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U.S. Urging Israel to Avoid Full-Scale Ground Assault in Gaza?; Will Republicans Finally Elect New House Speaker?. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired October 25, 2023 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:01:50]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Will the House get back to work today? First -- you know how this goes. First, they need a speaker, which means, first, they need to go to the floor and vote yet again. That could happen next hour, when Republicans have called a vote again. And Donald Trump, he just weighed in as well.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Explosions in Gaza as Israel carries out new airstrikes, a ground invasion seemingly on hold, as Israel seems to be letting diplomatic disputes play out.

BOLDUAN: A new legal reality for Donald Trump, his former chief of staff granted immunity. What Mark Meadows is reportedly ready to say under oath about his former boss.

I'm Kate Bolduan, with John Berman. Sara Sidner is on assignment in Israel. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

Next hour, the House of Representatives, and Republicans especially, are going to give it another go. They're going to gather and try once again to elect a new speaker. This is a try for the fourth time in less than a month.

Senior Republicans tell CNN that they do think that Louisiana Congressman and the now Republican nominee for speaker, if you will, Mike Johnson, they do believe he can with the gavel on his first try. Johnson is the latest lawmaker tapped to fill the job that has been vacant now for 22 days.

In those 22 days, there have been 14 candidates, four nominees and three floor votes. If Johnson -- if he is elected, Johnson would be the least experienced -- that's not like a subjective call either. It's really talking about the resumes of the past speakers -- the least experienced House speaker in recent history.

Johnson is a four-term congressman who's never held a senior leadership position. The question on everyone's minds right now is, can Mike Johnson do what Steve Scalise, Jim Jordan and Tom Emmer could not?

CNN's Manu Raju has all of the answers on Capitol Hill.

First and foremost, is the vote going to happen? I feel like everything is so up in the air. Let's just start with the basics.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think that it's widely expected that it will happen.

And there's growing momentum and expectation that Mike Johnson will get the votes today and will end this very ugly and messy period for the GOP, where they have been in complete disarray over the past three weeks, after the ouster of Kevin McCarthy, the first time ever a sitting speaker pushed out of the hands of his own colleagues and then failing to get behind any speaker candidate to replace him.

Three different candidates saw their bids collapse, including another one just yesterday.

But, ultimately, the Republican Conference settled in on Mike Johnson, a conservative member, someone who is aligned with the more far right elements of his conference on social issues and on fiscal issues and someone who has -- is seen acceptable to some of the more moderate members, who are just simply concerned about everything that has gone down, and even if they supported and wanted Kevin McCarthy to stay in the speakership, say they are weary, they are tired of the infighting, and there's time to simply put this chapter behind them and open the House back up for governing.

[11:05:05]

No governing can happen unless a speaker is elected, which underscores the depth of the problem the Republicans are in, as this House remains paralyzed amid key issues awaiting action.

Now, Johnson is expected -- is already taking steps to -- laying out how he would deal with the job as speaker, just this morning sending out a letter to his colleagues detailing how he would approach some of the key issues that he would face, including how to handle laying out a schedule for dealing with government funding, which will be a central issue for him to handle as he comes into the speakership, assuming he has the votes today.

There is a mid-November deadline to avoid a government shutdown. Left unanswered, though, is how he will deal with some key questions, such as aid to Israel, aid to Ukraine, things the White House is demanding will be -- should be lumped together and passed as one, something that could run into opposition in the Republican-controlled House.

But, at the moment, the immediate question, will Mike Johnson get the votes to be elected speaker, the expectation is yes, unless things go south unexpectedly on the House floor here in about an hour's time here, Kate.

BOLDUAN: One quick follow here, Manu. The rule that was in place that made it so possible for Kevin McCarthy to get ousted, have they changed that rule at all leading into this vote?

RAJU: They have not. In fact, that is going to be a threat over any speaker, whether it's Mike Johnson or anyone else. One individual member could call for a vote seeking his ouster. Now, the thing that's a bit different here, though, Kate is that he is

more aligned with those members who pushed out Kevin McCarthy, given his politics and his ideology. So, perhaps, unless he strays significantly from them, he should be in line with them and won't be as big of a risk as McCarthy faced, in talking to some of those members who are part of that Freedom Caucus.

They told me yesterday and then this morning that they want to give him some leeway to the govern, to negotiate with Democrats. So we will see if they decide to do that or if they get -- or, indeed, Johnson runs into the same issues that befell Kevin McCarthy.

BOLDUAN: Manu, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

BERMAN: It's such a good question.

All right with us now, CNN political commentator, senior political commentator, and former special assistant to President George W. Bush Scott Jennings, and CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Alice Stewart.

So, Scott, what lessons have been learned in all this? Republicans fully now have their act together, no chaos evermore?

(LAUGHTER)

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, that's the hope, because we don't have time for chaos. We got to get the government funded.

And, really, I think Republican voters and donors and supporters and conservatives need the House majority to be functioning, because the speaker of the House is the Republican member at the table here of negotiating with Democrats, Democrats are in control the Senate. There's a Democrat in the White House.

If you don't have a Republican speaker or a functioning majority, the Republican priorities are really left behind.

And so Mike Johnson, I think he's going to be a governing conservative. I really do. I think he's very conservative. I think he's very values-oriented. But, at the same time, he's been someone who has said over and over again that he believes dialogue with Democrats is good, institutions must be strengthened, civil discourse must take place.

So I'm hopeful and optimistic that he can do what others can't, and that's use this job to be a legislative mechanic, and not use this job to simply be a TV pundit or whatever some of the other folks were hoping to be.

BERMAN: Not that there's anything wrong with TV pundits, Scott Jennings and Alice Stewart.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Because a lot of them can be super and really nice. But that's an aside.

Go ahead.

BOLDUAN: Super awesome.

But, Alice, you heard what Manu said, that there's a sense that among -- amongst the Republican Conference that they want to give Mike Johnson leeway to govern, which to me sounds like no lesson has been learned, because that's exactly what got Kevin McCarthy ousted, is because he tried to use some leeway because he needed to govern.

Is it just that exhaustion won the day?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's exactly it, Kate.

Look, I have gotten two texts in the last five minutes from key GOP members of the House. And they say the GOP is tired of fighting. They say they feel like a boxer late in the round where the arms are just tired, and they are ready to move forward.

And they are optimistic that Johnson will get the necessary votes this afternoon and they will be able to get back to what they were putting there to do, which is govern and legislate and get things done and work, not just across the aisle with Democrats, but, heck, work with Republicans, because that doesn't seem to be happening.

And if we haven't learned anything else in the last 22 days or so, it is that what we're seeing in terms of the race for the speaker and who this person will be, you don't have to be the one that has the most experience. You have to be the least hated. You don't have to be the best man standing. You have to be the last man standing.

But we're also learning that one of the key ingredients in the secret sauce for speaker is a heavy dose of MAGA. And that's exactly what Johnson has. He is a Trump ally. He supported the efforts to overturn the election results, which was ludicrous, in and of itself.

[11:10:04]

But he has that factor going for him, because Trump has been working behind the scenes to derail people that weren't supportive of him and really uplift people who have been supportive. So, he has that going for him, but also the fact Johnson himself doesn't have a big legislative record.

He has been really someone who has been behind the scenes, for the most part. But the key to him is, people don't know a lot about him because he hasn't done a lot. And, therefore, he hasn't created a lot of enemies. And what we're seeing is, that is going to be to his benefit as they make those votes today.

BERMAN: Hey, Scott, what about Alice's point there on Donald Trump? Because Donald Trump kind of spiked Tom Emmer yesterday, one of the factors that spiked Tom Emmer, Emmer, who voted to certify the election.

It seems as if the House Republicans are saying, we can't have someone who said the election was legitimate as House speaker.

JENNINGS: Well, I don't think that was the only thing going into this.

Certainly, Trump's spiking of Emmer was not unexpected. It had been telegraphed for several days. I guess they had never really had a super close relationship. The true -- the same cannot be said about Johnson, though. He's been a very vocal supporter of Trump. He was part of Trump's first impeachment team.

So when he was defending against impeachment, Johnson was, I think, one of the most vociferous people on TV defending him, and then Trump saw it and put them on the team. So, obviously, they have a little bit of a relationship going back. But the reality is, that's where most of the House Republicans are, not all of them, but most of them.

And it's also where most of the Republican grassroots are. So even if they don't know much about him today, getting Trump's seal of approval is going to go a long way to making them believe that this is the right answer.

And regarding leash, I think they're going to give him some leash. I think I think they're going to give him some latitude to operate here. And I think people like Jim Jordan and others are hopefully going to give him the cover that he needs to make a deal, fund the government and move past this hump that we haven't been able to get over yet.

BOLDUAN: It sounds like maybe -- maybe funding the government will be able to get through. I'm not really confident of that.

I'm really curious, because the Senate wants to link aid for Israel and Ukraine to get this through, along with the other things that have been proposed. And we have heard very clearly that is -- there are so many Republicans that have no appetite for that.

BERMAN: Including Mike Johnson.

BOLDUAN: And what he's going to do there is going to be fascinating.

BERMAN: Scott Jennings, Alice Stewart, great to see both of you. Appreciate it.

JENNINGS: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us: Overnight, deadly strikes in Gaza continued, and now sources are saying, telling CNN that American military advisers are urging Israel to avoid a full-scale ground assault in Gaza, is to essentially learn from the mistakes that the United States made, like in the war in Iraq. A live report ahead.

Plus, United Nations agency is warning that, if it does not get fuel in Gaza soon, its relief efforts could start shutting down by the end of today.

There are also new reports that former President Trump's former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, that he's been granted immunity for testimony against Donald Trump in the federal election subversion case and what Trump is now saying about this.

We will be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:17:37]

BOLDUAN: We're going to show you right now this is some new drone footage that has come in of the aftermath of an Israeli airstrike in Khan Yunis in Southern Gaza, the strike happening overnight.

People also seen sifting through the rubble after those strikes. This is in the southern part of Gaza, where more than a million people have been told to flee as they were going to be focusing efforts in the northern part of Gaza.

The U.N. relief agency working in Gaza says that it is continuing to try to help people there, but also says its efforts will be forced to come to a stop tonight if no fuel is allowed into Gaza through the Rafah Crossing, no additional fuel, which they say has become a dire situation.

All of this is also coming as there's new reporting the United States is advising Israel to put a pause on the expected ground invasion there.

CNN's Nic Robertson is live in Sderot, Israel, just outside of Gaza.

Nic, any sort of ground incursion does seem to be on hold as diplomacy plays out. So what are you seeing and hearing?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, we're still hearing shelling, shells going into Gaza. We have watched some of the artillery, firing them. We have seen and heard missiles impacting on Gaza, seen the huge plumes of smoke from just outside, but also seen IDF forces in armored personnel vehicles heading towards -- closer towards the border fence with Gaza, not an incursion, per se.

So I think all the military activity that we have seen going on to strike Hamas targets inside of Gaza and the civilian casualties that are -- often accompany those strikes, we're seeing all of that. So, the tempo of putting pressure on Hamas is there and remains in place.

A ground incursion, as you say, doesn't feel imminent. And you can get that from some of the relaxed checkpoints that we have been -- that we have been seeing close to Gaza today. But by means of artillery strikes and missile strikes, this is still pressure on Hamas, as these negotiations continue, because they're all pressure points.

The lack of fuel is a pressure point on Hamas. Hamas wants a humanitarian pause, wants the humanitarian aid. These are all pressure points. But the military is and the actions of the IDF, yes, still in place, still pressuring Hamas. But I would not expect tonight to see a ground incursion.

[11:20:13] BOLDUAN: Let's continue to watch it.

Nic right on the front lines for us, thank you so much -- John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now, CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier.

Kim, I want to start outside of Israel, if I can, with a meeting that took place in Beirut over the last 24 hours. It involved Hassan Nasrallah, who is the leader of Hezbollah, the Shia militant group that operates in Lebanon, and then political leaders from Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

This was a meeting that was covered. They publicized the picture there. They wanted the world to see. So what message do they want out there, Kim?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: They're sending a message of a united front, that, if Israel invades on the ground into Gaza, that Israel could face military action from Hezbollah in the north.

At the same time, current and former Israeli officials I have spoken to believe that Hezbollah is trying to look like it's supportive of what's going on in Gaza without triggering a full-scale Israeli invasion. They don't want to have to go that far. They are aware of the fact that there is U.S. firepower now in the region that could help knock out some of their missiles if they start raining missiles down onto Israel from the north.

BERMAN: So, talk to me more about that, because we obviously have seen -- we have seen explosions around the Lebanese-Israel border, which is right there. And we have seen firing back and forth, tanks and whatnot.

But you just said Hezbollah, what you are hearing, might be willing to only go so far. Why? What doesn't Hezbollah want?

DOZIER: Well, they have got something like 150,000 missiles, some of them very sophisticated. But once they start firing, it almost certainly triggers an Israeli ground invasion.

And because they waited, that they didn't do it right around October 7, when the horrific Hamas terrorist attack was launched on Israel, Israel's now had time to prepare at that border. They have moved a number of troops there. They have moved a number of civilians out. Israel has also been doing things like hitting airstrips in Syria to keep Iran from bringing in more sophisticated weaponry to arm all the militants along the border.

So Hezbollah can see this from the north. The harassing attacks that they have been doing thus far, what that does is pin IDF forces, Israeli Defense Forces, in the north, so they can't go south and be part of the Gaza invasion.

But it's really questionable. If Hezbollah goes further, they know that Israel will invade and also possibly launch missiles, missile strikes on Iran, and no one wants to see that.

BERMAN: Just finally, there is this issue of fuel shipments inside Gaza. The Israeli military says, if they were to allow fuel in over the Rafah Crossing right down here, then that fuel ultimately would be taken by Hamas.

From a military standpoint, what are Israel's fears with that fuel?

DOZIER: Well, according to Israeli officials, they believe Hamas has already stockpiled a lot of fuel in order to keep the war machine going, in order to keep electricity running at that network of some 300 miles of tunnels that Hamas claimed to have underneath Gaza.

They're afraid that any additional fuel would be funneled into that war machine. And, also, they keep saying it is Hamas' responsibility to take care of its own people, that they should use some of that stockpiled fuel to turn back on the water desalination plants, et cetera.

And, of course, if you're a military planter, that means if Hamas uses it for that, they can't use it to prosecute a war on Israel.

BERMAN: The U.N., for its part, says, if that fuel doesn't get in, hospitals would have to close down. So you can see the tension there.

Kim Dozier, thank you so much for being with us today -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, I'm going to speak with one man whose Palestinian-American mother is trapped in Gaza right now and desperately trying to leave. We will speak to him about those efforts.

Plus, another legal blow for former President Trump. A new report says his ex-Chief of Staff Mark Meadows is spilling details in multiple interviews with federal prosecutors as part of a new immunity deal.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:29:10]

BOLDUAN: Israel is continuing its airstrikes on Gaza to hit Hamas targets.

Also, as Israel promises to take out Hamas leadership and its command capabilities, hundreds of thousands of people have fled to, been forced to flee to Southern Gaza and the Rafah Border Crossing in an attempt to get to safety and to leave the war zone.

Among them, we now know, is many Americans. U.S. officials say there are as many as 600 Americans trapped there right now and also say the effort to get them out has proven complicated.

Let's -- let me play for you what John Kirby from the White House said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOHN KIRBY, NSC COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: We are actively trying to get Americans out of Gaza.

Ambassador Satterfield was appointed for that purpose. We know there's Americans in there. We know they want to get out. We're working very hard to find safe passage for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And joining me now.