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Ongoing Manhunt for Maine Shooting Suspect; Shelter-In-Place Directives "Have Not Changed In Any Way," According to Official; Divers Will Search Waters Near Dock Where Suspect's Car Was Found, According to Officials. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired October 27, 2023 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

MIKE SAUSCHUCK, COMMISSIONER, MAINE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: So, all of those things are occurring at the same time. I would also state, and I want to make sure that I say this because they've been very, very helpful, the Brookfield Power Company owns two dams, operates two dams in this area and they've been very cooperative, you know, they live it every day. So, as an example, one of the things that we're doing -- the river currently runs at like 8,500 cubic square feet per second.

And when they tighten the dam tools down, they actually lower that down to like 5,500 cubic feet, right. Does that mean anything to you? What it means to us is that, that current, if we can slow that current down, we can lower the amount of water in the river, it's certainly easier for us to work. It's easier for our divers to see in clearer water than muddier water. If it's a foot lower than it was before, it's easier for us to work. And there's different searches, obviously, but unfortunately people lose their lives and bodies of the water on a regular basis. So, this is something, that we're trying to dial in

But yes, sir, right here. You. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deer hunting starts tomorrow.

SAUSCHUCK: It sure does, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you address that?

SAUSCHUCK: Yes, sure. So, I've had conversations with Commissioner Canuso, Inland Fire -- Inland Fisheries and Wildlife. Judy's great. We are having those conversations. I would expect to hear more about that later in the day. It's a big deal in Maine. It may not big deal for a lot of people from other communities, but we know what that's going to look like.

We also know we're in the woods, you know, if you're -- just happen to be in the woods, minding your own business, going for a walk, that's going to make us a little concerned, right? So, it's definitely a good question. It's something that we're actively working on.

Right here, sir. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You talk about this tremendous amount of assets here and the search for him. Can you talk about the pressure you guys are feeling to find him that will give this community some sense of answer as the same person (INAUDIBLE)?

SAUSCHUCK: Yes, sure. I think -- you know, pressure is one way to put it. I mean, we're concerned about the victims, their families and our communities. I'm concerned every day, 24/7, 365 at this point for 30 years. That's why I got into this business. We do want to help people. We do want to make them safe. Making them safe and making them feel safe may not necessarily be the same thing either, right? Because I think our law enforcement partners, our first responders around the state. Everybody is dialed in. They do that all day, every day.

This is clearly a completely different animal. So, for us, we want to make sure that we bring this individual to custody, but we got to do it right. We got to do it the safe way. We don't want to see anybody else get hurt. Certainly, our people and our community members. So, we want to make sure that we do that right. We're not going to be rushed, but we're running right on that level that we're going to work as hard as we can, as fast as we can, with as many resources as we can to try to bring some kind of closure.

(CROSSTALK)

SAUSCHUCK: Right here, ma'am. Right here, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We understand that the family is being --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We understand that the family is being cooperative, what are they telling you?

SAUSCHUCK: I think that we can -- whether you see the 530 tips and leads overall, I think we're seeing a lot of cooperation across the board. I'm not going to speak to anybody in particular, but I think there's a lot of cooperation. There's a lot of compassion here. There's empathy that people understand what happened here, not only to the victims, but again to the state and to our country. So, people are coming forward. They are participating in the process and that's just the nature of the beast. But I'm not sure I answered it. So, go ahead and follow up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I'm so sorry.

SAUSCHUCK: That's OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Specifically, the family of the suspect, we understand they are cooperating. What are they telling you and how are they helping you in the investigation?

SAUSCHUCK: Yes. So, I won't speak -- again, specifically to what anybody said one way or the other, but we do appreciate everybody's cooperation because we know that this is difficult for everybody. No matter how you're -- you could be the neighbor of somebody. This is tough for people to digest and understand and to try to work through. So that's a good --

(CROSSTALK)

SAUSCHUCK: Right here, sir. Right here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much, sir.

SAUSCHUCK: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Simply warning. Forget about information. Families told multiple news outlets that there were warnings provided to law enforcement. Which agencies received those warnings, and did you think at any point that it might warrant a yellow flag pursuit?

SAUSCHUCK: Well, I'm heavily involved in the yellow flag conversation overall. But the reality for today is I'm not going to talk specifically about who knew what and when. We're still actively involved in a very dynamic situation here. And we're focused on an individual that currently has eight warrants out for murder. We're trying to figure that part out, trying to bring him into justice, as well as investigate this crime. There will be a time when we --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you confirm the warning, though? Can you confirm warnings were issued --

SAUSCHUCK: I cannot. I cannot confirm that one.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, yesterday, sir -- sir, yesterday -- yesterday.

SAUSCHUCK: Sir, right here. You.

PROKUPECZ: Yesterday, the Senator -- Senator Collins said that the yellow flag law should have been enforced in this situation. So, as you stand here today, what is your response to that? And also, as you stand here today, was law enforcement notified of the threats that he was making of his condition? Were they aware of it and what steps were taken to investigate that?

SAUSCHUCK: Yes, I appreciate the question. And Senator Collins is great. We have a great federal delegation that works incredibly hard on behalf of the state of Maine.

[10:35:00]

I don't know exactly what the good senator said. I respect her a great deal. So, I won't answer or answer to, any comments that she made. If that's her perspective, based on what she knows through the general public or otherwise, then that's fine. She certainly has the right to do that.

But based on what I've seen, we're going to continue to work through that. We asked good questions. It may even have been you, sir, around the firearm itself.

PROKUPECZ: Yes. SAUSCHUCK: And it is going to be an opportunity -- the ATF is here. The ATF is working with us. They have been there since the first second. There's going to be an opportunity to answer all those questions and figure out. So, was that a violation or not? It's also an opportunity from an educational standpoint to talk about what that really means, what that really looks like, and what the options, in fact, are.

PROKUPECZ: Right. I mean, the thing is that folks want to know, were there any missed --

SAUSCHUCK: I'm going to go over here, though, sir. So, I appreciate the follow up and the initial question. You.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the timeline yesterday? 9-1-1 calls. You know, the time -- precise times the police arrived on the scene.

SAUSCHUCK: Arrived, no. So, we -- it was 6:56 for the initial call, and then 7:08 for the second call. Multiple calls for each location. And so -- that's what I had. I don't know exactly when they arrived, other than to say these calls in any scenario are a priority to say the least. So, everybody is going and they're going as fast as humanly possible. So, that's the --

(CROSSTALK)

SAUSCHUCK: I'm not done in the -- I'm not done answering the first question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Identified 16 bodies, sir?

SAUSCHUCK: So, was that enough, sir? Does that make sense on that? I will take a look at the arrival time so that we have that information and we may be able to provide that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we can get a further timeline --

SAUSCHUCK: And I -- I would say this, OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- that would be very helpful.

SAUSCHUCK: The way this is going to work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That would be helpful.

SAUSCHUCK: Just so we're all clear, the way this is going to work, is if we have a Q& A and you ask me questions and I attempt to answer them, as soon as we start yelling over each other, I'm done, just so we're clear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's fine.

SAUSCHUCK: And we don't want to do that. We're trying to be as cooperative as we can across the board. But we'll be back another time, and we're just trying to figure that out.

Yes, sir, right here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're coming up on 48 hours. Are you concerned the trail is becoming cold?

SAUSCHUCK: I think that every minute that this goes on, we're more and more concerned, you know, because the -- what's the next thing that's going to happen? And we understand that. And that's why we're working 24/7 to bring this individual to justice and to try to bring some closure and overall safety to our communities. So, yes, we feel that just as much as the community member does or any of us. This is a privilege. This is an honor we have to do something about these tragedies when they occur.

In many instances, I've been in those scenarios. This happens out of state. You're sitting on your couch wishing you could do something to help. But we're in a position to do something to help, and we will. There's no question in my mind that we will bring this individual into custody one way or the other.

I'm going to take one more question from you, sir, and then we're going to be done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: thank you, sir. Can you confirm that you've identified 16 out of the 18 bodies? And if so, can you confirm the demographics, please?

SAUSCHUCK: Yes, and I think that, that may be a question -- the specifics may be a question for a future briefing. We have identified and notified the families of eight of the 18 fatalities that were involved in this incident. We mentioned those eight murder warrants, and the reason why we have 18 victims, we only have eight of those warrants. That's because eight of those people have been identified, and eight of those people -- the families have been notified, which is certainly key for us to make sure we get that right.

But further demographics around that, the colonel gave gender yesterday, and we'll take a look at ages and some other information. I'd like to be able --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) numbers inaccurate?

SAUSCHUCK: So, I'd like to be able to honor the group of victims by talking about them in a specific session that I would be viewed coming shortly. Eight of the 18 have been identified and notified. Not 16 and I don't know where that came from. So, thank you very much. I do appreciate it. We will see you again along the way. Thank you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: All right. You've been watching a news conference that lasted about 35 minutes here in Lewiston, Maine, largely directed by public safety officials, the local police chief, as well as Maine's director of public safety. It's an unusual press conference that really went into more about what they will be doing than what has already happened.

But there were some hard facts there. Let me just go through that very quickly. Number one, there is still a very active manhunt for Robert Card, the 40-year-old suspect who is believed to have killed 18 people in this town. There is still a shelter-in-place order for the community that spans about 700 square miles, tens of thousands of people, but mostly Lewiston, which is where I'm standing, where the killings took place. Bowdoin, the last known address of the suspected killer, Robert Card, and Lisbon which is the location where his car was found by a boat launch, more on that in just a second.

We also learned they've been processing more than 530 tips, leads they've been given, going through them one by one. With me now, Juliette Kayyem, Jonathan Wackrow, Omar Jimenez is with us as well, John Miller in Cape Baldwin in New York.

[10:40:00]

And John Miller, I want to start with you on the issue of the boat launch. Because of all the information we were given, that was kind of the most concrete in terms of what they will be doing today. They're putting divers in the Androscoggin River. They're using sonar inside that river. They're going to walk the line by that river. The power company, which has dams on that river, has even reduced the water pressure to make it easier for them to look there. What do you glean from all of that?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, I think what we're at is we're coming up on the 48-hour mark. They don't have their suspect in custody. And frankly, no one knows if he is alive and has fled, or put distance between him and the scene, or whether he is dead. I say that because one of the things recovered yesterday was a note. Investigators I spoke to characterized it as a suicide note, meaning it was written with a mindset that whoever was reading it would be reading it after Robert Card was no longer around.

So, we're in a process of elimination, which is they've probably completed their search of the woods immediately by that boat launch, but then that leaves them with the water. Now, there's two possibilities. One is that he's in that water, that he drowned himself, and went forward with what might be a suicide after his homicides. Or the other is, here's an individual who at one time had a small boat registered to him, currently has a jet ski registered to him, that he could have used that lake area that feeds into a river, and made a left out to the ocean, or a right inland where he could have found a landing place, a switch car.

But these are all the unknowns that as we come up on that 48-hour mark they've got to start to walkthrough and try and eliminate. And eliminating that body of water is something that's going to take a while and a lot of effort but it's an important step.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: And, Juliette, I want to get your take on what you heard in this press conference because it seemed like they were setting it up for the public to understand that this is not going to be over anytime soon. What did you make of this press conference?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST AND FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DHS: Yes. So, I'm pretty sympathetic to public safety in the midst of a crisis, but we are 48 hours out. And honestly, it was a little bit of filibustering. The community is traumatized. It has a right to know the details of what has happened in the past. In fact, I -- the future part of that press conference was really odd to tell us what they're about to do. I don't need to know that. I need to know what you've done and I need to know how -- if I'm in that community, how this is going to look today, tomorrow and the weeks to come.

We need to get it -- they need to get into a battle rhythm, and that includes what are the standards to end the shelter-in-place. The police briefer said there's a continuing conversation. With whom? I mean, what are the standards? The community is now inside? And so, I am maybe at the, sort of, lose patient stage of this. I want to be clear here.

The focus on finding him is clearly one that I respect and applaud. I am not undermining it. But there is a second part to public safety, and that is public trust. And I fear that they are losing it not because they haven't found him. People understand that. People -- it's the woods. They understand that. It's that there's just no details about how life is going to begin again. And the nurturing and the community and the comp, you know, and the morning will become part of how this community moves forward. So, the -- it was -- odd is the right way to put it. It was an odd press conference.

BERMAN: And they were very much telling us, Juliette, what we will be seeing, which might be a reaction to what we saw last night when SWAT teams were at one of the known residences. And it looked like they might be closing in on a suspect, but it turned out to be sort of standard operating procedure when you're trying to go through residences, go through buildings. And today, they're telling us they're going to go into the river. They may be searching other areas.

And Jonathan Wackrow, they did say they will reassess on a daily basis, the shelter-in-place orders But I am wondering just what it felt like to you in terms of the level of urgency there? Yes, clearly there are still shelter-in-place orders. Yes, he said that every minute that goes by, they're more and more concerned because this killer might still be on the loose. However there didn't feel, Jonathan, to be this extreme sense of pending doom from his voice there.

[10:45:00]

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST AND FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT FOR PRES. OBAMA: Yes. John, your point is you picked up exactly what I wanted to start off with, which is, you know, the commissioner said that every moment that goes by, they get more concerned. Well guess what? That's the opposite of reassuring the public.

And I want to go back to what Commissioner Miller had said. You know, enough time has gone by now that law enforcement and the, you know, incident command structure, they need to recalibrate into this next phase. You know, the initial response period is over and they need to now start focusing on two elements. One, the tactical, which is the searching. And two, is the investigative part that's going to help bolster the tactical side but it's also going to, you know, lead into, you know, ultimately finding this individual.

The reality is, though, at the end of the day, the suspect here has the first mover advantage, right? From the moment, almost 40 hours ago that this attack was launched, he has had the advantage. Law enforcement has to reassure the public that they are taking that advantage away by utilizing all of their -- all of their resources in a structured manner.

What I did not hear today was exactly how they are organized. There are a lot of law enforcement entities at the federal, state, and local level that are putting resources towards this investigation and searching for this suspect. What we didn't hear is how the interplay of all of those resources are coming together to bring a quick resolution, right?

And I think Juliette's point was -- is really great in terms of we heard like what they're potentially going to do. That we've heard a lot of fidelity about radar and sonar that's going to be utilized. That's great but it's not really reassuring of what the future is going to hold in, you know, the next 24, 48, you know, days to come that follows. So, it was a little bit of an odd press conference. However, I do appreciate the fact that they're trying to give more. information. But again, I'm left with more questions than we have answers right now.

BOLDUAN: And Shimon Prokupecz is joining us now. Shimon, you were in the press conference. We saw you there. We're listening to you ask questions. One thing that was raised is asking for a more clear timeline. What's not been included in the timeline put out publicly so far is the response time of police. Why is that important and what do you see in this?

PROKUPECZ: Well, because there's this gap, right, between the first time -- several things. But one of the things is that there's a time gap of about 12 minutes or so from when the officers go to the first location at the bowling alley to the second location of the bar.

So, you have -- there's this time period that it takes about 10 minutes to go from one location to the other. You know, the other thing with the timeline is when did officers first get to the bowling alley? And we also want to know what were they doing when they got there? Was there any, at all, contact along the way with the suspect? I would assume no.

But you know, these are details that we have been asking for since yesterday. You know, they had their press conference yesterday, and they basically answered five questions. I think they're starting to feel the pressure from the public and from us here. I mean, this was a packed house of media asking very good questions. And you could see that when we want the nitty gritty, when we want specifics, it just seems that they want to back away from that and not get into the specifics for whatever reason, right?

The line they always use is, well, we need to protect the investigation. OK. Great. But there are things that they can talk about. Certainly, the timeline and other information about what was going on at the scene that can, kind of, help paint a picture of what was going on.

The other thing that I think is very significant here, and again, this is not something that they are willing to talk about just yet, is the notion and the fact that we know that the suspect was having these issues, these mental health issues. He was making threats. It seems that the family members were aware of it. Who else was aware of it and what steps were taken to enforce those, to investigate those threats? Was law enforcement aware of this? How much of it were they aware? Were they aware that he had access to weapons? And these are all the -- all questions that need to be answered at some point.

The officials here say, we're going to get there at some point. We're going to answer those questions. You know, they're focused right now is on the manhunt. But also, there are a lot of questions about the manhunt because they haven't really been briefing us, right? They haven't been coming out and telling us what they're doing on a daily basis with searches.

I have been in Lisbon, where this is now all centered. Every day, right, yesterday and today, we were there this morning, and I can tell you there was absolutely no police presence there this morning.

[10:50:00]

So, something has changed. They are now going back. They're going to send divers in. They're going to search more along the waterline there. We don't know why they waited till today. We couldn't ask that question. Why didn't they start doing this search yesterday? What happened that today they decided, who decided all of a sudden, we should go in the water and start looking for him? Is it this note that they found that, sort of, said, oh, well, maybe he took his own life and he did so by going in the water. Clearly, that is something they think.

A lot of questions and hopefully they will do these briefings as they said every day. I think they are feeling that they need to answer more questions, and hopefully they will do that. But, you know, the bottom line is you have a community in Lisbon that is afraid, that is concerned. Most of the people living there are not leaving their homes. There are children in these homes. There are homes that would be very easily accessed by someone if they want -- really wanted to go inside and do harm. And I think people there are very afraid.

I will say to you, I was in Lisbon this morning, as I said. And we spoke to the police chief there this morning, and he said that they were out all-night doing searches. They were getting tips, 9-1-1 calls from people in the area concerned about their safety, and so they're continuing to do that. Obviously, everything changes today with these new searches. And we should see later today officers in the water, divers, and other steps that they're going to be taking, in Lisbon to try and find this guy.

BERMAN: Yes, a couple of things, concrete things we did learn, though, which is there's a very serious investigative strain now. One of the paths they're going down is to try to figure out whether this guy might be dead, I mean, that is one of the reasons they are putting divers into the water there. That's one of the reasons they will be combing the banks of the Androscoggin River to see if they can find his body. That's a very clear part of this search now.

We also know -- and I've seen right behind me, there's a huge deal of crime scene processing going on right now at both the bar where I am. We've seen ATF and FBI agents descending on this location over the last several hours. You can see some walking right behind me. And I know where Omar is, which is the bowling alley, he's seen much of the same thing.

So, they're going through, we were told, every shell casing, every bullet hole, every car in the parking lot. That though, as everyone's been saying here is more backwards looking than forward looking in terms of how can we catch this guy or find him dead?

I want to bring in Tom Foreman if I can right now to get a visual representation of the area that we're talking about here and where these searches are taking place. Tom, what can you tell us?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. All right. Yes, forward looking there is nothing more important than figuring out where this person is. We've talked about 700 square miles, that sounds like a tremendous amount, and it is, except look at this map. This is more than 700 square miles. If you take an area from here to roughly over here, Bowdoin's over here, if you do that, you get about 75 square miles in that area. The boat launch they're talking about down here, no question, from what he said, part of the focus is on whether or not this man is somehow, his body is somehow in here if he committed suicide here, or if there's other evidence to find.

But beyond that, if you look at the options he had yesterday, this is the forward-thinking part. If he abandoned this car here, where did he go? Is he holed up in housing here? Does that lead to a door-to-door search to say let's clear every house in the area to see if he's there? Is -- did he somehow get to the Maine Turnpike and take off, in which case he could be a thousand miles away, if he could navigate it, or is he in the woods?

And John, I really want to point out this thing about searching the woods. You don't just go out and search everything in the grid like this box, this box, this box. You prioritize those places that are the most promising. Moving through the woods like this, even for somebody who is known as an experienced outdoorsman, this is not necessarily an easy thing to do.

Remember, James Earl Ray escaped after killing Martin Luther King Jr. He was gone for almost 50 hours. He only made it about six miles. It is difficult to move through here. Difficult to move without being spotted. And to do this, remember, if he wants to go through any of these areas, he is going to have to have somewhere between a half gallon and two gallons of water a day. It's going to weigh about eight pounds. He has to haul around with them. He has to be able to replenish it. He has to have food.

And the temperature there, Sunday is dropping into the 40s. Monday it'll be even colder, and it's going to be raining. All of that will agitate against him being able to hide in the woods, and maybe that will help them as they try to search him down.

[10:55:00]

So, looking forward, number one job finding him. It does seem clear that, at least for now, they still believe that if he's alive, he's somewhere in this area. And if he is not alive, he's somewhere in this area too. John.

BERMAN: Yes. And, Tom, you brought up a very good point on the weather. It's been unseasonably warm here the last few days in Maine. The black flies, which are known to be in Maine, they are still here. It's so warm. But that's going to change in two days where it gets much colder. It will rain. It will be much harder to survive in these areas. Tom Foreman, thank you very much.

We're going to take a quick break in a second. But before we do, I just want to get one last point in with John Miller if I can. Just to be crystal clear on one important point, there has been no known sighting or clue or any trace of Robert Card since the vehicle was found at the boat launch on the Androscoggin River. Sometimes with manhunts in Pennsylvania where we're used to hearing, oh, there was a sighting in this garage, or maybe they got a trace of him here or there. Have you heard anything about any clue from this guy that has developed since the moment that that car was found at the boat launch?

MILLER: No, John. In over 500 tips, there have been noises. There have been sightings of people walking. There have -- but nobody said, I saw that individual and that was him. They don't have that.

BERMAN: And that's important to note this morning. Again, as this manhunt continues, as maybe a search for a body continues, as the crime processing continues at the scenes behind me. We're learning out new bits of information, but there is still so much unknown as a shelter-in-place order is still in effect affecting tens of thousands of people over this wide area in Maine. Our special live coverage continues right after this.

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