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Israeli Tanks Raid Gaza Ahead Of "Next Stages Of Combat"; Israeli Army: 224 Hostages, Including Americans, Held In Gaza; Sources: Investigators Developing Working Theory On Why Suspect Chose Mass Shooting Locations; Hurricane Otis Kills At Least 27 In Acapulco, Mexico. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 26, 2023 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:30:42]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Israel is bracing for what it calls the next phase of its attack on Hamas. Despite the rising civilian death toll and a rapidly deteriorating humanitarian situation, Israel has vowed to intensify its bombardment of the besiege overnight.

Overnight, Israeli military forces conducted a targeted raid in northern Gaza. This video, published by the Israeli Defense Forces, shows images of tanks, armored vehicles, including a bulldozer, moving on a road near a fence. The tanks fired artillery before leaving the area.

CNN's international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson, joins us from Sderot.

Nic, update us what's happened with this multiprong operation?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, this was an operation in the late hours last night. We could actually see it happening but we didn't know that's what was going on.

Behind me, over this shoulder here, we could see the tank rounds being fired by the tanks in the area where that operation took place.

We've been in that area before on the Israeli side of the Gaza Strip. And we could see the tanks, the armored personnel carriers, the bulldozers there lined up in fields.

Now, we're being told this is large scale, but limited in scope. The scope to target a Hamas cell that was planning an operation against Israel. It's not quite clear what operation they were planning, how it was disrupted.

But what we hearing, last night, during the time when we saw that tank fire, when we were hearing heavy machine gun fire coming from that area, we were also hearing some detonations, not the artillery that we've heard, not the big missiles from the planes that we're used to hearing here.

But something different that sounded like it was penetrating deep in the ground before detonating.

We do understand that Israel has been using recently some new munitions that are intended to go deep, bust concrete, penetrate tunnels and such like that are underneath Gaza.

Now, I think the other piece of the equation that we're learning about this operation last night is it sounds as if it's not standing alone. We're not seeing anything right now, so far tonight. Maybe it's a little early.

But the way that the IDF described it, they described it as part of the ongoing operations, and an indication that there could be follow- on incursions, possibly of a bigger scale.

This, certainly, though, does seem to be the biggest one that we've heard about so far. No information about any casualties on the Israeli side or the number of casualties either on the other side -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: Nic Robertson, thanks so much for the update.

Israel says there's still more than 200 hostages believed to be held in Gaza. Hamas has freed only a handful. But sources tell CNN that talks to secure the release of a large number of them are ongoing.

The negotiations involve not just Israel and Hamas, but the United States, Qatar and Egypt as well.

Joining us to discuss is former hostage negotiator, Gershon Baskin. He's also the Middle East director for the Middle East Communities Organization.

Gershon, thank you so much for being with us.

You've worked directly on freeing hostages held by Hamas. Walk us through what that process is like?

GERSHON BASKIN, FORMER HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Well, I'll remind the audience that we're talking primarily about the Israeli soldier who was abducted in June of 2006.

And it took five years four months to return him through a negotiated agreement with Hamas that involved the release of 1,200 prisons from Israeli prison, including more than 300 Palestinians who had murdered Israelis.

It's a long drawn-out process. I conducted secret back-channel talks one week after the soldier was abducted. It produced a sign-of-life two and a half months after he was abducted.

It took another five years to convince the Israeli government and Hamas to use the secret direct channel that I developed with Dr. Hamed, who, at that time, was a Hamas spokesperson. It was very long, very tedious and very difficult.

[14:35:00] One thing, throughout the process, Hamas pretty much stuck to their demands of what they wanted. And six months after the soldier was abducted, the Egyptians put down a proposal for 1,000 prisoners in exchange for him in a certain way.

That was exactly the deal that was made by the Israelis. The thing is, now, we're not talking about one soldier. We're talking about more than 220 Israelis, most of them civilians, women, children, elderly, sick, wounded.

And we're talking about a reality that this cannot drag on a long time. There's a small window for a negotiated agreement.

The Hamas side wants a ceasefire and, apparently, other things, like fuel to fuel their generators to give them air in the tunnels from which they will attack Israel.

At the same time, there's an enormous amount of bombing going on in Gaza, with more than one million people have lost their homes and will probably reach 9.000 or 10,000 casualties over the next days.

This is a humanitarian catastrophic happening in Gaza. The people in Gaza are paying the price for what Hamas did to Israel.

And a ceasefire is warranted at this time to give a breathing space to bring in humanitarian aid, and for Hamas to return the civilian hostages.

SANCHEZ: Would you say that a larger ground incursion by the IDF would complicate the process of freeing the hostages?

BASKIN: I think it certainly would. Even if Israel has a large amount of intelligence information, that I suspect that they do, the hostages are probably kept in this web of tunnels underneath Gaza, hundreds of kilometers of tunnels.

And it will be very difficult to get to them. They're certainly not all being kept together.

One of the big challenges we have in the negotiations right now, we're not sure that Hamas is in control and holding all of the other hostages. Because other groups in Gaza took hostages as well, Islamic Jihad, the Popular Front, and even individuals are suspected of taking hostages.

So it's not sure, even when the Qatari government is talking to the Hamas leadership in Gaza, that the Hamas leadership in Gaza has control.

Or when the Egyptians are talking to the Hamas leadership in Gaza, are they talking to the military wings that are holding the hostages and maybe controlling all of them.

This is a very complex negotiation. And it's very difficult to know that we're talking to the right people. SANCHEZ: It doesn't seem likely that Israel is going to hold off on

striking Gaza. It doesn't seem likely that, at this point, they're going to give Hamas the fuel that it needs in order to essentially enable it to launch further attacks.

Does it strike you that Israel might have to make a choice between protecting those hostages and its mission of eradicating Hamas?

BASKIN: Yes. It's a very big dilemma. And it's an enormous decision for the government to make.

I want to say one thing that's very important for the American audience to hear in particular, and European audiences,

Qatar is essentially a state that supports terrorism. It has funded Hamas with more than $1 billion. The Hamas political leadership is in Doha living in five-star conditions and red carpets protected by the Qatari government.

It's time to pull out the big sticks, vis-a-vis, the Qatari government. And tell the Qatar government, if they don't pressure Hamas to release the hostages, then Hamas will be told to leave Qatar.

This is what we need to do. This is what the Hamas leadership needs to hear from Qatar.

Qatar spent billions of dollars on the World Cup, Qatar Airlines. Qatar is buying up companies in NASDAQ and Silicon Valley.

Qatar is a state that supports terrorism. And if it doesn't comply with American demands to put pressure, real pressure on Hamas, then Qatar should be labeled as a state that supports terrorism.

And let them see how well their jets can land all over the world and how they can buy up companies on NASDAQ or the SWIFT international banking system.

It's time to put the real pressure on, because time is running out.

SANCHEZ: A really important point I've not heard made before.

Gershon Baskin, I very much appreciate your perspective. Thanks.

BASKIN: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

[14:39:31]

We're still tracking the latest developments here in the United States. A manhunt continuing for the suspected killer of at least 18 people at two locations in Maine. The latest on a desperate search, when we come back.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: All right. Welcome back to CNN's special live coverage from Lewiston, Maine, where 18 people were killed in two separate shootings, one of which happened at Shamain's Bar (ph), which is right behind me.

And we are now getting new information just in about one direction that the investigation is headed in.

So let's get right to CNN's Evan Perez for the very latest on what authorities are looking into concerning 40-year-old Robert Card.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, you know, one of the big questions that happens after these types of events is the question that occurs to investigators is, why did this happen at the location that it did? What brought the gunman to these locations.

[14:45:52]

And one of the theories that is being pursued by investigators is, according to a source that spoke to John Miller, is that the shooter broke up with his girlfriend recently. And, according to the sources that spoke to John Miller, that might be one reason why he went to these locations.

These locations that are associated with where they went as a couple that they frequented as a couple.

And in particular, in the case of the bowling alley, they believe that the girlfriend, the former girlfriend was signed up for a tournament at that bowling alley. So that might explain the reason why he chose this location.

Robert Card is, of course, is a person who is believed to be on the run. Obviously, the investigators are desperately trying to figure out how to find him.

John, as you know, that's a very rugged area. It's very rural and not a lot of people. And there's a lot of places for people to hide.

And so the longest this goes, the greater the area that investigators believe they're going to have to search. And so that's one of the issues that they're confronting at this hour.

They want to try to find this man as soon as possible. They've been talking to everybody from family members, anybody who knows him to get a sense or perhaps any indication in recent days and recent weeks that shows where he might have gone, what he may have been prepared to do.

And so, again, this is early in the investigation. And this is a theory that investigators are pursuing at this this hour.

John Miller's sources are telling him that, again, the idea is that he had a girlfriend who he recently broke up with, and that these locations, the bar, where you're near, and also the bowling alley down the street are two places where they frequented when they were together -- John?

BERMAN: I was just told by someone who works near Shamain's Bar (ph), behind me, is somewhere that has regulars, that people from the nearby businesses around here will go there after work. So the people who go there know each other.

Interesting how this working theory is one avenue for investigation.

Evan, behind us also outside of our -- a short time ago, we also saw federal law enforcement. We saw people in FBI vests. What's the federal role here?

PEREZ: Well, one of the big parts of this now, John, is, again, time is of the essence. Because you have a suspect who has 20 years of military training. He knows how to survive outdoors.

Maine is a very - a state where a lot of people go out hunting. They sometimes go out and looking and hunting for deer and so on.

And so the concern that investigators have is that they need to find him soon in the fear that he might have other things planned. They cannot be sure that there might not be additional shootings.

So that's one reason why you see dozens of FBI there. They're helping to process the scene, collecting some of the evidence.

The ATF is there. They're going to be doing the investigation (ph) to see if one gun was used or multiple firearms were used, when he acquired them, how long he has been planning this. Those are questions, of course, that are part of this investigation.

The U.S. Marshals are there. They're very good at tracking down fugitives.

All of these resources, including aircraft and investigators who are specialized on tracking cell phones, all of that is being brought to bear to help the state investigators, to help the local investigators in doing this work and try to find this suspect as soon as -- as quickly as possible -- John?

BERMAN: You know, Maine is so well known for its water, for its woods, for its mountains. So many open spaces to go. You can understand why officials want to bring this manhunt to a conclusion as quickly as possible.

Again, Evan Perez, thank you.

The breaking news, one direction this investigation is currently looking at, a theory that maybe Robert Card, the suspected killer, had regularly spent time at the two locations where the shootings took place, including this bar right behind me.

[14:48:48]

This is CNN's special breaking news coverage. We'll have much just after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:53:26]

SANCHEZ: At least 27 people are dead in Acapulco and four others are missing after Hurricane Otis picked up force extremely quickly slamming Mexico's Pacific coast.

In just 12 hours, 12 hours, it went from a tropical storm to an extremely dangerous category 5 hurricane. One of the most powerful ever known to hit that area.

CNN's Gustavo Valdes is in Acapulco for a firsthand look at the devastation.

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GUSTAVO VALDES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Getting to Acapulco is not easy because the highways are blocked by trees, debris, landslides.

But once you get into the tourist area of Acapulco, you see images like that one behind me. Those two buildings that tell the story of what a category 5 hurricane can do. That building is completely destroyed, save for the cinder block columns.

And we were trying to debate, prior to recording this, whether this was a building in construction, or somebody was living there. There's no sign on some of those floors that anybody lived there.

But as you see, about the third floor up, there's some furniture there that tells that somebody was actually living there. And as you can see, everything got wiped out.

That building gave the one behind a little bit of protection. But that is something that we're seeing. And this is just one corner.

Because it's very hard to navigate this area. People are trying to evacuate. People are trying to find shelter.

[14:54:57]

If the hotels are damaged, they're telling us, the residential areas, especially in the rural parts of the state, or the city -- there's some areas not far from here that are completely disconnected because of the debris on the roads or because they have no communication there.

They're also complaining there's no money from the ATMs and the stores are being looted. We got that report from some Army members earlier today that told us.

But let me give you another example of the resort here. This is one of the areas. This is the newer, more expensive part of Acapulco.

You can see at a distance, we're counting, one, two, three, maybe four buildings that is completely damaged. These are hotel rooms that are literally facing the ocean, the brunt of the storm.

Over there, we can see another building completely destroyed, to the right. All of the siding is gone.

We have seen countless people dragging their luggage, trying to find a place that allows them to get back into an area where they can get food, water or just try to get back to their cities.

Many of them are tourists whose vacation were completely, obviously, destroyed.

We found a bus, 51 people who told me that they were on their way to their hotel when the Hurricane Otis hit. They couldn't make it to the hotel. They had to park the bus under a bridge.

And they spent the whole time there, waiting for Otis to go by. They stayed there for over 24 hours. And now, they are on their way with a big story to tell.

Gustavo Valdes, CNN, Acapulco.

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SANCHEZ: Gustavo, thank you so much.

We're continuing to follow the manhunt for the mass shooting suspect in Maine. We'll take you live to the scene when we come back. Stay with CNN.

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