the former president's civil fraud case in New York.

KEILAR: Yes, so, the two, they haven't come face to face in five years, not since Cohen flipped on his old boss, testifying before Congress about some of Trump's alleged business practices, allegations that triggered the lawsuit that brought the two full circle to where they are right now.

We have CNN's Brynn Gingras, who's joining us from outside of the courthouse there.

Brynn, what are we learning from Cohen's testimony and what is it like there inside the courthouse?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, dramatic, Brianna and Boris.

We're actually at a lunch break right now, but Michael Cohen was on the stand before that recess was taken, essentially being questioned by the New York attorney general's office. He talked about those 2018 federal convictions that he had. He talked about his role within Trump Organization and for the president as his personal attorney when he worked there.

And then it got into the part that is really pivotal to this entire case. And that's testimony. Michael Cohen said that, basically, in conversations with Donald Trump, Trump would just throw out a number, a net worth, that he wanted to achieve.

And Cohen claimed or testified that it was up to him and former CFO of Trump Organization Allen Weisselberg to reverse-engineer, in his words, the numbers in order to achieve that net worth. So that's basically the whole crux of this case summed up in that sentence. And that is what we left on when this recess was taken, pretty dramatic moments, though, as you guys just pointed out, the fact that Michael Cohen and Donald Trump have not been in the same room together for five years.

Of course, they have taken out lashings at each other publicly, on social media, in interviews, but face to face is a whole different story. My colleagues Jeremy Herb and Lauren del Valle in the courtroom said Trump just pretty much sat back in his chair with his arms crossed, listening intently to the testimony of Michael Cohen.

When they left the courtroom for lunch, Michael Cohen said -- quote -- "That was a heck of a reunion."

As for Trump, he said that Michael Cohen has a horrible record and he's not too worried about his testimony. So we expect Michael Cohen to be on the stand for at least the next -- today and tomorrow. We will see how the testimony picks back up. But, again, before we left, that was a main part of the New York attorney general's case in this civil trial is what Michael Cohen said right there -- guys.

SANCHEZ: Brynn Gingras outside the courthouse in New York, thanks so much.

House Republican lawmakers have picked Congressman Tom Emmer as their new speaker-designate. It's the third time that Republicans have tried to find a new speaker. We will take you live to Capitol Hill with the latest and see if the third time is the charm.

KEILAR: Yes, we will.

Plus, a doctor in Gaza is now warning that the enclave's largest hospital could become a mass grave if fuel runs out. And they are perilously close there.

We're going to take a look at the push to get aid in and speak to an American who is desperately trying to get out of the Gaza Strip.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: As the humanitarian crisis in Gaza continues to grow worse by the day, the IDF now says that fuel will be sent to civilians in Gaza, but will not allow that fuel to reach Hamas.

Food, water and fuel is quickly running out as Israeli strikes, airstrikes, continue. According to the U.N. humanitarian coordinator, hospitals and emergency services are on the brink of collapse. In this video, you can see first responder take -- first responders taking patients into dark hospitals.

Doctors are warning that Gaza's largest hospital will become a mass grave if it runs out of fuel.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz joins us now.

And, Salma, what more do we know about this promise from the IDF to allow fuel to reach Gaza civilians? And will it be enough?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, this is an extremely important update. And it does offer a sliver of hope.

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